Looking for guerillas with leaf spot diease experience.

[D.S. Toker. MD]

well xare, Im sure open to ideas, but that aint the first casualty ive had this year. or last year either for that matter. Im not sure why you think its root rot, but let me give you some more of the facts that im lookin at.

The condition starts with round spots on some of the largest leaves, as the spots spread, the leaf yellows and falls from the plant and spots begin to appear on surrounding large leaves and as the spots multiply, the leaves yellow and die. That continues until all of the large leaves are gone and by then its appearing on secondary leaves. This describes a 2 week period. This condition seems to be on the trees and many other native species in my enviroment. Their leaves have the same spots and fall off just as they do on the cannabis.

These plants arent planted in the same soil. They are spread over 8 sites miles apart in very different types of soil from black rich loam to high clay content soil. Plants in each location have the spots.

Weve practically been in drought with temps for 95-100 nearly every day. Soil temps are in the 80's. Can roots rot under those conditions?

All plants dont respond the same. The blue hash plants seem unaffected at any site. Sensi star doesnt seem to have it. Standing right next to it can be a white widow or biddy early thats seemingly covered with it with every leaf yellowing. Further, the biddy early seems highly sensitive. It has branches wilt, or the whole plant will wilt, regaurdless of the site. I have biddy earlys wilting at 6 different sites miles apart. The white widow gets the condition but it doesnt wilt, it just doesnt seem to progress any. The buds dont grow and the plants look yellow all over.

Ill piss on them if it would help. After hearing those facts do you still think its a root fungus? If so, what should i pour on them? Ill pull up the plant in the picture above and take a pic of the roots if you want to see them.

Ive got 12 of these girls and every lower leaf is spotted and falling off. Ive got a few weeks to figure it out.

 

[Dorje113]

D.S. Toker, those plants are dying from a soil borne root infection not a Foliar disease.

They needed a soil drench with a Fungicide to prevent root rot, not a foliar applicated fungicide like greencure or copper spray.

To fight these kind of infections effectively you have to be able to diagnose them correctly.

All that wilting you see happening overnight is because fungal slime like pythium or fusariam are building up on the roots and suffocating it.

Dig up the roots to one of those infected plants and you will be able to find it. You may even notice a dead rotting plant death smell. Get your nose down by the roots and sniff.

Yup.

I agree wilting like that is a rot in the main stem or roots. A friend got some black stem rot that has killed a couple plants randomly, it's a water borne fungus that he introduced by not cleaning out the buckets he mixed his nutes in. It occured right at the bas of the plants. Either that or in the roots like Xare mentioned....

The leaf fungus will defoliate the plant but shouldn't cause wilting like that.

 

[Dorje113]

Ive got 12 of these girls and every lower leaf is spotted and falling off. Ive got a few weeks to figure it out.

The fungi could spread to the roots, which would lead to the wilting..... but it's usually a different species of fungus. For the plant to wilt like that, there has to be damage to the plants water uptake system, either in the main stem or roots.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Dorje113, the water uptake system isnt the only reason for a plant to wilt and die. Disease can make them wilt, and even borers.

In this instance, not all plants respond the same way. Most of the plants do defoliate progressively, but it seems to effect the plants differnetly, in this case only biddy early has wilted and died. The others wont ever wilt really,

 

[Xare]

More then one type of infection can make things confusing.

And when a plant is weakened by one disease it makes it more susceptible to further infections. Its immunity is down.

On top of that breakouts occur around the same time of year. The spores that give rise to these infections are everywhere and because they are a living thing they are driven by the need to reproduce not just the environmental conditions.


Treat all outdoor plants as if they are in danger of infection.

To protect our entire plants we have to proceed with a two pronged attack. Foliar Fungicide sprays to keep the fungus and mold off the leaf as well as a soil drench of the root zone to fight the diseases that live there.

As an organic grower I like to use Biologicals to inoculate my rhizosphere, but I know you are a chemical grower D.S. so you may want to use something like Physan 20 when you water.

This year I left a few plants in different locations with no defenses. They get spots and the bottom leaves start to yellow and fall off then it spreads up the entire plant. But then right next to it there will be a healthy plant that fought off the diseases.

My main plot however has been inoculated and sprayed on a regular basis all year. So they have a better defense.

 

[ronbo51]

I'm with the Doc on this one. That liquid copper is OMRI listed and it will work. The question is whether the plants can be saved. They are about to use huge resources trying to fruit and with a compromised photosynthesis system at best yields will suffer. But if you can save the little darlings then you know you will be armed for next year with something that works. Good luck.

 

[Xare]

Copper will accumulate in the soil and can harm plants so dont use it as a Soil Drench around the rootzone.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

ronbo1 and others, i have news. On monday, i went and completely drenched a plant that was 4 weeks into flower with a solution of 1oz per gallon of Lcopper. I picked off the yellowed leaves so i could tell if more yellowing occurred. Just a few minutes ago i checked the plant and i have no more yellow leaves, but even more importantly, the plant looks better, healthier. I believe the fungus was stopped in its tracks.

On Tuesday before spraying other plants, i inspected the flowering plant sprayed on Monday to see if there was any damage to the hairs/flfowers or the plant in general. I saw no flower/hair discoloration or any sign of negativity at all, so i drenched 4 whit widows that were also in flower. This morning there is no hair/flower discoloration and it appears just as it did on the plant sprayed monday, that the plants are in better shape.

The Liquid Copper seems to stop the disease on contact and in 3 days, i have no other leaves yellowing..

Straintesterr: my wife says nothing would stick around in the vicinity of those socks! I may hang one from each plant.

ghost of sage: Water curing a must? Well, theres no good answer to your question. Let me give you the facts. Studies indicate that no residue can be detected upon the plant 14 days after the last application, regaurdless of how many applications have been made. I used data taken from tests on cabbage, lettuce, cauliflower and brocolli because these are plants that the sprayed leaves are eaten.

That said, liquid copper is a heavy metal and i dont trust their test/results. Because of the potential for toxicity, i'll be watercuring my bud even though i wont use the product in more than 30 days from harvest. I keep in mind that Greencure is supposedly not present after rain or 14 days, but any weed i treat with it taste metallicy and makes me cough, so i water cure that bud as well.

In my case however, its either liquid copper and watercuring or not have any bud at all.

 

[ghost of sage]

I went by the light of the moon last night because the birds are flying and sprayed all of mine with the liquid copper.I only mixed it at 3 table spoons to a gallon of water as that was one of the heaviest applications in the instruction book.I could not really see what I was doing as the moon does not give off a lot of light in a forest but i believe I coated them pretty well.I will prolly go back next week and hit them again but do it with my big sprayer instead of the hand sprayer and see how they look.I sprayed almost 3/4 of a gallon onto5 big plants so maybe i got them good enough.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

I hear you on the big sprayer ghost. This hand held 1/2 gallon sprayer is working me to death!

Im using 2 tablespoons per/gall, but 3 should be fine as i havent seen any negative effects on any strain. Ive just gotten home from blasting nearly every plant ive got. It takes a lot of spray and trying to do both sides of the leaves is a tough haul, but im getting it. Im doing a before and after ghost. (i wish i knew how to make these pics smaller)


Here's a GHwhite widow with the fungus. All of the yellow leaves are hard to see but its covered with them

Another pic of the yellowing leaves.

Here it is after ive picked off the yellow leaves and drenched it in liquid copper spray. Ill post a pick in a week to see if there are any additional yellow leaves.

 

[straintester]

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[hamstring]

Seeing the pics in the book I had leaf Septoria on one of my plants (indoors).

Serenade stinks but has held it at bay with one application. Going to do a 2nd 7 days later.

Hey brother indoor not trying to persuade you from not treating for leaf spot as I think there are some fairly safe fungicides but in my opinion it very unlikely because this fungus is more of an outdoor condition. It breeds in hot humid conditions and usually needs to breed in some sort of heavy leaf litter. I have been growing in my spot for several years and I have 6 foot grass surrounding each and every plant and that alone doesn’t make the disease become epidemic it still takes flooding to cause moisture to be held in the undergrowth giving the perfect environment for this to happen.

That being said I am no expert but I wouldn’t start at leaf spot I would end there after looking at all other possible causes.

 

[hamstring]

Will neem oil do any good with the leaf spot? If so, then how often can we spray? Are their any low cost treatments for this as we are on a fixed disability income?
Thanks so much for this thread, we had posted pics asking for help but the pics from the book are exactly what's wrong with our poor little girls Brand new 1st time outdoor grow.
The info on this thread is invaluable


Peace, Love, and Harmony

That’s the shit guerrilla I know it anywhere.

Now if it stays dry outside then the spots will not grow much larger but if rainy humid condition appear look out you have a pretty heavy case by the looks of those leaves.
Only opinion but neam oil would be like pissing on a forest fire. Spray with Green cure or serenade. I think if your conditions stay dry all should work if they get wet then all bets are off maybe like DS said the liquid cooper is the way to go.

 

[hamstring]

I suppose thats why the socks were hanging outside
Its great that you got the results you wanted here. With the look of how bad you had it I can't blame you for wanting to use something like this or any other doing any type of guerilla gardening.
Being that I am a organic grower this isn't something I would personally use; not only just because it is toxic but also because it can be damaging to the plant and everything else around it.
The problem with using toxic and poisonous products even if they are not lethal to us is they also effect the environment in a negative way. Although some of these products may control specific pests and diseases, they also play havoc to the plays immune system. Many of the sprays clog the plant pores and disturb the plants ability to photosynthesize properly.
Products like Sevin and other harmful pesticides might instantly do a great job at first but because insects and bacteria have such a short life span , mutations in these very pests are greatly increased making the need for stronger and stronger remedies for all growers alike.

Its the same as going to a doctor for a virus and being given an antibiotic. Sure it kills off the bad bacteria but it also kills off all the good bacteria leaving the body's immune system jeopardized. It also creates stronger viruses that are resistant to that particular drug so something NEW has to be used or chemo being used to kill of cancerous cells but yet it is so deadly that it practically kills the human also. Some people going through chemo kill actually smell it in their body , it is that powerful.

Even though neem oil wouldn't be suggested for problems as bad as we have seen here, I just want to add something to all the neem nayers.
Neem oil is to be used mainly as a preventative source rather than a remedy. It protects plants from fungas by disrupting the organisms metabolism, forms a barrier between the plant and the fungus, and also inhibits spore germination.
It has both fungicidal and pesticidal properties It degrades rapidly so is safe for the environment including non target species and beneficial insects.
It is an effective killer of ants, aphids, fungus gnats, grey mold, septoria and powdery mildew. Of course if you have a serious infestation of any of these then you are best to use something else.

I've personally used neem oil both indoors and out with excellent results and would recommentd it to use before you have any problems. It does take a lot more work and is something you have to keep up with doing throughout the entire grow stage minus a few weeks but it is completely safe to use for our plants and the environment.
Since outdoor growing does depend on a balance of nature, using the most gentle approach is the most beneficial for all, so i am all for the use of neem oil.
There are both pros and cons to outdoors growing. Pests and diseases sure are one of the downfalls BUT we can use nature to our advantage also since we have the UV light from the suns rays,(helps clear up some fungus) wind for extra air circulation as well as predatorial insects. Using harsh chemicals has an impact on all of these things so that each year stronger and stronger pesticides are needed.

I hope this doesn't upset anyone as it is just an opinion and you know what they say about those...lol
Nor am I saying that this copper product is toxic and harmful to the environment
Some antifungal products are harmful ONLY to the specific organism

Your plants are looking MUCH healthier D.S. Toker
Good job

No argument about preventative but think you also agree we are talking 20/20 hindsight here. If we all knew it was going to happen (in my case I had it last year so shame on me) we could have taken your advice but most have never seen it and even if they did couldn’t ID it if they came here looking for an answer.

You advise is very sound I mean that just not as valuable in most of these cases. Next season take heed.

 

[whodair]

im a guerilla, and ive got spots ...

im a guerilla, and ive got spots ...

one branch got bad and the buds forming turned black, i chopped the limb...

bottoms worse than top, luckily !!

 

[straintester]

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[ghost of sage]

Hey DS I am wondering since this stuff lies dormant thru the winter and is always in the same spot if I was to carry in a roll of black plastic and cover my spot like a flower bed and only cut out the spots where my holes are dug if that would keep it at bay or kill the ground it is on.I would of course have to cover the plastic with cover but a good spot to grow is so hard to find guerilla style with all day sun in the woods!

 

[hamstring]

Ghost
Hey Guerrilla if your site looks anything like mine every piece of vegetation is covered with this shit. I think it would absolutely help and should be job 1 for next season (It will be for me) but this shit is in a 10 square mile radius in my area so it will not completely get rid of it because the spores are release3d in early spring and carried on the wind. Your second best bet is to also spray you seedling as soon as they hit the ground and to repeat every 2 weeks or if it rains. My 2 cents after all my research anyways.

 

[hamstring]

Yes I agree with you completely.
The main reason why I wrote what I did was for anyone else who might not have this type of disease quite as bad. In my case I did not need to go to such drastic measures and there might be others who may not need to either.
It looks like whodair's case isn't as bad and neem oil would keep this in check and stop it from spreading successfully as it did with mine.
I also realize that this is your thread AND that you were and are looking for suggestion for guerilla gardening specifically but there may be other types of gardeners out there who might have this and it would be a shame if they used something stronger than they needed to and suppressed the plants immunity needlessly.
It really wasn't meant as a criticism but more as food for thought and to give others more options.
For guerilla gardening and bad infestations I DO understand it isn't that helpful and apologize if it rubbed anyone the wrong way.

Come on brother, no way. NO APOLIGIES NEEDED I just meant neam oil isn’t the answer in this case, meaning this thread but the comments are welcomed and its damn good advice.

I think the fault lies with my response but as one of my mentors (Julian) put it. “This is to damn important to get things wrong.” What I mean by that is no way a back yard grower is going to see the levels of this disease that a guerrilla will. Every year in my area of the bush has 6-foot tall grasses and nettles, native flowers etc die back. This happens year after year making literately tons of dead undergrowth in miles of area.

So you can imagine the amount of moisture this holds in. That’s not taking into account that the new season vegatation is now shading all this shit making it worse. I can go out in 90 deg weather in July/august pull back the dead vegetation and my native soil is damp no joke. Now that’s always been my allies but with this disease its bad news.

Now that’s just not the case with my lawn its not even close so although I may see some of the same diseases they will never be as severe.
Now I cant say for sure, have zero proof, but I’m just not going to use neam oil in the bush because I cant afford to make a mistake because the average guerrilla doesn’t get back to his site for 2-3 weeks where as the backyard grower can check everyday to see if the neam oil is working and then make changes if it isn’t.

It sucks but at least for me I have to use the 30lb sledgehammer even though I may only need the 2 oz tack hammer because I have the one chance to hit the nail on the head.

No animosity what so ever but repeating what Julian would always say “Too damn important to get wrong”. Not that he would agree with me at all he he he love the guy.

Julian love to hear you thoughts where you at????

 

[Dorje113]

Hey brother indoor not trying to persuade you from not treating for leaf spot as I think there are some fairly safe fungicides but in my opinion it very unlikely because this fungus is more of an outdoor condition. It breeds in hot humid conditions and usually needs to breed in some sort of heavy leaf litter. I have been growing in my spot for several years and I have 6 foot grass surrounding each and every plant and that alone doesn’t make the disease become epidemic it still takes flooding to cause moisture to be held in the undergrowth giving the perfect environment for this to happen.

That being said I am no expert but I wouldn’t start at leaf spot I would end there after looking at all other possible causes.

Yeah, I wish it wasn't but I think it is.

This came from a place that wasn't kept so clean, I think his mess caused the outbreak. I have 3 plants from this place and only 1 has this problem.

So check the photos, looks just like Leaf Septoria shown in the book above.

I thought Serenade took care of it but it looks like I'll have to apply it with greater frequency, I'll try every 3 days 3 times... god that shit stinks, maybe someone has a better cure???