LED and BUD QUALITY

[CannaT]

The plant in this photo needs 2-3+ weeks to ripen imo. Ive had strawberry diesel and bruce banner that had good density and was fully ripe. It does look close to yours, but i do doubt they harvested any time soon.

Heres an example of strawberry diesel from my friends personal grow from 2016-2017ish.
View attachment 18884544 He never used pgrs or PK boosters. This was at week 9. Also, boosting PK does not inherently reduce quality whatsoever. If you are supplementing PK and your feed is in range, youre doing good things. Everyones setup is different and requires fine tuning. Im in the middle of that now, thats for sure!

I never say that this grow is grown to perfection..
there can be improvments for shure nobody can grow to perfection in first run under different conditions than usual.
If I wait 10-15 days more buds will be more rounded for shure but this cutting become after day 65 so strong that for many is to much to sleepy...but I need something to smoke.
Everything is better than empty jars.

Lights are new and had been tested.
More nutes will yild more and give more dense buds and better yild.
But its far away from way to early chop.
Its for my personal stash and I like less nutes to it.
Dont care about yild at all.

I dont consider myself as someone who grow everything perfect,here I have many plants grow some few times...and I clearly say when its not propper grown.

But what I dont like and thinks always is not good.
To have green plants at harvest.
Low N plants at harvest always tastes better 4 me.

And I rearly see that these days.
Maybe Im to oldschool but thats my expirience.

 

[Crooked8]

I never say that this grow is grown to perfection..
there can be improvments for shure nobody can grow to perfection in first run under different conditions than usual.
If I wait 10-15 days more buds will be more rounded for shure but this cutting become after day 65 so strong that for many is to much to sleepy...but I need something to smoke.
Everything is better than empty jars.

Lights are new and had been tested.
More nutes will yild more and give more dense buds and better yild.
But its far away from way to early chop.
Its for my personal stash and I like less nutes to it.
Dont care about yild at all.

I dont consider myself as someone who grow everything perfect,here I have many plants grow some few times...and I clearly say when its not propper grown.

But what I dont like and thinks always is not good.
To have green plants at harvest.
Low N plants at harvest always tastes better 4 me.

And I rearly see that these days.
Maybe Im to oldschool but thats my expirience.

Youre seeing that less because a very respected study apparently proved “without a doubt” that flushing is pointless and detrimental. People call it “bro science” and stupid to flush plants at this point. Being the nerd I am, we put this to the test with our flagship strain. 3 samples, 1 no flush, 1 one week and a two week flush. I blind tasted 4 colleagues on her nose and flavor. 2 of 4 liked the 1 week flush the best, 1 liked the 2 week flush and 1 liked the no flush. I flush in ebb and flow too so its truly flushing vs a soil scenario. So 3/4 preferred flushed product vs none. Food for thought

 

[CannaT]

The plant in this photo needs 2-3+ weeks to ripen imo. Ive had strawberry diesel and bruce banner that had good density and was fully ripe. It does look close to yours, but i do doubt they harvested any time soon.

Heres an example of strawberry diesel from my friends personal grow from 2016-2017ish.
View attachment 18884544 He never used pgrs or PK boosters. This was at week 9. Also, boosting PK does not inherently reduce quality whatsoever. If you are supplementing PK and your feed is in range, youre doing good things. Everyones setup is different and requires fine tuning. Im in the middle of that now, thats for sure!

Bruce banger I grew before from DH was way different I have some pictures will post it here.
It needs 2-3 weeks but will still be very airy when harvested.

Canna's smoke reports.

Hello, guys I think that describing smells and effects goes pretty well for me and that I will be able to show you what I enjoy in my smoking sessions.

www.icmag.com

I dont know why I cant open this pictures but Its last smoke report on site.

 

[greyfader]

Youre seeing that less because a very respected study apparently proved “without a doubt” that flushing is pointless and detrimental. People call it “bro science” and stupid to flush plants at this point. Being the nerd I am, we put this to the test with our flagship strain. 3 samples, 1 no flush, 1 one week and a two week flush. I blind tasted 4 colleagues on her nose and flavor. 2 of 4 liked the 1 week flush the best, 1 liked the 2 week flush and 1 liked the no flush. I flush in ebb and flow too so its truly flushing vs a soil scenario. So 3/4 preferred flushed product vs none. Food for thought

are you in rockwool? and do you recirculate? just wondering because rockwool has virtually no cec and it occurred to me that may be part of the potassium problem. not really related to "flushing" so much but i quoted your post just to get your attention.

 

[Crooked8]

are you in rockwool? and do you recirculate? just wondering because rockwool has virtually no cec and it occurred to me that may be part of the potassium problem. not really related to "flushing" so much but i quoted your post just to get your attention.

I do recirculate. Reservoir changes once a week. I allow ph to swing between 5.8-6.2. And yes in rockwool. Curious why that would be an issue for K? CEC i thought mattered more for ph buffering than improving uptake. Ive never had the issue in the past. Its only since driving them with higher ppfd and co2 enrichment. Why would recirculating inhibit K uptake? Thanks for any insight, much appreciated!

 

[greyfader]

I do recirculate. And yes in rockwool. Curious why that would be an issue for K? Ive never had the issue in the past. Its only since driving them with higher ppfd with co2 enrichment. Why would recirculating inhibit K uptake? Thanks for any insight!

i don't know yet. you have made me curious about your problem and so i'm just getting into the range of potassium reactions in hydroponics that may have some bearing on it.

for the last 27 years, i have been all hydro and mostly recirculating.

what nutrients are you using? at what concentration? and what is the co2 level being applied? i'm in perlite and in the past, I have tried perlite alone, which also provided no cec. i had several different nutrient issues. i stopped using perlite for about 5 years because of this.

this year i've been amending perlite with substances that have a significant cec and the issues disappeared.

i have a weird method of problem solving. i don't understand why you are having this problem and for my own knowledge, and to help you, i now want to understand what is happening.

thanks for putting up with my weird approach. but, in the past, i've never found a nutrient problem i couldn't eventually solve.

i have not really been keeping up with the thread so i apologize for having you repeat anything you have shown before.

 

[Crooked8]

i don't know yet. you have made me curious about your problem and so i'm just getting into the range of potassium reactions in hydroponics that may have some bearing on it.

for the last 27 years, i have been all hydro and mostly recirculating.

what nutrients are you using? at what concentration? and what is the co2 level being applied? i'm in perlite and in the past, I have tried perlite alone, which also provided no cec. i had several different nutrient issues. i stopped using perlite for about 5 years because of this.

this year i've been amending perlite with substances that have a significant cec and the issues disappeared.

i have a weird method of problem solving. i don't understand why you are having this problem and for my own knowledge, and to help you, i now want to understand what is happening.

thanks for putting up with my weird approach. but, in the past, i've never found a nutrient problem i couldn't eventually solve.

i have not really been keeping up with the thread so i apologize for having you repeat anything you have shown before.

Forgive this being a read. As I said before this K issue has never been a prior problem in my career. Nutrition in general has never been an issue until we started using leds. Ive done several personal grows that showed healthy growth their entire cycle….

All of the above were either HPS or CMH grows and we had great success. Some with and some without co2. When enriching ive done as little as 800 ppm to 1500 ppm in the past in some of these grows. No issues with K. Ebb and flow and dwc.
Then I tried my hand leading at a commercial spot, all ebb and flow, no K issues….

It wasn't until I built my current lab that things got iffy with our feed. Weve fed anywhere from 1.2-3.0 ec in various formats. The sweet spot before was always around 1.4 during veg to 1.8 during flower. Putting them under these lights really drove up ppfd hitting very high #s in some areas. This i believe has pushed up the need to level out all these cardinal parameters to fit the high level of lighting.

Bugbee states 1200ppm is ideal because we are at saturation here, the bell curve barely goes up at all to 1400ppm whereafter it drops off and theres theres little to no benefit. Basically wasting co2 above that limit. So were steady at 1200-1250ppm our entire cycle. In veg were at 1100ppm. I never supplemented co2 in veg until this grow and boy was i silly for not doing so.

This veg space cranks…

Anyway, i think my K def and N def are a result of simply not feeding enough. Im going to push veg to 1.6 and flower to 2.2 this next round and see how we do. Ive noticed since supplementing K some strains looks like they are just absurdly happy about it vs other familiar strains seem weirdly less dense. Its a head scratcher there. Wont know for sure for another couple weeks what were in for.

As for feed, we use house and garden aqua flakes as a base, some of their boosters, multi zyme, top booster at week 5, and bud xl. We use botanicares hydroguard, hydroplex(very little) and silica blast. Again playing with the ec but historically around 1.4-1.8.

As for the new space and their deficiency…not too bad of results ….

 

[greyfader]

i can't wait to get back to co2 use. i'm in a leaky old farmhouse while i'm building a house down the road about 5 miles. i will run a sealed space there.

do you have a close-up pic of the leaf edges showing the problem? i've downloaded your tissue analysis and have been looking at it.

what was your ppfd before and after the problem displayed?

rockwool has perhaps the most linear matric potential curve so i don't see too rapid drying causing much of a ph change in the medium.

what are your magnesium and nitrogen percentages in the starting solution?

 

[greyfader]

looking at your recent pics it looks as if you have gotten past the problem. unless it is recurring elsewhere.

 

[Crooked8]

i can't wait to get back to co2 use. i'm in a leaky old farmhouse while i'm building a house down the road about 5 miles. i will run a sealed space there.

do you have a close-up pic of the leaf edges showing the problem? i've downloaded your tissue analysis and have been looking at it.

what was your ppfd before and after the problem displayed?

rockwool has perhaps the most linear matric potential curve so i don't see too rapid drying causing much of a ph change in the medium.

what are your magnesium and nitrogen percentages in the starting solution?

Absolutely….

As we move up the plant it becomes less and less dramatic. Its appears obvious the correction helped. The buds looks great too at this stage(day 39). These photos are all from our flagship girl, most of the other genetics arent showing this or in a less obvious way.

Ppfd got raised from an average of 6-700 week 1 of flower to 7-800 week 2(saw the K def starting around here) then week 3 a big bump to about 900-1000(upped K in feed here and saw it stop worsening) and in some areas at week 4 fully cranked we are hitting 1300+ at some of the tops 10-14ish inches away.

I dont know our current feed in ppm or % i need to do a solution analysis, this is next for us. We need the full picture. Feed analysis from veg and early flower. Then another multiple sample tissue analysis again at week 3. Then we can really get an idea of what they are getting vs what they are given. I was advised to do this special water analysis for our tap water and its almost half a grand so yeah not too excited to do that but i will.

 

[Crooked8]

looking at your recent pics it looks as if you have gotten past the problem. unless it is recurring elsewhere.

I agree, i think our next run will be seamless but well see. Im on it!

 

[greyfader]

while there may be adequate potassium in the feed low iron can reduce its uptake. you may have been on the cusp so to speak with iron and by upping the solution ec corrected the iron.

i don't know much about house and garden so i don't know the starting ratios.

also, low levels of both nitrogen and magnesium antagonize the uptake of potassium. it's possible that increasing the ppfd without increasing the ec simply resulted in low levels of these two in the plant as magnesium and nitrogen are the main elements in all chlorophyll types. this may have manifested as a potassium deficiency.

 

[Hammerhead]

MHXC5XMH @92 days. Grown under MARS FCE-6500. A little over 7' tall.

 

[Ca++]

Youre seeing that less because a very respected study apparently proved “without a doubt” that flushing is pointless and detrimental. People call it “bro science” and stupid to flush plants at this point. Being the nerd I am, we put this to the test with our flagship strain. 3 samples, 1 no flush, 1 one week and a two week flush. I blind tasted 4 colleagues on her nose and flavor. 2 of 4 liked the 1 week flush the best, 1 liked the 2 week flush and 1 liked the no flush. I flush in ebb and flow too so its truly flushing vs a soil scenario. So 3/4 preferred flushed product vs none. Food for thought

That is statistically correct, if all 3 samples were the same.

If all 3 samples were the same, and an infinite number of people were asked, then each sample would be chosen the same number of times. If one was chosen more often, yet was the same, it would be an anomaly.

With nothing to separate the 3 samples, and 3 people choosing, probability suggests each sample will be chosen once. Then as the forth person chooses, they must pick a choice that has gone before.

From another angle, 33% of choices were not flushed, and 66% were. Each vote was worth 25%. So the votes were spread as if the product didn't matter. Statistical bias gets the flushed voted twice as often, as it's twice the number of choices.


Had 75% of the participants made the same choice, that could be a result. However, 50% had to make the same choice, and it was 100% more likely to be a flushed weed than unflushed, due to there being 100% more flushed choices in the study.
I think you proved flushing doesn't gain votes

 

[Crooked8]

That is statistically correct, if all 3 samples were the same.

If all 3 samples were the same, and an infinite number of people were asked, then each sample would be chosen the same number of times. If one was chosen more often, yet was the same, it would be an anomaly.

With nothing to separate the 3 samples, and 3 people choosing, probability suggests each sample will be chosen once. Then as the forth person chooses, they must pick a choice that has gone before.

From another angle, 33% of choices were not flushed, and 66% were. Each vote was worth 25%. So the votes were spread as if the product didn't matter. Statistical bias gets the flushed voted twice as often, as it's twice the number of choices.


Had 75% of the participants made the same choice, that could be a result. However, 50% had to make the same choice, and it was 100% more likely to be a flushed weed than unflushed, due to there being 100% more flushed choices in the study.
I think you proved flushing doesn't gain votes

Totally see your point and tbh my personal favorite is one week. Tissue testing all 3 samples at the end would be nice but im pretty sure that it was in the previously mentioned study that there wasnt enough of a change in tissue to make a difference. The white ash debunked for temperature etc. i dont really know. Currently i flush one week. If i did this again id try to have a minimum of 10 participants.

 

[Ca++]

I think the people in these studies might change the outcome. Some kids are going to like their hash more, if you rolled it in shit to make to smell stronger. While people used to throttle their plants growth for weeks on end, while loosing terps under hot lights, might just find familiarity in that, that they like.

In the competitive world of growing to stock your shop outlets, you need to get it right. I think finishing on water is common, because the last feed need not waste food. This is an area well studied. Where you want to feed the least you can for financial reasons, but must also feed enough to be worth having the grow. So people will trail off feeding if they can. Which is going to be heavily influenced by media choice.

The biggest area of concern, isn't the flush, or the drying period. It's evening out the RH to around 58% and not overshooting. This keeps some enzymatic action going, and while some is getting sold in days, I feel 10-14 days a nice wait. Any less and there is a certain harshness, almost chemical like, that still needed some smoothing over.

If you run at full steam, right until chop, some customers might notice a change, but it's unlikely, and won't be spoken of negatively. This can make clearing a room a lot easier. While the coco grower really gets ahead on the next run, if using the same coco.


It's hard to make commercial sense of flushing, when it slows production, and nobody seems to notice.
For personal smoke, we do it how we like it. Even if it's just a head game, if we believe it's better, that is all that matters. I like that 10-14 days though. Shops shelving it in 5 is just crazy. I think.. anyway.

 

[greyfader]

the idea of flushing began with users of soil, where the medium accumulated excessive nutrients. it is much more difficult to control nutrient accumulation in soil than in soilless culture.

in soilless we can control nutrient application with precision and if you are moderate, say not exceeding ec2, you really don't need to flush.

you cannot flush nutrients out of the plant. you can starve the medium to reduce uptake while the plant uses up its internal stores.

i think spraying your plants with various substances like neem or pest control products influences the taste and smell of the final product more than nutrients.

i don't use anything on the aerial portion of the plant. but, i don't get bugs either because of my protocols regarding bringing plant material into a room and overall cleanliness.

 

[CannaT]

Hi guys I harvested my WW under leds.
Its very taerpy and sticky smell like hps grown but without solvents(alchocol,varnish,glue) all other smells are the same maybe they are more rafined with leds. Leds really put some terps that you dont notice with HPS.

But buds are very small I dont know why
They are rooted cuttings with only week of veg 4 in 1 pot that is 1 reason,2nd is maybe bit harder soil,3 temps 28-32 sometimes on really hot days,and 4 what was not perfect maybe to much air movement aka micro wind burn.
I tought mybe this DIY leds have small photons also as one of downers of this grow.

I will answer only on constructive answers or suggestions.

 

[Ca++]

Looks like a mold problem cannaT

 

[Crooked8]

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Hi guys I harvested my WW under leds.
Its very taerpy and sticky smell like hps grown but without solvents(alchocol,varnish,glue) all other smells are the same maybe they are more rafined with leds. Leds really put some terps that you dont notice with HPS.

But buds are very small I dont know why
They are rooted cuttings with only week of veg 4 in 1 pot that is 1 reason,2nd is maybe bit harder soil,3 temps 28-32 sometimes on really hot days,and 4 what was not perfect maybe to much air movement aka micro wind burn.
I tought mybe this DIY leds have small photons also as one of downers of this grow.

I will answer only on constructive answers or suggestions.

How far along were these? Do you typically enjoy stuff thats taken a little earlier? Looks like it has some sparkle to it. It also looks like a lot of foliage died off, was this on purpose? And yeah, 1 week veg typically wont show huge yields.