El Timbo
Well-known member
No need for that at all - especially as your own written English is hardly perfect.
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LED and Male plant percentages
- Thread starter Lolo94
- Start date
No need for that at all - especially as your own written English is hardly perfect.
Sometimes the answer IS definite. Environment causing intersex traits to emerge is not changing the gender of the plant.
You seem conflicted, on the one hand you are asking for a yes or no answer and on the other you are complaining that poeple are too quick to give a definite answer.
and if you are worried about answers confusing the issue, WTAF are you doing in here confusing the issue with your nonsense ?
VG
It's his assumption which has no real basis except from his own limited experience and observation. This experience does not count in other factors which are surely more of a probable cause for his outcome.
If lights would have anything to do with sex expression, believe me, it would get noticed straight away a lot of time ago.
Cheers
The pollen from the same male was also utilized to pollinate a Red Congolese clone. I grew the offspring indoors in 2018 under identical conditions and got males. It was a high Female to male ratio (7/10).
All other growers that I've known have only grown this IBL outdoors in Hawaii and have never mentioned getting all females. I've had this strain over 25 years and grew it many times outdoors without this issue. This my second time attempting to reproduce it indoors (no longer have the ideal outdoor climate) with the same results (no males). No one that I know has grown this particular line indoors.
I maybe talking out of my arse here, but in the back of my head, there seems to be a ghost whispering chimeras name. Didn't he once say that Hermie's all have the female genetic marker? I can't recall the details, and he has too many posts to start trawling through. Can anyone else remember him talking about lab testing Hermie's for markers?
Wish my memory was better at times. I may have got that totally confused.
Wish my memory was better at times. I may have got that totally confused.
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Right, anecdotally i have heard a few stories of tropical sativas returning mostly girls from seed.. and they only reason i can imagine is that 'ladyboy' or intersex females have been used.
But you can be sure that the light you are using, and growing them indoors instead of outdoors, will NOT change the gender of your plants. I have been growing under LEDs in small spaces for a long time.
VG
I haven't researched the science of it much, so i have no evidence except observation. This is what Tom Hill and i were discussing the other day and he has also seen 'males' pop up in feminised lines.
I have had it happen in 2 lines that i have made, and Tom siad it had happened to him too.
So if you have a strongly intersex female that appears male.... and is used as the male to make seeds, all of the seeds made should be female... but i guess some of them may also express as strongly intersex females and look like males.
If it had happened to me only once, i wouldnt be certain that it wasn't my own error... but it has happened to me on 2 separate pollinations and both times the Katsu bubba or purple kush was involved, and these two cuts are closely related.
also, the peyote purple strain, which is a katsu bubba S2, is a feminised seedline sold as a regular seedline because there are 'males' in the progeny.
so my thinking is , if the single male used by lolo was the type of male i am talking about.. it would explain the all female thing.. and i guess the other cross he made that gave him 7/10 females could have been showing as 3 'ladyboys' and 7 females.
i know, i don't like this kind of speculation either... but it would explain the problem.
Tom swore blind that he had the same thing just happen to him - a 'male' in fem seeds that he had made.
in both mine and Tom's cases, the 'males' looked like true males and had no female flowers.
VG
Have you grown any plants outdoors from this exact batch of seeds?
if so, did you get males?
I just tried to look it up, but there's nothing scientific published that I can see. I suppose if a damaged x breeds with another damaged x, some of the girls may look like boys. I must have misread or imagined the chimera posts, I checked his past threads, but nothing obvious.
Your answer certainly makes sense.
Your answer certainly makes sense.
Your botany is better than mine, so if you think it is possible then i am encouraged...
this is what Tom said
this is what Tom said
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 344
Finally had another male pop up in some of our feminized autos we're running for winter seed production and had a chance to use the youPCR screen. I know that both parents were true females and made the seed myself. Phenotypically, the plant was 100% male--not a single female hair present (they often show up on the tips of pollen sacks on hermaphrodites). The genomic screen came back negative for a Y chromosome. I don't have time or space at the moment to let it flower and pollinate other known females for progeny testing, but that's what needs to be done to move us all forward on this.
Haha like Mussolini from the balcony son of a bing son of a boom guessing correctly on the first try - told you guys.
GMT, Tom also said that haze was 70% female in his experience...
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Is that 'botanically possible', or could it only be the case if some plants were showing their gender in an 'off' way ?
VG
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Is that 'botanically possible', or could it only be the case if some plants were showing their gender in an 'off' way ?
VG
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to grow outdoors since I made the seeds. A couple of friends have grown some from that batch in Hawaii but neither mentioned anything out of the ordinary. That being said, neither were trying to breed the plants and weren't looking for males in their personal grows.
When the plants were initially grown in the early 90's, there were intersex individuals that were eliminated and not used for breeding. These intersex plants were male that showed female pistils late.
Since then, this trait has never resurfaced.
I can see if you reverse and pollinate a male, due to now knowing yy won't bind, 66% would be boys, but to get a close percentage to 70% you'd need it to be 75% for girls. The only way I could figure it would be with each female having one faulty parental gamete.. Either an error in the sex chromosome or autosome that silences the male flower production, or responds to that silencer respectively.
Then if either or both parental gamete supplier gave at least one healthy side, the flower would be entirely female, but if both contributed faulty sides, the male flowers could be produced. It raises several questions though. Such as why these females with male flowers, don't also show female flowers. Or why they would consistently show that ratio since it would only take the parent to be healthy on both sides to cancel that ratio out. Which should happen 25% of the time statistically. And from then on.
Ah no of course, one parent must be double faulty in order to show the male flowers in order to breed. But then you'd end up with a 50:50 ratio 25% of the time.
Hmmm, I'm thinking as I'm typing.
No the auto some must be healthy in order to not see intersexed flowers, on the "good girls" so the issue has to be the x chromosomes themselves in order for the male flower commands in the autosome to be silenced by the one healthy x signals.
The remaining question is why you don't see female flowers on the double duds. That must mean the dud chromosome is completely dud. Which means that line of cannabis, rather than having an active y sex system, is actually an x to auto some system. I never believed that system was accurate even though a few have claimed it. Active Y is the more common by a long way.
Yeah, there's a faulty x at play that isn't sending the silencing signals to the male flower auto some.
Sorry, I haven't tidied that up, just left it raw ponderings. Hope it makes some sense VG, I don't fancy trying to make that neat, it took me half an hour to get that typed as I thought lol.
Then if either or both parental gamete supplier gave at least one healthy side, the flower would be entirely female, but if both contributed faulty sides, the male flowers could be produced. It raises several questions though. Such as why these females with male flowers, don't also show female flowers. Or why they would consistently show that ratio since it would only take the parent to be healthy on both sides to cancel that ratio out. Which should happen 25% of the time statistically. And from then on.
Ah no of course, one parent must be double faulty in order to show the male flowers in order to breed. But then you'd end up with a 50:50 ratio 25% of the time.
Hmmm, I'm thinking as I'm typing.
No the auto some must be healthy in order to not see intersexed flowers, on the "good girls" so the issue has to be the x chromosomes themselves in order for the male flower commands in the autosome to be silenced by the one healthy x signals.
The remaining question is why you don't see female flowers on the double duds. That must mean the dud chromosome is completely dud. Which means that line of cannabis, rather than having an active y sex system, is actually an x to auto some system. I never believed that system was accurate even though a few have claimed it. Active Y is the more common by a long way.
Yeah, there's a faulty x at play that isn't sending the silencing signals to the male flower auto some.
Sorry, I haven't tidied that up, just left it raw ponderings. Hope it makes some sense VG, I don't fancy trying to make that neat, it took me half an hour to get that typed as I thought lol.
Since my attempt to find a male was unsuccessful, I am doing just that. I don't want to waste any more of the original seeds attempting to reproduce this line indoors. I just started some Malawi x (Nigerian Nightmare x Bodhi Afghani) seeds to find a male to cross with the Swazi. This hybrid grows vigorously and shows sex quickly (3 weeks from germination at 12 hours of lighting). From what I've read this a trait inherited from Nigerian Nightmare.
Sorry lolo, I was taking to VG about toms haze with that comment. If your line has historically had a 50:50 ration of male to female, its unlikely to apply to your line. However if your line is an uncrossed landrace with a 3:1 ratio of female to male, it may also apply to yours.
Swapping the sex chromosomes out from x to autosome , to active y with healthy female chromosomes, may in theory make a huge difference to the size of the female buds.
Edit, by uncrossed landrace, I mean not crossed to domesticated cannabis.
Swapping the sex chromosomes out from x to autosome , to active y with healthy female chromosomes, may in theory make a huge difference to the size of the female buds.
Edit, by uncrossed landrace, I mean not crossed to domesticated cannabis.
Thanks GMT, i'll need to do some reading around what you've described but i'm glad there are possibilities that might explain all this.
Hi Lola, good luck in your endeavors....
Do you still have the female plants ? one way you could make some pure Malawi seeds is to reverse one of them and make some feminised seeds.. worth considering.
Or perhaps you could try and find someone else with the line and try to procure some seeds from a different batch or even just some pollen.
VG
