Living organic soil from start through recycling

[BlueJayWay]

I wouldn't say new inputs frequently, although that word is subjective, but yes, inputs are needed at least from time to time, even if sometimes those inputs are just water or a little pile of compost on a new plant every 60 days.

Gascanastan said it best, the transition into ROLS and ROLS-NT (no till) is the moment you start looking at your base soil as a single living entity, that needs to bed fed watered and cared for, not much different than keeping a pet.

This was said a few pages back and really rang true for me.

 

[unclefishstick]

it seems like most everyone use some sort of tea or extract or another on a weekly basis,i would consider that to be fresh input.

 

[Gascanastan]

Way to go my friend. I remember back a few years some treated me like crazy for suggesting this method.

One straw - hooraw

I never thought you were 'out of your mind' crazy...just crazy like the rest of us....on your own trip but on the bus...like the rest of us who are 'on the bus'..

I used to be intimidated to talk to MM...he used to get pissed when challenged by those who were clearly wrong... like me and Coot have from time to time when explaining something for the several ump-teen hundred times....and then the poor guys that chose to debate w/him...the poor souls.

 

[Gascanastan]

Stan -

The no-tills I've done were only done because the previous crop was fully green at harvest, which on the no till run = no fuss, great yield n growth etc etc, couldn't be easier. Only top dressed with a handful of compost, one or two act's, one or two botanical teas, and mostly straight water. They ended very green also, with close to zero additional inputs on 2nd run!

I'm doing some no-tills this go around in 7gal smarties which previous crop ended light green to yellow to very yellow, massive flower growth. I topdressed with a good couple inches quality compost blended with small amounts of select amendments/minerals and watered with act. After sitting for a week they will be planted in. Just for kicks I'm leaving a couple as is that will be replanted with no additional inputs, just teas as needed.

One would assume if a plant finished up very yellow then the 2nd run will have to be fed heavily or topdressed aggressively to get vigorous healthy growth, I'm curious if youve seen any anomalies that didn't fit into what was assumed would happen. i.e. 2nd run ended up better with less inputs simply because the soil was more well established etc.

I'm rambling now, curious to know what others have observed in no-tills on 2nd and 3rd runs vs. how the immediate prior crop performed.

That's pretty much how I have been playing it.....
This is basically still a new practice for me...if you count two years of fiddlin w/it @ the same time as my regular method.

One thing that remains a constant is the fact that a larger soil biosphere (bigger pots)has the ability to sustain itself longer. The furthest I've no-tilled in one pot was four cycles.

 

[MileHighGuy]

If anyone is looking for Neem Meal, I was able to get the guys at Dyno-Gro to break up their 50lb bag and ship me whatever I wanted.

I opted for 10lbs for $20.00

Just call the Number for their office and ask around.

Guy said he had 5 or 10 bags laying around in the warehouse

 

[MileHighGuy]

http://www.onestrawrevolution.net/One_Straw_Revolution/One-Straw_Revolution.html

For those that didn't catch the above mentioned reference to the no till ways

 

[Microbeman]

read it

 

[Gascanastan]

Pure Kush x BMR

3rd round no-till 3 gallon pot from last year sometime....

 

[ClackamasCootz]

it seems like most everyone use some sort of tea or extract or another on a weekly basis,i would consider that to be fresh input.

In terms of either applying food materials for microbe colonies (however you get there) or a massive injection of said colonies (ACT) then one could consider that fresh input.

I would agree with the stipulation that these are not fertilizers in the sense that is usually associated with that term.

 

[MileHighGuy]

read it

Thanks!

Borrowed this from a friend last year and it changed my outlook on farming.

Happy to have this PDF for reference

 

[Gascanastan]

this is not a closed loop system,everything i have read here indicates it requires new input frequently.indeed it would be impossible to close the loop since you remove the parts of the plant that require the most resources to produce.

The loop I'm more refering to is the labor intensive part of indoor chamber HID cannabis gardening universe combined with the actual natural procesess.....where as close to closing the actual soil food web gets is the joy of just being able to feed the soil via liquid organic concoctions...or topdressing with this and that on pots/beds that never get emptied.

Once those no tills get rolling replicating nature as close to possible on an indoor level running organic cannabis cycles back to back indefinitely is going to be the functional method for those who have dehabiltating conditions that need to produce medicine for themselves....but it also works with 6k...I'm sure of it...just might need bigger pots than 5 gallon...but I'm doing a no till 6k in 5 gallon buckets now....let's see what happenz......

 

[MileHighGuy]

My limiting factors are.
1) Small size of my air pump
2) Small size of my garden (12, 5gall & 15, 3gall)
3) Plants in all different stages
4) Gorilla grow so i have to pack in all this ACT.

For the above reasons i chose this method because with such a small amount of act and small pump i can have a very high Dissolved oxygen level.this should increase the amount biological activity.

I think this is great, and for some reason I just never thought of doing a micro-brew... or multiple batches.... pretty cool.

 

[BlueJayWay]

Okay, now I have a goal - I have an 18gal no-till on its 3rd cycle, goin for five

(Nice lookin PKxBMR!!)

 

[Gascanastan]

Okay, now I have a goal - I have an 18gal no-till on its 3rd cycle, goin for five

(Nice lookin PKxBMR!!)

That's what I'm talkin about...that's the size of pot that can test the "indefinitely" part of the deal.

 

[rrog]

this is not a closed loop system,everything i have read here indicates it requires new input frequently.indeed it would be impossible to close the loop since you remove the parts of the plant that require the most resources to produce.

I didn't take the "closing of the loop" to mean growing without addition.

 

[bajangreen]

What about "compaction issues" and the "physical aspect" of the soil in no till containers?

If you keep top dressing with one type of amendment the soil as a whole may become to lose or too tight, i can imagen after a time things like pierlite would "float" out or sand would "sink" to the bottom of the pots, so we may have to mix up the soil a little. or does the microbial activity do this for us? does the carbon/nitrogen ratio for composting apply to amending no-till pots, or am i just once more complicating a simple issue?

I am on my second run no till, i just pulled out the old root ball and put in new plants they are doing fine in fact that's the best in veg i have done with this strain, now we will see what it does in flower.

 

[unclefishstick]

The loop I'm more refering to is the labor intensive part of indoor chamber HID cannabis gardening universe combined with the actual natural procesess.....where as close to closing the actual soil food web gets is the joy of just being able to feed the soil via liquid organic concoctions...or topdressing with this and that on pots/beds that never get emptied.

Once those no tills get rolling replicating nature as close to possible on an indoor level running organic cannabis cycles back to back indefinitely is going to be the functional method for those who have dehabiltating conditions that need to produce medicine for themselves....but it also works with 6k...I'm sure of it...just might need bigger pots than 5 gallon...but I'm doing a no till 6k in 5 gallon buckets now....let's see what happenz......

i can see where this would be a great method with much larger pots,i just dont see 5 gallons as being a large enough mass to really keep that going.it strikes me that this is a perfect method for someone setting up a largish grow for a dispensary who is actually concerned with producing quality meds. setting this soil mix up in say 200 gallon smartpots on pallets with at least 1 1000w lamp per plant...hoo doggy i bet you could grow a mess of fine meds that way...probably be able to grow a bunch of your tea component plants in situ...

I didn't take the "closing of the loop" to mean growing without addition.

i always think of that term in the sense of the NASA goal of creating a way to feed people in space ,as in a true closed loop where the plants create oxygen for the humans who create co2 for the plants as well as recycling their waste into plant food and the plants are cleaning the water which is also recycled....that sort of thing...but theres still no loops to be closed here,top dressing and adding things in a liquid form is still re-amending,no matter what,you are still going to have to bring outside sources into the system.

 

[shmalphy]

Worms in your no till pots helps with compaction issues

I have been using no till for a few months now, it definitely saves the back without filling all the containers. each time.

 

[BlueJayWay]

Microbial activity will hinder compaction and the health (or lack) of your plants in no-till runs will reflect this. Proper aeration amendments will go a long way and is crucial in no-till sit-ups, I learned that the hard way

I've done two runs no-till in 5 gal buckets with no drainage, although that will be changing because the smarties next to 'em visibly outperformed the buckets - probably drilling holes in half of them soon lol and buying more smarties, I feel like I can feel the roots wanting more air, especially by the end of flower, although two crops back to back did just fine with no breathing except from up top, whatever....

The 18gal size seem to be a sweet spot, meaning most everything ive done in that size comes out golden and no fuss, damn near set and forget.

need to do more work on my 50gal smarties, I.e. much thicker layer of rocks etc on the bottom and/or get the damn things up on a pallet and off the concrete floor! Also quite different watering needs when you get that big indoors, my first run was dry all the way around the edges, top to bottom, and too moist in the middle - water from the outside in rather than the inside out, like water heavier on the perimeter and light in the middle, spraying the exterior of the fabric pots during foliars could only help also.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

AgSil 16H - update

The AgSil arrived and it is definitely water soluble. Completely and totally without any residue or undissolved pieces like K-MAG, etc.

Good product, IMHO

CC