lower a soil ph with plants in it

[Tonygreen]

So mixing 1 part peat to 4 parts soil mix i have seems to ge me around 5.9-6.0.
Do you think this is a safe area? I assume the copius amount of lime I added originally will trend that upward slightly anyway? I watered in 5 cups of gypsum to each 45 gallon last night and remixing it today with peat.

Im mixing in 15 gallon buckets to try to get a homegenous blend that seems within growing parameters, then will have it tested. Does PH 6 seems about right to shoot for with all that lime i added already?

 

[Tonygreen]

Well the final mix for the first pot is 6.2 ph now, added about 1 cf peat to get it there.
Draining much better now much more air in the mix. Ec is at 2 right now. Still a little hot eh?
I originally mixed the amendments a week ago. Do ya reckon another week of cooking will lower it some more or should I flush more?

The idea is to get a soil plants will at least grow in then ill send in for samples to dial it in.

 

[slownickel]

Ideally you would get that EC down to .5 or so.

Turn on the water and wash in a bunch more gypsum. I would use more peat, way too much soil. You are going to have a very high CEC making it very hard to more the bases around when you need to.

 

[Tonygreen]

I put 5 cups per each 45 gallon so far. 2 cups is one pound or so roughly. If I double it I will be just under 1 pound per cubic foot mark since they are 6 cubic foot bags.

I have more peat but the ph drops low, shall I assume it will rise when the lime i added so much of kicks in? What PH do you think I should shoot for considering. 4 of the current messed up mix to 1 peat gets me to 5.8PH.

The bag I just re-did took 6 mix to 1 peat to get to 6.2 PH.

About to start working on the second 45 bag now.

Once I have a soil a plant can at least live in ill get it tested. Getting closer it seems.

 

[Tonygreen]

I found this which describes the process you are having me do.

http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/publications/E-60.pdf

Before leaching saline-sodic
and sodic soils, you must first treat them with chemicals,
to reduce the exchangeable sodium content. To
remove or exchange with the sodium, add calcium in
a soluble form such as gypsum. Again, the laboratory
analysis can determine how much calcium to add.

After the calcium treatment, the sodium can then
be leached through the soil along with the other soluble
salts. Gypsum is the most common amendment
used to correct saline-sodic or sodic soils that have no
calcium source such as gypsum or free carbonates.
These are available at garden centers and agricultural
supply stores. Another amendment, calcium chloride,
is used in some places, but it is seldom available in
most areas.
Many soils in the southern and western two-thirds
parts of Texas contain significant concentrations of
free limestone, which contains calcium carbonate.
Unfortunately, these calcium sources do not dissolve
in soils with high pH and therefore cannot help lower
sodium levels.
If your soil contains free carbonates, you can add
acids to it to form gypsum, which will react with the
soil to remove the exchangeable sodium. Add sulfuric
acid, sulfur, iron sulfates and aluminum sulfate, which
will react in the soil to produce acid. The acid will
then react with the calcium carbonates (limestone) to
form calcium sulfate (gypsum), water and carbon dioxide.
The acidity may also displace some of the sodium.
Table 2 lists typical amendments used to correct
salt-affected soils. Although all of these amendments
work, to use them you must know the amount of reactive
limestone present. In general, gypsum is the safest In general, gypsum is the safest
and most effective material.

 

[slownickel]

Yep. Been doing it for nearly 30 years that way. haha..

 

[Tonygreen]

ya reckon another 5 cups then? Thats will be just under the 1` pound per cubic foot mark.
I can add more peat I have plenty but what ph should i let it get to when I mix it? I put the marks in the post above.

Gonna mix this second bag then wash em down. Ill top till in the one i finished but i can mix the gypsum as i go with this second one.

The first 5 cups i washed in yesterday got my EC down from 9 to 2 ha...

4 to 1 mix to peat resembles happy frog, 5 to 1 resembles ocean forest visually and texture wise.

 

[Tonygreen]

4 soil mix to peat is getting me to 5.7 ph and 3.1 ec.

Waiting to test a 5 to 1 now.

 

[Tonygreen]

great paper on EC while I wait for the 5 to 1 test to soak. Their protocol listed in here calls for capping the sample and water and shaking 25 times then taking a reading. Faster than letting it soak heh.

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_053280.pdf

 

[slownickel]

ya reckon another 5 cups then? Thats will be just under the 1` pound per cubic foot mark.
I can add more peat I have plenty but what ph should i let it get to when I mix it? I put the marks in the post above.

Gonna mix this second bag then wash em down. Ill top till in the one i finished but i can mix the gypsum as i go with this second one.

The first 5 cups i washed in yesterday got my EC down from 9 to 2 ha...

4 to 1 mix to peat resembles happy frog, 5 to 1 resembles ocean forest visually and texture wise.

Go for the texture and head to the light.... add another 5 cups. And in one bag, add 7 cups more. Watch the difference....

Realize that you won't have space to fertilize until you get that EC down. You really don't need more that 0.5 or 0.6 EC. Maybe at the end a little more... but not much....

 

[Tonygreen]

The plan was for water only mix, i guess one goal might get hit ha!

Gonna finish up the remix and do the washing today, worked myself to death last night, boy is the back aching from sling that wet 3 cf of peat around lol...

Onward and upward but first time for a smoke to ease these old bones!



This is mainly how I killed my plants guys, gotta go pick up my back ups from my mom when i get time, no plants atm so i got time to get the soil right ha.

 

[Tonygreen]

BTW 4 to 1 of my mix to peat or 5 to 1 looks much better than the 5 to 1 in the first pot.
PH goes down to 5.7-.5.8 at that level though.

I am thinking the lime I added and the peat decomposing over time will edge it bck up over 6 so not to worry about that? Thats my main question im pondering over atm.

 

[slownickel]

BTW 4 to 1 of my mix to peat or 5 to 1 looks much better than the 5 to 1 in the first pot.
PH goes down to 5.7-.5.8 at that level though.

I am thinking the lime I added and the peat decomposing over time will edge it bck up over 6 so not to worry about that? Thats my main question im pondering over atm.

Add more lime.... aim for 6.2 or so.

What is the pH of your water?

 

[Tonygreen]

7.4-7.8 it varies depending on the day ha.

 

[slownickel]

7.4-7.8 it varies depending on the day ha.

Your pH will gravitate towards the pH of your water....

 

[oti$]

Your pH will gravitate towards the pH of your water....

Does this mean you should pH your water once the soil's ph is in line? Or if the soil is balanced out does the pH of the water not matter so much?

 

[oti$]

Also, slownickel, do you have any recommended reading for someone interested in getting into growing in organic soil. I've not done any dirt grows. I'm currently collecting amendments and reading the organic forums and a couple books that were recommended to me. I will probably mix up some dirt and hopefully plant something in it by november\december.

 

[slownickel]

Does this mean you should pH your water once the soil's ph is in line? Or if the soil is balanced out does the pH of the water not matter so much?

1. This means you should get a water analysis and see what is spiking your water.

2. This also means aim low with the pH of the mix. 6.1-6.2, knowing that your water is going to spike the pH. The problem is that there are these elements that want to push your pH up. You have no idea what they are. This means you better make a very loose mix, or everything is going to build up quick and then TWANG!

 

[oti$]

Makes sense, thanks

 

[slownickel]

Also, slownickel, do you have any recommended reading for someone interested in getting into growing in organic soil. I've not done any dirt grows. I'm currently collecting amendments and reading the organic forums and a couple books that were recommended to me. I will probably mix up some dirt and hopefully plant something in it by november\december.

Tiedjens "More Food from Soil Science" is my favorite so that folks get the Calcium message. His real science and experiments leave no one wondering how really important it is to have Calcium very high in your soil.

Albrecht in his retired yields came to agree with Tiedjens about using Ca at 85% of the bases, up from the 68% that he advocated all of his life (imagine).

Steve Solomons' latest book is ok, but missed the boat at recommending anything above 70%. My dear friend Mikey A, I would steer clear of.

If you come over to the Slow Nickel Lounge thread, you might enjoy the posts that are coming in.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=331317

I would also suggest reading the AEA thread, though not organic, very informative... note this post in that page where one particular grower is using 80 lbs of gypsum per 3 cubic meters of a very loose mix, with small quantities of compost, worm castings etc.. and is nailing it...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=289990&page=208