Looking for stable/homogeneous seeds from North America (in EU)

[CharlesU Farley]

Homogenity/homozygous (stability as a side effect) because I wanted to get what I buy and not have to do a selection. Especially if I am only planting one or two seeds per strain.

That was certainly not too much to expect... 30 years ago.

I cannot imagine trying to find a stabilized version of _any_ varietal of cannabis now, from a commercial seed bank. Essentially everything is a multi, poly-hybrid of unknown provenance and a certified / guaranteed bullshit story about how it was developed.

It is not for a homogene canopy, SoG or breeding purposes.
My idea was to first grow three to six different strains to test a variety of different strains and then reduce down to one to two plants/strains (or, when tackeling ACE sativas) that I like while still having a nice stash to fall back to.

That is the absolute perfect plan!!!! If he was still selling seeds in the US, I would recommend Northern Lights from Mike at PeakSeeds BC but he is no longer selling seeds and several people have been ripping off the name and selling counterfeit shit so now I wouldn't bother.

I found the strain that I loved, Northern Lights, over 25 years ago and that's still all I grow.

Best of luck to you!!

 

[JetLife175]

That was certainly not too much to expect... 30 years ago.

I cannot imagine trying to find a stabilized version of _any_ varietal of cannabis now, from a commercial seed bank. Essentially everything is a multi, poly-hybrid of unknown provenance and a certified / guaranteed bullshit story about how it was developed.



That is the absolute perfect plan!!!! If he was still selling seeds in the US, I would recommend Northern Lights from Mike at PeakSeeds BC but he is no longer selling seeds and several people have been ripping off the name and selling counterfeit shit so now I wouldn't bother.

I found the strain that I loved, Northern Lights, over 25 years ago and that's still all I grow.

Best of luck to you!!

Peak seeds really does have some heat in their lineup. Knew a buddy who ran their NL for years. It never got old. Was always in rotation until it was lost. Very true to the cultivar.

 

[Ankermann]

OK indeed there was a misunderstanding but I still don't understand the law of your country, it is legal to buy seeds in EU but not outside of it or it's not legal at all ?
If you want to order from Spain(EU) there is a big site who has many seed brands called Alchimia, you can find the main name of the game there or Old school genetics who sells Karma, his own seeds and Lucky Dog (ChemDog brand).

Thank you for pointing me to Alchimia and Lucky Dog!

Regard seeds and ordering/purchasing them:
It is allowed to import seeds from within the EU to Germany for private use as it is legal to order them online, but only if they are shipped within the EU.
If seeds from outside the EU are discovered they can (literally, not will or must) be confiscated.

Spoiler: Text in German with link

Gesetz zum Umgang mit Konsumcannabis (Konsumcannabisgesetz - KCanG)​

§ 4 Umgang mit Cannabissamen​

(1) Der Umgang mit Cannabissamen ist erlaubt, sofern die Cannabissamen nicht zum unerlaubten Anbau bestimmt sind.
(2) Abweichend von Absatz 1 ist die Einfuhr von Cannabissamen zum Zweck des privaten Eigenanbaus von Cannabis nach § 9 oder des gemeinschaftlichen Eigenanbaus von Cannabis in Anbauvereinigungen nach Kapitel 4 nur aus Mitgliedstaaten der Europäischen Union erlaubt.
(3) Die Bestimmungen zum Umgang mit Vermehrungsmaterial nach § 10 sowie Kapitel 4 bleiben von Absatz 1 unberührt.
(4) Cannabissamen, die entgegen Absatz 2 eingeführt worden sind oder eingeführt werden sollen, können sichergestellt werden; § 2 Absatz 6 gilt entsprechend.​

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/kcang/__4.html

Spoiler: and the translation via deepl (and link).

Act on the Handling of Cannabis for Consumption (Consumer Cannabis Act - KCanG)
§ Section 4 Dealing with cannabis seeds
(1) The handling of cannabis seeds is permitted, provided that the cannabis seeds are not intended for unauthorized cultivation.
(2) By way of derogation from subsection (1), the import of cannabis seeds for the purpose of private home cultivation of cannabis pursuant to Section 9 or the communal home cultivation of cannabis in cultivation associations pursuant to Chapter 4 is only permitted from Member States of the European Union.
(3) The provisions on the handling of propagating material pursuant to Section 10 and Chapter 4 shall remain unaffected by subsection (1).
(4) Cannabis seeds that have been or are to be imported contrary to subsection (2) may be seized; Section 2 subsection (6) shall apply mutatis mutandis.​

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Maybe your looking for seeds from a strain that breeds true?
True breeding in my view is consistent outcomes in progeny or bx.

Another way of saying it would be low phenotypic variation.

I think part of the confusion in here is a lack of clarity of what your looking for. I did wrongly assume it was for canopy/plant size uniformity. So that's on me.

I will say in my experience there are no guarantees from most seeds as far as what you get.

For fems, check out Verdant Green on Real Gorilla Seeds, or message @ojd to see what he has from Conoisseur Genetics.

I've run Verdants Bubba Kush and it's on point. Great indica. Classic but great quality.

Ojd has a ton of fem varieties.

Both will ship from Eu.

Imho most modern stuff will have higher phenotypic variation. But the older stuff might have lower variation. Just my opinion... but I do not think phenotypic variation is bad in this case, as long as all phenotypes are high quality.

Are we talking Sativa, Indica, or polyhybrid?


When you say modern US strains it makes me think polyhybrid. Which can be notoriously high in phenotypic variation. Especially f1s or s1s which can open up the genetic pool instead of isolating it.

Yes, exactly, low phenotypic variation.
And I settled on old(er) strains because of modern ones correlating with high phenotypic variation.
I just wanted to jump on the hype train or at least judge for myself, but not with pheno hunting in such a small enclosure.

That was certainly not too much to expect... 30 years ago.

I cannot imagine trying to find a stabilized version of _any_ varietal of cannabis now, from a commercial seed bank. Essentially everything is a multi, poly-hybrid of unknown provenance and a certified / guaranteed bullshit story about how it was developed.



That is the absolute perfect plan!!!! If he was still selling seeds in the US, I would recommend Northern Lights from Mike at PeakSeeds BC but he is no longer selling seeds and several people have been ripping off the name and selling counterfeit shit so now I wouldn't bother.

I found the strain that I loved, Northern Lights, over 25 years ago and that's still all I grow.

Best of luck to you!!

NL is spot number 2 on my "want to grow list" so far.
So far I haven't put in the research on who has close to original or homogeneous seeds of this one. Apparently Sensi has lost the mother plants of this one as well.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

...NL is spot number 2 on my "want to grow list" so far.​

So far I haven't put in the research on who has close to original or homogeneous seeds of this one. Apparently Sensi has lost the mother plants of this one as well.

I've heard that same rumor about Sensi but I got to believe they still have the real genetics. The NL line was essentially the foundation for Sensi in the '80s and '90s so I find it very hard to believe they'd let that go by the wayside. Seeds are too easy to store.

Here in the US, we can't even get regular Sensi NL seeds, only those feminized abominations are available to US growers.

I'm not sure how I would source honest to God, real NL these days, probably try to source some from Mike at peak seeds BC but probably wouldn't have any luck.

But I do know, I would stay as far away as I could from Authentic Genetics and other pollen chuckers of his ilk.

 

[kro-magnon]

Thank you for pointing me to Alchimia and Lucky Dog!

Regard seeds and ordering/purchasing them:
It is allowed to import seeds from within the EU to Germany for private use as it is legal to order them online, but only if they are shipped within the EU.
If seeds from outside the EU are discovered they can (literally, not will or must) be confiscated.

Spoiler: Text in German with link

Gesetz zum Umgang mit Konsumcannabis (Konsumcannabisgesetz - KCanG)​

§ 4 Umgang mit Cannabissamen​

(1) Der Umgang mit Cannabissamen ist erlaubt, sofern die Cannabissamen nicht zum unerlaubten Anbau bestimmt sind.
(2) Abweichend von Absatz 1 ist die Einfuhr von Cannabissamen zum Zweck des privaten Eigenanbaus von Cannabis nach § 9 oder des gemeinschaftlichen Eigenanbaus von Cannabis in Anbauvereinigungen nach Kapitel 4 nur aus Mitgliedstaaten der Europäischen Union erlaubt.
(3) Die Bestimmungen zum Umgang mit Vermehrungsmaterial nach § 10 sowie Kapitel 4 bleiben von Absatz 1 unberührt.
(4) Cannabissamen, die entgegen Absatz 2 eingeführt worden sind oder eingeführt werden sollen, können sichergestellt werden; § 2 Absatz 6 gilt entsprechend.​

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/kcang/__4.html

Spoiler: and the translation via deepl (and link).

Act on the Handling of Cannabis for Consumption (Consumer Cannabis Act - KCanG)
§ Section 4 Dealing with cannabis seeds
(1) The handling of cannabis seeds is permitted, provided that the cannabis seeds are not intended for unauthorized cultivation.
(2) By way of derogation from subsection (1), the import of cannabis seeds for the purpose of private home cultivation of cannabis pursuant to Section 9 or the communal home cultivation of cannabis in cultivation associations pursuant to Chapter 4 is only permitted from Member States of the European Union.
(3) The provisions on the handling of propagating material pursuant to Section 10 and Chapter 4 shall remain unaffected by subsection (1).
(4) Cannabis seeds that have been or are to be imported contrary to subsection (2) may be seized; Section 2 subsection (6) shall apply mutatis mutandis.​

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Yes, exactly, low phenotypic variation.
And I settled on old(er) strains because of modern ones correlating with high phenotypic variation.
I just wanted to jump on the hype train or at least judge for myself, but not with pheno hunting in such a small enclosure.


NL is spot number 2 on my "want to grow list" so far.
So far I haven't put in the research on who has close to original or homogeneous seeds of this one. Apparently Sensi has lost the mother plants of this one as well.

wow your law are weird, why allowing seeds from EU but not from outside?
Anyway you can find all you want between Alchimia and Oldschoolgenetics sites.
About Sensi,the seed production was outlawed in holand in 98 and they lost many genetics to police raids, like many other Dutch seedbanks. The seeds for most those companies are done in Spain now often grown by one organisation who sells the same seeds to different brands who sell the same stuff under different names;

 

[couchlockd]

I've heard that same rumor about Sensi but I got to believe they still have the real genetics. The NL line was essentially the foundation for Sensi in the '80s and '90s so I find it very hard to believe they'd let that go by the wayside. Seeds are too easy to store.

Here in the US, we can't even get regular Sensi NL seeds, only those feminized abominations are available to US growers.

I'm not sure how I would source honest to God, real NL these days, probably try to source some from Mike at peak seeds BC but probably wouldn't have any luck.

But I do know, I would stay as far away as I could from Authentic Genetics and other pollen chuckers of his ilk.

You're Dead wrong with staying away from Todds seed.

Greg himself will tell you he has the real deal. He open polinated what Greg gave him to try to keep the line open for others to select from.

And i see many good pics from his seed.

When the men who's directly involved with giving these seeds to Neville is backing him 100%, that's where im going

 

[CharlesU Farley]

You're Dead wrong with staying away from Todds seed.

Greg himself will tell you he has the real deal. He open polinated what Greg gave him to try to keep the line open for others to select from.

And i see many good pics from his seed.

When the men who's directly involved with giving these seeds to Neville is backing him 100%, that's where im going

I obviously disagree. Maybe you think this pic from his website is indicative of the so-called Purest Indica, I know for an absolute _fact_ that is not. Look at the leaf structure, that is a hybrid plant, not a Type1/Indica:

For Boomers, by Boomers, for Money.

Other than slinging seeds of questionable provenance and chunking pollen for whatever trendy combo he thinks he can sell, he has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with real, genuine NL.

This is definitely OT for this thread, and I won't comment it in on it anymore because there's absolutely nothing Todd McCormick could offer that would be stable and homogeneous.

Actual, numbered versions of NL absolutely, positively do _not_ exist.

The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It

I have previously posted this on another forum and have been reluctant to post it here on ICM, because I feel very passionate about this subject and have a tendency to over-react when anyone attempts to "educate" me on the history of Northern Lights. The post eventually led to me getting kicked...

www.icmag.com

 

[LG/]

I obviously disagree. Maybe you think this pic from his website is indicative of the so-called Purest Indica, I know for an absolute _fact_ that is not. Look at the leaf structure, that is a hybrid plant, not a Type1/Indica:

View attachment 19066740

For Boomers, by Boomers, for Money.

Other than slinging seeds of questionable provenance and chunking pollen for whatever trendy combo he thinks he can sell, he has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with real, genuine NL.

This is definitely OT for this thread, and I won't comment it in on it anymore because there's absolutely nothing Todd McCormick could offer that would be stable and homogeneous.

Actual, numbered versions of NL absolutely, positively do _not_ exist.

The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It

I have previously posted this on another forum and have been reluctant to post it here on ICM, because I feel very passionate about this subject and have a tendency to over-react when anyone attempts to "educate" me on the history of Northern Lights. The post eventually led to me getting kicked...

www.icmag.com

You're Dead wrong with staying away from Todds seed.

Greg himself will tell you he has the real deal. He open polinated what Greg gave him to try to keep the line open for others to select from.

And i see many good pics from his seed.

When the men who's directly involved with giving these seeds to Neville is backing him 100%, that's where im going

Here's what I KNOW for a fact. I ran Purest Indica. The phenos I had were all consistent with low phenotypic variation. Skunk/kush profile, thick indica type buds. 3 different females if I recall correctly. All stayed short. Can't recall what the fan leaves looked like.

I am currently running Original Haze. Even as seedlings the leaves are skinny/narrow. I have high hopes for these.

In this case I could care less about stories, folklore and provenance. What's important to me is the final product, finished flowers.

a rose by any other name, etc etc...

Peace

 

[kro-magnon]

There is different types of leaves on pure indicas not just wide cabbage leaves. I've grown pure Afghan (100% indica) who had pretty slender leaves, using leaves shape to judge the purity level of an indica is a joke, that's not how you can seriously judge a plant.
There is more positive feedbacks from Todd's seeds than other today and at 50$ for 10 seeds that's a fair pricing for today's market who became so crazy.
Please all growers who have made some seeds from Todd give us your feedback and show your results. That's how I evaluate if seeds are worth growing or not, don't take angry boomer's opinion for facts.

 

[EmeraldLegacy]

I have a few of Todd’s seeds going right now and the morphology is correct. Original Haze has some of the thinnest leave I have seen on any Sativa. Similar structure to the Punto Rojo, Corinto, Oaxaca Gold and Sumatra Aceh I am growing out.

 

[EmeraldLegacy]

Here is the Purist Indica.

 

[EmeraldLegacy]

Purist Indica, taken today.

 

[Ankermann]

wow your law are weird, why allowing seeds from EU but not from outside?

Not that I am 100% sure, but it should have to do with importing potentially invasive species. Technically it is not allowed to import any seeds from outside the EU without a permit.

On another note, customs are scanning packages coming from GB/UK quite heavily, especially - surprise, surprise - in Bavaria.
Official customs source in German.

But since all of the (stable) genetics I am interested in can be found in EU I have no problem with that.
And most of the US ones are not available by the original breeders (e.g. Archive SB Do-Si-Dos) or extremely expensive. So I stick to the basic ones.

 

[kro-magnon]

Nice to see you back, what did you finally order for your futur grow?
About invasive species, they could come from countries within the EU now there are 27 countries in the Schengen space, I don't know how they justify such choice but it sounds absurd like too many european laws sadly;
You can get most of the breeders from Alchimia or Lamota, those seedbanks are in Spain and send huge amounts of seeds to many growers in Europe and maybe overseas as well. There is also the option to order from the Dutch seedbanks as they are in Europe as well.
Keep us updated on the progress of your garden.

 

[Guy Brush]

About invasive species, they could come from countries within the EU now there are 27 countries in the Schengen space, I don't know how they justify such choice but it sounds absurd like too many european laws sadly

It's even more weird, that we can't produce and sell them ourselves, although, technically, we're in the EU. This has nothing to do with invasive species. It has everything to do with economics and corruption.

 

[GUY-FAWKES]

Serious happiness was very stable !