Living organic soil from start through recycling

[shmalphy]

The farm I volunteer at uses nothing but compost to amend their soil. They don't even use irrigation, and we harvested watermelons, and about 50 other different things last year... Their vegetables are by far the best at the market, and are served in some of the finest restaurants in the country...

With that many houseplants, you should be able to make a compost pile from the extra growth and your kitchen scraps right inside. Buy as much stuff that needs peeling as you can, including nuts... My house is half the size of your workshop (seriously).. Start a bokashi bucket so you can recycle your meat and dairy into humus as well... Consider a few aloes, and some biomass generators like comfrey as houseplants... Nettle will condition the soil it is grown in... Worms would be a bonus...

Seriously, don't over complicate things. You have all the tools you need right here.

 

[xmobotx]

gregor mendel's plan is pretty cool; use your spent mix to start a compost pile and nutrient cycle in there ~adding peat to spec after a year or so

could have all your feedstocks/lime cycled in and just add peat/drainage

maybe try dank frank's amendment mix?

 

[Microbeman]

BlueJay;

Be cautious with mixing bark or wood into the depths of soil, unless it has been composted/aged (really well). It is better used on the surface. Below in the soil, the microbes are built so that they may choose to utilize all the available nitrogen to break down that non-sequestered carbon and you could end up exposed to that infamous nitrogen lock up or out or whatever it is called.

After years of being cautious I did this to myself last year in a moment of stupidity.

 

[Microbeman]

Coot;

Was my crude math not close to accurate for the conversion?

Also, the Lily of the Desert aloe I got is like water. Is this typical? I thought it was to be a gel.

 

[gregor_mendel]

Coot

So how does one take the AgSil and make a gallon of concentrated Pro-TeKt?

I hit the spreadsheet, and I came up with 1.445 pounds = 4441.03 grams to a gallon of water = ProTekt

My final results showed 7.8% Silica and 3.92% Potassium (4.72% K20) , whereas ProTekt claims 7.8% Silica and 3.7% K20. I don't know if they actually mean 3.7% potassium in the form of K2O, or 3.7% actual K20. Either way, my potassium numbers don't match theirs, but my silica numbers do, so take it with a grain of epsom salt. If anyone wants more explanation of my calculations, just pipe up.

Edit: 1.445 pounds = 656.03 grams NOT 4441.03 grams. 4441.03 grams is 656.03 grams (AgSil) + 3785 grams (gallon of water). So add 656.03 grams AgSil to 1 gallon of water to approximate ProTekt concentrate.

 

[Microbeman]

Gregor; Does this make any sense?

AgSil 16H:

Soluble Potash (K2O) - 32%
Silicon (SiO2) - 52.8%

.7 grams in one gallon of water yeilds 98ppm SiO2 or 46ppm Si, and 49ppm K from their web site

Dyna Gro Pro-TeKt

Soluble Potash (K2O) - 3.7%
Silicon (SiO2) - 7.8%

So how do I make Pro-TeKt with the powder? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

CC

Sloppy math;

32%~3.7% = 8.6 times more concentrated
52.8%~7.8% = 6.77 times more concentrated

Average of greater concentration; 8.6+6.77~2=7.685

0.7g/gal~7.685=0.09g/gal = Protekt (approx)

 

[gregor_mendel]

MM

This is the approach I took:

I set up a spreadsheet that added 3785 grams ( 1 gallon of water) to a variable amount of AgSil, and varied the amount until I got 7.8% Silica.

For each amount of AgSil I tried, I would multiply that amount by 32% for K20, then divide by the amount of AgSil in grams plus 3785 grams for the gallon of water.

Simultaneously, I would multiply the amount of Agsil by 52.8% for SiO2, and divide by the amount of AgSil plus 3785 grams for the gallon of water. I varied until I achieved 7.8% SiO2.

The final result was 656.03 grams of AgSil + 3785 grams of water = 4441.03 grams of solution.

32% of 656.03 grams divided by 4441.03 grams = 4.727% potash which is equivalent to 3.92% potassium.

52.8% of 656.03 grams divided by 4441.03 grams = 7.8% SiO2 which is what ProTekt is supposed to be.

As for your approximation that .09 grams of AgSil in 1 gallon of water is approximately equal to 1 milliliter of ProTekt in 1 gallon of water, I agree.

Others reading this should note that my calculations are to produce an approximation of one gallon of ProTekt concentrate, while MMs calculations are for a direct addition of AgSil to feed solution to approximate having added ProTekt to feed solution.

Clear as mud?

Also note that I edited my initial post.

g_m

 

[Seandawg]

Not sure if any one here cares, but happy thanksgiving all!

 

[MrSterling]

MM, I use the same brand. Both the "inner fillet" extract and the "5x concentrate" were liquid like that.

 

[BlueJayWay]

BlueJay;

Be cautious with mixing bark or wood into the depths of soil, unless it has been composted/aged (really well). It is better used on the surface. Below in the soil, the microbes are built so that they may choose to utilize all the available nitrogen to break down that non-sequestered carbon and you could end up exposed to that infamous nitrogen lock up or out or whatever it is called.

After years of being cautious I did this to myself last year in a moment of stupidity.

Well I'm glad I was thinking out loud. It is pretty well aged in that its been sitting outside for at least 5 years+ and will crumble up pretty good by hand with just a little effort, but still retains its bark look and rounded shape when undisturbed, so I thought it might be a good "buffer" between the rocks and the soil, benefits down the road as it composts - this is living in a forest alone science, not real science .

It could just as easily be used as mulch and may prove a better option in the long run. I'm also layering it down at the bottom of new compost heaps.

Also, the LoTD aloe is like water, should have a slight bitter taste. When used at 1/4 cup each and every watering i certainly notice the benefits, but a gallon can go very quickly lol at which time I start using an 1/8 cup, or whatever to make it stretch.

I will be considering the Australian powder concentrate, Coot do you mind throwing up the link for this?

 

[gregor_mendel]

BJW

I'll bet crumbles by hand meets MMs criterion of composted/aged (really well). That's how it is used in hugelkultur. MM?

 

[Microbeman]

BJW

I'll bet crumbles by hand meets MMs criterion of composted/aged (really well). That's how it is used in hugelkultur. MM?

Could be, its just that I like to be cautious, having completely botched my poppy garden last year. Using it in compost is a superior plan. I'm no expert in aging bark fines but nurseries in my area grow in it a lot.

We bought two granny smith apple trees last year potted in what appeared to be nothing but aged hemlock bark fines. Got one apple this year and a bumper crop on our heritage (heirloom) trees since trimming them back. That's one thing about moving onto an old homestead, is the inheritance of old trees and plants.

I've got a heritage rose bush here that I bet many would kill for and several 100+ year old cedars.

 

[BlueJayWay]

Thanks guys, its not compost by any means, but certainly close, maybe close enough, logic states that its possible benefits would grossly under-weigh said risks.

It's hugelkultur that gave me these ideas to start putting all these fuckin piles of bark, pine cones, twigs and logs I have everywhere underneath things

I don't need to use the fireplace as much anymore since I have passive heating in and under the house now....

I planted a dozen sequoias around the property in the spring, partially the reason I discovered I truly live on a pile of granite, I was getting sick of digging around boulders and I knew a good spot that use to have a big cedar stump, now it's just soft chunks of decomposing wood that you can stick your hands well into. I stuck one tree in this area and its doing fine, not as much growth honestly but it's alive and its second year will give it greater growth and allow roots to get a foothold much further into the surrounding soil.

 

[MrSterling]

Everything dies baby, that's a fact.
But maybe everything that dies
some day comes back.
Put your makeup on, fix your hair up pretty,
And meet me tonight in Atlantic City.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Fishstick you should give the biochar a go as it along with organic matter (compost) would be of great benefit to sandy soils. This is because the char literally hold onto nutrients (and water) and keeps them there for the plants. A compost with say 5% char would be more than enough.

Indoors it would help boost yields or at least keep them up with less nutrients.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Aloe Vera Extract 200x, Organic

The supplier that I used the first time on the 200XX powder only sells in 1 kg. packs for $250.00

This company offers amounts as little as 1/4 oz. up to 5 lb. - a pound is only $111.27

Just to repeat: mix 1 gram of the 200XX with 199 grams of water = 200 grams of pure aloe vera extract. Just like when using fresh leaves you have to contend with fermentation issues (from the Benzoic acid) so either mix up what you need for that day's application or you have to do what companies like LoTD do - use a preservative.

I'd say mix what you need and be done with it.

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

So add 656.03 grams AgSil to 1 gallon of water to approximate ProTekt concentrate.

Okay - I can figure the rest out for making pints which is my goal. Having a mix that is equal to Pro-TeKt is easier to use (for me) when I want to adjust the amount up or down or especially when using it as an emulsifier for neem oil.

Whew! Numbers scramble my brain in these situations. Big time.

Thanks to MM and yourself - I did not follow the math very well but these numbers will get me across the finish line.

CC

 

[S4703W]

hey guys, thank you for the incredible amount of knowledge you've all shared here. this thread is like the beacon of shining light in the inter-storm.

CC, I've seen great results with the aloe foliar, the difference was very evident in veg and cloning especially. I went to a local nursery and grabbed a few(has turned into 8, plant is great for more than just this stuff)aloe vera plants. Then i've been throwing the leaves and a little water in the blender a couple minutes prior to foliar and then using the remainder in my tea. How often do you usually use the aloe foliars and feedings and how far into flowering? I've not been using it last few weeks as i'm in late flowering with a couple earlier girls down now. i can say without a doubt it's the most flavorful i've ever had just best i've had overall in all catagories. i don't know if i should thank you for all the ewc inspiration or the aloe but this recycled soil has never churned out better than this and i just see it getting better with time and experience.

I also have another question lobbed in MM's direction, i saw you mention it a few pages back and perhaps another thread somewhere here but you said you use an EM-1 brew of some sort for yaself and would be very curious to hear more about it. 'Organics' has crept into every facet of my life(as it should) and i find myself ingesting many of the same things as my plants(except ewc). So i guess i'm askin how you're takin it, any effects you've noticed that kinda thing.

Thank you for any input anyone has, and thank you for all the inspiration.

 

[BlueJayWay]

As always, mucho appreciated!

Aloe Vera Extract 200x, Organic

The supplier that I used the first time on the 200XX powder only sells in 1 kg. packs for $250.00

This company offers amounts as little as 1/4 oz. up to 5 lb. - a pound is only $111.27

Just to repeat: mix 1 gram of the 200XX with 199 grams of water = 200 grams of pure aloe vera extract. Just like when using fresh leaves you have to contend with fermentation issues (from the Benzoic acid) so either mix up what you need for that day's application or you have to do what companies like LoTD do - use a preservative.

I'd say mix what you need and be done with it.

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

BlueJay

As you can see the savings on a gallon of aloe vera juice (aka extract, etc.) is around 80% - a lb. would make 200 x 448 = 89,600 grams of juice = 25 gallons @ $111.27

And if stored as a powder you wouldn't have shelf-life issues to contend with.

CC