What’s PSB? My soil grown plants under LED severely lack terps, and I need to find out why.
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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
I wonder if adding a few t5ho 3' lamps with Aquarium coral bulbs or Reptile UV bulbs in between your bars would pump up the Terps?
+1
I like your comments, keep it coming.
I didn't mean the 30% heat is bad or something, I just said in terms of light and ppfd values, a 400 hps is pushing heat in high ratios, you can use this heat of course and it is needed more then we think.
At least someone is noticing the headless stems that LED make... people are starting to say I'm crazy.
Dust off the DE, you won't look back.
Change to CMH/HPS.
No it won't, you must have intensity.
Add a 250/400 hps for better results.
here are some more "headless, underdeveloped trichomes for you!
Everyone else here has shown pics of their plants.
it's your turn now! put up or shut up!
http://www.bio21.bas.bg/ippg/bg/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/99_3-4_03-16.pdf
light stress is real. your ignorance is real!
in the pic below, what are all the white round things?
editing to say that this is "rare lemonhead" and i grew it under a diy led light
Everyone else here has shown pics of their plants.
it's your turn now! put up or shut up!
http://www.bio21.bas.bg/ippg/bg/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/99_3-4_03-16.pdf
light stress is real. your ignorance is real!
in the pic below, what are all the white round things?
editing to say that this is "rare lemonhead" and i grew it under a diy led light
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i can understand you not believing me as i am just an old pothead.
but for you to assault the integrity of one of the most respected plant scientists in the world, Dr. Bruce Bugbee, is beyond belief!
do you really think you know more about plants than he does?
but for you to assault the integrity of one of the most respected plant scientists in the world, Dr. Bruce Bugbee, is beyond belief!
do you really think you know more about plants than he does?
Looks like you need to add a 250 hps for better results bro
Put up or Shut up!!
[Maschinenhaus]
Active member
Now Bugbee has criticized Lydon on several occasions. His criticism of Lydon is wrong several times. This is now the second video I've seen of him making this mistake. He should read more the literature and reviews of US researchers who have written their doctoral theses on cannabis, do intensive research on cannabis and post less on youtube.
This is how Schmid writes:
There are studies that show that certain wavelengths reduce terpenes by 100%, others increase them, and so on.
The most widespread misunderstanding, which can still be read from time to time in recent studies, is that the two different absorption spectra of chlorophyl a & b are responsible for the different action spectrum of the two photosystems. However, the investigations on this subject came to nothing because the absorption beyond <700nm could not be explained.
Today we know that chlorophylls behave differently in the leaf than in the test tube, and that the solution in acetone etc. damages the chlorophyll molecule. 2-4 nearby molecules can interconnect (di-, tri- or tetramer) to allow an exciton an excitation site/state far outside, thus dark red wavelengths are then captured and with the additional phononic energy contribution then moved to chemical work.
With the green wavelengths one suspects this also, here the data situation is however less strongly sown. There are several theories which are not even mutually exclusive.
There are many indications that the Far-Red range would have to be subdivided even further, because the far dark red 730nm to 780nm acts rather slowly and weakly on the photosynthetic rate, but unfortunately more on the phytochrome and near dark red 680nm to 720nm more strongly and also phytochrome-neutral.
Empirical tests are always such a thing. Often, the general conditions determine the result.
And always only Bruce Bugbee trouble, instead of studying other researchers, the far more intensivean Cannabis Sativa research, is just also not the right way to discuss as a layman!
This is how Schmid writes:
There are studies that show that certain wavelengths reduce terpenes by 100%, others increase them, and so on.
The most widespread misunderstanding, which can still be read from time to time in recent studies, is that the two different absorption spectra of chlorophyl a & b are responsible for the different action spectrum of the two photosystems. However, the investigations on this subject came to nothing because the absorption beyond <700nm could not be explained.
Today we know that chlorophylls behave differently in the leaf than in the test tube, and that the solution in acetone etc. damages the chlorophyll molecule. 2-4 nearby molecules can interconnect (di-, tri- or tetramer) to allow an exciton an excitation site/state far outside, thus dark red wavelengths are then captured and with the additional phononic energy contribution then moved to chemical work.
With the green wavelengths one suspects this also, here the data situation is however less strongly sown. There are several theories which are not even mutually exclusive.
There are many indications that the Far-Red range would have to be subdivided even further, because the far dark red 730nm to 780nm acts rather slowly and weakly on the photosynthetic rate, but unfortunately more on the phytochrome and near dark red 680nm to 720nm more strongly and also phytochrome-neutral.
Empirical tests are always such a thing. Often, the general conditions determine the result.
And always only Bruce Bugbee trouble, instead of studying other researchers, the far more intensivean Cannabis Sativa research, is just also not the right way to discuss as a layman!
i agree bugbee's work is flawed but so is everyone else's.
you can't find a perfect research paper.
"There are studies that show that certain wavelengths reduce terpenes by 100%, others increase them, and so on."
could you please provide links to these studies? i am reading a lot in the area of terpene development and preservation right now.
snakedope is refuting basic physics, he thinks light has density.
light has no mass and therefore no density.
his theory on hps power would have us assume some magical force heretofore unknown to man is propelling light.
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It's like the Owner of some fancy French Estate Vineyard bashing pictures of everyone else's Homebrewed beer and wine. Except nobody has seen one photo from this guy. Please Master, tell us more.
[Maschinenhaus]
Active member
I think he got it from here and did his own experiments with it, among other things?
Effects of Continuous or End-of-Day Far-Red Light on Tomato Plant Growth, Morphology, Light Absorption, and Fruit Production
Shading by sunlit leaves causes a low red (R) to far-red (FR) ratio that results in a low phytochrome stationary state (PSS). A low PSS induces an array of shade avoidance responses that influence plant architecture and development. It has often been ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
[Maschinenhaus]
Active member
He is currently no longer posting on the forum and I have no contact information.
thank you for trying!
[Maschinenhaus]
Active member
It is difficult to write to him by PN, he has disappeared and I am no longer active there since May 2022, I have permanently logged off there.
I'll leave you the link times to the German area where he wrote that.
thank you!
here's a good one!
www.frontiersin.org
here's a good one!
Frontiers | Cannabinoids and Terpenes: How Production of Photo-Protectants Can Be Manipulated to Enhance Cannabis sativa L. Phytochemistry
Cannabis sativa L. is cultivated for its secondary metabolites, of which the cannabinoids have documented health benefits and growing pharmaceutical potentia...
www.frontiersin.org
[Maschinenhaus]
Active member
Thank you for the link.
My last LED I built is 4 modules of 120W each, it delivers up to 1,144 µmol/s to the square meter.
These are normal COB mixed with SMD, no near UV and just some 730nm to match it with the range around 640nm to 680nm.
Currently, when I'm bored, I'm still building a 1,000mm beam with a maximum of 320W, also COB and PCB mixed from scraps and with a limit of 200€.
I then see what the differences will be to CMH, once with adjusted red range and once just standard 4,000K LED.
The good boards with near UV are currently exorbitantly expensive in Germany and have long delivery times. You pay over 50€ for a 3W SMD and the comparisons with CMH where a little near UV-A is emitted, suggest that you can do without it.
The best and cheapest way to build a good LED lamp is currently with 500mm Bridgelux Thrive SMD strips that can also be high current if necessary?
What the new SUNlike, Osram and Nichia will deliver must be seen?
My last LED I built is 4 modules of 120W each, it delivers up to 1,144 µmol/s to the square meter.
These are normal COB mixed with SMD, no near UV and just some 730nm to match it with the range around 640nm to 680nm.
Currently, when I'm bored, I'm still building a 1,000mm beam with a maximum of 320W, also COB and PCB mixed from scraps and with a limit of 200€.
I then see what the differences will be to CMH, once with adjusted red range and once just standard 4,000K LED.
The good boards with near UV are currently exorbitantly expensive in Germany and have long delivery times. You pay over 50€ for a 3W SMD and the comparisons with CMH where a little near UV-A is emitted, suggest that you can do without it.
The best and cheapest way to build a good LED lamp is currently with 500mm Bridgelux Thrive SMD strips that can also be high current if necessary?
What the new SUNlike, Osram and Nichia will deliver must be seen?
The oscillations that occur with LED's are caused by the AC power supply. Since led's are all DC current i would like to build an all DC current array. Does anyone know what the DC current requirements are?
editing to clarify that i mean to use a dc power supply.
editing to clarify that i mean to use a dc power supply.
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i have done some more reading and found that modern leds use a dc power supply that does not transfer the ac oscillations to the diode.
apparently, the old ones did.
so with a 50 hertz ac supply the old diodes would only be on 50% of the time. i thought i had some room to play with efficiency but it looks like everybody beat me to it.
a long time ago!
