LED FAQ) Building and DIY

[Sforza]

Hit supra up on his thread and im sure he'll break it down better than anyone.

I take a more simplistic approach...i just build them and move on. Don't really look at every possible option or look for peak efficiency.

I am with you brother. Build it, use it, learn from it, and move on. It seems like some guys spend so much time and energy trying to come up with the perfect system and ultimate efficiency that they never get around to actually building a light and using it to grow plants.

I could understand the obsession with efficiency if the amount of electricity was limited, but I got a wire running into my house that sends me all the electricity I could possibly use 24/7. Less efficiency means more heat, but fans can move a lot of air and get rid of a lot of heat in the process.

Neither the electricity nor the components are very expensive, especially when taken in the context of how much great ganja goes for these days. Even if you build the ultimate efficient system today, in a year or so there will probably more efficient COBs and drivers available, rendering your current system obsolete in terms of efficiency, but it will grow ganja just as well as it did when it was state of the art.

 

[Sforza]

no- his driver is 1.95mA below the max for his cobs



its fine to run cobs in parallel but you have to measure the voltage and calculate the current correctly and plan for failure

why r u giving advise about stuff u dont know?

Then buy a driver that is suitable for the COBs.

Planning for failure is OK, but just running them in series and planning for success is better.

I give advice on stuff I don't know about because this is the internet just like you giving the advice that you have to use COB holders to run Cree LEDs.

 

[Chloemobile]

Then buy a driver that is suitable for the COBs.

Planning for failure is OK, but just running them in series and planning for success is better.

I give advice on stuff I don't know about because this is the internet just like you giving the advice that you have to use COB holders to run Cree LEDs.

No, but giving half truths and advice through your own personal lens rather than objective fact based advice is damaging to the community and the purpose of this thread. Some people don't have the disposable income or time to just go buy components and try builds that may not work. I totally appreciate putting proper planning into a build to get the best bang for your buck while you have the time/cash to build.

 

[Namgorf]

Hey Sforza, thanks for the advice. I have read a lot of Supra's stuff on RIU. He does know his shit. I wish I understood electrical stuff better. When it gets really technical I get lost. But, I'm not giving up. I am going to build out a new space and a new flower cab. My lighting will either be COB LEDs or a 150W hps. I feel like COB LEDs are the future and I want to get on board. We'll see. I really appreciate everyone's feedback.

Cheers!
Tex

Try watching these videos, they are very helpful for beginners.

DIY LED Basics - for noobs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdN6d0v814

DIY LED basics - common configurations for your grow space:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxcgF1FLCM

DIY LED Basics - choosing your heatsink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFj-FxIbCbg

 

[ivan2015]

Very interesting !! ty

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Thanks Namgorf. I'll take a look at those. I've been looking for some good LED for dummies kinda starter materials. I understand a lot of the basics, but I get lost easily when the conversation gets into really technical jargon.

Peace!

Edited: Actually, thanks a shit-ton Namgorf. I watched all three of those videos and I think I had more sink in to my thick fuckin' melon in those 50 minutes or so than I've had in the last several weeks of reading. Maybe I just needed to hear a voice explaining things and drawing things, having the audio and visuals, but so much that didn't make sense to me before makes sense now. I totally recommend the videos as must see for dumbass LED noobs like me.

Cheers mate!
Tex

 

[Mr. Vapo]

Hi all!

A long time lurker here, seeking of advice.

I want to start with expressing my gratitude to Dion for this great thread! This has been very informative and a fun read.

I have a ”small” dilemma about choosing between the power supply and was hoping someone can help me.

People have just discussed about the same kind of things in the last posts, so maybe this is going to be even useful to someone. Just try to bare with me.

I am building a light for a friend and I want to make the fixture as safe as possible. Best method for this is to keep the voltage low, as he does not have protective earth grounded sockets in his place, so I cant implement protective circuit in the light. I know I can use a residual-current device, but would prefer not to and also the budget is tight allready.

The plan:

This is going to be a light from seed to harvest.

I am thinking of using 4 x CXA3070 3000K AB-bin chips in parallel and with a simple 1.5A safety fuse for the cobs.


For the power supplys, Mean Well ELG-150-36B (@0.525-1.04A) or the Mean Well ELG-150-42B (@0.450-0.90A).
Mainly I want to use these for the price and I believe 150W would be enough for his a bit under 2x2ft SCROG space.

It would be very useful to be able to dim the light under 50% as it is just spending energy (75W) pointlessly in the seedling/veggin stage.


OK, now on with the questions.

What should I use to dim the power supply under 50%? Can I use 10K ohm resistor and 100K ohm potentiometer in series between the dimming wires as someone suggested with the HLG-185H-C1050B model?


The second dilemma.

If I would get the Mean Well ELG-150-36B (36V) version. Is the forward voltage of the chip too much for the power supply to handle when its used at maximum (1.05A)? Or can the PS compensate for that and give the rest "available" power to the missing voltage? The chip would have 36.16 vF @ 1.05A with 40 celsius Tj and this is a bit over the power supply rated maximum (36V).

Is it possible that the other Mean Well ELG-150-42(B) can also compensate for the excess power and transfer it to the amperage and give full 150W that it is rated?

I just remember someone wrote here that the Mean Well HLG-185H-C1400 drivers can give you a bit more juice, if you are not using the full capacity of the voltage/current. I don´t know does it apply for the excess voltage or the current or even for the ELG series…

Quote was something in the lines of:
”You paid for 200W so your going to get 200W”, but I cant seem to find the post anywhere.

Anyways, enough of my ramble.

What do you guys think? Am I just over thinking the whole thing. Should I just get the ELG-150-42B (42V) version and live with the possible lower watts.

I know it is not that much difference, but with the 2x2 space 125W vs 150W is still something.

Or should I just say effit and invest 30€ more for HLG-185H-42(B)?

Thanks in advance and sorry if I am not clear with my English. Tech talk with my native language is hard enough.

PS. If you have better ideas of color than the 3000K, I would love the input on that too.

 

[Dion]

Hi all!

A long time lurker here, seeking of advice.

I want to start with expressing my gratitude to Dion for this great thread! This has been very informative and a fun read.

I have a ”small” dilemma about choosing between the power supply and was hoping someone can help me.

People have just discussed about the same kind of things in the last posts, so maybe this is going to be even useful to someone. Just try to bare with me.

I am building a light for a friend and I want to make the fixture as safe as possible. Best method for this is to keep the voltage low, as he does not have protective earth grounded sockets in his place, so I cant implement protective circuit in the light. I know I can use a residual-current device, but would prefer not to and also the budget is tight allready.

The plan:

This is going to be a light from seed to harvest.

I am thinking of using 4 x CXA3070 3000K AB-bin chips in parallel and with a simple 1.5A safety fuse for the cobs.


For the power supplys, Mean Well ELG-150-36B (@0.525-1.04A) or the Mean Well ELG-150-42B (@0.450-0.90A).
Mainly I want to use these for the price and I believe 150W would be enough for his a bit under 2x2ft SCROG space.

It would be very useful to be able to dim the light under 50% as it is just spending energy (75W) pointlessly in the seedling/veggin stage.


OK, now on with the questions.

What should I use to dim the power supply under 50%? Can I use 10K ohm resistor and 100K ohm potentiometer in series between the dimming wires as someone suggested with the HLG-185H-C1050B model?


The second dilemma.

If I would get the Mean Well ELG-150-36B (36V) version. Is the forward voltage of the chip too much for the power supply to handle when its used at maximum (1.05A)? Or can the PS compensate for that and give the rest "available" power to the missing voltage? The chip would have 36.16 vF @ 1.05A with 40 celsius Tj and this is a bit over the power supply rated maximum (36V).

Is it possible that the other Mean Well ELG-150-42(B) can also compensate for the excess power and transfer it to the amperage and give full 150W that it is rated?

I just remember someone wrote here that the Mean Well HLG-185H-C1400 drivers can give you a bit more juice, if you are not using the full capacity of the voltage/current. I don´t know does it apply for the excess voltage or the current or even for the ELG series…

Quote was something in the lines of:
”You paid for 200W so your going to get 200W”, but I cant seem to find the post anywhere.

Anyways, enough of my ramble.

What do you guys think? Am I just over thinking the whole thing. Should I just get the ELG-150-42B (42V) version and live with the possible lower watts.

I know it is not that much difference, but with the 2x2 space 125W vs 150W is still something.

Or should I just say effit and invest 30€ more for HLG-185H-42(B)?

Thanks in advance and sorry if I am not clear with my English. Tech talk with my native language is hard enough.

PS. If you have better ideas of color than the 3000K, I would love the input on that too.

hi welcome

i didnt actually look at all the spec sheets of all the drivers u posted just wanted to add a quick thought


the reason i use a single driver per cob is what you are talkinga bout

1 dont wann deal with high voltage
2 i dont wanna spend big bucks ob dimmable drivers

my solution is to put each cob its own cheap chinese driver(6-10 euro each depending on model)

i suggest you do the same
on seedling time just turn 1 cob on

veg=2

flower=4

simple

i advise against PWM dimming because it does not increase efficiency just pulses the cobs

 

[grouchy]

Hi all!

A long time lurker here, seeking of advice.

I want to start with expressing my gratitude to Dion for this great thread! This has been very informative and a fun read.

I have a ”small” dilemma about choosing between the power supply and was hoping someone can help me.

People have just discussed about the same kind of things in the last posts, so maybe this is going to be even useful to someone. Just try to bare with me.

I am building a light for a friend and I want to make the fixture as safe as possible. Best method for this is to keep the voltage low, as he does not have protective earth grounded sockets in his place, so I cant implement protective circuit in the light. I know I can use a residual-current device, but would prefer not to and also the budget is tight allready.

The plan:

This is going to be a light from seed to harvest.

I am thinking of using 4 x CXA3070 3000K AB-bin chips in parallel and with a simple 1.5A safety fuse for the cobs.


For the power supplys, Mean Well ELG-150-36B (@0.525-1.04A) or the Mean Well ELG-150-42B (@0.450-0.90A).
Mainly I want to use these for the price and I believe 150W would be enough for his a bit under 2x2ft SCROG space.

It would be very useful to be able to dim the light under 50% as it is just spending energy (75W) pointlessly in the seedling/veggin stage.


OK, now on with the questions.

What should I use to dim the power supply under 50%? Can I use 10K ohm resistor and 100K ohm potentiometer in series between the dimming wires as someone suggested with the HLG-185H-C1050B model?


The second dilemma.

If I would get the Mean Well ELG-150-36B (36V) version. Is the forward voltage of the chip too much for the power supply to handle when its used at maximum (1.05A)? Or can the PS compensate for that and give the rest "available" power to the missing voltage? The chip would have 36.16 vF @ 1.05A with 40 celsius Tj and this is a bit over the power supply rated maximum (36V).

Is it possible that the other Mean Well ELG-150-42(B) can also compensate for the excess power and transfer it to the amperage and give full 150W that it is rated?

I just remember someone wrote here that the Mean Well HLG-185H-C1400 drivers can give you a bit more juice, if you are not using the full capacity of the voltage/current. I don´t know does it apply for the excess voltage or the current or even for the ELG series…

Quote was something in the lines of:
”You paid for 200W so your going to get 200W”, but I cant seem to find the post anywhere.

Anyways, enough of my ramble.

What do you guys think? Am I just over thinking the whole thing. Should I just get the ELG-150-42B (42V) version and live with the possible lower watts.

I know it is not that much difference, but with the 2x2 space 125W vs 150W is still something.

Or should I just say effit and invest 30€ more for HLG-185H-42(B)?

Thanks in advance and sorry if I am not clear with my English. Tech talk with my native language is hard enough.

PS. If you have better ideas of color than the 3000K, I would love the input on that too.

If you go with the cxb3070 you would be able to run it on the 36b meanwel as it takes 36v compared to the cxa3070 at 38.5v. At the lower currents they would each draw a little less than their max I listed.

I never saw you mention pulse width dimming. Is the driver setup with the 5 in 1 dimming? If so the potentiometer and resistor sound correct for the dimming.

It sounds like a fun build but I haven't looked in to that model driver (but I will as it sounds nice at 150w). Should end up very bright.

 

[Mr. Vapo]

hi welcome

i didnt actually look at all the spec sheets of all the drivers u posted just wanted to add a quick thought


the reason i use a single driver per cob is what you are talkinga bout

1 dont wann deal with high voltage
2 i dont wanna spend big bucks ob dimmable drivers

my solution is to put each cob its own cheap chinese driver(6-10 euro each depending on model)

i suggest you do the same
on seedling time just turn 1 cob on

veg=2

flower=4

simple

i advise against PWM dimming because it does not increase efficiency just pulses the cobs

Hi Dion and thanks for the welcomes!


Yeah, sorry about the specsheets. I was trying to upload pictures, but didnt go as planned…


I totally get your point for the 1 cheap chinese driver per cob and probably would take your advice on that, if it were my lights. Im allways leaning for the K.I.S.S method if I can. But as my friend has given me guidelines and one of them is to make the light as clean as I can and with little as possible drivers etc. I want to respect the quidelines and his wishes if I can.


Second reason is, that I can have a MW power supplys and get the MW 5 year warranty and quality, for almost the same price as the cheap chinese ones. I dont mean those cheap are bad in any way, but would have my peace of mind on the matter. The new Mean Well ELG series is just about 45€ a piece.


For the dimming under 50% option, there is the benefit for the more equal light spread in the veg. I dont know does it really matter that much on the veg as I am not that experienced on the matter.


I dont want to sound as an a-hole, who has made his mind up and doesnt want to listen advice, but I kind of am…


I dont really know anything about the dimming, but these ELG-series seem to have the same kind of characteristics in dimming wise as the HLG-series. So I would use the resistor type dimming. Im not that techie and please correct me if I am totally reading the specsheets wrong. After all Im just copying your guys work.


There is still the forward voltage thing on the ELG-150-36, if any of you could give a definitive answer?


Thanks for the input, I really appreciated it, even if I sound as a nay sayer and disagreeing with you. At least on this particular case.


Here are the specsheets for the ELG drivers (you have to scroll down to the ELG Series and pick 150. The straight link does not work for some reason):
http://www.meanwell.com/webnet/search/seriessearch.html

 

[Mr. Vapo]

If you go with the cxb3070 you would be able to run it on the 36b meanwel as it takes 36v compared to the cxa3070 at 38.5v. At the lower currents they would each draw a little less than their max I listed.

I never saw you mention pulse width dimming. Is the driver setup with the 5 in 1 dimming? If so the potentiometer and resistor sound correct for the dimming.

It sounds like a fun build but I haven't looked in to that model driver (but I will as it sounds nice at 150w). Should end up very bright.

Thanks for the input crouchy!

Those CXB:s would be awesome and a sure thing, but there is the stupid budget that jumps in again and ruins the day…

I dont mean no disrespect, but I am not following you excactly with those CXA forward voltage numbers you mentioned?

CXA3070 AB-bin numbers with those MW PS driven at maximum output, are as follows (atleast with the Cree Product Characterization Tool):

ELG-150-36B:

4.17A devided by 4 COB = 1.04A per COB.
CXA3070-AB-bin @ 1.04A has forward voltage of 36.10 (in 40 celcius Tj).
1.04A x 36.10V x 4 COBs = 150W

ELG-150-42B:

3.57A devided by 4 COB = 0.9A per COB.
CXA3070 @ 0.9A has forward voltage of 35.61 (in 40 celcius Tj).
0.9A x 35.61V x 4 COBs = 128W

Thats so close in my perspective with the forward voltage that I might as well pull the trigger on the 36B, right?

For the dimming, the specsheet says it has 3-1 dimming function and it looks the same as in the HLG-series for my layman eyes. If you would be so kind to check the specsheet and tell me the right way to do the dimming under 50%. My knowledge on these matters are pretty limited and I have just copied the way someone was dimming their HLG-185H-1050B from 10-100%.

Specsheets for the ELG drivers (you have to scroll down to the ELG Series and pick 150. The straight link does not work for some reason):
http://www.meanwell.com/webnet/search/seriessearch.html

Yeah, the new ELG-series drivers sound great for the ones who dont need the 200W output and wants to save some bucks. The efficiency is not of course as good with the HLG-series, but 90-91% doesnt sound bad at all.

 

[positivity]

mr.vapo

Maybe consider the cxb 3070 which would fit better on the driver. At 1a it should draw less than 35v. Wouldn't mess with cxa anymore unless its a huge price difference.

dimming should be the same setup..pot with resistor

For color 3500k seems to be a good kelvin. 3k may get a little more stretch...4k a bit less. Hard to say, they've all grown well in the end

 

[Dion]

Hi Dion and thanks for the welcomes!


Yeah, sorry about the specsheets. I was trying to upload pictures, but didnt go as planned…


I totally get your point for the 1 cheap chinese driver per cob and probably would take your advice on that, if it were my lights. Im allways leaning for the K.I.S.S method if I can. But as my friend has given me guidelines and one of them is to make the light as clean as I can and with little as possible drivers etc. I want to respect the quidelines and his wishes if I can.


Second reason is, that I can have a MW power supplys and get the MW 5 year warranty and quality, for almost the same price as the cheap chinese ones. I dont mean those cheap are bad in any way, but would have my peace of mind on the matter. The new Mean Well ELG series is just about 45€ a piece.


For the dimming under 50% option, there is the benefit for the more equal light spread in the veg. I dont know does it really matter that much on the veg as I am not that experienced on the matter.


I dont want to sound as an a-hole, who has made his mind up and doesnt want to listen advice, but I kind of am…


I dont really know anything about the dimming, but these ELG-series seem to have the same kind of characteristics in dimming wise as the HLG-series. So I would use the resistor type dimming. Im not that techie and please correct me if I am totally reading the specsheets wrong. After all Im just copying your guys work.


There is still the forward voltage thing on the ELG-150-36, if any of you could give a definitive answer?


Thanks for the input, I really appreciated it, even if I sound as a nay sayer and disagreeing with you. At least on this particular case.


Here are the specsheets for the ELG drivers (you have to scroll down to the ELG Series and pick 150. The straight link does not work for some reason):
http://www.meanwell.com/webnet/search/seriessearch.html

no matter which driver u go for i advise use the A version so that we increase efficiency when we dim

so seen as u want to use the cxa and u dont want high voltage so u will run paralel and u want dimming

of these id go for the ELG-150-42A

because its volts are 21-42v and

as u said(didnt check)
ELG-150-42B:

3.57A devided by 4 COB = 0.9A per COB.
CXA3070 @ 0.9A has forward voltage of 35.61 (in 40 celcius Tj).
0.9A x 35.61V x 4 COBs = 128W


if u go the

ELG-150-36B:

4.17A devided by 4 COB = 1.04A per COB.
CXA3070-AB-bin @ 1.04A has forward voltage of 36.10 (in 40 celcius Tj).
1.04A x 36.10V x 4 COBs = 150W


the max Vf of this driver is 36v

so what it will do is reduce the current until the leds will fit or flicker

so u will end up at the limit of this driver and seen as it will shut down in over voltage mode

proably the 36 version will be fine though

id just get that one

and look for version A

 

[Dion]

@ Rilla

i alway look for this link and so im posting it here

thanks dude


http://www.leds.de/en/Umrechnungswerkzeug/

 

[jikko77]

this post is became a bibble

 

[Namgorf]

MASSIVE harvest from Cree cxb3590 DIY led grow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT5ivLc3ZFY



DIY LED Basics: mounting leds/COBs to heatsinks (pt. 4/6):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elBzBTtE78I

 

[Koondense]

That growmau5 is a very cool guy. Wish he'd drop by some time

His designs are very neat, mine looks way too messy!

Prototype led modules by Koon

 

[John LOQUE]

shit! One of my chinese led drivers is dead. After a few months of intensive work, ok, but it's short. Maybe it's just one bad driver, or maybe they gonna die, one after the other. I don't know yet...
Next buy will be a meanwell

 

[Dion]

shit! One of my chinese led drivers is dead. After a few months of intensive work, ok, but it's short. Maybe it's just one bad driver, or maybe they gonna die, one after the other. I don't know yet...
Next buy will be a meanwell

this is interestintg

r u sure it isnt the wire connection?

do u have a link to the one you got?

mine havnt failed yet

sometimes the heatsinks can be smaller than they should be on those enclosed types

information is always helpful

thanks for sharing

 

[Dion]

That growmau5 is a very cool guy. Wish he'd drop by some time

His designs are very neat, mine looks way too messy!

Prototype led modules by Koon

View Image

im surprised to see you didnt mount all the sinks and drivers onto a frame, why are you going with the cob chandelier ?