List of different Soil Mixes---Soil Directory

[sticky367]

AZOMITE = Yes :yay:
Tons o' trace minerals.
'Nuff said.

Dolomitic limestone (pref. flour) = maybe...
- Yes, if the rest of the mix comes out acidic... which may depend on what the pH of your oak leaf compost is.
- Maybe, if pH is OK & you're otherwise in need of Cal+Mag.
- Maybe not, if your mix comes out neutral (7.0) or (esp. if oyster shell flour goes in) even goes basic... in that case, you might want to amend with something that'll drop pH into a better zone (either lots of organic matter/compost, elemental sulphur (be careful ), or nitrogen/ammonium fertilizers).

EWC is generally neutral to only barely/slightly acidic, pumice is usu. neutral ('tho there are some mined deposits that have high pH probs), and most cocos are pH-adjusted to something in the 6 ~ 6.8 range. (Gypsum, BTW/FWIW, has no effect on soil pH)

My guess is your mix probably leans toward neutral/slightly acidic, and could go basic w/ too much, e.g., oyster shell flour (or weirdness like pumice from a high pH deposit or poorly-adjusted coco coir). Probably have plenty of buffering capacity, so you don't have to be pH perfect like w/ hydro, but you prolly don't want to further bump pH out of the zone if you don't have to...

Zeolite, IDK... from what I only now am reading, I understand it has good water-holding properties & high cation exchange... and a particular type of zeolite - Clinoptilolite - is sold as a fertilizer component (because of its affinity to ammonia?). But, I just don't know... the alumina in its structure bothers me (cannabis doesn't tolerate Al well), and I just don't know enough about it (how/how quickly it degrades & whether there are any residual Al products that might be toxic or only tolerated by particular types of plants/crops)...

Neem meal I have zero knowledge of/experience with... I get that you're thinking insect control for outdoors, but otherwise as Sargent Schultz likes to say: I know nothink! (I only grow indoors)

Go low on the clay (not more than, e.g., half of your amendments at most, pref. less IMO)...

As far as maybe missing things/gaps:

Peat? Usu. is pH'd to low~mid 6s, might provide some acidic counterbalance... I know, I know, you said coco was in lieu of peat & cheap avail source right now...

Nutes? For meals, I'd suggest:
- Alfalfa meal
- Kelp meal

Also, some Greensand...

No nitro anywhere? (Or is that coming from fertigation?)
How about some high N bat guano... cannabis needs lots of N...

Also, would highly recommend inoculating your mix with [endo]mycorrhizal fungi and some beneficial bacteria. Makes a difference (most of the soilless mix companies do it for that reason [not to mention for the marketing sizzle]).

Cant thank you enough for the response.
I hear you on the amendments... I haven't done too much research yet, thanks for the advice!

The plan is to get most of the nutrients in the soil already and just do teas.

I am more worried about the coco coir/ base soil components and if they will be okay to use for large pots or in the ground. I have access to coco very cheap and the money i would save pretty much makes everything else possible. I guess I should be asking does anyone have experience with a high % coco mix outdoors for large plants... how do the percentages I mentioned look?

 

[BigBozat]

Cant thank you enough for the response.
I hear you on the amendments... I haven't done too much research yet, thanks for the advice!

The plan is to get most of the nutrients in the soil already and just do teas.

I am more worried about the coco coir/ base soil components and if they will be okay to use for large pots or in the ground. I have access to coco very cheap and the money i would save pretty much makes everything else possible. I guess I should be asking does anyone have experience with a high % coco mix outdoors for large plants... how do the percentages I mentioned look?

Tho I don't grow outdoors, my understanding is that there are lots o' folks who do 100% coco outdoors. A quick search [these forums or google] will both confirm and provide some insights on any issues folks have run into doing coco outdoor. Of course, if your plan is to build & then feed the soil w/ teas instead of synth nute regime, then you're prolly better off w/ more humus/composts/etc than less (otherwise you'll be doing lots more feeding, I think), so I wouldn't go crazy w/ the coco ratio. (In my mind, the more varied & biodiverse the soil mix components, the better the structure, but that's just me...)

Large plants?
Stake 'em/give 'em support, and prepare to quench their thirst.

 

[Ph-patrol]

Im looking to do an organic soilless mix. This is what I have

Canadian peat 3 cuft
chunky perlite 1.75 cuft
30lb worm castings


Bone meal
blood meal
alphalpha meal
Green sand
Agricultural lime

Want to know if I'm missing some thing or If I don't need some thing. The worm castings and green sand were a bitch to find. I drove all over the place to find every thing I have so far.

 

[Ph-patrol]

Indoor Mix

 

[BigBozat]

Needs Beasties

Needs Beasties

Im looking to do an organic soilless mix. This is what I have

Canadian peat 3 cuft
chunky perlite 1.75 cuft
30lb worm castings


Bone meal
blood meal
alphalpha meal
Green sand
Agricultural lime

Want to know if I'm missing some thing or If I don't need some thing. The worm castings and green sand were a bitch to find. I drove all over the place to find every thing I have so far.

Preface: Your mix seems fine as is (assuming reasonable meal app rates). Should work fine. That said...

If you're doing organic, then beasties are a must (mycos & bene bacts), yes?... you feed the soil, the beasties consume & make root candy avail to the roots, the roots take up avail candy & exude things the beasties like back, and round we go... Soil web & whatnot...

Some peats are/may already be inoculated w/ beasties... but it don't hurt to provide more [of compatible sp.; mycos usu. = G. intraradices, bact = B. subtilis, but there are others]

Peat compacts, and tends to acidify as it breaks down, so reuse is low. Not critical, but consider coco (swap for up to half the peat?), esp if u want to reuse.

No compost?
Huh... yeah I know, lot o EWC... but still... strange to me, but maybe I'm weird? Maybe some other org matter/humus? (AF is my pref but YMMV)

I like to add a hefty dose of builders sand, like 10% (maybe 0.5 cf for your recipe). It is silica, but mostly I like how it makes the soil feel. Texture.

I also like to add a 10% dose of biochar (hort charcoal) when I can find it (which isn't often). I have a pet theory about karrakinolides as [part of?] the explanation for the mystery of purported fecundity of Terra preta...

I'd add kelp meal & rock powder, azomite for trace mins+

Personally, not a fan of blood/bone meals (but that's just my pref). If I wanted to add N to my mix, I'd do hi N bat guano instead. (and/or composted cow manure, tho it's slow)

BIG fan of alf... all hail alf
(Hard to find here tho)

 

[bamboogardner]

Hi Folks. Just mixed up some new soil, Clackamas Coots Mix, aka Lumperdawgz. I did this so I could send off a sample to Logan Labs to be analyzed. Since I am not planting in it until next year, do you think it is okay to send that sample off now or wait 3 weeks or so?

Let me know and thanks.

 

[Kozmo]

I have a nice local organic soil mix that I use. I would like to gear it toward sativa dominant cloans that go straight to flower. I would all ready be adding Flora Nova bloom 1/2 strength at week 5 and 8 on this 12 week strain. ACT the rest of the time. Any suggestions on soil makeup?

 

[BigBozat]

I have a nice local organic soil mix that I use. I would like to gear it toward sativa dominant cloans that go straight to flower. I would all ready be adding Flora Nova bloom 1/2 strength at week 5 and 8 on this 12 week strain. ACT the rest of the time. Any suggestions on soil makeup?

I'm confused... you're using an organic soil, but running [ostensibly] hydro nutes? and AACTs?

Aren't the synth nutes & AACTs kinda at cross-puroses here? Do you plan on recycling/reusing your soil... or is it thrown away after one harvest & a new soil mix built for the next grow?

Lots o' EDTA/synthetic chelates in FloraNova Bloom... EDTA doesn't break down in soils & synth chelates can, and often do, interfere with the osmotic equilibrium, by causing precipitation. I'm not a purist, but I just don't quite understand what you want to achieve/where you're going here...

Ideally, would want to know more b4 making a rec re: additional amendments...

What's already in your nice, local organic soil mix (incl. at least rough relative amounts of ea. component, if possible)?
Outdoor or indoor?
What specific 12-week strain is it?
Have you run this strain b4 (or its parents), or do you otherwise have any info re: its particular requirements/idiosyncracies?

 

[Kozmo]

cofusious say:

cofusious say:

I'm confused... you're using an organic soil, but running [ostensibly] hydro nutes? and AACTs?

Aren't the synth nutes & AACTs kinda at cross-puroses here? Do you plan on recycling/reusing your soil... or is it thrown away after one harvest & a new soil mix built for the next grow?

Lots o' EDTA/synthetic chelates in FloraNova Bloom... EDTA doesn't break down in soils & synth chelates can, and often do, interfere with the osmotic equilibrium, by causing precipitation. I'm not a purist, but I just don't quite understand what you want to achieve/where you're going here...

Ideally, would want to know more b4 making a rec re: additional amendments...

What's already in your nice, local organic soil mix (incl. at least rough relative amounts of ea. component, if possible)?
Outdoor or indoor?
What specific 12-week strain is it?
Have you run this strain b4 (or its parents), or do you otherwise have any info re: its particular requirements/idiosyncracies?

Not sure what you mean by "ostensibly" but I thought Flora Nova was organic for the most part. I could and probably am way wrong. I use the ACT's that are provided through KIS inc.

I do not plan on recycling the soil. I will mix a new batch per grow.

I just wanted to add that during those weeks to make sure the plant was getting everything it needed.

I have no idea whats in the mix but I get loads of peppers and seven foot tomatoes. My plants do great with it. I do know its organic though.

indoor

A13 Haze X Biker Kush

it's a new limited strain by Karma Gen. It's on its way or will be showing up any day. Go check out Karma's new web sight that just came up today, it's on there.

Did the best I could to help you help me.

Thanks

 

[BigBozat]

Not sure what you mean by "ostensibly" but I thought Flora Nova was organic for the most part. I could and probably am way wrong. I use the ACT's that are provided through KIS inc.

I do not plan on recycling the soil. I will mix a new batch per grow.

I just wanted to add that during those weeks to make sure the plant was getting everything it needed.

I have no idea whats in the mix but I get loads of peppers and seven foot tomatoes. My plants do great with it. I do know its organic though.

indoor

A13 Haze X Biker Kush

it's a new limited strain by Karma Gen. It's on its way or will be showing up any day. Go check out Karma's new web sight that just came up today, it's on there.

Did the best I could to help you help me.

Thanks

Thanks!

Hope I'm not coming across like a dick (I'm not always aware of how I come across to others)... really am just trying to be helpful...

By ostensibly I meant "apparently, but not actually"...

FloraNova isn't entirely organic... as prev mentioned it contains (among other things) EDTA and (some) synthetically chelated minerals... both of which can be toxic to the microbial community in the soil...

Seems to me the major point of using organic soil (besides its buffering capabilities, so you don't have to be a pH-monitoring freak like in hydro) & ACTs is to build flourishing microbial activity in the soil such that endomycorrhizal fungi & beneficial bacteria break down nutes in the soil [chelate] & make them available for the plant to uptake...

Synth nutes can interfere with this process (not to mention potentially being outright toxic to the microorg community)... so, to some extent your FloraNova is working at cross-purposes to your organic soil & AACTs.

Like I said, I'm not an organic purist and not a hater of synth nutes (or GH or FloraNova in particular) - I sometimes use 'em myself (esp. in emergencies to save a crop)... just sayin' I don't quite understand why you would simultaneously *plan* to use methods/products that seem at cross-purposes...


On the plus side, you're not planning to re-use the soil (such a waste), so at least you're not risking long-term buildup of toxic fert salts in your growing medium...

Personally, if I were planning to use organic soil for a grow, I would be planning how to formulate a soil mix + series of ACT recipes/feeding schedule so as to enhance the microbial activity and avoid the FloraNova nutes altogether. I don't see anything on the label (or any of the other sources I've seen about the product) that you couldn't replace with via organic soil amendments & ATCs...

AFAIK FloraNova is a pretty straightforward 4-8-7 NPK formulation with some other macro/micro/trace minerals plus some citric acid (the latter to adjust pH, acidify the rhizosphere around the roots & enhance P uptake)... so, you could simply amend the soil and make ACTs that provide the higher PK & trace minerals, and even the citric acid...

Bone meal & rock powders are high in P (but your soil will need to be acidic enough (6 < pH < 7) and/or have enough phosphate-solubilizing bacteria (e.g., Pantoea agglomerans strain (P5), Microbacterium laevaniformans strain (P7) and Pseudomonas putida strain (P13)) to dissolve the P into a form available to the plant for uptake) ...

AZOMITE can provide all the micro & trace minerals...

KIS' teas don't have citric acid in 'em AFAIK (BTW, I'm a fan), but it'd be easy enough to add a dose... I can't do the math right off the top of my head to figure out what dosage would equate to the 3% in FloraNova's concentrated solution but I would think a teaspoon or two of Tang per 5 gal brew would be reasonable...

I'll have to go back & read your earlier posts to see what else I might recommend to amend the soil with, but it's kinda hard without knowing what's already in it... typically, I'm an alfalfa meal, kelp/seaweed meal kind of guy...

 

[Kozmo]

Bigbozat-

 

[mr. gt]

tagged for later

 

[BigBozat]

Bigbozat-

Your welcome, I mean thank you... Confusing. You did not come off that way I may have been intimidated by your response, that's all. I did not want to name the local mix due to leaving crumbs of evidence of my general location(never know). I would have PMed you but that seems to be disabled on you page. I checked there websight and can tell you it does not answer you inquiries about there soil make up.
After this new insight I am *re-planning* this sativa aproach and have chosen not to add FNB. I guess I can put that on the shelf with my Dutch Master Zone. I would like to adventure further into a proper mix.
I have learned from a sativa thread that it is important for sativa s nutrients to dwindle to encourage resin production... It's late don't know where I was going with that.
I am intimidated by mixing my own soil mostly. There I said it. It's quite confusing. That's the resin I went with KIS. It came with a stamp of approval. I'm a pot head and never intended on becoming a soil scientist. I like it and I'm enjoying the ride but am a little lost and a little misguided at times. I've come to find out not everyone's advise is good or good for me in particular. I have figured out that my grow will be unique to me and jumping in and doing it will get me places.
If you would like I can direct you to the soil company if there is a way I could do that privately.

I'm lost in this response so I'm going to quit now but would like to work on a propped soil mix if you are interested.

I understand re: disclosing local soil source... stay safe.

Sory about PMing being disabled... I'm entirely new here & don't my way around, so didn't even think about whether it was enabled... I'll look & enable when I have a chance.

Try to get hold of someone at the org soil company and ask if they can at least list the components (better yet, see if they'll send a sample soil analysis). Many soil co.'s won't give out a detailed component analysis (i.e., exact ratio %s & sources, etc... trade secrets & all that), but they'll generally give a rough idea... e.g., this what FoxFarm will say about their Ocean Forest product:

"Our Ocean Forest potting soil contains: composted forest humus, sphagnum peat moss, Pacific Northwest sea-going fish emulsion, crab meal, shrimp meal, earthworm castings, sandy loam, perlite, fossilized bat guano, granite dust, Norwegian kelp meal and oyster shell for pH adjustment.

While I cannot tell you the exact ratios of each ingredient since that information is proprietary, I can tell you that the ingredients are listed from the most prevalent to the least prevalent. "

So, while it's not really enough to get exact about, it's enough to make some educated guesses about what else might be desirable (depending on what strain(s) being run, stage of growth (I mix up slightly different soils for early seedling, veg & flower/bloom))... without it, making recommendations is a crap shoot & quickly devolves into everyone just listing what they like...

Ergo, when you say "I've come to find out not everyone's advise is good or good for me in particular", my only response is Amen to that, brother! That's why I don't want to just make recommendations in the dark... don't want to lead you astray by, for instance, suggesting particular meals or amendments, only to find that your base org soil already has so much in it that my rec causes you to burn plants...

As soon as I figure out how to turn on PM, we can chat about your particular local soil... I would be surpised if it's a lot different than most other organic grow medium mixes...

 

[BigBozat]

Just discovered that my machine here at work is blocked from being able to enable IM-type messaging, so enabling PM will have to wait for this evening when I get home from work & can sit down at my personal machine...

 

[Ph-patrol]

Just discovered that my machine here at work is blocked from being able to enable IM-type messaging, so enabling PM will have to wait for this evening when I get home from work & can sit down at my personal machine...

You need 50 post

 

[Kozmo]

Yes, yes, 50 posts. Should have seen that. Your not far from that but if you'd like to get it done with there is always The four word game.

 

[Ph-patrol]

Just found this on tea http://microbeorganics.com/ thought it was a good read.

 

[BigBozat]

#46

#46

Yes, yes, 50 posts. Should have seen that. Your not far from that but if you'd like to get it done with there is always The four word game.

IDK if it's been posted elsewhere prev, but FWIW, here's 420 Soil's mix (in parens, their indicated purpose)...

They're a comml soil mfr in Portsmouth, NH, who claims the mix is 'just add water' specifically for comml cannabis croppers, full cycle... I'm not advocating, and am skeptical of the JAW claim... just offering as an idea generator for your org soil mix while I try to get 4 more posts done:

- 30% Coco Pith (Water retention & drainage)
- 30% Perlite (Air porosity)
- 5% Peat moss (Bulking agent & carbon source)
- 3% Horticultural Sand (Drainage)
- 3% Worm Castings (Soil conditioner)
- 3% Bio Char/Hort Charcoal (Carbon source, & soil amendment
- 3% Vermiculite (Water retention & drainage)
- 1% Humic Acids fr. Leonardite (May increase micronutrient uptake?)
[Doesn't add to 100%, so what's the remaining 22%? The ferts (below) + ??? (local dirt?)]

Also: Its 1-2-2 NPK (plus Cal, Mag, Sul & Fe (Iron)) is derived from:
Blood meal, Dolomotic limestone, Fish meal, Gypsum, Rock Phosphate, Sodium Nitrate, & Sulfate of Potash.


*****
Personally, I use fairly similar amts of coco, but add more peat, sand, EWC+humus (composted conifer bark, mushroom & Anc Forest <- u can use KIS Alask Humus instead), vermiculite, biochar, and a variety of trace mins (AZOMITE, rock dusts, etc)...

KIS has most of this stuff (incl below)...

And I add:
- greensand,
- alfalfa meal,
- kelp meal

... for heavy veg, I add:
- composted dairy cow manure (not necess & perhaps not even advisable),
- Plant-tone (cuz it hits so many diff meals in one, but that's me being lazy),
- crab meal

... if heavy P is needed, maybe a hi-P bat guano or fish bone meal or more soft rock phosphates...

In all cases, I inoculate/charge heavily with mycos (Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae) & bacteria (Azospirillum brasilense, which fixes nitrogen from the air; bacillus subtilis)... depends on whose samples I happen to have on hand... and humics... and AACT tea starters...

 

[BigBozat]

Just found this on tea http://microbeorganics.com/ thought it was a good read.

I think that's Microbeman (and spurr and others who used to post @ IC [recently too]), who seem to be mostly over at The Logical Gardiner... good guys, know their stuff...

 

[Kozmo]

It is a good read! Half way through. Mixing a proper soil for Sativa in flower is my goal. Remembering that these clones will be going straight into flower after show of growth. Also taking into account sativas low nitrogen needs and there development into buds is not only brought on by shoter light times but the depleted nutriants in the soil.