Beaucephus
Active member
i had 1, but it ran away.
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Local materials
- Thread starter Microbeman
- Start date
Rico Swazi
Active member
This plant appears to me to exhibit classic sativa structure. Concur?
It is amazing to me that rooted cuttings from the same mother occasionally take on unique traits. A little mind boggling.
Been watching ' How the Universe works' and equally boggle worthy for me has been the recent advancements in science to quantify the speed of gravity, detect gravitational waves, sub-atomic neutrinos having mass(gravity) and the origins of gamma ray bursts.
Back on earth and relevant to the plant shown, .... the paper below may lend credence to ratchet theory but I believe dismisses the idea dudding (extinction) will be the absolute end result. A good amount of intra-plant diversity was found so the choice is ours which mutations we wish to propagate, Thoughts?
Cannabis is typically propagated using stem cuttings taken from mother plants to produce genetically uniform propagules. However, producers anecdotally report that clonal lines deteriorate over time and eventually produce clones with less vigour and lower cannabinoid levels than the original mother plant. While the cause of this deterioration has not been investigated, one potential contributor is the accumulation of somatic mutations within the plant. To test this, we used deep sequencing of whole genomes (>50x) to compare the variability within an individual Cannabis sativa cv. “Honey Banana” plant sampled at the bottom, middle and top. We called over 6 million sequence variants based on a reference genome and found that the top had the most by a sizable amount. Comparing the variants among the samples uncovered that nearly 600K (34%) were unique to the top while the bottom only contained 148K (12%) and middle with 77K (9%) unique variants. Bioinformatics tools were used to identify mutations in critical cannabinoid/terpene biosynthesis pathways. While none were identified as high impact, four genes contained more than double the average level of nucleotide diversity (π) in or near the gene. Two genes code for essential enzymes required for the cannabinoid pathway while the other two are in the terpene pathways, demonstrating that mutations were accumulating within these pathways and could influence their function. Overall, a measurable number of intra-plant genetic diversity was discovered that could impact long-term genetic fidelity of clonal lines and potentially contribute to the observed decline in vigour and cannabinoid content.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.11.430823v3.full.pdf
Rico - Buddy! I thought I lost you. I've long been a proponent of what I call genetic or DVD drift in cuttings, however I have suffered a small amount of ridicule from some experts on ICmag for this assertion.
In other news I'm struggling with my big computer (24 GB RAM, 64 bit) that I use for interface with my scope. After running well since 2010 windows 7 pro has crashed. I managed to open in safe mode and (too late I know) tried to clone a system image but the command is not even there. I have a system image from 2010 but that will not include my software installs since then. Oy oy. I fear a clean install of everything upcoming. Right now I'm backing up hours of files.
Should I go Windows 10?
St. Phatty
Active member
I have a cheap laptop with Windows 10.
Can't believe how CLUNKY it is. I'm not sure how much of that is cheap laptop bloatware.
I have to use the Search feature to get to the Control Panel.
It's as if Apple smuggled someone into Microsoft to destroy Windows.
Windows XP forever !
Rico Swazi
Active member
Incognito Bro !!! Shout out to my cousin Walter for the idea !
Be baffled and ridiculed no longer my friend , read the PDF and have those 'experts' do the same. A John Maynard moment about the latest science has begun.
Rico Swazi
Active member
paragraph from another must read on tissue culture
re: choice in attaining ones goals
The occurrence of somaclonal variations in regenerated in vitro plants may be advantageous or disadvantageous, depending on in vitro propagation goals. If in vitro propagation aims to generate new variants, obtaining variations among in vitro plants can be advantageous that increases genetic diversity for a genotype used. It provides an alternative tool to the breeders for obtaining genetic variability in different plant species, which are either difficult to breed or have narrow genetic bases. On the flip side, when in vitro propagation targets to produce multiple true-to-type in vitro plants and maintain elite germplasm, the occurrence of subtle somaclonal variations is a severe problem.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.627240/full
Science is fun, endless fascination
the science is starting to show the need for growers/cultivators to be even more discerning and attentive in their choice to continue a specific genetic line
question is bottom middle or top?
I like the bottom. lol
re: choice in attaining ones goals
The occurrence of somaclonal variations in regenerated in vitro plants may be advantageous or disadvantageous, depending on in vitro propagation goals. If in vitro propagation aims to generate new variants, obtaining variations among in vitro plants can be advantageous that increases genetic diversity for a genotype used. It provides an alternative tool to the breeders for obtaining genetic variability in different plant species, which are either difficult to breed or have narrow genetic bases. On the flip side, when in vitro propagation targets to produce multiple true-to-type in vitro plants and maintain elite germplasm, the occurrence of subtle somaclonal variations is a severe problem.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.627240/full
Science is fun, endless fascination
the science is starting to show the need for growers/cultivators to be even more discerning and attentive in their choice to continue a specific genetic line
question is bottom middle or top?
I like the bottom. lol
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Did I miss the part in this thread about rabbit urine/manure from local rabbit meat producers? I saw bedding/shavings mentioned twice? You want the urine and manure instead. Straight rabbit manure has up to 4x the npk of cow and needs zero composting. 
Rico Swazi
Active member
Local rabbit meat producers will most likely use GMO feed to keep cost down. GiGo=Garbage in Garbage out
I know of no way around composting rabbit or any other manure source to be used for seedlings or clones. Anyone know a way to get around the salinity of rabbit dung?
Designer "flowering" rabbit poo depending on diet -
The nutrient content from the manure from rabbits fed with the different diets are presented in Table 1. The potassium, phosphorus, and nitrogen contents were significantly different (p < 0.05) between treatments. N:K ratios from T4, T3, T2, and T1 were, respectively, 18:2:1, 18:1:1, 8:1:1, and 7:1:1. For nitrogen content, treatments can be classified as T2 > T4 > T3 > T1, while for the phosphorus content, the classification was T4 > T3 > T2 > T1. Regarding N ratios, the order was T2 > T3 > T1 > T4 (Table 1). Overall, the manures from rabbits fed with improved diet with Panicum maximum had significantly high phosphorus content (p < 0.05). Whereas manures from rabbits fed with improved diet with Ipomea aquatica recorded the highest nitrogen content.
link.springer.com
Mine love the free range habitat I made
I know of no way around composting rabbit or any other manure source to be used for seedlings or clones. Anyone know a way to get around the salinity of rabbit dung?
Designer "flowering" rabbit poo depending on diet -
The nutrient content from the manure from rabbits fed with the different diets are presented in Table 1. The potassium, phosphorus, and nitrogen contents were significantly different (p < 0.05) between treatments. N
:K ratios from T4, T3, T2, and T1 were, respectively, 18:2:1, 18:1:1, 8:1:1, and 7:1:1. For nitrogen content, treatments can be classified as T2 > T4 > T3 > T1, while for the phosphorus content, the classification was T4 > T3 > T2 > T1. Regarding N ratios, the order was T2 > T3 > T1 > T4 (Table 1). Overall, the manures from rabbits fed with improved diet with Panicum maximum had significantly high phosphorus content (p < 0.05). Whereas manures from rabbits fed with improved diet with Ipomea aquatica recorded the highest nitrogen content.
Valorization of various sources of rabbit manure in agro-piscicultural system in Benin (West Africa): dynamics and effect of mineralization upon quality of fresh water - International Journal of Recycling of Organic Waste in Agriculture
Purpose Rising demand of fish generates various pressures on aquatic ecosystems, causing its deterioration and the loss of its biodiversity. With the aim of a better management and fish production in a salubrious environment, this study proposes the utilization of organic fertilizers from rabbit...
link.springer.com
Mine love the free range habitat I made
Rico Swazi
Active member
quantitative analysis is the answer. Cheap reliable qPCR tests for the masses just around the corner.
https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/...netic-variation-analysis-using-real-time.html
Surprises? , an auxin such as 2, 4-D activates retrotrasposons which directly affect the gene regulatory network (GRN) ..
mucho mutante
Shout out to my neighbors for all the help rounding up local materials for the hooglie. Moss off the barn roof this load in 2020
several loads of straw and hay
the next year 2021 , same day as the rabbit pic above
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Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Missed this thread for a minute.
Look for producers who care about the meat and are organic fed rabbits. I mix uncomposted manure directly in with no nute peat mix. Works a peach for sprouting and transplanting without any issues. I've used 40% manure to neutral soil mix so far. MOST plants, including african violets can be transplanted to 100% rabbit manure without composting, no burn.
The manure also makes a fantastic foliar or drench when made up as a tea.
Look for producers who care about the meat and are organic fed rabbits. I mix uncomposted manure directly in with no nute peat mix. Works a peach for sprouting and transplanting without any issues. I've used 40% manure to neutral soil mix so far. MOST plants, including african violets can be transplanted to 100% rabbit manure without composting, no burn.
The manure also makes a fantastic foliar or drench when made up as a tea.
Rico Swazi
Active member
Hey and High DC , I read somewhere that you were raising a lil herd yourself? For how long?
Friends of mine near Roseburg raise rabbits, organic pasture/hutch for meat.
Before pandemic, they sold rabbit manure(RM) with bedding, 5 5gal bucket full ( 25 gallon dumped in your hauler) for twenty bucks. Now they sell 5gal for that price, with bucket.
Some have told him they want to use it as you do but his advise to everyone is to compost it first or at the very least, do some side by side trials.
What are they asking in your locale for clean and mixed RM? Rabbit manure mixed bedding has excellent C/N ratio don't know why you don't want it as a base for your compost pile.
You do have a compost pile don't you? At any rate, I wish you success on safely using local materials for your garden.
Last thing, there is cannabis plant in that huglebed pic above, shows how well the guerilla test bed was working.
Plants grew extremely well in drought conditions with minimal water. Impressed the neighbors all to hell .
they witnessed being a part of regenerative agriculture happening in real time
Pics were 8-15-2021 bringing wildlife back
Friends of mine near Roseburg raise rabbits, organic pasture/hutch for meat.
Before pandemic, they sold rabbit manure(RM) with bedding, 5 5gal bucket full ( 25 gallon dumped in your hauler) for twenty bucks. Now they sell 5gal for that price, with bucket.
Some have told him they want to use it as you do but his advise to everyone is to compost it first or at the very least, do some side by side trials.
What are they asking in your locale for clean and mixed RM? Rabbit manure mixed bedding has excellent C/N ratio don't know why you don't want it as a base for your compost pile.
You do have a compost pile don't you? At any rate, I wish you success on safely using local materials for your garden.
Last thing, there is cannabis plant in that huglebed pic above, shows how well the guerilla test bed was working.
Plants grew extremely well in drought conditions with minimal water. Impressed the neighbors all to hell .
they witnessed being a part of regenerative agriculture happening in real time
Pics were 8-15-2021 bringing wildlife back
Attachments
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Ahhhh... I see the distinction now. Thank you for those clarifying questions.
No idea on local prices but 5gal/$20 sounds about right for the value of what it can do.
Manure + urine + bedding needs composted.
Manure + urine makes a great tea base
Straight manure needs no composting and can be used at 40% of your soil mix.
Urine can be diluted for root drench or further for foliar
My rabbits do not use bedding, and the manure is lightly contaminated with hay bits. No composting needed.
No idea on local prices but 5gal/$20 sounds about right for the value of what it can do.
Manure + urine + bedding needs composted.
Manure + urine makes a great tea base
Straight manure needs no composting and can be used at 40% of your soil mix.
Urine can be diluted for root drench or further for foliar
My rabbits do not use bedding, and the manure is lightly contaminated with hay bits. No composting needed.
Rico Swazi
Active member
that's great DC, never answered how long you have been using RM 'straight from the shitshoot' remember to do the side by side
Been thinking of starting a thread. Here is a rough and final draft
Compost that Shit!
Rule #1- Do not use manure from any animal without proper composting first, be it fermenting as in bokashi or an aerobic/ thermophilic method. .
...no fresh manure
Rule #2- see Rule #1
that's it.
Leaving nature out of the process from the beginning has had negative consequences for myself and others following the NPK paradigm in organics
Been there done that, live and learn kind of thing
The OP of this thread has been saying this sort of thing about NPK for years. I first lurked and liked what Microbman was saying about the orchestra in this '08 thread-
Thanks Tim for helping folks over the years be aware that there is a orchestra playing that we should listen to and for the sharing some of life's lessons along the way.
Vibes and good thoughts of health and peace from the wife and I in the font of your choosing my friend.
“Nature’s book always contains the truth; we must only learn to read it.”
— Sepp Holzer
Been thinking of starting a thread. Here is a rough and final draft
Compost that Shit!
Rule #1- Do not use manure from any animal without proper composting first, be it fermenting as in bokashi or an aerobic/ thermophilic method. .
...no fresh manure
Rule #2- see Rule #1
that's it.
Leaving nature out of the process from the beginning has had negative consequences for myself and others following the NPK paradigm in organics
Been there done that, live and learn kind of thing
The OP of this thread has been saying this sort of thing about NPK for years. I first lurked and liked what Microbman was saying about the orchestra in this '08 thread-
Organic Growing from a Microbial Perspective
Suby, Previously I believe you suggested that I post something as a sticky, unless I misunderstood, however, I was unable to figure out how to do so. I have posted this monologue to my website http://www.microbeorganics.com and am posting it here as I have promised to some of the forum...
www.icmag.com
Thanks Tim for helping folks over the years be aware that there is a orchestra playing that we should listen to and for the sharing some of life's lessons along the way.
Vibes and good thoughts of health and peace from the wife and I in the font of your choosing my friend.
“Nature’s book always contains the truth; we must only learn to read it.”
— Sepp Holzer
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Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
I've been using RM for nearly a year now, ty for reminding me. Fresh RM is a good substitute for worm castings as well. Not AS good but much better than none.
RM is rather different than most manures from domesticated animals.
RM is rather different than most manures from domesticated animals.
Larger Hooglie bed second planting with an Ex-mother in the tub. First small hooglie bed 4th planting Had to cover with a plastic ceiling because the neighbor is selling and looky-loos
