Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[Weird]

Why cover crop or mulch, because its science.

Isnt that what you preach - science trumping habit?

science and experience are simply metrics to measure what variables where in play to build a result

I am sharing my results based on what works for me if you have a critique about the plants have at it

is there any relevance to your trolling? Let me guess, the cover crops kids are afraid their income from their web site will decline if people see it done with less?

I don't think gypsy is privy to went on here and what it cost/costs him today

I will be more than glad to connect the dots

 

[Avinash.miles]

fyi rockwool isn't spun glass it's spun calcium sillicate (wollastonite) - spun rock

i like mulches to maintain moisture in top layer of soil or else i get a deeper dry out layer than i would like... 4-6 inches
with mulches my soil more easily retains it's moisture at the surface level - not sayin git's mandatory, just sharing my method
it's super dry where im at so i need a lil mulch to hold moisture in the surface of my soil

 

[Weird]

personally I have very specific reasons for not using them

In the vein of relativity I look to maintain a specific soil ecosystem for my plants in my local environment

very happy with my development over the term relative to my environment

that is where it starts and ends for me since I incorporated little pieces of the puzzle over time and kept what worked and abandoned what did not

 

[Thcvhunter]

science and experience are simply metrics to measure what variables where in play to build a result

I am sharing my results based on what works for me if you have a critique about the plants have at it

is there any relevance to your trolling? Let me guess, the cover crops kids are afraid their income from their web site will decline if people see it done with less?

I don't think gypsy is privy to went on here and what it cost/costs him today

I will be more than glad to connect the dots

You should know me and know that I'm not a shill.

I'm a Karma grower.
Or what you would call a dumb hippie.

So how does my comment involve Gypsy ir cost him anything?

I have no problems with Gypsy - I support him.

The conjecture and attitude is strong with you.

Iwas not trolling, just pointing out what you could be doing to improve your grow. Youknow....helping out

 

[exploziv]

Can we keep this thread ontopic, please?

 

[redlaser]

personally I have very specific reasons for not using them

In the vein of relativity I look to maintain a specific soil ecosystem for my plants in my local environment

very happy with my development over the term relative to my environment

that is where it starts and ends for me since I incorporated little pieces of the puzzle over time and kept what worked and abandoned what did not

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on not using mulch. I like how it conserves water, especially with lots of air flow going. It helps with temp regulation and breaks down adding organic matter.

I can see the view that it's a source of disease spores/ insect refuge for the grow. Recenly started to spray the upper surface of my mulch with styler oil to cut down on fruiting spores

I can also see wanting to see the drying/ color change of the soils surface. Mulch also gets in the way when adding amendments

 

[Weird]

You should know me and know that I'm not a shill.

I'm a Karma grower.
Or what you would call a dumb hippie.

So how does my comment involve Gypsy ir cost him anything?

I have no problems with Gypsy - I support him.

The conjecture and attitude is strong with you.

Iwas not trolling, just pointing out what you could be doing to improve your grow. Youknow....helping out

bullshit you asked questions and then make a comment that wasn't reliant on them about cover crops and my applicaiton of science

if you have some science that shows a cover crop adding value in the scenario have at it, if you don't proof positive you came here for no productive reason

who gives a fuck if your a karma grower, is this a karma thread?

its a LOS thread and my pictures are of a 25 watt per square foot grow, you have something relevant to add have at it

 

[Weird]

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on not using mulch. I like how it conserves water, especially with lots of air flow going. It helps with temp regulation and breaks down adding organic matter.

I can see the view that it's a source of disease spores/ insect refuge for the grow. Recenly started to spray the upper surface of my mulch with styler oil to cut down on fruiting spores

I can also see wanting to see the drying/ color change of the soils surface. Mulch also gets in the way when adding amendments

I only use methods in the local environment that matter

in these rooms with these size containers I see no benefit to them

no CO2, no air conditioning, no de-humidification, no monocrop, nothing magical in the container and I bought plastic containers because I don't like how the smart pots perform

may not be typical but as I approach 5 weeks in and and am at about a gpw based on the wattage I use I don't see what the real benefits of doing things differently

should I not be happy with those results based on those metrics? I don't understand the problem it is causing but I am open to understanding it if there is an aspect I am missing out on

 

[the_niño]

LOS for the win!!

 

[redlaser]

I only use methods in the local environment that matter

in these rooms with these size containers I see no benefit to them

no CO2, no air conditioning, no de-humidification, no monocrop, nothing magical in the container and I bought plastic containers because I don't like how the smart pots perform

may not be typical but as I approach 5 weeks in and and am at about a gpw based on the wattage I use I don't see what the real benefits of doing things differently

should I not be happy with those results based on those metrics? I don't understand the problem it is causing but I am open to understanding it if there is an aspect I am missing out on

It sounds like you are getting the most out of what you are using, especially when you consider it's at 25 watts per sq ft.

I've never heard of someone who didn't think they could benefit from using mulch. Unless they were uninformed, which I realize is not your case.

I never use mulch when growing indoors, but I'm running a small greenhouse now that moves a lot of air to cool it during the daytime. Between the airflow, heat, transpiration, and 10-20% humidity levels during the day the soil dries out too fast on the surface. Also not a lot of extra water available here.
Different parameters/ different solutions I suppose

On another subject, what are your nighttime humidity levels? And are you venting most of the time to manage heat/humidity/co2 levels?

Currently with what I have it's difficult to get below 70% humidity at night. Hate to get another dehumidifier, sometimes I just vent all night, even though it doesn't drop humidity. Seems safer to keep higher airflow

 

[Avinash.miles]

so, wierd, ihave to ask... have you used mulch in the past and it didn't help? what material did you use
most pics i remember seeing of your setup look very thick, plants to the walls and very dense canopy, i suppose in such a room you won't have much light/air getting to surface of soil layer and won't need mulch for taht reason
also if you are doing regular topdressings the mulch layer can become irrelevent

 

[Weird]

so, wierd, ihave to ask... have you used mulch in the past and it didn't help? what material did you use
most pics i remember seeing of your setup look very thick, plants to the walls and very dense canopy, i suppose in such a room you won't have much light/air getting to surface of soil layer and won't need mulch for taht reason
also if you are doing regular topdressings the mulch layer can become irrelevent

You figured out a couple of reasons.

I do not mulch in my containers, I top dress layers of amendments compost and ewc at strategic intervals. This control was important to me. I am particular about what I add back, this has given me a variance that works well in my environment as far as nutrition goes. I feel this has lent to better performance over long term recycles.

Early on I realized my canopy does a fine job at shading so cover crops did not seem necessary. I also run as little soil as possible for my plants, which is counter intuitive to the general LOS suggestions but once again I had very specific goals as I transitioned and the biggest one was at the end of the day I wanted to be able to have the same or superior performance. Having made it work for me I stick with the same process.

IMHO/E in recreating ecosystems for longer than I have grown weed you diversity and complexity is relative to size of that ecosystem

in this case It is nothing more than biologically active soil in small containers

everything is bare bones basic and simple because of prohibition, might have to make it all disappear at a moments notice

 

[Avinash.miles]

thanks for the reply...
i like the idea of "as little soil as possible" - alth o right now i'm running BIG soil

in the past i ran kiddie pools, and they are only 12 incehs deep or so... i remember one a few years back in the kiddie pools i did really well and the soilseemed very dense and not as aerated as i thought neccessary - in hindsight that run did very very well as did the one no-tioll run i did just after it
but
seems kind of counter intuitive to the mainstream weed-think out there, which said organics needlight weight well draining and larg amount sof soil....

how much drainage/aeratoin is in your soil? how much (or little) are you getting away with using compared to your footprint?

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Weird, whats the pot size and yield per plant ? Im planning on doing 3G pots, with maybe 2.5G of soil, 16 plants per 1k, 4Fx4F Area, and expecting 1 to 1.5 Zips per plant. and no mulch. LOL

 

[Weird]

It sounds like you are getting the most out of what you are using, especially when you consider it's at 25 watts per sq ft.

I've never heard of someone who didn't think they could benefit from using mulch. Unless they were uninformed, which I realize is not your case.

I never use mulch when growing indoors, but I'm running a small greenhouse now that moves a lot of air to cool it during the daytime. Between the airflow, heat, transpiration, and 10-20% humidity levels during the day the soil dries out too fast on the surface. Also not a lot of extra water available here.
Different parameters/ different solutions I suppose

On another subject, what are your nighttime humidity levels? And are you venting most of the time to manage heat/humidity/co2 levels?

Currently with what I have it's difficult to get below 70% humidity at night. Hate to get another dehumidifier, sometimes I just vent all night, even though it doesn't drop humidity. Seems safer to keep higher airflow

I didn't mulch because I wanted exact control over what went back as far as top dress for consistent performance

As far as the air controls I normally pull air from the room through a carbon filter and push it through sealed lighting, this uses a conservancy of electric and changes air and removes heat

I can't tell you anything but temps because I have a thermometer sensor on my light controller. I set the lights to dim at 85 degrees that is how I deal with the heat of the summer months. If it gets humid I increase airflow if it is dry I can slow it up depending on time of year and heat.

I will lift the containers off the floor and put them on a plastic spacer as it gets colder because the one thing that does seem to be temperature sensitive is the soil.

Other than that cold or hot temps are less important to me as long as the soil temps are o.k.

 

[Weird]

thanks for the reply...
i like the idea of "as little soil as possible" - alth o right now i'm running BIG soil

in the past i ran kiddie pools, and they are only 12 incehs deep or so... i remember one a few years back in the kiddie pools i did really well and the soilseemed very dense and not as aerated as i thought neccessary - in hindsight that run did very very well as did the one no-tioll run i did just after it
but
seems kind of counter intuitive to the mainstream weed-think out there, which said organics needlight weight well draining and larg amount sof soil....

how much drainage/aeratoin is in your soil? how much (or little) are you getting away with using compared to your footprint?

I have a real particularity about containers. I really loved growing in homers, they are a great dimension, sturdy and cheap. I tried LOS in them but it was not enough soil for the yield I wanted so I went to a 10 gallon smart pot and while they worked OK. The amount of soil was reasonable, and used the same basic footprint. I feel for my soil area per plant there was too much soil exposed to air. I went back to hard pots because there are other real benefits to them as well that help and I am sure this is helping reduce the moisture lost to atmosphere.

I use 3 parts promix (or some or all recycled soil of this ratio already) 1 part perlite .5 ewc/.5 compost
This run in the new containers I used promix and build up my soil then added about 20% of active recycled soil from my last runs containers

I went from 10 gallon smart pots to 15 gallon nursery containers that are the same footprint just taller. The extra height to allow plenty of room for top dressing.

I have short ceilings and really worked into this mixed based on plant performance in this room. I purposely started off real light and made incremental changes to see the impact.

This is the point I have gotten to.

In containers this size I find the real measure of heath is can it sustain a worm population. This is the common denominator of my most successful containers of the term. Of course this applies to use over the term and not for a first time planting. I have yet to see if I have life in them yet from the soil I put in.

I made a few of my smart pots worm bins using the soil in them so I can seed these pots if necessary.

 

[Weird]

Weird, whats the pot size and yield per plant ? Im planning on doing 3G pots, with maybe 2.5G of soil, 16 plants per 1k, 4Fx4F Area, and expecting 1 to 1.5 Zips per plant. and no mulch. LOL

I did 5 gallon homers and put 9 under 1000s yield declined after replants and it was hard to get the soil to perform. I ended up doubling the soil volume and using the same amount of plants and that seemed the minimum soil volume at the rate I amend my soils.

Container depth and width can effect how a plant expresses and
I like a container that is taller than it is wide.

This is the nursery pot I decided on 15 gallon tall, 21 plants under an average of 1450 watts of light

that plant is at 37 days I need avg of 2.5 ounces per plant to hit a .gpw I don't see me pulling any sooner than early 60's

Needless to say I am still trying to dial things in and this is a first run in this space but I am very pleased so far.

I got resin on the lens so the picture is a bit blurry but there is a 5 gallon water jug for reference

 

[Rodehazrd]

Hey Guys
Rodehazrd here I'd like to tell you a question.
I often go into bigger containers like my 30 gal totes. I run mostly organic using hydrolized fish and teas for drenches. In small 3 gal pots I alternate during most of the cycle with fish and wc tea then humic acid then in flower a little kool bloom to water in a gypsum and wc top dress. As the pot gets bigger I am wanting to combine these drenches in order to get it all in the right stage. I have never ph adjusted anything. I use a lot of calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate and gypsum. My ph is always 7 -6.8 in the runoff. So do I harm my microbeasties in the WC tea by adding Humic acids? Kool bloom? Silica?
Any advice would be most kindly received.

 

[Avinash.miles]

imo kool bloom could be harming microbiota in your soil

 

[PaulieWaulie]

I did 5 gallon homers and put 9 under 1000s yield declined after replants and it was hard to get the soil to perform. I ended up doubling the soil volume and using the same amount of plants and that seemed the minimum soil volume at the rate I amend my soils.

Container depth and width can effect how a plant expresses and
I like a container that is taller than it is wide.

This is the nursery pot I decided on 15 gallon tall, 21 plants under an average of 1450 watts of light

that plant is at 37 days I need avg of 2.5 ounces per plant to hit a .gpw I don't see me pulling any sooner than early 60's

Needless to say I am still trying to dial things in and this is a first run in this space but I am very pleased so far.

I got resin on the lens so the picture is a bit blurry but there is a 5 gallon water jug for reference

View Image

Thanks for sharing Weird,

Since you slowly ramp up your watts it gets a bit hard to compare your watts to mine. what foot print does your 21 plant count cover?

or another way put, how many sq ft per plant.

I like to not slowly increase watts simply for the purpose of easily keeping track of things.

For example 1K Watts = 4 by 4ft, equals 16 plants = 1 plant per sq ft = 60 Watts per sq foot, and then whatever yield per plant/per sq foot. so far my best is 1 oz per plant(no larf inc.) = 1 lbs/1K (.5GPW), so pretty sad. But nonetheless it makes it easy to compare and see what works and doesn't