Looking for guerillas with leaf spot diease experience.

[StrapAssassin42]

Thanks for the advice.... like others in this thread im pretty much done with the widow.
I plan to harvest the widows at 45 days because they hermed on me. I believe from the stress of the infection.
D.S. Toker has me concerned because i have a dozen widows to go outside too...
Hey D. S. is ther a reason you plan to switch from L copper to Greencure late in the summer?
I also have spider mites ive been dealing with for some time...Went thru 4 oz of Aza max and still have them...got some Forbid on the way to fix that but...
What do i spray first? the fungicide or forbid? How long do I wait in between?
I also plan to use neem after these sprays to hopefully prevent further infection...good idea or waste of time?
Einstien oil or generic?
thanks again for any advice

 

[TokerOftheSouth]

D.SDo you mix the GC with the Lcopper? also how often do you use it during veg?


You wont grow anymore strains after growing SS Tos. It is also the only strain ive grown that shows good resistance to the blight. The only plants i had that didnt get the disease were sensi stars. Only when a star was surrounded by other plants that were infected would it get the disease but even then it didnt destroy the plant. That's in comparison to hashplant that was as dead as a doornail 2 weeks after it got the infection and nothing i sprayed on it helped.

No. I dont mix them. Ill be using the Liquid Copper from June 15 until Aug1. Mid june until mid august is the primary period of time when the disease is most prevalent and LC is very effective at preventing it. Form Aug1 forward it willl be Greencure. its less toxic than the LC and the disease is less viralent by mid Aug. Both products create an enviroment on the leaf surface that isnt conducive to the disease's development. But both products are ONLY effective as preventative applications. The disease can be prevented but once the plant is infected its impossible to kill or cure the plants. Prevention is the only treatment.

From June 15, ill treat after every rain or every 12 days. Same for the GC

TY D.S...I am supper stoked about the SS...I will plan to do the same method and prevent this from happening

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Man thanks guys for the responses. First of all I used green cure last year and I think I was able to save roughly 75% of my plants but they had less leaves and therefore less yield I probably got 3/4 - 1/2 the yield I normally would have had.


Last thing is that from what I have read the spores release early-mid spring and don’t show any signs until around August 1st and that rings true in my case.

the effort.

hamsting i have a couple of questions:

1. did you apply the GreenCure before plants contracted the fungus or after?

2. " Last thing is that from what I have read the spores release early-mid spring and don’t show any signs until around August 1st".
With that in mind, how early do you think spraying should begin?

We've had rain nearly every day in May and now its fired up to 90 degrees. Even though most of my plants are only knee high, im tempted to begin applications.

 

[hamstring]

DS
Hey my guerilla brother I think my comment was uninformed or uneducated because after dealing with this crud for 3 years, the first being mild, I have seen what others have commented on that later in the fall LS seems to slow down and any plant that has made it to that point does well or at least ok. Many others have commented on this phenomenon that once Sept. rolls around they see less problems.

I would also like to point out that I may be seeing disease resistant plants or maybe the Green Cure was a preventative for some of the plants that hadn’t caught full blow LS I really don’t have a clue but I do know that after the initial devastation (2-4 weeks) the plants seem to take a turn for the better.
I don’t keep good enough data to say July-August was very wet or hot and humid the last 3 years I just know that’s when you see the worst break outs.

DS I don’t really have a complete understanding of the exact environmental conditions that provide the perfect climate for this shit to explode and I would be guessing if I said otherwise. It’s nice to have so many others to compare notes and work towards a solution.

It will be LC for me starting in mid July until at least 1st week of August and this will be my first year trying the preventative method and I am hoping for the best.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Me either hamstring.

Although i do try to keep some records because if you dont, youre always trying to remember exactly what you did 3 yrs ago. Here is what my records say.

2008 First infection wasGHs himalayan Gold and i first noticed the disease on July 7. The GH plant was dead by july 25.. By August 10, every plant i had was infected and they responded in different ways. Some died quickly, some plants stopped maturing and defoliated and others continued to mature but very slowly and never completely finished.

2009: Gh white widow was the first plant to become infected and i first noticed yellowing leaves in early July. By late july it was dropping leaves and by Aug 1, nearly all plants had the disease. I started spraying with GC. It seemed to keep the plants from dying but they didnt mature properly and yeild was reduced by more than 1/2

2010. First yellowing leaves seen July 5. Nearby plants started showing spots and yellowing leaves by late July. My first post in this thread was Aug 13, and i had come to the realization that nearly every plant was infected by that date. By mid august, i was spraying LC which did have a significant impact on the disease and did let many of the plants fully mature. In most strains, the LC seemed very effect.


June 1-July 1= Greencure weekly or after rains.
July 1 - Aug 15= Liquid copper weekly or after rains
Aug 15- early sept: Greencure doses.

Im tellin you, sometimes i can be just dumber than hell. Right there in my notes is the evidence that starting early is the key but i didnt notice it really until this year.

 

[darkstar12]

So is there a consensus on the best PROVEN preventative treatment? Green cure, Serenade, Liquid copper?

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

So is there a consensus on the best PROVEN preventative treatment? Green cure, Serenade, Liquid copper?

Certainly the Liquid Copper is effective darkstar. The Greencure is too, but perhaps slightly less than the LC. Both GC and LC create an enviroment on the leaf surface that prevents blight/pm and others from infecting the plant.

Serenade, Actinovate and similar formulations are different. They actually consiste of live bacteria which attack and kill the blight/fungus bacteria that damage our plants.

Its recommended to use one approach or the other, but not mixing the 2 approaches. For example, if i sprayed my plants with Serenade this week and then LCopper next week, the LC would kill any of the beneficial bacteria created by the serenade.

Because it is also strongly recommended to change treatments periodically because the fungus is so capable of becomming resistant, you can use serenade and Actinovate, or you can use Lcopper and Green cure.

Pricing and availability is why i have gone with the LC. The biological treatments are considerably more expensive, plus, I can run to lowe's and buy either LC or GC whereas serenade and Actinovate arent available in stores here so i would have to order it from the internet.

I know for a fact that the LC is highly effective so im sticking with it.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

D.S.,
Have you ever seen any negative side effects from either Gc or Lc?
I just sprayed my indoor girls with Gc...3 weeks into flowering... and now im seeing early maturing of pistols... especially on the most infected plant...

Is there anyway this can be related or did i just get too carried away with my phosphorus?
I've seen this before but not this bad...
I appreciate your input.

 

[hamstring]

Strap
I know DS can answer this better and i hope he chimes in but mix your GC 3/4 strength because it can cause some burning of the pistols if you mix it too strong. 3/4 strength and i have never seen this happen outdoors anyway.

 

[ijim]

Fire used to be natures way of cleaning forest and fields of diseased growth and pathogens.
Is anybody with this problem able to burn off their patches in the fall? Might be worth a try. Is this found in areas with long harsh winter or moderate and warm climates. This disease looks terrible and a real heart breaker. I feel blessed that I have thousands of acres available to deal with and my plants have grown tolerant to local problems after 30 years.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

D.S.,
Have you ever seen any negative side effects from either Gc or Lc?
I just sprayed my indoor girls with Gc...3 weeks into flowering... and now im seeing early maturing of pistols... especially on the most infected plant...
appreciate your input.

hamstings' advice is right on target. If i use 2tbls per gallon, it turns the hairs brown. I use 1-3/4 tbls and it almost discolors the hairs but not bad. 1.5 shouldnt discolor and i know 1tbls wont turn the hairs.

The color change in the hairs is not harmful and the plant continues to build bud but i dont like it anyway. I dont want my white hairs turn brown. The lighter mixture causes me to apply it more often. I will spray it every week rain or shine and after every rain,

I havent noticed any negative side effects from the Lcopper on the plant and i know it sounds crazy, but i honestly observed a significant increase in the plants vigor with the application of LC. I initially sprayed one plant with LC for a test and observed it over the next few days for damaged from the spray and i was shocked to observe just the opposite: The plant looked healthier and greener than it ever had and healthier than any of my other plants.

That effect has puzzled me. It makes me wonder. Tobacco is widely grown around here and the yield from a tobacco crop is nearly doubled if the grower applies fungicides such as acrobat. If 2 fields of tobacco are grown side by side, the untreated crop will grow to 4'. Next door the treated crop will grow to 6', be much healthier looking and yield much more tobacco per acre. There are funguses and moulds that grow on tobacco plants that dont kill it, but they do inhibit its potential for maximum growth. It is similar in nature to pumping cattle full of anitbiotics. The antibiotics kill bacteria in the cattle that limit its growth and treated cattle can weigh 100lbs more at market than the untreated cow.

Im just guessing, i dont really know but i do know what i witnessed after applying the LC.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

Sounds good!
I was worried the pistols literally matured...i'm glad its just discoloration...
Im with you though... i don't like it either and wont be spraying so strong next time.

Your logic about the tabacco fields seem sound to me!

 

[ronbo51]

So, it's early June and I have seen spots on tomatoes already. We have had a lot of cloudy days. Actually a great moisture base has been laid. Even if we come up hot and dry I think the groundwater is set pretty well. I was at a farm store buying pyrethrin for insect control and looked through some of the tomato plants for sale and many of the heirlooms already sported a good case of blight. To me this means that the spore load is HUGE, mostly because of what happened last year, and any ideas of getting through the season with half assed disease control is a road to failure. Go get your copper and start applications right now, remembering to get the undersides of the leaves. It's a hell of a long time till October. My autos are in full flower and rocking. July 1 and I'm done. Good luck.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

So, it's early June and I have seen spots on tomatoes already. I was at a farm store buying pyrethrin for insect control and looked through some of the tomato plants for sale and many of the heirlooms already sported a good case of blight. To me this means that the spore load is HUGE, mostly because of what happened last year, and any ideas of getting through the season with half assed disease control is a road to failure. Go get your copper and start applications right now, remembering to get the undersides of the leaves. It's a hell of a long time till October. My autos are in full flower and rocking. July 1 and I'm done. Good luck.

Damn Ronbo, that auto plan that leaves you going home by july sounds like a winner to me. What strains are you growin and are they of an acceptable potency? I may try it next year.

Youre right about tomatoes: I mean about their succeptabliity to the blight. I have a small garden out back and last year, i had blight on my tomatoes before they were knee high and looking back, not suprisingly its prevalence everywhere else was early and rampant. Its different at different locations though. I have tomatoes out and ive been watching carefullly but i havent seen any blight so far but last year when my crop was being devastated, my brother in law living 80 miles away hadnt seen the disease.

Im worried though. April was in the upper 80's, May was cloudy/cool and rainy for 28 days of the month and now, its been 90+ for nearly 2 weeks. It was 94 yesterday and its to be 96 today with no relief in site.

According to my wifes meat/cooking thermometer, my soil temps at
4" deep are 82 degrees.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

What is the latest into flowering that you would spray your plants?
With LC or GC? or even neem outa curiosity...
I want the best harvest but really dont want to taste anything other than what my girls intended for me to enjoy!
Thanks for any input.

 

[ronbo51]

Hey Doc,
I am well into my fifties and have grown all my life. I switched to autos three years ago to overcome the pitfalls of long season growing and have not looked back since. My genetics come from an original mix from Short Stuff and Stitch, but there are so many great autos out there from many vendors here at Icmag. My mix is such a mish mash of phenos that I have not really attempted to improve. I did a seed run with the originals and now have thousands of seeds to play with. I find the potency right up there with anything. Last fall I went on a trip and saw an experienced grower with many known high quality long season strains and tried them all and found my stuff was stronger. Autos have come a long way. The biggest problem is that they don't have much of a veg cycle and HATE being rootbound or slowed down in any way, so you need to plant them in large containers and keep them running hard. I start them in one gallon pots under floros til sexing in 3 weeks, then set them out. They love cold weather and do well in early spring. The big payoff is that you are done LONG before shit really starts to get sketchy. They love maturing with the long daylight of the Solstice. Give it a try. Highly recommended. Good luck

 

[StrapAssassin42]

Hey ronbo,
You have me intrigued! Are you putting your autos in the ground when they go outside or into bigger pots? I have thought about trying this but was concerned about transplanting to a hole outside with such a short veg cycle...(transplant shock). If im not mistaken your plants are basically just outside for flowering...correct?
And the million dollar question... what kind of yield are you getting per plant? (Average)
Looking forward to hearing your response.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

strapassasin, I dont spray anything in the last couple of weeks. Neither GC or LC really make the weed taste bad although i think their is an underlying acrid taste. Sulphur products WILL make the weed taste like a big fat dog turd.


Thats sounds like a decent plan ronbo1. I've been interested in auto's for some time. I could really have a 2 crop season= 1 that finishes early such as your and then there are a lot of 100 acre soy bean fields around me. Soybeans grow to about 3' and i just know that auto's would grow great between the rows.

 

[ronbo51]

Strap, Yield for me is hard. I don't weigh anything. My original seed purchase was a mix of autos. I grew out 10( I still have 10 originals left) of which two were males. I pollinated half with each male and got thousands of seeds, so my pheno variations are wide. Some plants grow two feet tall, that's about average. Some are smaller, some bigger. Every once in a while you get a runt that just never grows. What I do is prepare a plot about 4x8, load it up with plants, maybe 40 and let er rip. Instead of thinking about yield as individual plants I look at total yield. It's way more than an elbow. Way more. Several plots....you get the picture. The part about stunting the seedlings is very real. I have seen a tap root at the bottom of a beer cup 3 days after emergence and no true leaves yet. If that tap root hits something solid then that's about how big the plant will get, some exceptions allowed. I like to set out sexed plants so that my trips to my plot are minimized. Start in one gallon pots. By week three they are fully sexed and out they go into the plot. I grow in a semi urban spot so stealth is everything. To me stealth and the earliness of being done is the ultimate advantage of autos. Long before cops and rippers get going I am done. And water issues are way less because July and August are eliminated. And so is disease, since blight usually doesn't get going until the really HOT, HUMID nights of high summer stack up. I have grown autos in my flower and veggie gardens and with a little weaving and management no one could ever spot them. If I lived in a more rural environment I would plant a row of them in my veggie garden under floating row covers along with early season greens and such.
And Doc, soybeans and autos = success, guaranteed.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

D.S.,
I've considered growing in soybeans or similar crops but what about what the farmer sprays!? Round up or even fertilizer.... Round up ready beans are huge where im at... im even a little concerned about overspray so i stay away from fields. I imagine they dont have to spray roundup once the canopy of beans covers the ground... You guys have probably given this more thought than i have though, if im wrong let me have it cuz i would like to try that!