MadMac's haze and haze hybrid's grow & show

[gorilla ganja]

i'll have a place @ MaryJane in Berlin with my gear...
waited 20 years for this become real... !

All the best in setting up a business in Legal Germany. You've put in the work over the years and deserve it.

Hopefully, your government doesn't F@$K it up like they did in Canada.

They provide valuable light receptors, and help to moderate extremes within the internal plant itself.
Removing fan leaves does slow growth, but not desirably so, and doesn't target any one source per se.
If you have any evidence to the contrary we are all ears.

What you are stating is erroneous conjecture, pure and simple. You are putting out bad untrue information.
There is no biological or botanical basis for what you are stating.

Well, I can debate with you, but it seems you know it all already. I am an expert at keeping plants small; sometimes, I even do it on purpose.

I'm a man of few words, so maybe pictures and a brief description might help someone.
Believe it or not, to each their own.
There are many ways to control the size and shape of plants and many reasons to remove leaves and branches, as stated above. I'm just going to talk specifically about controlling height and node spacing.


Let's start with a few pics. These mother plants are about two months old and are kept in a small container, which obviously helps keep the plants small as well. But the same technique can be used with any size plant.
These are some genetics I have been playing with.
Malawi/Panama x Durban- hard to see in this pic, but nodes are about 3/4"/ 19mm or less apart.

This is a Gambian hybrid.

Notice on the main stem; the nodes are about an inch/ 25mm apart. On the side branches where I did not remove leaves, the nodes are about 3 inches/75mm apart. I could have removed the secondary leaves to help control the nodes on the branch, but I am taking cuttings right away, so let them grow.

The steps are quite simple, but it is a bit of an art form and takes time to master. Cultivars respond differently depending on genetics and environment. If they are vigorous and respond well, you can be aggressive. If slower growing, just dial back when you take off the leaves. Leave as much of the leaf stem as possible to reduce shock.
It is a continual process, and some leaves are removed every few days just when the branch is beginning to grow and unfurl its own leaves. I usually leave two or three leaves at the top or end of the branch.

Also, it is best to start early to control the plant. If you wait too long, it will quickly gain height and node spacing, and you can't go back and change it after the fact.

There it is, simple and at least for me, works.

Peace GG


One last pic. This is a 9-month-old mother plant. Multiple techniques were used to control height. It was about 9"/ 230mm tall and fully seeded here.

 

[Piff_cat]

Here's an example of aneuploid population in kullu showing effects of extra mir156 with adventious roots. Normally this trait is suppressed early on but an extended juvenile retains. Haze plants often have roots

More BLAH .. BLAH .. BLAH .. None of this relates to Haze WHATSOEVER. Someone on crack, or worse yet.
These are Chinese "studies" typically put out to support current and further grant work funding. Less than credible, lol. YES. Also, note the date of these unpublished "drops" - 2010. Unpublished, intended to confuse, and to amuse.



I'll take this as a genuine question until proven otherwise. This is nothing that I have alluded to or discussed.
I'm going to break this down indoors vs outdoors. In the latter there's much less opportunity to manipulate.

The greatest factor and influence regarding flowering is the photo-period, and light concentration. And, just when is a plant "mature" as you speak of it? Take it all the way back to it's landrace region to find out. No other way I know of to do so. And, if you have HAZE, just what is that landrace region? Good question. Eh?

The more practical issue is what limitations do we have in our indoor grow. What height do we have to deal with, and how can we best control plant growth to ensure they are not too tall to exceed the light source. That is the number one limiter. I believe most people confuse in something like HAZE the number of weeks of flowering vs total growing time. This can also be influenced by taking cuttings vs starting it from seeds.

So, when is a plant mature? If you are dealing with hybrids, which most all of us to some degree are, that is something that you alone can and need to decide. Unless you have the luxury or luck in seed stock to have a known landrace you acquired on site yourself, and recorded the photoperiods and light intensities yourself.

Not sure I answered your question, but again it is not something that I had postulated or discussed. If you have anything else to ask I will be happy to answer it with the real world facts that I have. Not going to delve into the BS world of the make believe, and talk through my arse about something that I know not of.

You realize micro RNA are highly conserved in angiosperms these systems are universal.

 

[MadMac]

hello friends of the light ;-)
well still very busy with real life work and not often @ home...
but things going fine and i'll just startet the last landrace x OHz run...
1. Malawi Gold (TLT)
2. Congo Black (TLT)
3. Drakensberg (TLT)
4. Kullu Valley(Khalifa Genetics)
5. Kerala Idukki (TLT)
6. Dayma (Tashqurghan) (Afghan Selection)
7. Mazar (Khasa Paz) (Afghan Selection)
8. Chimtal (Balkh) (Afghan Selection)
9. Thai Dharavati (Zomia)
10. Thai Squirrel Tail (Zomia)
11. Kumaoni - Malana Creme (RSC)
12. Zamal (French Touch)
13. Manga Rosa (Brasilian Seed Co) "Morango do Nordeste"

Kumaoni, Zamal and Manga Rosa where very old... especially Manga ... but managed to sprout some with the help of seedcracker and living soil..

my working place @ moment

when arriving home...

and here we have the fav OHz reflowering/regrow ... she had no water last week... so looks litte sad... but you get the idea... some branches are dead and brown... but others are still allive and regrow/flower and will never stop... the Zamal had this too ... she is now 6 month in the flower room on 11/13 and still doing fine... it was a experiment .. because i'll noticed that before... well will partially harvest soon and look what happen... maybe put her outdoors and see ... and if still alive take her indoors in winter and so on... really curious now if can keep her alive for some years.. bonsai technic maybe ... i'll love those genetics... they are always special like the high... this OHz lady was flowered from cut and as you can see she could easy fill the room...

dead and alive ... no feeding ... no water ... crazy ... most where already dead!

Manga Rosa (back) and Zamal

and some of the others ... 2 weeks.. was not here ... just filled the base with enough water... some have very strong grow ... landrace have this special stuff... you only need to find it ;-) ...

they all gonna hazed' ...
happy growin'
M.

P.S.
when i'll get my permission to breed and sell and i'll can open the shop... than i'll will become a boutique breeder here @ IC and i'll can promote and talk about it ... and what genetics etc... it's all on the way but i'll need it official... i'll don't like half baked ;-) many thx @ all for support

 

[Kimes]

heres some stuff for ya. this something im currently exploring. the main idea is that the overexpression of micro rna 156 or mir156 has effects on early trichome, anthocyian, branching/leaf growth, changes to the abaxial/adaxial trichome distribution(top and bottom of sugar leaves).
the over expression is caused by aneuploidy/polyploidy OR are result of selection for later flowering plants.

mir 156 works in tandem with mir172. mir156 levels are highest at germination and they must recede to a certain point in order for flower to happen(along with the other pathways photoperiod, gibberlin, stress etc)
mir156 works by repressing a group of transcription SPLs. when the level of 156 drops, the SPLS increase and each one has a specific job to begin the bloom stage. so the mir156 are responsible for repressing about 10 functions and so tooo much 156 or "overexpression" changes life stage of the plant by inducing an "extended juvenile stage". anyone whos grown haze knows all about extended juvenile stages lol and alot of the traits found in 156 OE lines are present in haze.

View attachment 18978483


this chart shows how the levels of 156 become increased. in this example tetraploidy is used but an aneuploid situation- which are more common in haze then polyploids- would produce an even more severe effect. the levels of mir 156 would be related to increased dosage of precursors due to the increase in ploidity. these changes are usually chromosome specific, so an aneuploid with an extra copy would cause a giant dosage change in precursors

View attachment 18978484
View attachment 18978488
this is the trichome example of an overexpressed mir156 line . very similar to some of the best haze examples.

dont wana hijack the thread but theres alot more... heres some good links

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1674205215000957

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Regulation-of-Inflorescence-Trichomes-by-miR156-Targeted-SPL-Genes_fig1_45151166

Temporal Control of Trichome Distribution by MicroRNA156-Targeted SPL Genes in Arabidopsis thaliana - PMC

The microRNA156-targeted SQUAMOSA PROMOTER BINDING PROTEIN LIKE genes, which were reported to define an endogenous phase transition pathway, temporally control the trichome distribution on the stem and inflorescences by activating the trichome ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Temporal Control of Trichome Distribution by MicroRNA156-Targeted SPL Genes in Arabidopsis thaliana - PMC

The microRNA156-targeted SQUAMOSA PROMOTER BINDING PROTEIN LIKE genes, which were reported to define an endogenous phase transition pathway, temporally control the trichome distribution on the stem and inflorescences by activating the trichome ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

missed the chance to thank you for that post, better late than never

 

[Kimes]

Here's an example of aneuploid population in kullu showing effects of extra mir156 with adventious roots. Normally this trait is suppressed early on but an extended juvenile retains. Haze plants often have roots

You realize micro RNA are highly conserved in angiosperms these systems are universal. Not gonna waste my breathe on simpleton such as yourself

pic missing?

 

[MadMac]

hello,
well here the two best Outdoor OHz cut's ...
booth got STS on lower branches...
this two are the best from high.. and yield too...
litte different ... so that's why booth got STS... love some variation ;-)

Iranian Auto x OHz cut's from last year... they never stop preflowering... also not on 24 h light.. kept them under 18 h light ... my haze cut's get 15 h ...

4 meter+ and haze flavour ... finish begin til mid october ... and no issues... no mold no animals... survived all other... full sativa tree and not a small bush hehe
all the best
M.

 

[mexcurandero420]

@cola
You dont have to be rude

@MadMac
Nice bushes. How is the aroma like? Any incense, cedar woody scents to be detected among those ones?

 

[Nextgeneration73]

haze really prefers a dry warm medium. slightly rootbound is tolerated much better then wet/cold feet. another part of it is the balance between gibberlins and nitrogen. sativas have a gibberlin transporter gene which is dependent on low nitrogen. high nitrogen can actually shut down the gibberlin transport which reduces cell elongation.
for these reasons the holland growers have great success with undersized rockwool cubes. more control over nitrogen content and easier to keep dry and warm without the plant wilting. if a plant like a5 x ohz is normally large but now small, the problem starts in the medium and the vpd(temp/humidity balance)
a solution is generally to let the medium dry all the way out until new healthy growth starts again. from there keeping the root zone temp high will help take up more phosphorous critical to growth in bloom. keeping temp around 80 and humidity at least 60 she should turn right around!

That's why I'm not watering today I guess, but more on that on my thread.... I've heard that Malawi phenos are far more okay with wet mediums than Haze phenoes but I guess I'm in the wrong thread for that as I came to look up brown spots on lower yellowing leaves meaning....

 

[Nextgeneration73]

haze really prefers a dry warm medium. slightly rootbound is tolerated much better then wet/cold feet. another part of it is the balance between gibberlins and nitrogen. sativas have a gibberlin transporter gene which is dependent on low nitrogen. high nitrogen can actually shut down the gibberlin transport which reduces cell elongation.
for these reasons the holland growers have great success with undersized rockwool cubes. more control over nitrogen content and easier to keep dry and warm without the plant wilting. if a plant like a5 x ohz is normally large but now small, the problem starts in the medium and the vpd(temp/humidity balance)
a solution is generally to let the medium dry all the way out until new healthy growth starts again. from there keeping the root zone temp high will help take up more phosphorous critical to growth in bloom. keeping temp around 80 and humidity at least 60 she should turn right around!

If the soil already has tons of nitrogen, then how is it controlled then?

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

Take off the fan leaves as the branch they support gets about half an inch long and begins to get leaves of its own. This will slow vertical growth.

I’ve witnessed this as well. my personal working theory is… as the leaf gets older and bigger it sends growth hormones up that specific branch.

Ive kept squirrel tail from thailand, and colombian gold managable in grows that lasted 17, 19 weeks of flowering all in my little baby tent.

 

[early_bird]

A5 x Ohz, Flowering Day 92

 

[Rgd]

If the soil already has tons of nitrogen, then how is it controlled then?

Prayer..[jk]

 

[early_bird]

Harvest Day for A5 x Ohz, you find the pictures in this and the following post.
Thank you all for watching

EDIT: Harvest is canceled, i let them go a little longer

Early lässt´s wieder wachsen :)

Gerade ein paar Seeds gesäht. Diesmal alle Fems, die ich klein halten möchte damit sie in den Bonanza mit der 100 Watt Funzel passen, dort habe ich nicht viel Höhe. Folgendes gibt es bald zu sehen: - Oaxaca x A5 Haze - Thai Chi - Juanita La Lagrimosa Dazu kommt vielleicht noch eine 8 Miles...

www.icmag.com

 

[PPP]

Congrats for legalization!
I wish you best of luck for your Haze projects!
Plants looking great!

 

[kokomarin]

Othxoh cuts from last year and new one
Pine forrest with resin dom smell

 

[MadMac]

hello,
well back for a weekend...
much more work as i'll thought..
but my plants doing well so far
IA x OHz S1 ... best cut's ... booth lower branches got STS ... but there so damn fast with flowering ... 1 month from zero to big bud's .. had some spidermites but all sorted now...

first you think 2 x STS was not enough... but be patient... if the mix is good... it always works... this is STS mixed ready from last year... kept in fridge @4°C ... like my seeds

some of the new for last Hazing run ... Mazar is in forground.. i'll topped most of the others... Thai etc...

and over 48 new outdoor test gear from last best Auto x OHz ... also Crimea x OHz and Iraq Babylon x OHz..
and reversed OHz + reversed best auto... can't wait to plant them outdoors

most looking already full Sativa like... love my OHz male... he never fails ... 4 years now and results are crazy.. goal is to select the best like last year and make Fem's for outdoor grow pleasure... the high counts first ... if not uplifting and want to do weed ... it's not my ...
more later ... really busy
many thx & get hazed!
one love
M.

 

[LostSoulsofHaze]

Yo Mac, respect bro and congrats on the legalizing and seed store! Thought we should share this here.

 

[flower~power]

@MadMac … how does something like this even get built in the first place? can you imagine waking up there on a sunny day ? I can….

 

[Nexus7]

Yo Mac, respect bro and congrats on the legalizing and seed store! Thought we should share this here. View attachment 18997891

That's very interesting!

Is that your patent?

Can you tell us anything more about the line and what makes it special / unique?

 

[Disso]

That's very interesting!

Is that your patent?

Can you tell us anything more about the line and what makes it special / unique?

I have no connection or relation, but you can read more about the patent at 'uniqueflowerllc' on instagram.
There was some good discussion happening but they turned off the comments on all the patent posts besides the original, seemingly due to some very reasonable backlash... oh well. Extensive discussion can still be read on the original.

Essentially, they claim to be the first to recognize OH's medicinal potential for treating depression/anxiety. There are some strange sub claims about myrcene dominating its terpenes, but not leading to the typical sedative type effects they claim are usually associated with myrcene dominance.

It's a clear move to commercialize and pharmaceuticalize OH, supposedly spurred on by this move for cannabis to schedule 3 in USA, but under a patent in which nobody else can stand to profit from it.

If you patent something from a line you personally bred, that's a different conversation.. but to simply grow a 10 pack of seeds others created, and then claim you found something nobody else has (or at least nobody has 'recognized'), and think you have the sole right to profit off it as an anxiolytic/anti-depressant, based on a 'finders keepers, losers weepers' basis... something else entirely. Very questionable.. reeks of dollar signs and profiteering to me.
A true medicinally focused individual would not pursue this path, surely. I find it rather ironic, the patent holders' family name is Schatz (public information, plain to see on their own posts), which translates to treasure/wealth in German.

Edit: For the record, I have no problem with people making a living off cannabis in a variety of ways, but when 'your way' starts to jeopardize and limit patient's access to medicinal cannabis, in favor of profit, a line needs to be drawn. Since when has a monopoly ever benefitted the consumer/patient..?