LED and BUD QUALITY

[Charles Dankens]

Kali Mist's not characteristically red is it? The red leaf stems and fairly light green foliage, hints at Mg deficiency.

Did you bug spray them before flower?

I dont think so. Bottom petioles are green and so are upper sugar leaf petioles, not exposed to direct light.
The leaf color appears light because of angle of photo. I have grown KM many times under powerful led rigs and i interpret the red/purple coloration as a response to high PPFD.

My last light was a home made cob rig, it drew ~650w using cree and vero cobs. This is a 500w 3 bar diode light. Both are high efficiency. My space is 2x4 so illumination is at the very high end. Red petiole plant response is common.

Here's a few pics showing red petioles. Triangle grape cake, NL5 both showing same coloration.

The canopy pic shows same KM fem and KM reg 10 days back. The bud shot is last KM grow.

No bug spray. I am big on foliar. Late veg, early flower I used a few foliar combos but not bug related.

 

[Ca++]

Isn't that like 2000 ppfd?
I wholeheartedly accept your explanation lol

 

[Charles Dankens]

Isn't that like 2000 ppfd?
I wholeheartedly accept your explanation lol

Using that photone app I try to manage ppfd 800/1200. When im around the flower room i do give full blast for 90 mins per day. It can easily hit 2k depending on lamp height. No CO2 here so I keep intensity below 1500.

 

[Hiddenjems]

Nothing to do with high vs. stoned, it's all about the CBN being too heavy after about 15% amber. Significant numbers of people confuse sleepiness with potency. I've noticed people only like things within their window of awareness. lol

One of the strains I run has never gotten me higher than a sample cut I took at 6 weeks with zero amber and barely any cloudy. I typically chop it at 7 weeks.

 

[Koondense]

What are your temperature (Td/Tn) ranges?
Asking because I noticed with my diy leds(CXB3590 and Vero29s) in lower Td(also Tn) I get more darker magenta-purple on plant parts which are more exposed to light. Usually petioles first, later exposed leaf parts. It's funny because many times the almost touching partially shadowed leaves get the "zebra" stripes, you can actually see the long term shadows in green.
My average ppfds should be in 800-900 range, maybe a bit less because the leds are getting older now.
None of these symptoms could be changed with nutrients, but would change with light intensity(also DLI), temperatures and humidity(VPD). So I assume it was more of a problem with everything else before a lack of Mg or other nutes. The plant metabolism is mostly limited by the environment.
I'm thinking about adding some deep red leds(660nm bars) for this grow but must some find motivation to put them together(diy). My temps are already on the limit, next week will be even higher so maybe not the time for more watts in the tent...or if I blend them in and lower the whites...

Ok, the Amnesia x Panama is kicking in, no more typing

Cheers

 

[Crooked8]

View attachment 18877468
I see that its coming again...but If you happy with outcome its all good.

Your grow and your flowers

Come on, pass your hat round. I will put in $20 for tissue sampling. I have to know

Tissue sample submitted. I had to ship overnight and this place was very expensive which is lame. But ill get full analysis by Friday. So we can finally put everyones theories to bed including my own. Ive heard it all from im cal deficient, cal tox, overfed, underfed, K deficient, P tox, N deficient and more. I still think K deficiency is the most likely but well know soon!

 

[greyfader]

Tissue sample submitted. I had to ship overnight and this place was very expensive which is lame. But ill get full analysis by Friday. So we can finally put everyones theories to bed including my own. Ive heard it all from im cal deficient, cal tox, overfed, underfed, K deficient, P tox, N deficient and more. I still think K deficiency is the most likely but well know soon!

i get red petioles at the top of the canopy with most strains.

 

[Hiddenjems]

i get red petioles at the top of the canopy with most strains.

For me it shows I have the light intensity maxed out for that strain. It seems like the next step up in lighting intensity is deformed leaf growth at the top.

It takes really bright lights to max out cannabis Dli at only 12 hours of light. But in veg it’s easy to see what to much light a day does.

 

[greyfader]

For me it shows I have the light intensity maxed out for that strain. It seems like the next step up in lighting intensity is deformed leaf growth at the top.

It takes really bright lights to max out cannabis Dli at only 12 hours of light. But in veg it’s easy to see what to much light a day does.

last grow i used 1200 ppfd for 8 hours producing a dli of 34.5 moles. 12 hours of 750 ppfd is 32.4 for comparison

 

[Hiddenjems]

last grow i used 1200 ppfd for 8 hours producing a dli of 34.5 moles. 12 hours of 750 ppfd is 32.4 for comparison

Yeah for me it seems like somewhere around 800 at 12 hours the other inputs can no longer keep up. I’m building a better area with co2, so I’ll see how much brighter I can get.

 

[CannaT]

Tissue sample submitted. I had to ship overnight and this place was very expensive which is lame. But ill get full analysis by Friday. So we can finally put everyones theories to bed including my own. Ive heard it all from im cal deficient, cal tox, overfed, underfed, K deficient, P tox, N deficient and more. I still think K deficiency is the most likely but well know soon!

Now we will see who can guess the best.

 

[Ca++]

I'm already thinking of a new user name.

Gonna need a few professional opinions, on cannabis sufficiency ranges. Here are the opinions of three, on one table

Hemp Leaf Tissue Nutrient Ranges: Refinement of Reference Standards for Floral Hemp | NC State Extension Publications

As a newly legal crop, little information exists about optimum nutrient levels in hemp. This publication provides additional information on hemp leaf tissue nutrient ranges from a survey conducted between 2017 and 2020.

content.ces.ncsu.edu

They are only field and greenhouse cbd plants though. So there is room for interpretation, when we are wrong

For anyone needing to brush up on this subject

StackPath

Really need to know what figures Bugbee is working with. He has been refining that ion balancing, for space travel, meaning LED.

 

[Charles Dankens]

What are your temperature (Td/Tn) ranges?
Asking because I noticed with my diy leds(CXB3590 and Vero29s) in lower Td(also Tn) I get more darker magenta-purple on plant parts which are more exposed to light. Usually petioles first, later exposed leaf parts. It's funny because many times the almost touching partially shadowed leaves get the "zebra" stripes, you can actually see the long term shadows in green.
My average ppfds should be in 800-900 range, maybe a bit less because the leds are getting older now.
None of these symptoms could be changed with nutrients, but would change with light intensity(also DLI), temperatures and humidity(VPD). So I assume it was more of a problem with everything else before a lack of Mg or other nutes. The plant metabolism is mostly limited by the environment.
I'm thinking about adding some deep red leds(660nm bars) for this grow but must some find motivation to put them together(diy). My temps are already on the limit, next week will be even higher so maybe not the time for more watts in the tent...or if I blend them in and lower the whites...

Ok, the Amnesia x Panama is kicking in, no more typing

Cheers

I apologize if you were not directing this question to me

I built a far red bar to augment the cob rig. I didn't think it was worth the effort.

Current light has far red built in.

My cob rig ran a good bit hotter than this chill led light. My light on temps ran from 77/93° depending on season.

So far the 3 bar light is running 75/85. The bars barely get warm and the driver is remotely positioned next to exhaust.

If I dim the 3 bar light to 75% the heat drops of significantly, probably the efficacy is improved too.

 

[Ca++]

It's unusual to hear about temperatures getting high with LED.
Perhaps some of those cobs could be air cooled?

Couple of heatsinks boxed into a channel there.
If that seems like work, then a plant pot over an individual cob heatsint, like a bell, could offer a means to attach a duct to your extraction. Using 600s I took pipes to the filter, where some heat was easily motivated to go.

Some of the more recent 660s are doing 4umol/w and are 1 watt rated, with a maximum power of 2w. Just 3.5mm Samsung chips. The 351 iirc. There don't seem to be great choices in cobs for 660 only, so easy cooling is lacking. Though linear boards to take a 3.5mm chip are common, and liner heatsinks, that could be boxed fairly easily. If the heatsink was 40mm wide, then a 40mm slot could run the length of an 80mm duct. Using it like 'C' shaped capping.

I think extracting from cobs is easier, as you have a lot of heat at a single point. It might not look very good, retrofitting buckets over them. A lot of peoples cob rigs do just have the heatsinks stood on racks though, ready for a pipe with holes in, to be dropped over them. If that chair was the metal grid holding them cobs, then that duct could be literally just sat over them. No need to even take the lights down, or switch them off. Though some thermal fuses might be useful on the heatsinks, if the airflow stalled. $1 items.

It a lot easier to cool LED than HID ever was. Though there seems to be zero effort to try.

 

[GF-Z]

I apologize if you were not directing this question to me

I built a far red bar to augment the cob rig. I didn't think it was worth the effort.

Current light has far red built in.

My cob rig ran a good bit hotter than this chill led light. My light on temps ran from 77/93° depending on season.

So far the 3 bar light is running 75/85. The bars barely get warm and the driver is remotely positioned next to exhaust.

If I dim the 3 bar light to 75% the heat drops of significantly, probably the efficacy is improved too.

You can read led diode datasheet, to see Tmax after which efficiency drops significantly and just use temperature meter (some voltmeters have this function) and stick sensor to led panel as close as possible to diode and measure temp couple of times during peak time of "day"... or just use laser temp reader. You will be sure. Cheers. (temp is very important for leds)

 

[bs0]

Recently I grew some plants under Electric Sky V3, HLG 350R, and HPS . The HPS buds are great as usual. The Electric Sky buds are nice and aromatic, close to the HPS. And the HLG buds
are less aromatic and less taste but still pretty decent. It seems like the extra far red spectrum of the electric sky really did help the quality. Have you guys noticed similar results??

What I've noticed with switching from hps to led is that the leds often have to be turned down from being too bright. Also need proper spacing from your canopy.

I have not noticed any real change in taste/quality. As long as the spectrum is good leds will work great.

 

[Ca++]

You can read led diode datasheet, to see Tmax after which efficiency drops significantly and just use temperature meter (some voltmeters have this function) and stick sensor to led panel as close as possible to diode and measure temp couple of times during peak time of "day"... or just use laser temp reader. You will be sure. Cheers. (temp is very important for leds)

A small fan on yours lights, can give a greater umol/j than the lights do

A typical LM301 warming from 25 to 85, looses about 12% of it's output. Or 0.2% per degree.

This means a 500w light, is loosing 60w of it's output, at 1w per degree of increased temperature.
A 0.7w 60mm fan was put on a 120w QB. Lowering the temperature considerably. Showing that powering the fan, led to more light, than putting that power into the QB.
The further above room temperature that light gets, the easier it is to loose some heat from it. That QB was running about 80w. So the gain would of been higher at full power. It was also the finned heatsink. Not the later (current) HLG, where they don't even use fins. Be aware, the output of a light that we see from testing, is not testing done after a warmup. There is nothing saying that a light being tested, has not just been cooled, and tested quickly. This same slack design philosophy can be seen from a number of light manufacturers people have shown me. Where decorative extrusions meant for low powered LEDs, have been used where more industrial looking heatsinks are called for. The HLG QB is a great example, where the original used a finned heatsink, and later they just use a metal plate. Which wouldn't respond so well to fan cooling. These are cost savings we don't see as the light warms up, and helps them sell us lights cheaper. Which is fine if you use budget brands anyway. However, if you are paying for meanwell and LM301's then you are paying for the upmost efficiency. So having these parts used in a cheap build is quite wasteful. Though manufacturer testing can hide this easily.

There are real gains in lighting efficiency to be had, with tried and tested cooling techniques. I'm still seeing large opp's who's main outlay is power, use aircon because nobody is making them anything better.
We have all seen a dichroic lamp. Used in downlighters, they are pretty much illegal now, as they contained a halogen capsule. They were very silver looking reflectors. You would be forgiven for not noticing how well designed these lamps were. That silver coating, reflected visible light, but not IR. Placed in the ceiling, the light came down, but much of the heat went off into the void. That is a pretty technical lamp spec, that makes our current situation look ill thought out. Cramming in masses of light, with no thought towards cooling needs, except that the LED doesn't melt in the first year. It's not at all holistic.

Fans are a service item though, which won't last the 7ish years a light should. That's why we only see PC fans in cheap lights, where their purpose is to buy smaller heatsinks. Not to run cooler.
For cobs, I quite like the heat-pipe solution applied to PC CPU's. Them chips are often 100w, and have proper internal sensors reporting temperatures in the 30s. It's a very technical solution though. For a cob, which isn't technically much good.


While all this is rather a lot to think about, the takeaway point, is that a little fan might increase your light output, by a few umol, or a few years. Don't let them get scolding hot.

 

[Charles Dankens]

First run with this lamp. These plants were vegged outdoors.

Ive got a gap of 12-18 inches light/canopy. The dimming function is essential in my setup.


Chill Led provides info about the light I'm using in link:.

Growcraft X3 - 500 Watt DIY LED Grow Light Kit

Growcraft Light Spectrum Options Passive Cooling Linear Bar Design Thin Profile – Only 1.375in Tall Rugged T Slot Bar Design Oversized surface area for maximum heat dissipation Remote Power Driver Location Lower your heat load by removing power driver outside grow area Assembly Instructions...

chilledgrowlights.com

I am super pleased with the light so far. These plants are about half way through flowering and i predict a bountiful harvest.
KM will go a min of 70-77 days. My last run was 100 days.

 

[Hammerhead]

The original Kalimist was my fav Sat..

 

[Charles Dankens]

The original Kalimist was my fav Sat..

Ya it's still special to many sat lovers.

I'm using a different nutrition approach this time trying to get more KM vybe expressions. Hope it's not 100 days plus.