Living organic soil from start through recycling

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Cann have you considered using biochar in your soil mix?

It will improve the drainage, become a home for microbial life, retain nutrients, improve the water holding capacity and help with your ammonium smell by mopping up any excess nitrogen and other potential nasties.

See the Terra Preta thread link in my sig for more info.

 

[Microbeman]

Cann; There is some good work done by Gil from Philipines on Indigenous Microorganisms which uses rice and/or rice wash and many people confuse the two.

The important difference is the inclusion of PNSBs in EM which are found in pond mud, fish scales and pitcher plants. These are considered the 'magic' of EM. Combined with Lactobacillus and several yeast cells they are great soil conditioners. They break down toxins and accelerate degradation of residues. I prefer not to use EM fermentations during growth but many people do. I consider it a Yin to the Yang of ACT, using it inbetween planting on soil.

 

[W89]

how do you harvest the microbes from pond mud? My mums got a pond in her garden I would give that a go

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Hey Cootz...any opinion yet?

YS

I apologize for not remembering to post an answer to your question which isn't very polite on my part.

The 1/2 cup per cubic foot was from Dr. Senn's work about using kelp meal in a potting soil mix and that is what I went with.

HTH

CC

 

[W89]

In my mums pond filter there are worms and I took a load of the worm shit out and used it to make an ACT before do you think it would have been any good ?

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

YS

I apologize for not remembering to post an answer to your question which isn't very polite on my part.

The 1/2 cup per cubic foot was from Dr. Senn's work about using kelp meal in a potting soil mix and that is what I went with.

HTH

CC

i have double that in my soil mix. full cup...i really don't worry about a lil extra kelp though. shouldn't hurt my pockets or the plants...

 

[W89]

I went with 1 cup too and half a cup each of neem,alfalfa and chicken shit pellets will also be adding crab when it comes

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I was simply answering a question from YosemiteSam - not a recommendation per se.

That's all......

 

[W89]

14 cups of dolomite per cuft

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Aren't you concerned about leaf damage from using Dolo Mites?

 

[W89]

No I've been shooting them with cal-mag with my super soaker..

 

[JoeDudeGuy]

You crack me up Cootz !

 

[Weyenot]

This thread is a lot of work!I've been researching spaghnum peat moss off & on all day.I guess this is my punishment for shooting off my mouth with an opinion without facts handy to back it up.

Here's basically what I learned:
Spaghnum peat moss is a great component of a soil mix for multiple reasons;moisture retention,high (110-130) CEC,it's own microbial contribution but the main reason seems to be for soil aeration and drainage.It's large fibrous particles allow air passage by separating small soil particles.Spaghnum peat is naturally resistant to decay due to phenolic compounds in the cell walls.Compost alone has much the same properties plus it provides nutrition but while it starts off nice & fluffy it decomposes into smaller & smaller particles relatively quickly leading to soil compaction=poor aeration and drainage.This resistance to decay make it valuable when growing plants that will occupy the soil for a longer period or if the soil is being recycled.

The website of the Quebec Peatmoss Producers Association was helpful regarding the grading by color - http://tourbehorticole.com/en/peat/index.php Color varies according to the age of the peat and it's carbon content.Younger peat is pale in color and has the lowest carbon content.Carbon content rises with age up to60%at which point it is in some places burnt for fuel.Peat which has decomposed into small unrecognizable particles is called peat humus.The relative colors are measured using the Von Post scale with 10 gradations designated H1 thru H10 with H1 being the lightest shade.Younger peat is considered the most desirable as it is least decayed and has the highest water retention capacity.As to possible changes in Cec as it decays I don't know.I'll leave the chemistry details for someone else more qualified.

No,I certainly don't think you'd do any harm using a darker peat still good but maybe not optimal.You of course don't have to use peat at all if you use other amendments with the same properties.I can't afford to order all the amendments I now crave but anything I do buy I'd like to be the best I can get.

IMO the big-box stores base their decisions on what products to carry based on the bottom line ,not necessarily what's the best,but what's adequate that they can buy a little cheaper,sell a little cheaper & move more units while improving their mark-up.

Clack says Fafard packs Majestic Earth but I can't help but wonder if this is the same product they sell under their own name to the horticulture biz.I doubt it.I've used Fafard 3b mix off & on for a while now and it's a quality product.This time I'm not junking it though,just a gentle remix with amendments.

I haven't made it out yet to collect any samples but I'm going to try & get as many different kinds as I can find locally.May not be easy,nobody seems to stock many garden supplies here in Ohio in Jan.

This thread leads me to some strange links:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/08/bogosphere/

O boy, you sure did your homework!
I have only just started using peat so there is much experience to be had and knowledge to be absorbed. I will definitely be checking out these sources soon.
Until now I had the idea in my head that the main reasons for using peat were to add organic matter and microbes; based on your explanation it would seem that it would be good for aeration too, provided it wasnt too broken down. On that note, all the info I have encountered out there suggested that coco was the better choice over peat because it breaks down slower; any thoughts on that?
In regards to the cec of peat; from what I have learned here humus has a high cec, so therefore peat that is more broken down into humus would have a higher cec. I believe that is correct

It does seem that the bottom line for the big stores is the buck so it would make sense for them to stock the cheap stuff. As far the Majestic Earth is concerned, I wont know until some comparison is done and maybe not even after that. You certainly have me interested in doing some comparing, thank you for the nudge!!

I will be sure to share what I find; happy hunting to you on your quest!

Also, what kinds of amendments are on your wishlist? Im working towards ordering some different rock dusts plus some neem meal. If you are interested in neem meal; in addition to the meal at KIS which is supposed to be high quality and is highly recommended by the knowledgeable people here you might also want to check out neemtreefarms in fl, good products there as well.

Love be with you brother!

 

[Weyenot]

Don't add LAB in any form - EM-1, Bokashi, whatever. The science on that is sketchy at best as far as a soil amendment. At best.

Go with standard organic processes and you'll be fine. It'll all work out in a few days I'm sure.

CC

Wow Coot, Im glad you mentioned this! I have some rice soak water and that I will be making a LAB "mother" with and I was planning on adding some of the dilute to my recycling soil to help with the breakdown. I am also making some BIM(beneficial indigenous microbes) in some compost, would that be a better choice?

 

[Weyenot]

hmm...am I wrong or did you use bokashi bran in a soil experiment a few years back? thought i remembered reading that on ***, although i have been medicating a bit too much lately to remember everything I read...and my notes from this stuff is too thick to sort through right now haha

but obviously i trust you on this - i wont add EM in any form. I can get premier at the Lowes in town (score!) for $14 or something damn cheap. I can get pumice, lava rock (red stuff but its chunky, is this bad?), and rice hulls. didnt think you advocated perlite much...have things changed? tomorrow I am going to grab some local EWC - hopefully as much as I can get without breaking the bank. there are a good amount of resources around me I just have to look, but I'm willing to journey to get the goods. people down here are more than clueless when it comes to this kinda thing, as I was myself just a few months ago.

Now that I no longer view cannabis as some exotic superplant and I treat it like any other vegetable the game has totally changed. I have always had an organic mind and true permaculture is what I am striving towards - I just got tricked into thinking that natural systems couldn't be applied indoors..too much time in grow stores and not enough time listening to crazy old coots Now that I have seen the light I am on a misson... constantly out harvesting aloe, dandelions, horsetail (theres some invading my front yard from the neighbors!) etc. collecting leaves, free manure, waste from local cafes, etc. even in the IE these days there are some decent resources..plus I can always trek up into the mountains and harvest some BIM plus all the other goodies I can find up there (rock dust, yarrow, etc.)

would you worry about pollution at all? there are awesome stands of oregano, rosemary, lavender,etc. - lots of great botanicals - theyre just close to a main road in town, plus who knows what the city might spray? shit like that has always got me paranoid down here...poison everywhere you turn

k thats my rant for now, but you get the point. things are looking up, even if I do have multiple cf of "supersoil" (sketchysoil...) that I dont know what to do with at this point LOL

oh yeah and this http://www.plantchicago.com/about/ pure gold.

Way to go Cann, it looks like your getting the thirst too, the thirst for truth and knowledge!! It can be a tough path and at times downright frustrating but with patience it always pays off.
Keep on being inspired!

Also, there is a recipe for BIM on the fermented plant extracts thread -which is the one I am using-, is that the one you plan on using/are using?

 

[Weyenot]

I allowed my sprouts to get about half an inch long previous to throwing them in the tea. I stirred the solution a couple times and used what I needed after about 36 hours. The aroma was and still is pleasant, to me anyway, like sour milk or plain yogurt.

I used what I needed and allowed the rest to ferment for a week. I cut that solution in half, diluted it 1:1 and put it on the compost pile. It must be OK if the Dog and Cats are trying to find it in the compost pile, though I don't really like them digging in it.

I noticed mine has a similar smell, sour milk with a slight sweetness to it. Are you using Coot's recipe? Im curious because you dont mention diluting or anything or the sort before using on your plants. What kinds of awesome results have you been witnessing, maybe some praying among other things?

 

[Weyenot]

lol alright I'll take your word on the experiment being "without merit"

it's funny cause my bokashi bran bag says to add 1/3c per cuft to soil mix lol...who knows where they got that one from...

and its funny you post an Ijahman Levi video - I was just listening to the other Ijahman levi song you posted here around page 200 or so. thanks for that

so if I go pick up some coconut water later from the health food store, I can dilute 1:15 and water my ladies? any tips on where to find fresh coconut in so-cal? besides BJW if he orders that case lol

and what do you think about rrog's comment about secondary metabolites vs. FPE.

trying to figure out what to do with the botanicals/sprouts I have lined up

thanks again you help wayyy more than you know

Cann- alot of the asian markets carry thai coconuts and I think alot will also sell them by the case too; that would be were I would check

CC- I used your recommended dilution for the juice fresh out of the nut(1:15) on my last round of cuttings and still got some mold starting to appear in the drain pan under the plug tray; my method was, soaking the peat -what im cloning in- with the dilute and then misting the tops with it as well. There is a high possibility I am getting something confused, or maybe the coconut was going south. Any thoughts?

 

[Weyenot]

And one more thing before I shut down for the night.....
Coot - I tried to find that thread on Peat you mentioned a while back but couldnt, do you have a name for the thread? Id love to read it

 

[Mr_Grimbo]

Great thread guys.. Thanks.

Mr. Grimbo

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

If you are just diluting you don't need the EWC; just the molasses cause you probably have EWC in your mix already..right?

On EM fermetations;
Yes actually. I judge the EM fermentation content of PNSB by the color and the pH. I like the pH at under 3.4 and the color reddish - purple. I posted a photo, here lemme find it...

View Image

MM,
is that a 1:1:20 mix for your EM? being 1 part mole-asses, 1 part "bennie and the jets" EM, and 20 parts chlorine free water? and have you tried any additional ingredients? this guy has some recipes and i was just about to activate some of mine, but i'm wondering if i should consider adding more to it or is it just a waste of product in your opinion? i bought the stuff off of the link provided so i wonder if maybe he's setting me up for the old up sale... i'm so paranoid from my days of going to the hydro store but this guy seems to know a thing or two about gardening so i can't really tell...
DDG



http://www.gardenerspantry.ca/great-tips-and-videos/activated-em.html