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LED FAQ) Building and DIY
- Thread starter Dion
- Start date
Thanks Mega. Run with it man. I borrowed from mau5 who borrowed from Gene...
Ive got the cobs mounted to the sinks and the sinks to the rails. Next will be mounting the sections and drivers to the square aluminum.
There isn't any place around here that carries 18 gauge wire, potentiometers or project boxes. So, now Im waiting for some orders to come in.
Think Im going to mount the box under the light for easy access to the dimmers. And for those I ordered http://www.ebay.com/itm/302017175983 . No matter how high the rig is hung, Ill be able to see what the dimmers are set at.
Where did e'rybody go?
Ive got the cobs mounted to the sinks and the sinks to the rails. Next will be mounting the sections and drivers to the square aluminum.
There isn't any place around here that carries 18 gauge wire, potentiometers or project boxes. So, now Im waiting for some orders to come in.
Think Im going to mount the box under the light for easy access to the dimmers. And for those I ordered http://www.ebay.com/itm/302017175983 . No matter how high the rig is hung, Ill be able to see what the dimmers are set at.
Where did e'rybody go?
Dion
Active member
Long time lurker here. Been watching a lot of these forums to try to get smarter regarding making a DIY COB led. Got a few questions and hope this might be a good spot to post questions regarding a DIY COB build to cover a 4ft x 3ft veg and flower area.
I am currently using a 600W digital light (both MH and HPS depending on veg or flower) for this area and it works fine, but during the summer the heat just gets too much for my grow room. So after looking at all the information I could I decided that maybe a COB LED light would help me at least turn off the HP and reduce the heat load in the grow room. I plan on using a design similiar to several other I have seen with the lights arranged in 3 rows of 4 COBS using alum L channel which should help keep the air flow open and the weight down. Spacing would be focus on maintaining 1 COB per sq foot.
Here is my planned list:
(12) Artic Alpine 64 Plus CPU coolers. They say the can handle up to 70Watts energy/heat each, and I don’t plan on driving the COBs that hard at all. (already have these items)
(1) Mean Well LPV-35-12 driver for the cooler fans The output for this is rated as 12 volts, 35 Watts and 3 Amps. Since the specs for the Alpine 64 plus show they consume 12 volts, 1.56 Watts and 0.16 watts each I think the power supply should cover that with no problems if I wire them in parallel.
(3) Mean Well HLG-185H-C1050 drivers. I have 2 of these on hand, so that is why I am looking at this specific item assuming it will be enough to get me to the numbers I need that 4ft x 3ft space.
(12) COBS running at 3000K or 3500K and here is where I am on shaky ground. I am looking for efficiency as well as keeping costs down so I am torn between Cree and Bridgelux. It seems real hard to get comparable numbers from Cree vs. Bridgelux (at least what I can find), so I am really wondering which brand/series might be best. I am not looking for a super light blaster, just something that will match what I can do with my 600watt HPS with less heat and somewhat affordable. I know I can up the power with both the Cree 3590s or the Gen7 Vero29’s, but I would then have to get stronger drivers which will drive my costs up quite a bit.
I am leaning towards the Vero29 just because I do not see a lot of difference in what they can do vs. the CBX-3070’s and the connectors are way cheaper for the Veros than the Cree. I can get the Pico EZ0mate connectors for $1.23 each vs the Ideal holders that with shipping are running me about $4.17 each and then the Vero29’s are about 25.66 each vs the Cree for $32-$38 each depending on bin.
So looking for any help from this forum, as I sure see a lot of knowledge and advice passed around here.
Anybody got a magic number cruncher that would help make this decision a little less subjective than just costs or vendor preference?
I am currently using a 600W digital light (both MH and HPS depending on veg or flower) for this area and it works fine, but during the summer the heat just gets too much for my grow room. So after looking at all the information I could I decided that maybe a COB LED light would help me at least turn off the HP and reduce the heat load in the grow room. I plan on using a design similiar to several other I have seen with the lights arranged in 3 rows of 4 COBS using alum L channel which should help keep the air flow open and the weight down. Spacing would be focus on maintaining 1 COB per sq foot.
Here is my planned list:
(12) Artic Alpine 64 Plus CPU coolers. They say the can handle up to 70Watts energy/heat each, and I don’t plan on driving the COBs that hard at all. (already have these items)
(1) Mean Well LPV-35-12 driver for the cooler fans The output for this is rated as 12 volts, 35 Watts and 3 Amps. Since the specs for the Alpine 64 plus show they consume 12 volts, 1.56 Watts and 0.16 watts each I think the power supply should cover that with no problems if I wire them in parallel.
(3) Mean Well HLG-185H-C1050 drivers. I have 2 of these on hand, so that is why I am looking at this specific item assuming it will be enough to get me to the numbers I need that 4ft x 3ft space.
(12) COBS running at 3000K or 3500K and here is where I am on shaky ground. I am looking for efficiency as well as keeping costs down so I am torn between Cree and Bridgelux. It seems real hard to get comparable numbers from Cree vs. Bridgelux (at least what I can find), so I am really wondering which brand/series might be best. I am not looking for a super light blaster, just something that will match what I can do with my 600watt HPS with less heat and somewhat affordable. I know I can up the power with both the Cree 3590s or the Gen7 Vero29’s, but I would then have to get stronger drivers which will drive my costs up quite a bit.
I am leaning towards the Vero29 just because I do not see a lot of difference in what they can do vs. the CBX-3070’s and the connectors are way cheaper for the Veros than the Cree. I can get the Pico EZ0mate connectors for $1.23 each vs the Ideal holders that with shipping are running me about $4.17 each and then the Vero29’s are about 25.66 each vs the Cree for $32-$38 each depending on bin.
So looking for any help from this forum, as I sure see a lot of knowledge and advice passed around here.
Anybody got a magic number cruncher that would help make this decision a little less subjective than just costs or vendor preference?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFeGgzTAA8vkzWTM7SWiQPlYAhNe3GMGi
These vids will help you match your drivers to your cobs. They will give you all the math youll need. Theyre more polished than any answer I can give.
They only cover crees, so youll have to pull the corresponding inputs from the vero specs.
I believe one of the vids pulls a screenshot from RIU that may show some vero numbers. There are references to threads on RUI that you can search.
Hate to send someone to another forum, but some folks over there have put in a ton of work and testing already.
Supposedly, veros are meant to be driven hard. You may be able to buy fewer of them and put the money into drivers instead.
Wish I could be more helpful.
EDIT: You can surpass the your 600w hps using cobs while pulling very similar watts at the wall while lowering the heat that's generated.
These vids will help you match your drivers to your cobs. They will give you all the math youll need. Theyre more polished than any answer I can give.
They only cover crees, so youll have to pull the corresponding inputs from the vero specs.
I believe one of the vids pulls a screenshot from RIU that may show some vero numbers. There are references to threads on RUI that you can search.
Hate to send someone to another forum, but some folks over there have put in a ton of work and testing already.
Supposedly, veros are meant to be driven hard. You may be able to buy fewer of them and put the money into drivers instead.
Wish I could be more helpful.
EDIT: You can surpass the your 600w hps using cobs while pulling very similar watts at the wall while lowering the heat that's generated.
C
cannaisok
Sorry for the question, it was answered for sure.
Can I run a cxb3590 lower than 1400mA?
Cree Product characterization site doesnt show any specs lower than 1400mA.
Can i still use a 700mA Driver and have a 3590@30watt?
I want to cover a 3x4 Space using less than 400watts total from the wall including 16-26watts exhaust and active heatsinks.
25-30watts per sft should be right if i go with 5-8x cxa3070(have already 6of em) and think of biying 4-6x cxb3590
everything@ 30W would be 360watts total, right?
I still have no drivers (only 3x 900mA36v china) and plan to go with active coolers at very low settings, around 10watts to power 12 active coolers.
If you have any suggestions, please help. Thanks!
I run one 210W ceramic light and it performs perfect on a 2x2 space but its not enough herbs.
and two of them would pull 455w wich is just too much...
i could go vert but veg time would be longer and consume even more electricity, i have no experience how much i could yield thiat way compared to 3x4in horizontal lightsituation..
I am dealing with a sort of dilemma because i dont know wich way to go is better now :/
sorry if i went too far off topic, can edit my post any time
Can I run a cxb3590 lower than 1400mA?
Cree Product characterization site doesnt show any specs lower than 1400mA.
Can i still use a 700mA Driver and have a 3590@30watt?
I want to cover a 3x4 Space using less than 400watts total from the wall including 16-26watts exhaust and active heatsinks.
25-30watts per sft should be right if i go with 5-8x cxa3070(have already 6of em) and think of biying 4-6x cxb3590
everything@ 30W would be 360watts total, right?
I still have no drivers (only 3x 900mA36v china) and plan to go with active coolers at very low settings, around 10watts to power 12 active coolers.
If you have any suggestions, please help. Thanks!
I run one 210W ceramic light and it performs perfect on a 2x2 space but its not enough herbs.
and two of them would pull 455w wich is just too much...
i could go vert but veg time would be longer and consume even more electricity, i have no experience how much i could yield thiat way compared to 3x4in horizontal lightsituation..
I am dealing with a sort of dilemma because i dont know wich way to go is better now :/
sorry if i went too far off topic, can edit my post any time
Wildgrow,
Thanks for the information you shared. I had watched those videos earlier this year, in fact a couple of times as it is a lot of info for someone like me who is more mechanically inclined and who gets confused when he steps into the world of wire and electricity. But slowly it is starting to sink in and I haven't burned anything up (yet).
I think based on what I have seen that the design I picked will world (component wise) but I am still not grasping some of the concepts enough to be able to pick what selection of options (various current levels as well as various cob models) will be the best choise for what I am trying to do. Might just be my thick head!
Anyway thanks for reminding about those videos by Growmau5. He does do a good job of explaining down to my level! I will watch them again and see what sticks in my brain this time. I think my learning is a multi-pass system. Only a little bit sticks each time!
Again thanks, there are some great folks on both these forums that do a great job with sharing information and experience they have.
Thanks for the information you shared. I had watched those videos earlier this year, in fact a couple of times as it is a lot of info for someone like me who is more mechanically inclined and who gets confused when he steps into the world of wire and electricity. But slowly it is starting to sink in and I haven't burned anything up (yet).
I think based on what I have seen that the design I picked will world (component wise) but I am still not grasping some of the concepts enough to be able to pick what selection of options (various current levels as well as various cob models) will be the best choise for what I am trying to do. Might just be my thick head!
Anyway thanks for reminding about those videos by Growmau5. He does do a good job of explaining down to my level! I will watch them again and see what sticks in my brain this time. I think my learning is a multi-pass system. Only a little bit sticks each time!
Again thanks, there are some great folks on both these forums that do a great job with sharing information and experience they have.
At 700mA each 3950 will be around 25Watts, to get 30W you will need a little more current. A popular driver value is 1050mA.
You can use the Chinese 100W drivers with 3 x 3590 in parallel, should get you about 33Watts each.
Dion
Active member
ur original plan seems solid
at 1050 mA u probably wont even need fans on those sinks
the vero7 will be just as good as the cree in this case, but id need to crunch the numbers to get exact answers on if its enough light.
i can do that for you in the next few days, as a starting point id consider taking the vero gen 7 and possibly running a bit harder
MATHS COMING SOON....STAY TUNED
Dion
Active member
such low currents its possible
i have run 3590s at 280mA so yes can run as low as u want
consider passive cooling(save watts and easy when driving so low)
really ur question is about how many chips and how hard to drive them to get enough light in ur space while staying under 400w?
prolly 12 at 300w total is ok
or 10 at like 350?
im drunk ask agian
lol
C
cannaisok
wow better than i expected! thank you!
really, great to have somebody helping you from another end of the world
really, great to have somebody helping you from another end of the world
Dion,
Thanks for the input. Please do run the numbers and if possible show what you did. The numbers part is where I get the glassy eye look. I understand how they use Ohms law to figure out the Volts or Amps or Watts, but really grasping how to calculate the Lums or Par value or Efficiency when a person is planning on running them lower than the vendor advertises is what leaves me feeling like I must have missed a few lessons in class.
Clueless in Seattle but learning!
Thanks for the input. Please do run the numbers and if possible show what you did. The numbers part is where I get the glassy eye look. I understand how they use Ohms law to figure out the Volts or Amps or Watts, but really grasping how to calculate the Lums or Par value or Efficiency when a person is planning on running them lower than the vendor advertises is what leaves me feeling like I must have missed a few lessons in class.
Clueless in Seattle but learning!
You can't calculate those things directly, because Cree don't publish PAR related data. You need to find someone that has a PAR meter and has measured a similar setup that you are looking at building.
Dion
Active member
incorrect brother, once again
incorrect brother, once again
nope its not on the data sheet because u have to find LER out of SPD to calculate par watts to find efficiency
Input power [W] x efficiency [dimensionless quantity] = radiant power [W]
luminous flux [lm] / LER (luminous efficiency of radiation) [lm/W] = radiant power [W]
radiant power [w] x QER (quantum efficiency of radiation) [µmol/J] = photon flux [µmol/s]
photon flux [µmol/s] / area [m^2] = photon flux density [µmol/s/m^2]
incorrect brother, once again
nope its not on the data sheet because u have to find LER out of SPD to calculate par watts to find efficiency
Input power [W] x efficiency [dimensionless quantity] = radiant power [W]
luminous flux [lm] / LER (luminous efficiency of radiation) [lm/W] = radiant power [W]
radiant power [w] x QER (quantum efficiency of radiation) [µmol/J] = photon flux [µmol/s]
photon flux [µmol/s] / area [m^2] = photon flux density [µmol/s/m^2]
C
cannaisok
Great thread
Now i Want to compare Watt/LUX/mA of cxa3070 and cxb 3590
cxa/cxb are not too far apart so these numbers can be used by oher people concidering 3-6%tollerance.
cxa3070, AB-Binning
700mA = 3970LM=35v=24,5W
1050mA = 5700LM=36,3v=38w
1400mA = 7200LM=37,5v=52W
cxb3590 ,cd Binning
700mA =? (i think even lett than 25W)
1050mA =?
1400mA = 8400LM = 34,8v = 48,8W
Two Questions:
What is ideal LUX/SFT, I ask for LUX and not PAR cuz i Cant say what par each cob colour and series has exactly but u can correct me. I heard of people claiming 7000LM to be MINIMUM for Flower but im pretty sure it was HPS LUX and thats aprox 25% less usefull am i right? so 4500LM of CXA/B is my target? Maybe u can clear me up.
If we go by PPF we shoot 700-1100PPF without co2, right?
What PPF Flux do cxa/cxb deliver when run @700,1050mA?
I really dont want to drop below 700PPF because my 210w 2x2 setup has about 1000PPF easy peasy, have budmold on wr started at day 43 and 68%rh cuz the buds are too massive hard and fat. i dont want to loose too much on this quality, but quantity is still little more important. if i get 400g-1pound of 300w led compared to 170-190g from a225w, i would go for it asap!
but if 300w 700ma bring me to 250g of low qrade cannabis its nothing for me!
Can we figure this a little out? how many W/LM/PAR per SFT we really want at least to grow good organic meds?
if i go with 3070@700/SFT/25w = it that powerfull enough if my plants are 3-4foot tall, upper 1,5-2foot having buds on it?
and, where can we buy better than CD bin? DD would be so much better..
many questions, but this is where i am at now...
Now i Want to compare Watt/LUX/mA of cxa3070 and cxb 3590
cxa/cxb are not too far apart so these numbers can be used by oher people concidering 3-6%tollerance.
cxa3070, AB-Binning
700mA = 3970LM=35v=24,5W
1050mA = 5700LM=36,3v=38w
1400mA = 7200LM=37,5v=52W
cxb3590 ,cd Binning
700mA =? (i think even lett than 25W)
1050mA =?
1400mA = 8400LM = 34,8v = 48,8W
Two Questions:
What is ideal LUX/SFT, I ask for LUX and not PAR cuz i Cant say what par each cob colour and series has exactly but u can correct me. I heard of people claiming 7000LM to be MINIMUM for Flower but im pretty sure it was HPS LUX and thats aprox 25% less usefull am i right? so 4500LM of CXA/B is my target? Maybe u can clear me up.
If we go by PPF we shoot 700-1100PPF without co2, right?
What PPF Flux do cxa/cxb deliver when run @700,1050mA?
I really dont want to drop below 700PPF because my 210w 2x2 setup has about 1000PPF easy peasy, have budmold on wr started at day 43 and 68%rh cuz the buds are too massive hard and fat. i dont want to loose too much on this quality, but quantity is still little more important. if i get 400g-1pound of 300w led compared to 170-190g from a225w, i would go for it asap!
but if 300w 700ma bring me to 250g of low qrade cannabis its nothing for me!
Can we figure this a little out? how many W/LM/PAR per SFT we really want at least to grow good organic meds?
if i go with 3070@700/SFT/25w = it that powerfull enough if my plants are 3-4foot tall, upper 1,5-2foot having buds on it?
and, where can we buy better than CD bin? DD would be so much better..
many questions, but this is where i am at now...
Dion
Active member
ok ok i got my spread sheet in front of me lets see if i can work this out
2 of those drivers 6 cobs each? yes (you can run 7 cxb3590s on those though)
so i only have the numbers for the gen 2 veros(the gen 7s are supposed to be better than cxb3590 though)
12 x 3500k vero29 gen 2 in ur space at that current will pull 452w from the wall and give you a ppfd of 788(taking into account 10% loss for walls/optics)
so in summation: ur plan will kick ass
good luck and post some led porn when u build please
Dion
Active member
wow better than i expected! thank you!
really, great to have somebody helping you from another end of the world
you have the same size space as above, if u run 12 CXB3590 at 700mA each you will have 303watts delivering 747ppfd
