Looking for stable/homogeneous seeds from North America (in EU)

[Ankermann]

About keepers it is a matter of taste rather than quality, most of the plants produce high quality buds, [..]. I don't say all seeds will give you clone elite each time but enough quality to be happy and wanting to grow it again.

Sounds super good enough to me.
Keeping plants as mothers is intriguing as well, but for later.

Yeah avoid at all costs. Most of these seeds are made in Spain and no serious Spanish growers buy them. People in Europe eat them up for some reason.

Most of them buy the same bulk seeds that us Spanish growers get for free with our grow shop purchases, but resell them at 10-15 eur a pop.
[...]

It's a very dark industry.

That I have read so many time and is one of the major things I want to avoid. But in the end who guarantees that in the chain plant - seed - breeder - (reseller - ) end consumer nobody messed around and just put some random seeds in there? Hard to filter, certainly good to avoid.

I would stick with well known IBLs. Trainwreck, Romulan, skunk #1 etc. all the new American glamour weed isnt stable at all. Like a box of chocolates....you never know what you're gonna get.

Hmm, I kinda have an aversion towards Skunk #1 which I cannot say why that is. But still, it is the backbone of so many other strains. Northern Lights I find more intriguing, but kind of hard to decide... Sensi allegedly lost so many mother plants and there are reports that NL is not the same anymore.

Anyway, Trainwreck and Romulan were completely off my radar. Would you recommend a specific breeder for these two?

What about Cheese and Chemdog/Chemdawg? Also two very popular and old-ish strains used in many successive strains.
But since they are so mysterious, are they stable and do any breeders have kept the lineage alive and well? Or are these only remotly interesting as a true™ and original© cut?

 

[kro-magnon]

If you want to grow some Chem hybrids go with Top Dawg or karma, they have some crosses with many traits from the Chem but more stable, strain like Star Dawg has many keepers and breeders those use as mothers.

 

[revegeta666]

But in the end who guarantees that in the chain plant - seed - breeder - (reseller - ) end consumer nobody messed around and just put some random seeds in there?

Good question and the answer is "no one". Which is why I never buy seeds from any grow shop either, only directly from the breeder.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

My friend in oregon, has two varieties he made willy butter and king william, ive grown and never found a hermie in 20 plants. yet its 3 kings x williams wonder, and peanut butter traingle x williams wonder. I crossed the 3 kings wth a old school columbian variety grown from clone believed to be blue satellite. good call with what Linde said about sticking with IBL like the romulan, skunk, and true breeding lines. I like alot as well seriouse seeds, they have alot of classic true breeding strains but there not from usa. I grew orginal grand daddy purple from ken estes years back and it seemed very stable as well didnt have any herms and nice ratio of m/f. It'd be cool if you could get ahold of some east coast gems like Piff's Black haze or something special.

 

[Ankermann]

If you want to grow some Chem hybrids go with Top Dawg or karma, they have some crosses with many traits from the Chem but more stable, strain like Star Dawg has many keepers and breeders those use as mothers.

Sadly it seems not possible to get TopDawg Seeds in Germany/EU.
Karma has so many things to consider, often with huge lineage. Not sure what to chose, maybe at random.

Good question and the answer is "no one". Which is why I never buy seeds from any grow shop either, only directly from the breeder.

Haha, if I knew someone. There is no established breeding culture (that I know of!). Only small scale home breeding. But doing maybe ten plants I'd barely selecting, certainly not selective breeding.
The law allows for clubs, kind of similar to Spain but without consuming, which are starting to get licenses.
Dunno how trustworthy all of that will be though.
Privately... yeah I don't know anybody who is breeding as well.

My friend in oregon, has two varieties he made willy butter and king william, ive grown and never found a hermie in 20 plants. yet its 3 kings x williams wonder, and peanut butter traingle x williams wonder. I crossed the 3 kings wth a old school columbian variety grown from clone believed to be blue satellite. good call with what Linde said about sticking with IBL like the romulan, skunk, and true breeding lines. I like alot as well seriouse seeds, they have alot of classic true breeding strains but there not from usa. I grew orginal grand daddy purple from ken estes years back and it seemed very stable as well didnt have any herms and nice ratio of m/f. It'd be cool if you could get ahold of some east coast gems like Piff's Black haze or something special.

Yes, I will go something like AK-47 (Serious Seeds), Skunk #1 (Khalifa, named Aladdin), maybe Northern Lights (dunno which breeder) and White/Black Widow (Mr. Nice?, only reg.) as well.
Kinda hard to find the other "classical" stuff, like Trainwreck (GHS) and Romulan (Pyramid Seeds), if these any breeder or seedbank even carries them. Trying to avoid GreenHouseSeeds and Sensi Seeds.
An for the 2nd (and way longer grow) some ACE seeds.

 

[kro-magnon]

To help you chose a Karma cross, first decide what father or pollen giver you want to try, he works by round where pollen is put over many females soon the same ones.
For a classice white widow in fem seeds you can buy from Old School Genetics, he is on the first list I gave you, he has a Old Widow clone he selfed it. He has a old version of SSH as well whoo look really good

 

[Ankermann]

Oof, what a shame it is not easy to get TopDawg seeds here. Stardawg looks like it might hold quite true to Chemdawg. Most Chemdawg or Sour Diesel descendants have huge diverse family trees...To help you chose a Karma cross, first decide what father or pollen giver you want to try, he works by round where pollen is put over many females soon the same ones.

To help you chose a Karma cross, first decide what father or pollen giver you want to try, he works by round where pollen is put over many females soon the same ones.

For a classice white widow in fem seeds you can buy from Old School Genetics, he is on the first list I gave you, he has a Old Widow clone he selfed it. He has a old version of SSH as well whoo look really good

Ok, I am not used to such "drops" of crosses with a fixed male (or female). Karma and mostly small NA breeders seem to do this. But then I need more knowledge to even probe for a direction I like. I am still young enough to spend that time trying and learning, haha.

Indeed, there is a S1 from OSG and they are in the EU. But I always associate S1 with a higher probability of hermaphrodites.
Mr. Nice allegedly has "the original", though as already mentioned only reg.
Paradise Seeds have an IBL.
Both I've read things all over the place, from good performing, more "sativa" like growth than many other instances of WW/BW to very subpar to other genetics.

And then there is the White Widow fem. by De Sjamaan, who should be involved as (one of the original) breeder(s)?
Man, growing mythology and gossip is really hard to follow and get the full picture or pick a side.

White Widow is an absolute classic in my opinion, but with such a chaos, not high on the list for me anymore.

 

[kro-magnon]

Seeds marketing prefers create some nice stories, kind of "myths" around the seeds rather than telling what they really are who would certainly be boring for most people. Old strains from the legal era of seeds production in the Netherlends are the shadow of themselves because the first parents were lost because of police raids, S1 are not more prone to produce hermi than any seeds.About WW I would not buy a pack from Mr Nice the plants are not of consistent quality at all today. Just choose a pack of seeds from reputable seed producers and you're sure to be happy with your hatvest. Most important buy a pack from someone who really produce them himself and not like most old seedbanks who outsource their seeds production.

 

[Lester Beans]

If I could only grow 6 plants I would..that's tough..I would need variety. I would want to know the seeds I germinated would be a plant like the strain description. So I would grow 6 different plants aiming for at least 4oz a plant to get me through to next harvest. So pick 1 fem seed that I'm confident is going to be what I expect. Damn that's tough. Here goes..

C99 ~ Hazeman or Kwik seeds. This will be the first plant I harvest and my daytime happy energy effect. Flower time around 50-55 days.

White Russian ~ Serious seeds. Plants are like clones. Huge yield. Sledgehammer indica leaning hybrid effect. Frosty, dense, 63 days

Purple Urkle x Triangle Kush 5150 ~ CSI Humboldt. Color, frost, fruity gas, potent. Caleb says they are all keepers. 63-70 days

Sowah ~ Karma. I have not seen a bad plant or heard a bad thing about this line. Gotta have some Sour D.

GSC/GG4/OG Kush ~ CSI Humboldt you would have to do research and see what tickles your fancy.
Me personally I'd go with Tony Greens Gorilla Bubble but not sure you can get that over there.

Last strain would be something from Ace seeds. Long flowering sativa. Lots to choose from.

That is enough old and new with good variety and I'd be stoked with those 6 jars.

 

[kro-magnon]

If I could only grow 6 plants I would..that's tough..I would need variety. I would want to know the seeds I germinated would be a plant like the strain description. So I would grow 6 different plants aiming for at least 4oz a plant to get me through to next harvest. So pick 1 fem seed that I'm confident is going to be what I expect. Damn that's tough. Here goes..

C99 ~ Hazeman or Kwik seeds. This will be the first plant I harvest and my daytime happy energy effect. Flower time around 50-55 days.

White Russian ~ Serious seeds. Plants are like clones. Huge yield. Sledgehammer indica leaning hybrid effect. Frosty, dense, 63 days

Purple Urkle x Triangle Kush 5150 ~ CSI Humboldt. Color, frost, fruity gas, potent. Caleb says they are all keepers. 63-70 days

Sowah ~ Karma. I have not seen a bad plant or heard a bad thing about this line. Gotta have some Sour D.

GSC/GG4/OG Kush ~ CSI Humboldt you would have to do research and see what tickles your fancy.
Me personally I'd go with Tony Greens Gorilla Bubble but not sure you can get that over there.

Last strain would be something from Ace seeds. Long flowering sativa. Lots to choose from.

That is enough old and new with good variety and I'd be stoked with those 6 jars.

That's a pretty solid selection. but OP prefers some fem seeds, I think the C99 from Kwik or Hazeman are regular seeds same for Sowahh. He could use instead Old School Genetics SSH98, a fast version of this famous sativa;
And instead of Sowahh he could grow Mop Choper from Karma, it's a fem cross of Mule Fuel and Biker Kush; the other you listed are available in fem seeds.

 

[Lester Beans]

That's a pretty solid selection. but OP prefers some fem seeds, I think the C99 from Kwik or Hazeman are regular seeds same for Sowahh. He could use instead Old School Genetics SSH98, a fast version of this famous sativa;
And instead of Sowahh he could grow Mop Choper from Karma, it's a fem cross of Mule Fuel and Biker Kush; the other you listed are available in fem seeds.

Extremely valid point lol

Female seeds C99 and Sour Ripper then. I give up it's nearly impossible to fill that criteria.

 

[Guy Brush]

Grow Chemdog/Sour Diesel family if you like unpleasant smells, lol. I am telling you from experience the chem family and everything related is not made for the European palate. Smelly feet, old socks, bad breath, motor oil, onion, fuel, locker room, skunk spray etc... You've been warned.

 

[kro-magnon]

Grow Chemdog/Sour Diesel family if you like unpleasant smells, lol. I am telling you from experience the chem family and everything related is not made for the European palate. Smelly feet, old socks, bad breath, motor oil, onion, fuel, locker room, skunk spray etc... You've been warned.

You have not grown the Karma version of HeadBanger and Sowahh because the smells and taste are not offensive at all and I'm French, I like sweet smelling buds and those crosses have a very attractive smell/taste for me and everyone around me, they can't get enough of my Sowahh buds lately.

 

[cbotany]

Hi everyone!

Edit: I am looking for genetics, that don't exist. Weakening the questions:

• Which strains by which breeder are recommended for a small scale (6 plants) indoor grow at home;
• Is pheno hunting a necessity in this setting;
• is there any breeder that stabilizes their post-2000 genetics against herming and/or reducing variability?

Or more openly: If you had to start over with such a small grow, what breeder and strain would you chose and why?
Sadly this questions get so generic that it starts to resemble every what is your favorite breeder question at this point.

Original post starting from here:

TL;DR at the bottom.
Fellow grower from Germany here.
Since the legalization I want to begin growing indoors and am looking for strains to start.
Germans seem to be more conservative and mostly prefer classical/old strains while the NA folks swim in 'their' genetics.
I want to dip my toes into both philosophies and try some classic as well as modern North American strains.
Since I am not trusting cuts around here I will have to work with seeds. I am limited to a maximum of six plants, so pheno as well as sex hunting is something I really want to avoid.
What I am looking for, listed by decreasing priority:

1. Homogeneous seeds, i.e. plants from seeds do not differ by much. If multiple phenotypes exist, it should be few and every pheno should be worth growing out and harvesting;
2. tendency of herming as low as possible;
3. available in the EU (e.g. via reputable reseller) - seeds found at the EU border can (and if found will) be seized;
4. preference for "the" original breeder of a strain or small breeders in general;
5. feminized seeds over regular ones, no auto.

Can you point in the direction of such breeders and if possible, also specific strains?

Since I tend to write extensive questions/posts, additional information, questions and "thinking aloud" are packed into the spoilers below.

Spoiler: My plan regarding growing (space, medium, form of consumption). Experience with growing so far.

Starting end of September I want to try out multiple strains (two to four) the first and maybe second grow as well.
Limited by law to six plants at home.
Growing space will be quite small, roughly around 10 ft² / 1 m² (4 ft x 2.5 ft / 120 cm x 80 cm).
The first grow(s) will be on soil and later I would like to switch to DWC.
If falling in love with a strain, keeping a mother plant is an option for future grows.
Ice hash or maybe even pressing rosin would be the ultimate goal, but with such a small growing space I am not sure if that would be even worth it. For flower I use a Tinymight.

My experience with indoor grown cannabis has been only medical cannabis so far, which, at least to me, is all the same with different names and price tags. They all get me high but the high as well as the taste does not differ by much, if at all.
I have grown outdoor (guerrilla, more than 10 years ago), so I know how sturdy cannabis grows outside in an unconstricted space. There the quality was all over the place and so was the taste as well as the high. Strains were a quite ordinary selection (off the top of my head: KC33, Mango, Frisian Dew, Hollands Hope, Mandala #1, Pure Power Plant).

Spoiler: Breeders and strains that caught my eye and questions about them.

First, the classical strains:
AK47 by Serious Seeds and Black Widow (only reg.?) by Mr Nice Seeds. Both strains (as well as breeders) are considered stable and homogeneous in Germany. Are these all time classics or living off of their big names?
Mandala (Satori fem.) and ACE Seeds (Golden Tiger fem.) are also considered well selected and stabilized true F1 hybrids around here.
Kwik Seeds has a C99, called Cindy 99, which is "the result of recombining two pure, parallel Cinderella 99 lines using a total of 18 parent plants.". Wappa by Paradise Seeds is a classic in a german-speaking forum.
Karma Genetics as well as Connoisseur Genetics (SSSDH, El Valle Haze, Permafunk, Gulupa) are looking fine as well.

Now, the NA genetics:
When I looked for breeders satisfying (some, if not most of) my requirements, the following names popped up: Archive Seed Bank and CSI Humboldt.
Any individual strains that might be especially fitting to my needs and wants?
What about

• Dark Horse Genetics (Bruce Banner (#3));
• Rare Dankness (Ghost Train Haze #1);
• Blueberry Cupcake/Muffin/Pancakes and PPD by Humboldt Seed Company;
• Ethos (besides the drama)?

Sadly, a lot of these strains are hard or impossible to get by. Mostly sold out or via sketchy resellers, if they ever were available inside the EU to begin with.

As promised tl; dr
Growing indoor in a small space, 10 ft² / 1 m².
Growing from seed, no pheno hunting, ideally feminized seeds.
Looking for (NA) breeders and strains with homogeneous seeds, low herm rate, available in EU, original or small breeder preferred.

I appreciate any input, thanks for the help!
Ankermann

Hey man, If i wanted to grow "weed" Like non medical cannabis under these parameters I'd buy fat yeti from hoku seeds, I'd drop a link if i was allowed, yeild, flowering, american, small breeder, and non hermi. But everyone is going to say something different man. So much good gear is available around the usa. A second go to would be brothers grimm. I don't really grow alot of "non medical" Because of what I like to smoke.... but buddy, us yanks have the best og kush in the world. Also, People stop dog piling on the spanish breeders, some of them where the nicest people when i first started growning.... Just my two cents.

 

[cbotany]

I'll go into a bit more detail as to why I said what I said.

Everything in the US that's coming out is either some sort of cookies or Zkittles hybrid.

These lines are notorious for instability. No one has worked them into a place where it is sexually stable.

I would take a swing at CSI Humboldts gear. Good breeding practices and solid lines.

But remember you always run the risk of getting intersex plants no matter where you source your seeds from.

Dude, I know very few breeders that are running skittles..... we have more genetic diversity than any other country in the world as a breeder base.... I don't know where you're buying seeds but none of my friends are running that..... Most of what I see lately is experimenting with landraces, as well as digging into ogs, and alternative cannabis but I might also be in a microcosm

 

[linde]

Sounds super good enough to me.
Keeping plants as mothers is intriguing as well, but for later.


That I have read so many time and is one of the major things I want to avoid. But in the end who guarantees that in the chain plant - seed - breeder - (reseller - ) end consumer nobody messed around and just put some random seeds in there? Hard to filter, certainly good to avoid.


Hmm, I kinda have an aversion towards Skunk #1 which I cannot say why that is. But still, it is the backbone of so many other strains. Northern Lights I find more intriguing, but kind of hard to decide... Sensi allegedly lost so many mother plants and there are reports that NL is not the same anymore.

Anyway, Trainwreck and Romulan were completely off my radar. Would you recommend a specific breeder for these two?

What about Cheese and Chemdog/Chemdawg? Also two very popular and old-ish strains used in many successive strains.
But since they are so mysterious, are they stable and do any breeders have kept the lineage alive and well? Or are these only remotly interesting as a true™ and original© cut?

I would go with Twenty20 Mendocino for the Trainwreck. Next Generation for the Romulan. NG is from Canada but ships to USA no problem. Yes Chemdog sounds great if u can get legit stuff. Or even a Sour Diesel. Shoreline Genetics sells a ECSD that is supposed to be killer.

 

[linde]

Also for skunk I've bought the Shoreline BX. Haven't grown it out yet but supposed to be an old school stable roadkill skunk BX. From Shoreline Genetics

 

[kro-magnon]

About Karma's drops, he has a collection of mothers and each time he is doing seeds all of them are pollinated with the pollen from the male or transformed female. As he knows his females very well when the seeds are grown for trial he can see what is brought by the pollen, he can judge if the progeny is better than the mother or not, if it's better the seeds are sold if not he doesn't release them. You can see a lot of test grows of his genetics, it's one of the rare who is so open about his breeding pratiques and seeds tests, all info are available and if you have questions he will answers them on his thread.

 

[Lester Beans]

Grow Chemdog/Sour Diesel family if you like unpleasant smells, lol. I am telling you from experience the chem family and everything related is not made for the European palate. Smelly feet, old socks, bad breath, motor oil, onion, fuel, locker room, skunk spray etc... You've been warned.

I am not a chem fan as I don't like weed that has a halitosis terp profile.

ECSD is more sour and gassy than chem funky but it is in there. I love the Sour though. Smoking it right now in fact.

 

[Guy Brush]

You both may be right, the Sour Diesel I smoked in Amsterdam had a nice taste and gave a sour sensation in the mouth. But I've also had crosses of it that had too much of the bad stank.