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Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
- Start date
it's a page view thing; happens from long threads with lots of deleted posts
don't worry you are not missing anything its all here
Well after getting to page 647 of the original thread I finally had to register & post! This is probably a bit of a ramble but I can't resist...
"Wow" is my over-all response at the collection of valuable organic gardening information in here. The stuff collected & discussed here scales far beyond simply growing Cannabis (though what a resource it is for just that). I can't express anything other then sincere amazement & gratitude to all the posters throughout the 4-5 years this series of thread has been going (I've only read up to somewhere in 2013, hah!).
My timing of discovering this thread in is personally amusing to me. I have recently moved to rural south-east British Columbia onto several acres of family land & am trying to pursue organic gardening & eventually farming. Years ago as a teenager in the inner city I grew weed indoors hydroponically - For some reason like many folks I never made the link to the result of the gardening/agricultural world & growing Cannabis. I actually had some sort of reasoning that the specialized hydro grow-store products were necessary because Cannabis was such a highly bred specialized cash crop. Hah, go figure.
When it came time to resume cultivating Cannabis near a decade later I of course want/wanted to pursue it organically as I was trying to pursue a lifestyle & occupation where organic food production was central -- though I had and still have SO MUCH to learn about it all. I realized my knowledge of hydroponic growing was incompatible and useless to me. So, I sat down to do some google searches and find information on those experienced in growing Cannabis organically. As one might imagine the main stuff I encountered was subcools soil mix & several modified recipes and so on. Well, I wanted to get started soon & had/have a lot of other projects + work so I was satisfied giving it a shot -- Not having to micromanage an indoor garden while engaged in other bigger more "important" projects was an appealing claim of this soil method. Since I was assembling organic amendments & starting to produce volumes of vermicompost & compost for my families land it seemed a easy way to go.
So eventually (a month ago?) before finding this set of threads I assembled a mix roughly consisting of this (can't remember the exact ratios off the top of my head -- that lies written down in a notebook, but fairly typical ones)
2 parts Canadian Sphagnum
1 part compost
1 part EWC
1 1/2 part vermiculite.
Kelp meal, bone meal, blood meal, agricultural lime, bat guano, rock phosphate
Azomite, Canadian Glacial Rock Dust, Epsom Salts
myko's & alleged humic acid from leonardite (i know, i know...).
I mixed it all up and watered it with some ACT.
Well needless to say if I had read this thread first I probably would of avoided using rock phosphate, found a real source of fulvic & humic, skipped the epsom salts & used feather meal & other alternatives over bone/blood meals. Especially considering in my location I have access (albeit not always at the BEST prices) to pretty much every organic ammendment under the sun.
Anyhow, I kept poking deeper & deeper into subsoil recipes & so on - bored at night & hungry for information. At one point I found a flippant but accurate criticism saying "subcools super soil is a start but it really isn't focused on the true aspects of organic, focusing on the soil micro-biology". Following that was a link to MicrobeMan's website & a link to a thread in the organics forum here in ICmag which itself linked to the ROLS thread(s).
Well shit, I thought. I needlessly assembled a soil this way & spent some money I didn't need to or could of spent better. However I still had tons of EWC & compost, my land grows comfry by the bucket load (I was kind of stunned people were BUYING comfry! Shit come on over, I'll give you all you can ever want! Also planting horse/marestail? Eek, if your children inherent that land they'll hate you.) and I happen to have 4 aloe plants in my window sills plus I do home winemaking/cidermaking & brewing so barely seed? Bring it on!
Anyhow, I decided to "cut" my soil with extra compost & EWC to hopefully reduce the effects of the over-ammending for the first run of the soil. I think its rawer ammendments have composted to a stable enough form to transplant to when my plants are ready. So inspired by what I've read here I've got some 7 gallon pots (ain't got $$ and patience for smart pots but my tiniest drill bit and some wasted time will suffice) I plan to start doing no-till ROLS runs in. I'm a bit worried this run with this "supersoil"(albeit now diluted with EWC/Compost) is going to be a bit harsh until the soil microbiology has a chance to really get going but I do have a unammended home-made potting mix high in EWC & compost to start my seeds in & grow before transplanting.
Woah, rant over. Anyhow that's my "story" and for now I can't imagine I have much to teach anyone. I'm a young man making his start in the world of organic gardening & agriculture hoping to cultivate these practices in a sustainable manner that also is restorative to the land its done upon so I'm thrilled to discover such a collection of information & exchanging between likeminded people.
P.S. On the subject of no-tilling (in general) - The way I've heard it put best by better growers & farmers than I is that its always a compromise. For those growing commercially to be able to pay their bills things like reliable germination rates are very important - criticisms of no-till I've heard often involve trying to sew seed into a crimped cover crop or certain mulches can introduce variance in production that isn't tenable. As such broadforking & light/shalllow soil disturbance as soil prep is often seen as needed. What is universally decried is soil inversion & use of tools that create hard-pan formation underneath the top layer of soil - but shallow aeration & disturbance of the soil is often seen as essential for pragmatic purposes. I don't think there is a perfect balance between pragmatics, the demands of the human-created world, & "ideal" ecology - or if there is, I'm really fucking far away from it, hah!
"Wow" is my over-all response at the collection of valuable organic gardening information in here. The stuff collected & discussed here scales far beyond simply growing Cannabis (though what a resource it is for just that). I can't express anything other then sincere amazement & gratitude to all the posters throughout the 4-5 years this series of thread has been going (I've only read up to somewhere in 2013, hah!).
My timing of discovering this thread in is personally amusing to me. I have recently moved to rural south-east British Columbia onto several acres of family land & am trying to pursue organic gardening & eventually farming. Years ago as a teenager in the inner city I grew weed indoors hydroponically - For some reason like many folks I never made the link to the result of the gardening/agricultural world & growing Cannabis. I actually had some sort of reasoning that the specialized hydro grow-store products were necessary because Cannabis was such a highly bred specialized cash crop. Hah, go figure.
When it came time to resume cultivating Cannabis near a decade later I of course want/wanted to pursue it organically as I was trying to pursue a lifestyle & occupation where organic food production was central -- though I had and still have SO MUCH to learn about it all. I realized my knowledge of hydroponic growing was incompatible and useless to me. So, I sat down to do some google searches and find information on those experienced in growing Cannabis organically. As one might imagine the main stuff I encountered was subcools soil mix & several modified recipes and so on. Well, I wanted to get started soon & had/have a lot of other projects + work so I was satisfied giving it a shot -- Not having to micromanage an indoor garden while engaged in other bigger more "important" projects was an appealing claim of this soil method. Since I was assembling organic amendments & starting to produce volumes of vermicompost & compost for my families land it seemed a easy way to go.
So eventually (a month ago?) before finding this set of threads I assembled a mix roughly consisting of this (can't remember the exact ratios off the top of my head -- that lies written down in a notebook, but fairly typical ones)
2 parts Canadian Sphagnum
1 part compost
1 part EWC
1 1/2 part vermiculite.
Kelp meal, bone meal, blood meal, agricultural lime, bat guano, rock phosphate
Azomite, Canadian Glacial Rock Dust, Epsom Salts
myko's & alleged humic acid from leonardite (i know, i know...).
I mixed it all up and watered it with some ACT.
Well needless to say if I had read this thread first I probably would of avoided using rock phosphate, found a real source of fulvic & humic, skipped the epsom salts & used feather meal & other alternatives over bone/blood meals. Especially considering in my location I have access (albeit not always at the BEST prices) to pretty much every organic ammendment under the sun.
Anyhow, I kept poking deeper & deeper into subsoil recipes & so on - bored at night & hungry for information. At one point I found a flippant but accurate criticism saying "subcools super soil is a start but it really isn't focused on the true aspects of organic, focusing on the soil micro-biology". Following that was a link to MicrobeMan's website & a link to a thread in the organics forum here in ICmag which itself linked to the ROLS thread(s).
Well shit, I thought. I needlessly assembled a soil this way & spent some money I didn't need to or could of spent better. However I still had tons of EWC & compost, my land grows comfry by the bucket load (I was kind of stunned people were BUYING comfry! Shit come on over, I'll give you all you can ever want! Also planting horse/marestail? Eek, if your children inherent that land they'll hate you.) and I happen to have 4 aloe plants in my window sills plus I do home winemaking/cidermaking & brewing so barely seed? Bring it on!
Anyhow, I decided to "cut" my soil with extra compost & EWC to hopefully reduce the effects of the over-ammending for the first run of the soil. I think its rawer ammendments have composted to a stable enough form to transplant to when my plants are ready. So inspired by what I've read here I've got some 7 gallon pots (ain't got $$ and patience for smart pots but my tiniest drill bit and some wasted time will suffice) I plan to start doing no-till ROLS runs in. I'm a bit worried this run with this "supersoil"(albeit now diluted with EWC/Compost) is going to be a bit harsh until the soil microbiology has a chance to really get going but I do have a unammended home-made potting mix high in EWC & compost to start my seeds in & grow before transplanting.
Woah, rant over. Anyhow that's my "story" and for now I can't imagine I have much to teach anyone. I'm a young man making his start in the world of organic gardening & agriculture hoping to cultivate these practices in a sustainable manner that also is restorative to the land its done upon so I'm thrilled to discover such a collection of information & exchanging between likeminded people.
P.S. On the subject of no-tilling (in general) - The way I've heard it put best by better growers & farmers than I is that its always a compromise. For those growing commercially to be able to pay their bills things like reliable germination rates are very important - criticisms of no-till I've heard often involve trying to sew seed into a crimped cover crop or certain mulches can introduce variance in production that isn't tenable. As such broadforking & light/shalllow soil disturbance as soil prep is often seen as needed. What is universally decried is soil inversion & use of tools that create hard-pan formation underneath the top layer of soil - but shallow aeration & disturbance of the soil is often seen as essential for pragmatic purposes. I don't think there is a perfect balance between pragmatics, the demands of the human-created world, & "ideal" ecology - or if there is, I'm really fucking far away from it, hah!
I'm in a jam looking for some help.
I ran a decent organic soil this year in 35 gal smart pots. I f'd them up by adding what I thought were organic bottled nutes a few times throughout the run. I had planned on re using soil.
I picked up 50 lb bags of Kelp, Alfalfa, Bone Meal, Powdered Dolomite, Blood Meal, and a small bag of high phos bat guano.
I read in here somewhere to use one cup of each of those per 10 gal soil. If I empty the pots onto a tarp and mix 35 gal at a time then let it set for two weeks. Will that work? I would rather figure out how to top dress it and extend the sides of the pots somehow. Though 35 gal are rather large for indoor?
As for top dressing all that is it best to just add a little every week or all at once? If I do it all at once as a top dress seems like it would just turn into a mucky mess? Though a little every week say two to three Tbs each would be more manageable. Then just keep adding mulch on top.
There are live worms in the pots right now, the soil is teaming with life actually. Some even sprouted shrooms in the dark room.
Thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
I ran a decent organic soil this year in 35 gal smart pots. I f'd them up by adding what I thought were organic bottled nutes a few times throughout the run. I had planned on re using soil.
I picked up 50 lb bags of Kelp, Alfalfa, Bone Meal, Powdered Dolomite, Blood Meal, and a small bag of high phos bat guano.
I read in here somewhere to use one cup of each of those per 10 gal soil. If I empty the pots onto a tarp and mix 35 gal at a time then let it set for two weeks. Will that work? I would rather figure out how to top dress it and extend the sides of the pots somehow. Though 35 gal are rather large for indoor?
As for top dressing all that is it best to just add a little every week or all at once? If I do it all at once as a top dress seems like it would just turn into a mucky mess? Though a little every week say two to three Tbs each would be more manageable. Then just keep adding mulch on top.
There are live worms in the pots right now, the soil is teaming with life actually. Some even sprouted shrooms in the dark room.
Thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Thanks Weird
So I did the top dress 2 weeks ago. I now have rooted cuts sitting in a aero cloner. Is it ok to plant those direct or will the top dress burn them?
I applied kelp, alfalfa, blood, bone meals and powdered dol lime rate of 1 cup each pot. This was applied to top of mulch layer (decomposing grass hay) and I just loosely shook layer with fingers so it would migrate to soil layer. Then watered in.
I could take donor soil from another pot and use that in the transplant hole in amended pot. Meaning the fresh young cutting would have mild un-amended soil to start out in. The donor soil is very much alive as well.
I should note that it's been about 3 weeks since chop and the root balls are loosening up. Or being decomposed rather. I left about 6" of stock above soil and if I wiggle that back and forth can feel it loosen quite a bit. Pretty cool considering my old style with chems left solid stems and root balls in soil that were hard to break up into flower beds. So some living thing in there is breaking it down.
Thank folks for any advice.
So I did the top dress 2 weeks ago. I now have rooted cuts sitting in a aero cloner. Is it ok to plant those direct or will the top dress burn them?
I applied kelp, alfalfa, blood, bone meals and powdered dol lime rate of 1 cup each pot. This was applied to top of mulch layer (decomposing grass hay) and I just loosely shook layer with fingers so it would migrate to soil layer. Then watered in.
I could take donor soil from another pot and use that in the transplant hole in amended pot. Meaning the fresh young cutting would have mild un-amended soil to start out in. The donor soil is very much alive as well.
I should note that it's been about 3 weeks since chop and the root balls are loosening up. Or being decomposed rather. I left about 6" of stock above soil and if I wiggle that back and forth can feel it loosen quite a bit. Pretty cool considering my old style with chems left solid stems and root balls in soil that were hard to break up into flower beds. So some living thing in there is breaking it down.
Thank folks for any advice.
loveweed1978
New member
ADVICE NEEDED - RECYCLING SOIL WITH VERTICILIUM OR FUSARIUM, IS IT POSSIBLE ?
ADVICE NEEDED - RECYCLING SOIL WITH VERTICILIUM OR FUSARIUM, IS IT POSSIBLE ?
Hi everybody,
I live in France and grow outdoor. This year I did my first no-till and I d like to recycle my soil into bigger pots for next spring.
This is my first post but I have been enjoying the site for a while.
Thanks for posting so much incredible information.
This year I did my own mix and used some forest soil. About 50 % of the mix. That was too much but that I realised later : too high acidity and verticilium in the soil !!
I lost totally a Panama Haze that did not survive the virus.
But I could harvest a good Hash Plant and Kali China. All plants had clear root damage signs. Hereunder are some pictures. Younger leaves around the buds tend to dry out as if roots could not suck enough water from the soil bcz of the virus :
The hash plant that was quite ok :
The Panama Haze that eventually died : a purple stain went up the trunk and killed the plant all through the sap flow
And the Kali China :
So can you confirm that it was verticilium ?
Can I reuse this soil, and neutralize the virus with beneficial bacteria and by putting it like at 25 % or even less in the new mix ?
Give me your thoughts, I would regret throwing it away cause it's alive and a good bas but if need be I ll discard.
Thanks for your time
ADVICE NEEDED - RECYCLING SOIL WITH VERTICILIUM OR FUSARIUM, IS IT POSSIBLE ?
Hi everybody,
I live in France and grow outdoor. This year I did my first no-till and I d like to recycle my soil into bigger pots for next spring.
This is my first post but I have been enjoying the site for a while.
Thanks for posting so much incredible information.
This year I did my own mix and used some forest soil. About 50 % of the mix. That was too much but that I realised later : too high acidity and verticilium in the soil !!
I lost totally a Panama Haze that did not survive the virus.
But I could harvest a good Hash Plant and Kali China. All plants had clear root damage signs. Hereunder are some pictures. Younger leaves around the buds tend to dry out as if roots could not suck enough water from the soil bcz of the virus :
The hash plant that was quite ok :
The Panama Haze that eventually died : a purple stain went up the trunk and killed the plant all through the sap flow
And the Kali China :
So can you confirm that it was verticilium ?
Can I reuse this soil, and neutralize the virus with beneficial bacteria and by putting it like at 25 % or even less in the new mix ?
Give me your thoughts, I would regret throwing it away cause it's alive and a good bas but if need be I ll discard.
Thanks for your time
R
Robrites
I'd start over with new soil.Hi everybody,
I live in France and grow outdoor. This year I did my first no-till and I d like to recycle my soil into bigger pots for next spring.
This is my first post but I have been enjoying the site for a while.
Thanks for posting so much incredible information.
This year I did my own mix and used some forest soil. About 50 % of the mix. That was too much but that I realised later : too high acidity and verticilium in the soil !!
I lost totally a Panama Haze that did not survive the virus.
But I could harvest a good Hash Plant and Kali China. All plants had clear root damage signs. Hereunder are some pictures. Younger leaves around the buds tend to dry out as if roots could not suck enough water from the soil bcz of the virus :
The hash plant that was quite ok :
View attachment 385520
View attachment 385521
The Panama Haze that eventually died : a purple stain went up the trunk and killed the plant all through the sap flow
View attachment 385522
View attachment 385523
View attachment 385524
View attachment 385525
And the Kali China :
View attachment 385526
View attachment 385527
So can you confirm that it was verticilium ?
Can I reuse this soil, and neutralize the virus with beneficial bacteria and by putting it like at 25 % or even less in the new mix ?
Give me your thoughts, I would regret throwing it away cause it's alive and a good bas but if need be I ll discard.
Thanks for your time
Verticillium wilt, much like its cousin fusarium wilt, lives in the soil. It enters plants through the roots and is drawn up to stems, leaves and fruit through water uptake. At the same time, its robbing the plant of moisture.
Verticillium is patient. Without a host, it can exist for several years in what arborists call “survival structures.” Once a host-plant is introduced, the mycelium multiply exponentially over a number of seasons. The invasion spreads and intensifies as dead materials fall to the surrounding ground and reinfect the soil.
In its over-winter mode, the mycelium of the fungus will survive in plant debris and beneath mulch.
User_Error
New member
Sorry for being way off topic here but, I trust the opinions of the posters on this particular thread more than any of the threads more related to sourcing genetics. My question is simply this: Which are the "best" seed banks out there, and (if inclined to take the time to answer) why? Or, are seed banks the best way to acquire fabulous genetics? Sorry again for being way off topic, I just think that it might be counter-productive, asking questions outside of our ROLS and no-till community. Thanks to all.
Samuel Caldwell
Well-known member
Awesome. What size containers are you using, Weird? I can't wait to get my no-till up and running again.
impressive as usual weird, here is my lil contribution:
50 gallons ish kiddie pools
recycled & reamended soil, will be no-tilling at least one more run in these.... tomorrow is day 60 and next run of plants is ready to transplant and train
50 gallons ish kiddie pools
recycled & reamended soil, will be no-tilling at least one more run in these.... tomorrow is day 60 and next run of plants is ready to transplant and train
Samuel Caldwell
Well-known member
Beauties!
I assume you both top dress from time to time? Worms in the bins? Guess I'll go back and read this thread again. It's been awhile since I've been around here.
I assume you both top dress from time to time? Worms in the bins? Guess I'll go back and read this thread again. It's been awhile since I've been around here.
i topdress before i flip, no adding during the bloom cycle tho
yes lots of worms in my kiddie pools
yes lots of worms in my kiddie pools
yes i use em1/labs and make fpe's and spray them
spraying em1/labs dilluted in water is generally beneficial and most likely anti-fungal
just made a big batch of "em5" recipe from terraganix website - used hot hot hot peppers we grew last season, garlic, ginger, alcohol, vinegar, em1, sugars.... maybe a pinch of sea salt
http://www.teraganix.com/EM5-Receipe-s/260.htm
havent tested it yet, but soon.... will need to keep this mix away from neem and wont spray even within 2 weeks of one another, because the sulfur from garlic may react badly w neem oil
been making my own green cleaner using sals suds dr bronners cleaning prodcut, citric acid, iso 99%, and essential oils
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=335002
also i made a yucca/neem slurry and mix with essential oils, iso and some soap (sals suds is great imo).... but now use 70% neem oil with surfactants included, it blends into water super easy, and saves me the yucca extract (thermex70) for other applications
roughly per 1 gal :
.5oz soap, 2ml essential oils, 1 oz iso 99 or 91%, 1oz neem 70%
per 1 gal
i use em1/em2
Which of those is your routine for prevention and which is for infection? Can you recommend a reasonably priced essential oil online?
If i understand correctly you bounce one week from the neem oil, dr bronnners soap, iso alcohol and essential oils to the home made dr green and thats it? Can you explain the use of alcohol thats new to me?
I'm battling an outbreak of WPM on gifted clones and have applied one foliar of whole milk 10:1 water:milk hoping the trace lactob will help. The mold comes and goes even with neem oil sprays at lights out every 3 days with a dallop of soap....
I have some rice wash i am fermenting that i will add to a gallon of milk for a large amount of lactobaccillus. im unfamiliar with the best uses either by itself or with FPE/FPJ.
If you dont mind going over what your experience if any with prevention of fungus/pesticide outbreaks is and why and how you use the products you listed id really appreciate that.
Sorry if these questions have been answered elsewhere or sound stupid
i use the all interchangeably really, best prevention imo is healthy happy plants
im sure you can find cheap essential oils, read the threads i posted iirc seaf0ur gives links to his sourches in the green cleaner thread (quoted below)
read the recipes and instructions on theunconventionalfarmer.com
make your labs start using it and multiplying it and making ferments
same as with pest... best prevention of fungal pathogen is healthy plants, keep environment in check (airflow in terms of circulation AND exchange), don't over saturate soil....
im sure you can find cheap essential oils, read the threads i posted iirc seaf0ur gives links to his sourches in the green cleaner thread (quoted below)
read the recipes and instructions on theunconventionalfarmer.com
make your labs start using it and multiplying it and making ferments
same as with pest... best prevention of fungal pathogen is healthy plants, keep environment in check (airflow in terms of circulation AND exchange), don't over saturate soil....
Last edited:
Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35
gorgeous girls there weird, miles
this is still an awesome thread even when it goes quiet for awhile
this is still an awesome thread even when it goes quiet for awhile
