Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[Baked Alaskan]

I have used burned bones in my compost. Burned bone is supposed to be high in P&K and I'm sure calcium. It was many years ago and all I remember is my plants didn't die. Also it burned slower than wood. Wish I had better info for everyone

 

[milkyjoe]

Bone char is a good source of p and k....but if you are using compost you damn sure don't need it. When farming mags talk about compost they are thinking at most ton an acre...they are not thinking about 1/3 of your mix. Bio char holds a shit lad of water...is kinda like an apartment building for your microbe work force...it is good shit. Bone char...kinda depends on what that bone was fed...you want an industrial fed bone?

 

[Payaso]

All reports are definitely in that bio char is the preferred additive. Adding any kind of bone or animal matter becomes problematic as to whether or not it is actually an organic substance. After all the point is to be completely organic, right?

 

[Payaso]

Pyrolysis

Pyrolysis

The whole subject of char is fascinating. There is a big benefit to using bio char to your soils, whether small or large scale.

In fact the science of it all is Pyrolysis, which you can read about more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis

Here is an infographic that shows the simple concept. This process is also used in other industrial applications, but I'm just referring to the production of bio char from plant matter.

 

[Baked Alaskan]

Ya, I wouldn't know if bone or animal parts from the industrial processing industry can be called organic. I used old moose bones from the woods.

 

[milkyjoe]

You might should ask yourself these days...does this process release net carbon to the atmosphere or sequester it into the soil. I don't know the answer...but moose bone char would be fine in my book if the answer to that question is into the earth. Then againn wtf diff does my book make.

 

[one.sixoneeight]

try putting the bone char in the worm bin and let them have a go at it first.

 

[Microbeman]

One more post about composting meat products and this thread will be closed.

Final warning.

Did my post about EM fermentation get mistaken for meat or did I just imagine that I posted? I'm getting old enough for either.

 

[Payaso]

My apologies MicrobeMan...here is your re-posted comment:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Quote:
Originally Posted by heady blunts
no... i guess i can just put the em1 in with the molasses.

i was thinking of soaking the material in molasses water then injecting em1 into a couple holes id make through the material---like compost starter.

Reply from Microbeman:

You are far better off if you have the patience to ferment the EM1 with molasses for a week. Then you can dilute that 250:1 with water and spray your compost with it.

I think you know where to find my fermentation methods. [/FONT]

 

[trichrider]

animal bone char is made with bonemeal, not introduced as fat or the 'm' word...lol

also...

Biochar is not ‘terra preta’

The biochar initiative was inspired by the discovery of ‘terra preta’ (black earth) in the Amazon basin [22, 23], at sites of pre-Columbian settlements (between 450BC and 950AD), made by adding charcoal, bone, and manure to the soil over many, many years (see Fig. 1). Besides charcoal, it contains abundant pottery shards, plant residues, animal faeces, fish and animal bones. The soil’s depth can reach 2 metres, and is reported capable of regenerating itself at the rate of about 1 cm a year. Similar sites are found in Benin and Liberia in West Africa, in the South African savannahs, and even in Roman Britain. According to local farmers in the Amazon, productivity on the terra preta is much higher than surrounding soils.

my airfloat biochar is put into worm bins where the wrigglers inoculate and eliminate the nitrogen sink prior to use, not into compost pile...dog gets bone!

 

[milkyjoe]

I am sure there is no fat in that fish though.

 

[Mikell]

Well this took a turn for the better..

 

[Coba]

It's not just the hormones and stuff fed to the animals in my opinion.

But also, all the industrial sanitizers, lubricants and cleaning chemicals used in processing and cleaning the by-product's. The mechanical separators, conveyor belts, hoppers, bins, transport containers, e t c ... I've seen a clip where this factory had nozzles of chemicals positioned strategically placed, all over like fire sprinklers, throughout the production lines ... the sanitizer solution was in a constant spray mode. Spraying everything from the product, the equipment to the floors... The FDA allows a certain ppm of these sanitizer solution chemicals in food products. They let us eat it. Google: "lean finely textured beef". Their regulations are more relaxed when it's fertilizer.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

You are far better off if you have the patience to ferment the EM1 with molasses for a week. Then you can dilute that 250:1 with water and spray your compost with it.
- Microbeman

^^^^^^
true story

 

[Scrappy4]

I bought and used bio char on my last mix. I bought it from a hydro store and it had a warning that it could cause ph to rise. To help off set that, and to N charge the bio char, I soaked it in water with a lot of fish (neptunes harvest) for a couple days before adding it to my mix. So far so good.

Plus this mix has no lime or bone meal added. it's pro mix, so there is some in it. Instead I used oyster shell for calcium, and most all my other inputs have calcium. Like neem meal, comfrey, and kelp meal. I do have some fish bone meal, but like a good stoner forgot to add it to the mix, lol.

And I've found that for me, with a very high ph water, (8.5-9.5) neem meal in the mix and an occasional neem meal tea will help lower or stabilize ph due to neem meals sulfur content. I don't really monitor ph, but I do use things that lower ph in soil, like molasses, or anything fermented with molasses and em1. Fish is another, although I just use fish in veg.

You have to be careful when you read on these pages, because our water sources vary widely, so what works for someone with a ph6.5 water, might not be best for someone whose water is ph 9. But with a little research and effort high ph grows can and do rock.

The biggest deal with high ph water is to limit lime and lime type calcium in the mix, since it's already in your water. And to use more products with sulfur to lower ph, and still provide calcium. (gypsum, neem meal, fish)

 

[trichrider]

yes sir, water quality should be the first concern of anyone growing.

 

[Weird]

They said PH didn't matter (burn one and the other organic gurus of times past) because their mixes buffered PH. Even promix has buffering capacities out of the bag.

Well designed organic systems should have a buffering capacity although it is not without limits.

You should know the baseline PH of your water source and the effects of PH of your amendments/additives when you are running organics. They should be COMPATIBLE.

If not you need to address it.

I was non nonchalant when I was using LOS and started using organic molasses and it fucked up my growth. It was really spiking PH (like EJ catalyst) and was hard to cycle to a reasonable range.

I immediately made a batch and checked PH and realized I fucked up by not changing the effect of a new input (regular black strap to organic) and not checking effect of PH.

Should my soil been expected to buffer PH 11? well I always bubbled EJ teas to a reasonable PH range (ty jiggywhompus) for greatest efficiency and found when I didn't I got inconsistent results.

I think is just lends to offer insight that balance organics systems need inputs within given ranges to maintain harmonic balance.

Ignoring this causes unpredictable results, some of which discourage the first time organic users who get lack luster results

I am sure PH has played a role in more than one first time organic users efforts.

 

[milkyjoe]

I would argue it is the alkalinity of the water that matters as opposed to the pH. Bicarbonates will mess you up because they tie up cations. If the alkalinity of your water is above 100 you start to make it difficult for microbes balance pH of the soil...you can play the sulfate v carbonate game. But above 150 or so you need to adress water quality itself

 

[il19z8rn4li1]

I would argue it is the alkalinity of the water that matters as opposed to the pH. Bicarbonates will mess you up because they tie up cations. If the alkalinity of your water is above 100 you start to make it difficult for microbes balance pH of the soil...you can play the sulfate v carbonate game. But above 150 or so you need to adress water quality itself

BOOM thats what im talking about Milky

I have the same exact mind set.


Allow me to explain my thought process on this and why .



I only use rain water... WHY?? well ill never have HARD WATER then
and will certainly not have any carbonates in my water to tie up
cations.


Growing a veggie garden for some 7 years now, I have always
wondered WHY I didnt have to pH my water for the veggies OUTSIDE
but always had to pH my stuff INSIDE... (my soil pH was fucked on the inside containers, but my outside soil was in check... go figure... nature knows what shes doing hahah)


being that the water was the same... after testing run off...
I found my run off from the containers to be way off... like 8-9.

Then doing the half cup of water, then topped off with distilled water and then pH checked.. i found same results... HIGH pH in my
containers... and spot on 7 pH for my outside soil...


whenever I pHed the indoor containers... it would run off DECENT... but still high.



I then realized that after long study and reading... and really
diving into IONs and the molecular point of view of things to really
understand WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING WHEN YOU MIX X water
WITH x soil...

i figured it out lol



since my water is not hard at all.. ppm is like 5...
the water would always grab the pH of the surrounding area...

this is when it clicked for me... and WHY i never had to pH my
veggie garden... and had amazing crops... as oppose to indoors... when i didnt adjust pH things were IFFY and wishy washy... not
steady constant growth and health, you know.



Granted this all deals with RAIN WATER so it usually has a VERY LOW ppm or hardness level... which allows its pH to sway and swing to whatever its surrounds are, WITH EASE.



water source is steady and your still having problems with your plants... its not the water source at that point.. like my issues with the indoor gardens... I found my SOIL was the issue and NOT
my water or the fact that I woudl pH my water to 6... to compensate that 8-9.. which i found repeated didnt do SHIT to bring the pH down.. (my pHing the water to 6, since its hardness/alkalinity was MOOT at buffering)


i needed my soil to be in the correct buffer range.



Things are smoooth now.



Bubbling water, i have noticed with me at least, usually always
dials that water into the perfect pH range and nice microbial herd


granted this is still all anecdotal imo.. but i figured id share my experience and my reasoning or train of thought...

 

[milkyjoe]

Yea...I just figure science is not allowed in this thread so I try to avoid it. But I will bet you high water pH from high bicarbs leads to low sap pH in the plant itself. But you got to understand chemistry to get that...so maybe not allowed in this thread