Tony,
Take that water and throw some gypsum in it and stir it up good. Let is sit for a day. Measure the pH.
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lower a soil ph with plants in it
- Thread starter Tonygreen
- Start date
Tony,
Take that water and throw some gypsum in it and stir it up good. Let is sit for a day. Measure the pH.
lol watch the difference ?? Tony don't forget to add another 5 cups of gypsum while your add it, and another 2 cups of dolomite lime for the hell of it . Jesus christ lol.
Tony after you spend the next 3 months struggling with your soil Pm me.
I will set you up with 4 pounds of live worms FREE and help you set up your eco compost worm station that will enrich your soils for ever with out the worry of adding amendments and that crap , and especially worrying about PH in living soil.
Get away from that store bought shit soils that are not only contaminated with the most dreaded insects we here so much about, especially on forums like this one .
Most people trying to do something simple as organics , you ever notice ???? most of them going that route have nothing but issues , pests , soil is to hot , soil is depleted half way Hence TEAS ACTS lol and still they have issues
Don't fall for that nonsense crap ....
True living soil there is no needs for nothing healthy soil not only provides nutrients for the plants it attracts living things , microbes do well they establish them selfs and run in cycles in sequence to carbon cycles which include everything including fluctations in ph which is a normal event in decompostion of organic matter
I have Never tested my soils in my personal gardens, Never.
And i never ever had a issue of any Deficiency, ph issues , bad insects , caterpillars or any other issue we see so much now ..
The problem and what were seeing today is what one recipe that may work excellent in one region or geological area will do SHIT in another
Soil temps play crucial role for instance the biggest problem many growers encounter is ph to high when they make there soils Don't worry about it keep it moist warm with in a couple of weeks as microbes establish it will all fall into equilibrium ..
Adding ph buffers inhibit the microbes to establish properly , Don't fuck around with a good thing ..
In other words your effecting the natural carbon cycle fucking with PH
When making a soil...
Make it month ahead of when your going to need it allowing time for everything to establish and stabilize this is where a person could and should make a tea to kick start the life.. one time application.
As for Peat Moss i suggested adding some in as Peat is acidic is it good choice ???? not necessarily,, most soil less mediums contain peat based reason is it also repels water, peat also deteriorates rather quickly it operates or makes soil like a plunger.. that is by far not ideal for roots..
The biggest problem with peat moss is that it’s environmentally bankrupt.
Problem today is,
Gardeners seem to have been programmed to buy amendments , peat and are as loyal to these products as some car-buyers used to be about their beloved Pontiacs, there’s simply no need to use it. Chopped leaves make a much better and more attractive mulch, and compost is superior as a soil amendment then anything else out there
On closing note anyways Tony when you decide to make a real soil Naturally hit me up
Cause i guarantee you, there is no substitute.
Couple pictures of what i am talking about True living soil fuck the store bought man made machined crap. and the latest trends
Tony after you spend the next 3 months struggling with your soil Pm me.
I will set you up with 4 pounds of live worms FREE and help you set up your eco compost worm station that will enrich your soils for ever with out the worry of adding amendments and that crap , and especially worrying about PH in living soil.
Get away from that store bought shit soils that are not only contaminated with the most dreaded insects we here so much about, especially on forums like this one .
Most people trying to do something simple as organics , you ever notice ???? most of them going that route have nothing but issues , pests , soil is to hot , soil is depleted half way Hence TEAS ACTS lol and still they have issues
Don't fall for that nonsense crap ....
True living soil there is no needs for nothing healthy soil not only provides nutrients for the plants it attracts living things , microbes do well they establish them selfs and run in cycles in sequence to carbon cycles which include everything including fluctations in ph which is a normal event in decompostion of organic matter
I have Never tested my soils in my personal gardens, Never.
And i never ever had a issue of any Deficiency, ph issues , bad insects , caterpillars or any other issue we see so much now ..
The problem and what were seeing today is what one recipe that may work excellent in one region or geological area will do SHIT in another
Soil temps play crucial role for instance the biggest problem many growers encounter is ph to high when they make there soils Don't worry about it keep it moist warm with in a couple of weeks as microbes establish it will all fall into equilibrium ..
Adding ph buffers inhibit the microbes to establish properly , Don't fuck around with a good thing ..
In other words your effecting the natural carbon cycle fucking with PH
When making a soil...
Make it month ahead of when your going to need it allowing time for everything to establish and stabilize this is where a person could and should make a tea to kick start the life.. one time application.
As for Peat Moss i suggested adding some in as Peat is acidic is it good choice ???? not necessarily,, most soil less mediums contain peat based reason is it also repels water, peat also deteriorates rather quickly it operates or makes soil like a plunger.. that is by far not ideal for roots..
The biggest problem with peat moss is that it’s environmentally bankrupt.
Problem today is,
Gardeners seem to have been programmed to buy amendments , peat and are as loyal to these products as some car-buyers used to be about their beloved Pontiacs, there’s simply no need to use it. Chopped leaves make a much better and more attractive mulch, and compost is superior as a soil amendment then anything else out there
On closing note anyways Tony when you decide to make a real soil Naturally hit me up
Cause i guarantee you, there is no substitute.
Couple pictures of what i am talking about True living soil fuck the store bought man made machined crap. and the latest trends
Attachments
lol watch the difference ?? Tony don't forget to add another 5 cups of gypsum while your add it, and another 2 cups of dolomite lime for the hell of it . Jesus christ lol.
Tony after you spend the next 3 months struggling with your soil Pm me.
I will set you up with 4 pounds of live worms FREE and help you set up your eco compost worm station that will enrich your soils for ever with out the worry of adding amendments and that crap , and especially worrying about PH in living soil.
The problem and what were seeing today is what one recipe that may work excellent in one region or geological area will do SHIT in another
Soil temps play crucial role for instance the biggest problem many growers encounter is ph to high when they make there soils Don't worry about it keep it moist warm with in a couple of weeks as microbes establish it will all fall into equilibrium ..
Adding ph buffers inhibit the microbes to establish properly , Don't fuck around with a good thing ..
In other words your effecting the natural carbon cycle fucking with PH
When making a soil...
Make it month ahead of when your going to need it allowing time for everything to establish and stabilize this is where a person could and should make a tea to kick start the life.. one time application.
As for Peat Moss i suggested adding some in as Peat is acidic is it good choice ???? not necessarily,, most soil less mediums contain peat based reason is it also repels water, peat also deteriorates rather quickly it operates or makes soil like a plunger.. that is by far not ideal for roots..
The biggest problem with peat moss is that it’s environmentally bankrupt.
Problem today is,
Gardeners seem to have been programmed to buy amendments , peat and are as loyal to these products as some car-buyers used to be about their beloved Pontiacs, there’s simply no need to use it. Chopped leaves make a much better and more attractive mulch, and compost is superior as a soil amendment then anything else out there
On closing note anyways Tony when you decide to make a real soil Naturally hit me up
Cause i guarantee you, there is no substitute.
Couple pictures of what i am talking about True living soil fuck the store bought man made machined crap. and the latest trends
Tony,
I tend to agree a bit with Slipnot. You can't beat the organic route, but we will agree to disagree on adding some needed amendments and using a good soil analysis.
Ideally you would use decent quantities of worm castings (as do I), to supply a great deal of your plant nutrition. It is the max for feeding. With that said, there is not enough calcium in worm castings. If your soil doesn't have enough Calcium and the soil is high in Mg, you will have a hard time...
(Maybe Slipnot can show us a plant in 100% worm castings to prove me wrong.)
The major problem you will have with organics is that it is a bit lop sided and tends to look just like the soil and organic material it came from originally. If one is a very balanced soil location like Maui or parts of California, well, that worm casting will be a lot better than if it came from parts of Oregon or Washington State.
Biology needs to be sustained by both good water and a constant food supply, worm castings can do that. Mulch also can contribute greatly. (Even if it is a synthetic one like shade cloth).
Slow nickel you sound like you got stocks in Gypsum lol , Its kinda funny really Gypsum this Gypsum that now add water with Gypsum, i bet your thinking up a good Gypsum tea recipe..
Tony so much more to growing and coating other peoples pockets with money lol seriously when all you need is literally right in your back yard and fridge
Oh by the way that plant above is only watered by rain nothing else longest drought was 19 days this year, would love to see a plant that was amended with dolomite, Gypsum, Bone, Blood meal.
Go that long with out water , i would bet it would be dead ??? who the fuck, am i kidding it would be dead ..
i even use the same soil combo to clone with no issues whoa whoa
now add water with Gypsum, i bet your thinking up a good Gypsum tea recipe..Tony so much more to growing and coating other peoples pockets with money lol seriously when all you need is literally right in your back yard and fridge
Oh by the way that plant above is only watered by rain nothing else longest drought was 19 days this year, would love to see a plant that was amended with dolomite, Gypsum, Bone, Blood meal.
Go that long with out water , i would bet it would be dead ??? who the fuck, am i kidding it would be dead ..
i even use the same soil combo to clone with no issues whoa whoa
Attachments
Slow nickel you sound like you got stocks in Gypsum lol , Its kinda funny really Gypsum this Gypsum that
Tony so much more to growing and coating other peoples pockets with money lol seriously when all you need is literally right in your back yard and fridge
Oh by the way that plant above is only watered by rain nothing else longest drought was 19 days this year, would love to see a plant that was amended with dolomite, Gypsum, Bone, Blood meal.
Go that long with out water , i would bet it would be dead ??? who the fuck, am i kidding it would be dead ..
i even use the same soil combo to clone with no issues whoa whoa
Slipnot,
Went through some of your photos. Sure looks like a lot of broadleaf weeds. This means you are in part of the world that is sitting in calcium and probably have good drainage.
This would explain why you can pull off just worm castings from all your food garbage and come out with those plants.
Other parts of the world (there are others) don't have that blessing.
I have seen as have many on this board, that gypsum can save folks big time, especially when many start following the 100% organic worm castings/compost method.
I don't sell gypsum nor have any financial interest in whether you use it or not.
Well pot 1 is 6.2 ph on top layer and .7 ec
Pot 2 is 6.1 ph on top layer and .6 ec.
Since im flushing its probably hotter on the lower layers.
I guess let it sit a few days and mix it up?
Been runnin the shop vac for over an hour ha.
You can see the shit fly off in the run off after adding gypsum though.
Now the run off EC is just 3 and ph 5.8 FWIW.
They are still draining of course.
Pot 2 is 6.1 ph on top layer and .6 ec.
Since im flushing its probably hotter on the lower layers.
I guess let it sit a few days and mix it up?
Been runnin the shop vac for over an hour ha.
You can see the shit fly off in the run off after adding gypsum though.
Now the run off EC is just 3 and ph 5.8 FWIW.
They are still draining of course.
Glad you are figuring out how to gain control.
Most growers don't have this tool to gain control back. As you can see in your findings, it is the only element and only in this form, that can lower the EC and balance the bases.
Something doesn't make sense. Your runoff has a pH of 5.8? How were you testing your SOIL pH, with your regular water or distilled water?
I am just saying that one can be defeating the purpose let nature take care of the ph when we interfere by thinking were doing good by changing ph to soon it effects everything it effects plants uptake it slows down micro life etc
The problem is In alkaline soils, phosphorous, iron, and zinc are limited. In acidic soil, calcium and magnesium are less available to plants.
Hence the craze of adding calcium products its not that the plant is using it up its that
Marijuana is a acid loving soil plant
were over burdening the soil with calcium products end of story ..
the real goal is having a ph in the 6.8 - 7.2 scale where plant can absorb all types of nutrients that is needed
Were really compounding the issue there is a fine line as to where to draw the line, and there is no lie were seeing it all over the net people having issues and first thing that comes to mind is lime lime lime ..
Since Increasing the quantity of earthworms and planting deep-rooted plants will let air into lower levels of the soil. Micro-organisms like bacteria, fungi, actinomycetes, algae, nematodes and protozoa, need oxygen to contribute directly to the release of nutrients to the plant. Some species of mycorrhizae tolerate very low oxygen levels, and infest roots much deeper than other species of beneficial microbes, providing nutrients and root protection. There are many symbiotic relationships going on between roots, organic matter, clay and micro-organisms to support the plant. Soil that is worked too wet annihilates air and water space, destroying the environment that microbes need. Soil that is worked too dry creates similar problems. Tending soil for optimum production means adding minerals and compost every year. Balanced, fertile soil makes for higher yields, better flavor, less disease and insect pressure and more nutritious food.
And this can be done Free with no amendments what so ever , its a win win
Too much calcium can tie up all other nutrients especially magnesium, potassium, boron, zinc and copper. and any amendment containing this should be used wisely Specially going at it blindly
Its a accident waiting to happen
Calcium cation saturation needs to be over 60% before you add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to lower excess magnesium otherwise the sulfur in the gypsum will take out the calcium first. Add limestone first to raise calcium to 60%, and then add enough gypsum to raise calcium levels to 68%. One third of applied calcium will become available the first year and it takes 3 years to be completely utilized. Solution grade limestone will become 100% available within 1-3 months.
Limestone applied to the surface of the soil will work its way into the soil at the rate of 1” per year. interesting shit huh ???
Then we get into CEC's , and saturation points etc
For the most fertile soil,
the cation saturation is balanced and the pH will fall into a range of 6.3 – 6.8. Outside this pH range nutrients become unavailable and soil biology is suppressed. Decay of organic matter into humus is also reduced. By increasing the humus the CEC will increase, providing improved nutrient retention and availability. CEC goes up 2 points for every 1% organic matter goes up.
Cation saturation is the percentage of calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium and hydrogen held on the clay and humus sites on a soil test. The ideal calcium would be 68% to 72%. The ideal magnesium depends on how much sand or clay the soil contains. For sandy soil the optimum would be 16% to 20% and for clay soils closer to 12%. The ideal potassium would be at least 2% and 4% to 6% is better. The ideal sodium is at least .5% and not over 3%.
But again were being lured away to thinking we need to know this shit like we really know WTF is what lol .. for the average grower one would never know with out a test then, even understanding it is a science on its own lol.
Why bother i say unless your serious about money making grows like this i say keep it simple next year i will mix in 50 percent compost into that soil i am growing that plant add top mulch and it will do the same thing
The problem is In alkaline soils, phosphorous, iron, and zinc are limited. In acidic soil, calcium and magnesium are less available to plants.
Hence the craze of adding calcium products its not that the plant is using it up its that
Marijuana is a acid loving soil plant
were over burdening the soil with calcium products end of story ..
the real goal is having a ph in the 6.8 - 7.2 scale where plant can absorb all types of nutrients that is needed
Were really compounding the issue there is a fine line as to where to draw the line, and there is no lie were seeing it all over the net people having issues and first thing that comes to mind is lime lime lime ..
Since Increasing the quantity of earthworms and planting deep-rooted plants will let air into lower levels of the soil. Micro-organisms like bacteria, fungi, actinomycetes, algae, nematodes and protozoa, need oxygen to contribute directly to the release of nutrients to the plant. Some species of mycorrhizae tolerate very low oxygen levels, and infest roots much deeper than other species of beneficial microbes, providing nutrients and root protection. There are many symbiotic relationships going on between roots, organic matter, clay and micro-organisms to support the plant. Soil that is worked too wet annihilates air and water space, destroying the environment that microbes need. Soil that is worked too dry creates similar problems. Tending soil for optimum production means adding minerals and compost every year. Balanced, fertile soil makes for higher yields, better flavor, less disease and insect pressure and more nutritious food.
And this can be done Free with no amendments what so ever , its a win win
Too much calcium can tie up all other nutrients especially magnesium, potassium, boron, zinc and copper. and any amendment containing this should be used wisely Specially going at it blindly
Its a accident waiting to happen
Calcium cation saturation needs to be over 60% before you add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to lower excess magnesium otherwise the sulfur in the gypsum will take out the calcium first. Add limestone first to raise calcium to 60%, and then add enough gypsum to raise calcium levels to 68%. One third of applied calcium will become available the first year and it takes 3 years to be completely utilized. Solution grade limestone will become 100% available within 1-3 months.
Limestone applied to the surface of the soil will work its way into the soil at the rate of 1” per year. interesting shit huh ???
Then we get into CEC's , and saturation points etc
For the most fertile soil,
the cation saturation is balanced and the pH will fall into a range of 6.3 – 6.8. Outside this pH range nutrients become unavailable and soil biology is suppressed. Decay of organic matter into humus is also reduced. By increasing the humus the CEC will increase, providing improved nutrient retention and availability. CEC goes up 2 points for every 1% organic matter goes up.
Cation saturation is the percentage of calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium and hydrogen held on the clay and humus sites on a soil test. The ideal calcium would be 68% to 72%. The ideal magnesium depends on how much sand or clay the soil contains. For sandy soil the optimum would be 16% to 20% and for clay soils closer to 12%. The ideal potassium would be at least 2% and 4% to 6% is better. The ideal sodium is at least .5% and not over 3%.
But again were being lured away to thinking we need to know this shit like we really know WTF is what lol .. for the average grower one would never know with out a test then, even understanding it is a science on its own lol.
Why bother i say unless your serious about money making grows like this i say keep it simple next year i will mix in 50 percent compost into that soil i am growing that plant add top mulch and it will do the same thing
Attachments
So going forward? I am assuming the bottom is saturated with salts now? Should i wait a few days to dry, mix and flush again or wait a few days and flush some more to get the bottom shit then mix?
If that shop vac woulda filled mid suck i woulda been fucked ha!
If that shop vac woulda filled mid suck i woulda been fucked ha!
Slipnot,
How is mother nature going to deal with the pH of Tonys' water at 7.4?
In this case, Tony had way too much of everything in his mix.
Would you have had him wash in lime and wait 1 to 3 months?
Would you have had him add compost or worm castings?
Just wondering.
Well I appreciate everyones help getting this medium to at least be able to support life.
I know winging it aint the way to go its what got me in this mess. I also got 4 kids to feed and christmas coming not to mention my degenerative back that needs meds, so im grateful for the help.
Going forward guys? Let this thing cook a few days and dry up?
Should I flush again in a few days and or remix to get that bottom shit out?
I know winging it aint the way to go its what got me in this mess. I also got 4 kids to feed and christmas coming not to mention my degenerative back that needs meds, so im grateful for the help.
Going forward guys? Let this thing cook a few days and dry up?
Should I flush again in a few days and or remix to get that bottom shit out?
And one more note, I have recovered citrus trees and coffee trees in many parts of Central America using gypsum within 90 days of application. Visible and economic results. The calcium was well below 50% in those heavy clays that receive a couple of meters of rain per year.
Add lime in that situation and you will wait for three years to see a difference. Folks can't afford water soluble lime.
Your Mg recommendations in many parts of the world would not have much success. I have 90% sand and my yields and results are much better at 7 to 9% Mg. My CEC is also 18. So using physical textures to measure a soil can sometimes be misleading and result in the application of the wrong amendments/nutrients.
You need to get past Albrecht, read Albrechts' comments about 85% Ca and you might change your mind about the base distribution numbers. Tiedjens would help even more....
Add lime in that situation and you will wait for three years to see a difference. Folks can't afford water soluble lime.
Your Mg recommendations in many parts of the world would not have much success. I have 90% sand and my yields and results are much better at 7 to 9% Mg. My CEC is also 18. So using physical textures to measure a soil can sometimes be misleading and result in the application of the wrong amendments/nutrients.
You need to get past Albrecht, read Albrechts' comments about 85% Ca and you might change your mind about the base distribution numbers. Tiedjens would help even more....
I was thinking taking the top half out in a few days after everything consitnues to drip down and just flushing the bottom half until the ec is acceptable then remix it all?
Thinking that would be a fairly homogenous mix, then send it off to be tested. What is the turn around on the testing roughly? I got time before any clone is ready anyway.
These are 18 inch deep pots 27 inch wide.
Thinking that would be a fairly homogenous mix, then send it off to be tested. What is the turn around on the testing roughly? I got time before any clone is ready anyway.
These are 18 inch deep pots 27 inch wide.
Or hell is it ok to leave with 3 ec run off coming off down there, i see people saying they put a richer layer underneath, I always thought that was hogwash and an evenly mixed soil would be better, who knows, ha.
Should I just keep flushing more now to get that run off ec lower?
Should I just keep flushing more now to get that run off ec lower?
I would keep wetting in down til you get down to .6
Well if i was in Tony's shoes i would hit botanic garden center, pick up some of there bagged organic soil mix,most have there own recipe.. or what ever.
Or Years ago I used promix BX as base 113 liter , add 2 bags of sheep manure,
2 bag of shrimp compost ,2 bags of top soil ( Sterilized ) 1 bag of castings and 1 bag of rinsed perlite mixed well . run slurry test adjust soil ph accordingly to results
Transplant and go
or order my own recipe and order 16 yards
That is what i would do rather then waiting for soil to dry out cause Either way i would think least from my experience.
The plant would rebound back much quicker and with the slow release of nutrients from sheep manure all Tony would have to do water
If his sourced water is high or low in ph range then he might have to figure out what to do there mix RO water with water or just get PH up and PH down ..
Or Years ago I used promix BX as base 113 liter , add 2 bags of sheep manure,
2 bag of shrimp compost ,2 bags of top soil ( Sterilized ) 1 bag of castings and 1 bag of rinsed perlite mixed well . run slurry test adjust soil ph accordingly to results
Transplant and go
or order my own recipe and order 16 yards
That is what i would do rather then waiting for soil to dry out cause Either way i would think least from my experience.
The plant would rebound back much quicker and with the slow release of nutrients from sheep manure all Tony would have to do water
If his sourced water is high or low in ph range then he might have to figure out what to do there mix RO water with water or just get PH up and PH down ..
Attachments
Slip,
You want him to throw everything away and start over? Ouch.
It is easier to clean up what he has with gypsum and get a soil analysis to dial it in.
For someone that was talking everything is in your fridge and garbage pail and now you want to send him down the road and but all new medium?
I'm at a loss for words...
