List of Recessive Traits

[Daytripper]

Anyway here is some good info on how to track genes with a Mendellian Box
or look up Chi square
this is the classic and still used method to find out what your ominant and recessives are.

Southwind, you do an awesome thread on chi squares and I'll see to you get hooked up with "old world indicas".

Copy and paste is ok but I expect you to teach using your own words. Think you deserve old world seeds the prove it!

 

[Brownpants]

Brownpants if it were sex linked it would be only 1 gene and easy to make a female line that had this trait using a backcross.

I could list several more reasons like the number of females showing this trait should be the square root of the number of males showing this trait.

If 1/20 females show the trait every population having 400 males showing this trait would have 20 females with the same trait. 20 being the square root of 400.

Daytripper - This is the last time I will respond to you. It is obvious you don't know what you are talking about or don't understand the topics I am posting about. You are doing a dis-service to this community by pretending to know something that you obviously do not. I am tired of constantly correcting you and will not do so anymore. A warning to anybody following Daytripper's advice is to take it with a grain of salt.

Below are some cut & pastes:

phenotypic expression of an allele that is related to the gender of the individual and is directly tied to the sex chromosomes. This mode of inheritance is in contrast to the inheritance of traits on autosomal chromosomes, where both sexes have the same probability of expressing the trait.

In mammals, the female is the homogametic sex, having two X-chromosomes (XX), while the male is heterogametic, having one X and one Y chromosome (XY). Genes that are present on the X or Y chromosome are called sex linked genes.

In birds and in some insects, the homogametic sex is male. For example, a male duck has two Z-chromosomes (ZZ), while the female is heterogametic (ZW).

X-linked recessive traits are expressed in all heterogametics, but only in those homogametics that are homozygous for the recessive allele. For example, an X-linked recessive allele in humans causes haemophilia. Haemophilia is much more common in males than females because males are hemizygous - they only have one copy of the gene in question - and therefore express the trait when they inherit one mutant allele. In contrast, a female must inherit two mutant alleles, a very infrequent event since the mutant allele is rare in the population (and her father would have been sick!).

The incidence of recessive X-linked phenotypes in females is the square of that in males (squaring a proportion less than one gives an outcome closer to 0 than the original). If 1 in 20 males in a human population are green color blind, then 1 in 400 females in the population are expected to be color blind (1/20*1/20).
X-linked recessive inheritance

Sex-linked traits are maternally inherited from carrier mothers. Each son born to a carrier mother has a 50% probability of inheriting the X-chromosome carrying the mutant allele. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_linkage



This is sex-linked genes, genes located on one of the sex chromosomes (X or Y) but not the other. Since, typically the X chromosome is longer, it bears a lot of genes not found on the Y chromosome, thus most sex-linked genes are X-linked genes. One example of a sex-linked gene is fruit fly eye color. An X chromosome carrying a normal, dominant, red-eyed allele would be symbolized by a plain X, while the recessive, mutant, white-eyed allele would be symbolized by X' or Xw. A fly with genotype XX' would normally be a female with red eyes, yet be a carrier for the white-eyed allele. Because a male typically only has one X chromosome, he would normally be either XY and have normal, red eyes, or X'Y and have white eyes. The only way a female with two X chromosomes could have white eyes is if she would get an X' allele from both parents making her X'X' genotype. The cross between a female carrier and a red-eyed male would look like this:

Notice that while there is a “typical” ratio of ¾ red-eyed to ¼ white-eyed, all of the white-eyed flies are males.

Typically, X-linked traits show up more in males than females because typical XY males only have one X chromosome, so if they get the allele on their X chromosome, they show the trait. If a typical XX female is a carrier, 50% of her sons will get that X chromosome and show the trait. In order for an XX female to exhibit one of these X-linked traits, most of which are recessive mutations, she would have to have two copies of the allele (X'X'), which would mean that her mother would have to be a carrier and her father have the trait so she could get one allele from each of them. http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Courses/bio105/sex-link.htm

Sex-Linked Dominant Inheritance

Sex linked-dominant traits seem to be more rare than sex-linked recessive traits. They should be considered more deleterious because most are male lethal. An example of an x-linked dominant trait in cattle is Streaked Hairlessness in Holsteins. This disorder causes streaks of missing hair, especially on the flanks. Males which inherit this allele die in utero.

Holandric Inheritance

Holandric is the term used to describe genes carried on the Y chromosome in mammals. Since only males have a Y chromosome, the traits inherited in this manner will be exhibited only by males. The Y chromosome is a very small chromosome and some of it does not seem to harbor any genes. In cattle, the only genes that we know are carried on the Y are those relating to the primary sex characteristics. Although few, these are very important phenotypic features!

# Grisart, B., W. Coppieters, F. Farnir, L. Karim, C. Ford, N. Cambisano, M. Mni, S. Reid, R. Spelman, M. Georges, R. Snell. 2002. Positional candidate cloning of a QTL in dairy cattle: identification of a missense mutation in the bovine DGAT1 gene with major effect on milk yield and composition. Genome Research 12:222-231.
# Spelman, R. J., C. A. Ford, P. McElhinney, G. C. Gregory, R. G. Snell. 2002. Characterization of the DGAT1 gene in the New Zealand dairy population. J. Dairy Science 85:3514-3517.

Daytripper - It is nice to see you are learning something from the college text book you have....Just wish it wasn't at my expense.

-BP-

 

[Guest]

dunno bro would be conveniant if we all had a little room to learn eh?

theres 3 sides fellas

1. what i think

2. what you think

3. the reality

 

[Guest]

Daytripper - It is nice to see you are learning something from the college text book you have....Just wish it wasn't at my expense.

-BP-

no one asked you to expend yourself.. feel the need to fight some battle be my guest. im sure he thinks he is just as correct as you. you both seem smart but do we need all the blubering just so somone will say your both smart?

 

[suzycremecheese]

I skimmed this thread so I apologize if someone has said this already.

In most cases, it is not as simple as dominant and recessive. There are many potential alleles for each loci. They all interact differently and one allele doesnt always totally dominate another. They interact in different ways other than just dominance and recessiveness.

Do a search on epistasis and you will learn a little more about inheritance.

To complicate this even more, most traits that we see when we look at a plant are the combined result of multiple genes, otherwise known as quantitative traits. Many traits such as potency, aroma, yield, the list goes on, are probably the result of many genes. I believe height is also a quantitative trait and Clarke was using that as only an example to explain the mendelian basics of inheritance.

Until we have some very educated people working on this stuff in labs we probably wont know the answers to these questions and even then most of us probably wont grasp the meaning of it with out a graduate degree in genetics. If we did we would need a lab to identify which genes were present and absent in order to make use of the information.

Hortipharm probably has the answers to some of these questions but it wouldnt be in the financial interest of the corporation to share that info when there is the potential for competition.

 

[Brownpants]

When this thread first started, I was hoping for input from other amateur or professional breeders with regards to observations they made when performing certain crosses. Things like certain traits not getting passed on to the F1 generation, or traits that appear relatively rarely in F2 generations. Simple observations of physical characteristics can lead to an understanding of the inheritance of certain traits. I know there is more to genetics than simple mendelian principles. I have a Bachelors degree in Science from a well respected university and have taken several upper level genetics courses, and some advanced organic chemistry as well. I wanted to try and keep this topic simple and restricted to recessive alleles, because imo they are the easiest traits to observe and would be a good place to start. I don't have access to a GC/MS anymore and cannot comment on the nature of different chemotypes found in Cannabis. I have to rely on scientific journals for this information, with what little of their actual data is published. Even these papers should be viewed with some skepticism, for example the Hortapharm paper and the Indiana University papers do not take into account the harvest timing factor. Both papers give very little information about what criteria was used to determine plant maturity and do not make any effort to control for any differences in THC/CBD levels at different harvest times. Their findings that THC/CBD is a co-dominant trait is still most likely correct, even if their method was a little flawed in my opinion. Pipeline has a thread with these papers in it if anybody is interested in reading them. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=47177

I was hoping for a more constructive thread than this one turned out to be.

-BP-

 

[Guest]

Interesting to see what comes of This...

 

[Daytripper]

The incidence of recessive X-linked phenotypes in females is the square of that in males (squaring a proportion less than one gives an outcome closer to 0 than the original). If 1 in 20 males in a human population are green color blind, then 1 in 400 females in the population are expected to be color blind (1/20*1/20).
X-linked recessive inheritance

Sex-linked traits are maternally inherited from carrier mothers. Each son born to a carrier mother has a 50% probability of inheriting the X-chromosome carrying the mutant allele. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_linkage

Thanks brownpants, you to shot you self in the foot .

You have access to knowledge but fail to understand it fully.

Sam_Skunkman said 1/10, so to be sex linked 1 out of every 100 females would show this trait? Correct? Sam is the master cannabis breeder , why did he not create a line with this trait if its as you say? Because its not sex linked.

Well the data does not support your conclusion, as proved by your own posts. Try again.


You, boy are as easy to manipulate as an american voter, I'm starting to like you. LOL

 

[Daytripper]

Even these papers should be viewed with some skepticism,


for example the Hortapharm paper and the Indiana University papers do not take into account the harvest timing factor.

Both papers give very little information about what criteria was used to determine plant maturity and do not make any effort to control for any differences in THC/CBD levels at different harvest times.

Their findings that THC/CBD is a co-dominant trait is still most likely correct,

even if their method was a little flawed in my opinion.

You prove you fail to understand the basics of simple single gene action.

 

[Daytripper]

I have a Bachelors degree in Science from a well respected university and have taken several upper level genetics courses,

and some advanced organic chemistry as well. I wanted to try and keep this topic simple and restricted to recessive alleles,
because imo they are the easiest traits to observe and would be a good place to start.

Sure you do, I read that a lot , funny thing is they can't prove it because it has their name on it. Like saying your order got siezed but you can't post the letter of confiscated contraband because it has your real name on it. Like blacking out a name is rocket science.

I'm glad you're not my kid living in my basement.

 

[Brownpants]

Sam_Skunkman said 1/10, so to be sex linked 1 out of every 100 females would show this trait? Correct? Sam is the master cannabis breeder , why did he not create a line with this trait if its as you say? Because its not sex linked.

LOL

You are confusing yourself with population genetics and the incidence of females in a population exhibiting this trait. Sam stated a ratio of males to females exhibiting the trait(10:1), not a frequency of incidence in the population. There is a big difference. There is nothing natural about his gene pool unless he is working with a natural population of wild type Landrace genetics in their own habitat.

I am open-minded to the fact I might be wrong, you just have to provide me with a valid scientific argument that supports your reasoning.

 

[Brownpants]

Daytripper - You are a troll, Don't believe me? Then go back and re-read all your posts.

I am putting you on ignore now and will have to stop feeding you.

You can take up your sex-link debate with Clarke, after all it was his quote that started it all.

Whorled phyllotaxy is associated with subsequent anomalies in the growth cycle (i.e., multiple leaflets and flattened or clubbed stems). Also, most whorled plants are staminate and whorled phyllotaxy may be sex-linked. (Clarke, R.C. Marijuana Botany)

 

[suzycremecheese]

Clark said that crossing a low potency parent with a high potency parent results in plants of intermediate potency and that selfing the "cross" will result in transgessive segregants that are extra potent. This does not mean potency is recessive it indicates that potency is polygenic/ multigenic/ quantitative, involves many genes.

Exactly transgressive segregants are found in the F2 generation of two unrelated P.

Further proof is produced by the fact that backcrossing progeny to the higher potency parent produces plants that will be even more potent than the high potency parent. Transgressive segregation.

BX'ing to the lower potency parent will lower potency below the low potency parent

I don't know that this is always true and I dont know that the results of a Bx are defined by transgressive segregation. I think it is basically used to describe the variety that goes beyond both of the Ps in an F2.

You are wrong about genetics and breeding being too advanced for beginners.

I dont think he's entirely wrong about this. Genetics are pretty complicated.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Brownpants,
You said:
"Even these papers should be viewed with some skepticism, for example the Hortapharm paper and the Indiana University papers do not take into account the harvest timing factor. Both papers give very little information about what criteria was used to determine plant maturity and do not make any effort to control for any differences in THC/CBD levels at different harvest times."

FYI,
The Cannabinoid profile does not change much in relationship to maturity. What changes is the absolute amounts of Cannabinoids with maturity, but the ratio of the Cannabinoids is fairly constant. That and it is hard to find varieties with CBD or the other Cannabinoids. If you test a clone at 2 week, 4 week, 6 week, 8 week, 10 weeks flowered, the clone Cannabinoid ratios hardly change at all, only the absolute amounts change.
People used to think that CBD was converted by the plant to THC and then of course the ratios would be constantly changing, but that is not true. THC is converted from CBG, by the THC synthase.
The bottom line is the maturity was not anywhere as important as you thought, the plants were all mature and ready to be harvested, and then were analyzed, the work and results are legit.
-SamS

 

[Guest]

this is the most emotional scientific debate ive ever...........................

why dont you guys drop the personal shit ad just battle with knowledge.

were all able to infer a point by the data presented

enough of the "boy if u were living in my basement"

thats ONLY satisfying yourself and doesnt further the debate you obviously are willing to fight for to the point that you both look like children.

dont say another god damnt thing to eachother on a Personal** level

 

[Brownpants]

The bottom line is the maturity was not anywhere as important as you thought, the plants were all mature and ready to be harvested, and then were analyzed, the work and results are legit.
-SamS

The main point I was trying to convey with that quote, was to be skeptical with research papers just as much as anything else you read. Don't just take it as the absolute truth on the matter, errors are made all the time with scientific papers. Sam you pointed one of the errors out with the old pathway thinking of THC synthesis, they used to think it was linear, now they now it is not. I was not trying to say the paper wasn't legit (which I am assuming you mean as being published), and your right about maturity not having much weight on the qualitative determination of THC/CBD chemotype. But I was talking about the quantitative measurements that were made, this is dependent on harvest time, as well as numerous other biotic and abiotic factors. There was no mention about what was used as criteria to determine when the plants were mature. Was it determined by days? colour of the pistills? Trichome transparency? All their data concerning the amount of cannibinoids present at time of harvest depends solely on the judgement of a Lab tech. In my opinion, they should have taken samples a week or two before, after and during the time of maturation. If they weren't concerned with this part of the study, then why didn't they take samples from juvenile plants? instead of waiting months for the plants to mature. I think part of my opinion is also based on the fact that I personally want to know what is happening with cannibinoid levels during those times. We know THC breaks down to become CBN by an oxidation process, but what happens to CBD? Does it break down at the same rate as THC? Are there enzymes controlling these reactions? I find it disturbing there is little data about what happens to THC and CBD after they are synthesized. As growers, we notice a difference between harvesting too early and harvesting late. I want more data about what is happening during these times.

-BP-

 

[Brownpants]

Cannabinoids Biosynthetic pathway

Cannabinoids Biosynthetic pathway

I just wanted to post this pic of the Biosynthetic pathway referred to earlier.
The Roman numerals indicate synthase enzymes, ex) THC-Synthase is III.

 

[Daytripper]

Clark said that crossing a low potency parent with a high potency parent results in plants of intermediate potency and that selfing the "cross" will result in transgessive segregants that are extra potent.

This does not mean potency is recessive it indicates that potency is polygenic/ multigenic/ quantitative, involves many genes.

Further proof is produced by the fact that backcrossing progeny to the higher potency parent produces plants that will be even more potent than the high potency parent. Transgressive segregation.

The character of inheritance of differences in cannabinoid content in hemp (Cannabis sativa L.)

V. P. Sytnik1 and A. F. Stelmah2

1 The Institute of Bast Crops, Glukhov, Sumy region, Ukraine and 2 New York Academy of Sciences
Sytnik, V. P. and A. F. Stelmah 1998. The character of inheritance of differences in cannabinoid content in hemp (Cannabis sativa L.). Journal of the International Hemp Association 6(1): 8-9. Analyses of F2 hybrid and backcross populations from crosses between inbred monoecious and dioecious populations reveal that inheritance of cannabinoid production is controlled by closely linked, but independent genes for the biosynthesis of CBD and THC. Monohybrid segregation of cannabinoid production should simplify selection for Cannabis with particular cannabinoid phenotypes. .....



...But since, as is seen from Table 1, this is not true, then it is more logical to conclude that the content of each of the cannabinoids is controlled by closely linked independent genes.
The presence of the above mentioned source of heredity of differences in cannabinoid components greatly simplifies the selection of hemp. It is now possible to quickly create varieties and hybrids, that are non-psychoactive, based on easily realized methods of selection. June 1999, Journal of the International Hemp Association.

Read very carefully it may provide you with clues as to why extremely small amounts of cbd can be found in plants with the bt genotype and vise versa.

 

[Daytripper]

Exactly transgressive segregants are found in the F2 generation of two unrelated P.




I don't know that this is always true and I dont know that the results of a Bx are defined by transgressive segregation. I think it is basically used to describe the variety that goes beyond both of the Ps in an F2.



I dont think he's entirely wrong about this. Genetics are pretty complicated.

suzycremecheese , when you broke up my paragraph you created the appearance of a whole other statement!

I QUOTED MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT ABOVE , SO ITS NO TAKEN WRONG AS YOU INTERPRETED OR INTENDED.

Ok suzy , genetics can be complicated but its not as dangerous as water, is that any reason not to learn genetics or to swim? (That is a rhetorical question not needing a reply. )

 

[Daytripper]

"Originally Posted by Daytripper
Clark said that crossing a low potency parent with a high potency parent results in plants of intermediate potency and that selfing the "cross" will result in transgessive segregants that are extra potent.

This does not mean potency is recessive it indicates that potency is polygenic/ multigenic/ quantitative, involves many genes.

Further proof is produced by the fact that backcrossing progeny to the higher potency parent produces plants that will be even more potent than the high potency parent. Transgressive segregation."


When I used "transgressive segregation" as a sentence,I meant;


study transgressive segregation to understand more.

My statement also indicates that more than one gene is at work and gene action.

Also see earlier posts that said the traits we are interested in are not controlled by a single gene

Heres a link for the for those poor or cheap or pussy paranoids,newbies ...


The character of inheritance of differences in cannabinoid content in hemp (Cannabis sativa L.)

http://mojo.calyx.net./~olsen/HEMP/IHA/jiha6106.html

Subscriptions are available and cost very little.

Brownpants , I love you bro, even though we fight , when the chips are down we'll fight back to back against .....

suzy , you showed up hoping you could be a mod here for the new lab? LOL

OUTTA HERE

I'm gone!