Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[TheFarm]

be thankful for problems because they make us smarter and disagreements because they make us wiser

 

[Goatstroker]

I'm thankful for my dog because he's a light sleeper

 

[milkyjoe]

Some people for some reason throw away tea base material or compost it. Which organic materials are you having with getting to be extracted or dissolved by water that you want to add to plants? I'd like to know

I do not want water soluble salts. I want something my microbes have to digest to make it soluble.

Take comfrey tea for example...the K is easily water soluble. The Ca is tied up as calcium pectate. You make a tea you get lots of K and not much Ca. And since it is soluble the plant will have no choice but to take up the K. Now you might be creating an imbalace.

You take away that let the plant decide by its root exudates thing...just like bottle growers do.

So unless you know exactly what your plant needs nute teas don't seem like a good idea to me

 

[Luther Burbank]

Fast mulch? Really? That's not a thing. Soaking your mulch in water and watering with it is going to do very little, especially in terms of what mulching is/does. It's certainly not a technique that has its own term. You're doing a whole lot of esoteric talk that might impress some newer posters here, but I recognize empty talk when I hear it. It gets real exhausting fighting this battle in organics every six months when someone who doesn't understand science comes in and tries to make some name for their ego.

I'm sorry for being confrontational. If this were just a disagreement on methods I wouldn't, but you've been dropping made up facts and stories in all your posts. Making feel good statements about problems & disagreements or claiming you have a team of paid assistants doesn't change that. No one with a team of paid assistants would make the claims you have.

 

[Weird]

This has always been my point. If I make a tea with water then only water soluble stuff is going to be in the tea. Ions...or you can say salts. No different than stuff in a bottle of AN.

Much better to use not soluble but available stuff. Make microbes process it. Or at least add some humic/fulvic acid to chelate it. So yea, imo (for what that is worth), mulch is superior to nutrient teas.

And I am not talking aerated biology teas...I got no issue with those. Done right they will increase microbe activity and make things available in the proper form

I think discounting teas as equivalent to a bottle of AN is counter intuitive especially in the regard to natural system.

Organic matter left on the top of soil encounters rain and other environmental conditions. In natural environments organic matter is broken down and assimilated in a variety of natural methods.

LOS is taking one (yet important) part of the plants environment, the soil food web, and following a natural paradigm.

If replicating every facet of nature to the minutia was absolutely critical then it would not be so successful indoors in its various incarnations.

With this said, building a soil and maintaining it are two different animals, as is the remediation of existing soils. Teas are very effective and can be used in sustainable organic models in conjunction with LOS.

To look at LOS methodology as wrong or right as based on as close to natural occurring systems will only keep people from embracing sustainable organic farming, which is more important than any one's individual results.


IMHO, Its not just about growing the best pot but about doing it responsibly in regards to our shared environment. For example, plating invasive and foreign species to support your personal LOS endeavors is as irresponsible as using too much nitrogen in your fields.

I use these as examples to illustrate how perspective in regards to natural systems is not simply one dimensional.

 

[TheFarm]

I do not want water soluble salts. I want something my microbes have to digest to make it soluble.

Take comfrey tea for example...the K is easily water soluble. The Ca is tied up as calcium pectate. You make a tea you get lots of K and not much Ca. And since it is soluble the plant will have no choice but to take up the K. Now you might be creating an imbalace.

You take away that let the plant decide by its root exudates thing...just like bottle growers do.

So unless you know exactly what your plant needs nute teas don't seem like a good idea to me

If I topdress with compost am I adding water soluble salts?

 

[Former Guest]

I was reading about dead mulching and wanted to use leaf litter and eventually comfrey leaves I have outside in a large container up on a bench where it won't get into the ground fed with well composted chicken manure from my chickens. I see a lot of talk about living mulches and it sounds great but I have some questions. if I have a thick canopy where it is very shaded underneath, would it be more beneficial in my situation to use the leaf litter and comfrey leaves? I would like to use top dressings so how well does that work with a living mulch? would I have to weed a spot to put my dressing down? I'm at the beginning stages and at a crossroad. between dead and living mulches. thank you

 

[TheFarm]

I think discounting teas as equivalent to a bottle of AN is counter intuitive especially in the regard to natural system.

Organic matter left on the top of soil encounters rain and other environmental conditions. In natural environments organic matter is broken down and assimilated in a variety of natural methods.

LOS is taking one (yet important) part of the plants environment, the soil food web, and following a natural paradigm.

If replicating every facet of nature to the minutia was absolutely critical then it would not be so successful indoors in its various incarnations.

With this said, building a soil and maintaining it are two different animals, as is the remediation of existing soils. Teas are very effective and can be used in sustainable organic models in conjunction with LOS.

To look at LOS methodology as wrong or right as based on as close to natural occurring systems will only keep people from embracing sustainable organic farming, which is more important than any one's individual results.


IMHO, Its not just about growing the best pot but about doing it responsibly in regards to our shared environment. For example, plating invasive and foreign species to support your personal LOS endeavors is as irresponsible as using too much nitrogen in your fields.

I use these as examples to illustrate how perspective in regards to natural systems is not simply one dimensional.

if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted

thanks for an insightful post, you're always a good read, I experiment with hydro/hybrid setups with other plants indoors but with cannabis my mindset often forgets the toil and skill of the indoor producer, and I think mother nature in my conditions outdoors in a remote location, seedlings into fluffy pasture of various "native" and "introduced non-invasive" plants watered by rain and water from a healthy living pond. I also grow small amounts when I keep my ambition in check. You can shoot for max yield, max quality, max combo. I shoot for a high with a personality that fits my needs (I'd rather take two hits of the cure than one hit of the pure), PTSD war veteran, amputated body parts, phantom nerve pain, depression, mania, anxiety, paranoia, obsessive analysis. My best cure is probably watching it grow at sunrise.

Blessed is my destiny
Blessed is the mystery

I was reading about dead mulching and wanted to use leaf litter and eventually comfrey leaves I have outside in a large container up on a bench where it won't get into the ground fed with well composted chicken manure from my chickens. I see a lot of talk about living mulches and it sounds great but I have some questions. if I have a thick canopy where it is very shaded underneath, would it be more beneficial in my situation to use the leaf litter and comfrey leaves? I would like to use top dressings so how well does that work with a living mulch? would I have to weed a spot to put my dressing down? I'm at the beginning stages and at a crossroad. between dead and living mulches. thank you

I don't want to pump a company but you might google "low growing beneficial bug blend"

 

[Luther Burbank]

Jesus, give it a break!

 

[TheFarm]

Fast mulch? Really? That's not a thing. Soaking your mulch in water and watering with it is going to do very little, especially in terms of what mulching is/does. It's certainly not a technique that has its own term. You're doing a whole lot of esoteric talk that might impress some newer posters here, but I recognize empty talk when I hear it. It gets real exhausting fighting this battle in organics every six months when someone who doesn't understand science comes in and tries to make some name for their ego.

I'm sorry for being confrontational. If this were just a disagreement on methods I wouldn't, but you've been dropping made up facts and stories in all your posts. Making feel good statements about problems & disagreements or claiming you have a team of paid assistants doesn't change that. No one with a team of paid assistants would make the claims you have.

I said fast mulch was already mechanically and chemically broken down before applying. You don't have to reread and read closer and I don't have to repeat myself. I'm sure we'll both be just fine.

Jesus, give it a break!

if everybody took a break there wouldn't be any forums

 

[Goatstroker]

.

 

[TheFarm]

Fast mulch? Really? That's not a thing. Soaking your mulch in water and watering with it is going to do very little, especially in terms of what mulching is/does. It's certainly not a technique that has its own term. You're doing a whole lot of esoteric talk that might impress some newer posters here, but I recognize empty talk when I hear it. It gets real exhausting fighting this battle in organics every six months when someone who doesn't understand science comes in and tries to make some name for their ego.

I'm sorry for being confrontational. If this were just a disagreement on methods I wouldn't, but you've been dropping made up facts and stories in all your posts. Making feel good statements about problems & disagreements or claiming you have a team of paid assistants doesn't change that. No one with a team of paid assistants would make the claims you have.

Oh, and it wasn't a feel good statement, it was a reply to Weird's signature, if you don't get it it's cool, and if you haven't figured out 20 new assistants every hour in a lab thats cool too, you could go back and reread closer but I won't be speaking to you on this subject anymore, good luck to you

I'm sorry if I misled anyone, when I said lab I meant a biology lab, a chemistry lab, a physics lab, a commercial size greenhouse (not state of the art but better than most nursery greenhouses) on site supported free of charge by a local nursery, and 6 acres of field for crop experiments that is supported free of charge by a local cotton seed delinter for experimentation.
and yes I'm thankful, Jah Glory

Fast mulch? Really? That's not a thing. Soaking your mulch in water and watering with it is going to do very little, especially in terms of what mulching is/does. It's certainly not a technique that has its own term. You're doing a whole lot of esoteric talk that might impress some newer posters here, but I recognize empty talk when I hear it. It gets real exhausting fighting this battle in organics every six months when someone who doesn't understand science comes in and tries to make some name for their ego.

I'm sorry for being confrontational. If this were just a disagreement on methods I wouldn't, but you've been dropping made up facts and stories in all your posts. Making feel good statements about problems & disagreements or claiming you have a team of paid assistants doesn't change that. No one with a team of paid assistants would make the claims you have.

Oh, just had to one more time, I said my assistants were "paid (not with money)" (reread if you need to) so people could figure it out and if you still don't get it stop calling yourself an educated person. A lot of people have been exposed to a lot of information without becoming educated. It's not their fault, its usually a genetic or organic delayment problem.

 

[Weird]

when you come to understand nature and the natural process you understand extolling exactness or one dimensional approaches is promoting one organisms perspective regarding systems that require harmonic interaction among many organism to reach full potential.

This seeming conundrum need not be so, it is simple as that.

 

[TheFarm]

when you come to understand nature and the natural process you understand extolling exactness or one dimensional approaches is promoting one organisms perspective regarding systems that require harmonic interaction among many organism to reach full potential.

This seeming conundrum need not be so, it is simple as that.

maybe that's why I feel differently about and grow differently the plant experiments that I analyze with a reductionist philosophy as opposed to the cannabis plants (and my Cherokee tomatoes) in my private garden that I will ingest to expand my thought process, this dichotomy either warps or informs both thought processes, in my case warped is probably closer to the truth

 

[Weird]

maybe that's why I feel differently about and grow differently the plant experiments that I analyze with a reductionist philosophy as opposed to the cannabis plants (and my Cherokee tomatoes) in my private garden that I will ingest to expand my thought process, this dichotomy either warps or informs both thought processes, in my case warped is probably closer to the truth

Well this is very appropriate, it helps teach causation.

I read very little, I employ much, I prefer to learn by doing, at least in regards to nature.

It wasn't meant to be a criticism.

We all need to look at the organic pieces and fit it to our own puzzle so to speak so when applying natural methods in our own life.

However, how our own experiences can be different and yet yield like results.

This is because natural systems are very dynamic and employ an economy of energy, that is, most organisms and matter interacts with the nature around in, in many ways on many different levels.

In this way the organic method is as dimensional as our universe, and all inputs and interactions work much like multi-dimensional arrays work in computing.

 

[Scrappy4]

maybe that's why I feel differently about and grow differently the plant experiments that I analyze with a reductionist philosophy as opposed to the cannabis plants (and my Cherokee tomatoes) in my private garden that I will ingest to expand my thought process, this dichotomy either warps or informs both thought processes, in my case warped is probably closer to the truth

Maybe if your posts were not I I I or me me me or if you came in search of knowledge, instead of dispensing your brand of, lol, whatever it is you do here. I can see your passionate, but also it seems your are on a different wave length from the mere mortals that post here. It's easier to listen with your mouth shut, and if you listen more and get less preachy, maybe you will learn something that you can use to your benefit on your planet.

 

[TheFarm]

Weird, I didn't take it as negative criticism (I think criticism gets a bad rap anyhow as long as the cup is not overflowing, its more in the taking than the giving)
Weird, why do you think that the scientific model of the atom, solar system, galaxy, and universe all look like the same picture? think its perception of the model or the perception of the modelers or something else? I'll quit derailing this excellent forum, I'm tired, I need to go sit in the sun

Maybe if your posts were not I I I or me me me or if you came in search of knowledge, instead of dispensing your brand of, lol, whatever it is you do here. I can see your passionate, but also it seems your are on a different wave length from the mere mortals that post here. It's easier to listen with your mouth shut, and if you listen more and get less preachy, maybe you will learn something that you can use to your benefit on your planet.

thanks for the criticism

thanks for the criticism

Maybe if your posts were not I I I or me me me or if you came in search of knowledge, instead of dispensing your brand of, lol, whatever it is you do here. I can see your passionate, but also it seems your are on a different wave length from the mere mortals that post here. It's easier to listen with your mouth shut, and if you listen more and get less preachy, maybe you will learn something that you can use to your benefit on your planet.

I have only come here seeking knowledge
Something they couldn't teach me up in college
The Police

The reason I come here is to hear your first hand expertise and to give my first hand expertise. I'm looking for prime not secondary sources. I would Scholar Google for scientific articles on cannabis but unfortunately its not very prolific due to the illegality of the plant. When I come here I want you to educate me, if I post it is my opinion, I don't think it is effective to type imho after every post. If I posted someone elses opinion I would cite it with APA, MLS, or Chicago style. That is the reason for my I I I or me me me posts. Please do the same so we can learn from you. I've seen your other posts and know that you are an educated person in the field of cannabis growing and I would like to learn a thing or two from you. thanks for your considerate consideration.

I'm sorry I meant MLA not MLS, the MLS kicks balls for a living and the MLA kicks balls for a living, meanwhile back to the informative thread

 

[Weird]

I wasn't put off by your posts tbh

I have no issue disseminating information from various sources and using it to come to some conclusion

this is what companies looking at big data do all day

there is a notion that LOS should not be commercialized

and while it is my first instinct and I wholeheartedly agree I think that if we don't commercialize sustainability we won't survive as a race.

However I do think that the information regarding it be should be open source and freely available and that no part of the natural system become propriety in regards to ownership

Should people be rewarded monetarily for their efforts including providing resources to the los community and market yes

should the natural world be accessible only at a cost? no

should the information we individually learn about the natural world be shared openly with to others pr at a cost?

Well if you take a long enough time to think about it, there is a cost either way.

If we don't all quickly learn to harness nature and work harmoniously with it we will all suffer the consequences

food for thought

 

[Weird]

if you think my observations are resentment based its a projection of your own

my attitude = gratitude

 

[Microbeman]

Oh, just had to one more time, I said my assistants were "paid (not with money)" (reread if you need to) so people could figure it out and if you still don't get it stop calling yourself an educated person. A lot of people have been exposed to a lot of information without becoming educated. It's not their fault, its usually a genetic or organic delayment problem.

Oh riddles! I get it. Okay.

but I do have a large staff (about 20 new assistants assigned to me each hour) at my lab that get paid (not money) to perform biological experiments I'm interested in (not using cannabis but plants with similar life cycle needs and production)

I'll bite. Is this supposed to be some dim reference to organisms other than humans, somehow?

How about these?

Where do the plants have eyes and ears?
Where is the master always outstanding in his field?
Where does someone or something get laid everyday?
What can be bought & sold, loved & plowed and always breaks your heart at the end.
What has 4 limbs, no roots, and leaves the forum ASAP with his MLArchy!

Answer; TheFarm.

Use the fast mulch on that please.