LED and BUD QUALITY

[Corpselover Fat]

There are several photons being emitted by the chip at once and more are following them creating many tiny beams within the whole 115 degree light beam- You should see these as beams within the whole light beam of the chip.

Tell us more about these beams.

 

[Koondense]

LOL. You're the one who started mocking me when i didn't agree with your views and went all sarcastic with me. It's you who started this, dip shit. You have a short memory. Like i told back you then, it's ridiculous that sarcastic people start calling out other people's manners. F U

Go check my posts please, find out who was the one telling people to STFU and FU and stuff...for not "agreeing" with your interpretations.
I came here to tell you how things work and you mock me and others who want to help you understand better.
Then you came to us and say we're wrong...still perpetuating the same stories about air between lights and plants etc.
Your version of reality(physics) is just fantasy(at least how you keep explaining it) so I see it natural that people won't agree with your versions, they're just wrong.
So of course, we need to STFU and let you spill BS and telling people BS stories?
I won't be silent and hopefully others will school you ... it's for your own good.
Now you'll get the ignore function on, I truly don't care about your BS and don't need another dumb bully in my life.

 

[GoatCheese]

These filter but some light can still surpass. Some absorption is so minimal it only affects the light over a large distance, so you can see e.g. what ~80km (!) of water-vapour can only percentually take away in strength.

If you compare this to the effect of diminishing with distance, which can be drastic even with sheer meters - it's much negligible.

You’re arguing against your own assumptions and make belief bullshit, like few others here ..wtf are you talking about? What filtering are you talking about, i never talked about any filtering.



When i talk about the led light losing heat radiation in the air above your canopy, you start lecturing me about light scattering and light loss.

No actual light is needed to be absorbed out of the led light far as i’m concerned – it’s not a issue related to photosynthesis for many growers – What needs to go is the heat radiation of the led light and these beams leds create cause they dehydrate th plant tissue.

Are you clear with that now? It’s not a difficult thing to understand, is it.

No need for you math and rest of the wavelength and light scattering horseshit

Led light has a heat radiation issue that is dehydrating the plant tissue if the light fixture is too close to canopy in the set environment.

I keep repeating myself. I think i’m done with this thread.



Maybe you should think about what goes on in real nature and your grow room instead of cut-n-posting your math and graphs all the time. Let’s see another chart about wavelengths and Kilojoules. That will grow better bud, for sure.

...Raising your lights a bit might work too, what do you think, Cera? Some CalMag maybe, instead of light scattering curve? Proper RH%?

When was the last time you talked about cannabis growing with leds and bud quality in this thread, bro?!

I’m out.

 

[GoatCheese]

I came here to tell you how things work and you mock me and others who want to help you understand better.

The F Us started coming at you when you went all sarcastic, like a little child. It's perfectly fine if you don't agree with me but don't start giving me shit like a little high school boy when there was no reason.
I disagree with people all the time but i don't give them shit unless they started it. Mocking people back is the only thing that works with two-bit shit talkers.


How things work? What 'things'? "Bouncing off vs absorbed and almost instantly re-emitted are the same thing"-things?
If you don't know which one is the correct method in fact then how can you correct me, dumbo?

WTF have you told me about the heat radiation issue i'm talking about?! Absolutely nothing. You pretend your yellowed cob plants are just fine. What did you tell me about these "things"?
PM me if you want to get more into it. Let's talk about COBs yellowing out plants, you should actually join the convo - it's what this thread should be about, Koonsy

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Let's keep this very interesting thread on topic without any BS FU's, thanks!

 

[Loc Dog]

Sorry for being off current tangent, but anyone have opinion on bestva high end products??

 

[xet]

The (decreasing) downside of LEDs is penetration, which is overcome with intra-canopy lighting.

Penetration is overcome with Green light. Green is the only spectrum in the visible wavelength which penetrates the entire canopy and maintains special function in overall homeostatic photosynthesis of the plant. The green wavelength is so misunderstood that the LED market has created a false perception that LED cannot penetrate the canopy. Most of this green light research is found in NASA and University documents. I don't have anything to prove here - anyone can go and research what I have stated and also find out what I said is a path toward truth. They know to add red and far red diodes and even UV but the market is still too ignorant to realize they need green too. White LED's help but the umol/j still need to be higher than current 2.9/umol/j standards but displacing heat and maximizing photon output is a persistent issue because of research+development and an exponentially high cost barrier when making LED as a system more efficient.

 

[xet]

I've used HPS, CMH and LEDs. I would never go back to hid.

HPS and CMH is only 2 out of millions of different types of HID's.

If it were efficient and had a long lifespan then no artificial indoor light source would ever replace pure Carbon HID or pure Xenon HID. Then there are endless combinations of noble gases which is unexplored territory. Then there is the fact the Kelvin temps of current HID's are mostly BS insofar as 1 7200K will not be the same as another 7200K depending on the gases they chose to achieve that 7200K. So there are blanks to fill in and people are experienced on something that was not a true honest representation of what was advertised. In other words there are holes in the spectrums we are told we are given and if those holes were filled in like the sun is a perfect black body radiator (even the sun has it's holes in the spectrum, . another rabbit hole topic) then it would be almost impossible to replace HID. The main driver of innovation right now is cheap, not quality.

 

[Ca++]

Penetration is overcome with Green light. Green is the only spectrum in the visible wavelength which penetrates the entire canopy and maintains special function in overall homeostatic photosynthesis of the plant. The green wavelength is so misunderstood that the LED market has created a false perception that LED cannot penetrate the canopy. Most of this green light research is found in NASA and University documents. I don't have anything to prove here - anyone can go and research what I have stated and also find out what I said is a path toward truth. They know to add red and far red diodes and even UV but the market is still too ignorant to realize they need green too. White LED's help but the umol/j still need to be higher than current 2.9/umol/j standards but displacing heat and maximizing photon output is a persistent issue because of research+development and an exponentially high cost barrier when making LED as a system more efficient.

LED makes quite a bit of green light. The first ultrabrights were green, as it's easy to make. Some domestic lamps are so green I have returned them. Avoiding making too much is a thing. While the sodium light people think of as penetrating, really has very little.
The reason it gets through, is because the plant isn't making any real effort to catch it. There is a diary here of a green light grow, and it was making no progress at all.

Inta-lighting is real. Some leafy greens respond to green well, and the latest evo version of the 301 is going after that market. The analogues of canna such as tomato's are responding to inta-lighting though. Not green or colours we can't see.

People like gativa will get nasa papers on some other plant, apply the idea to canna, and sell it to us. They are all at it. Sticking in useless levels of UV because we want it and basil responded well. Far red, which has shown to do nothing on a few canna varieties. We must be very careful where we get our info from. Only Osram is actually running meaningful large scale trails on canna, at multiple locations. Some university professors are getting good funding now, but the field trials are somewhat smaller. These are the only sources churning out current data on canna lighting. I don't think nasa is on the list of canna researchers. They are not going to be a good guide from growing veg in space.

 

[Cerathule]

You’re arguing against your own assumptions and make belief bullshit, like few others here ..wtf are you talking about? What filtering are you talking about, i never talked about any filtering

You were claiming that "air cooled down photons". I've been presenting you with graphical data to be able to self-evaluate your stance.

When i talk about the led light losing heat radiation in the air above your canopy, you start lecturing me about light scattering and light loss.

there IS NO "losing heat radiation" it is just "photon loss" the lightbeam gets spread out by the positive beam angle.

BUT, there is selective spectrum decay but that is atmospheric filter/ layers.

Once you start understanding what's shown in these graphs you won't do some of these beginner's error anymore.

Led light has a heat radiation issue that is dehydrating the plant tissue if the light fixture is too close to canopy in the set environment.

I know how light-damage looks and in case of LED, is even different depending on wavelength. The HPS will rather display heat damage.
In my tent center one sideshoot exposed to the center 1500ppfd develops these "hash tips", that is photodestruction of pigments by excessive high light fluences:

The dry necrotic leaves you got once the light damage becomes so excessive the leaf is going to die soon as days after exposure. The photons actually cause an internal bleaching or oxidation from the buildup of oxygen radicals, such as singlett oxygen or H2O2, from the light energy that caused the S3 exciton state.

WTF have you told me about the heat radiation issue i'm talking about?! Absolutely nothing. You pretend your yellowed cob plants are just fine. What did you tell me about these "things"?
PM me if you want to get more into it. Let's talk about COBs yellowing out plants, you should actually join the convo - it's what this thread should be about, Koonsy

I have a finished plant in bloomweek 12 here at the center spot of 3 MH, HPS & COB lamps at ~1500ppfd but it's still green:

Too much nitrogen. It's not dehydrated, I kept the medium moist so whatever water is lost by photosynthesis creates a negative pull at the roots and it gets replenished.
There are certainly factors that influence this like if there is a K-def apparent or VPD.
It gets most light but continuous to stay green even though at only water for 2 weeks now (but this still can thrive on the horn scraps) All the sideplant went yellow from the meager diet. I'm gonna cut tomorrow.

The tops have been harvested last week already:

No trim, at 19-21°C and 70% rH and little air movement. After 2 days developed a hayy scent, then increased rH to 80% and it is now terminated.

The Green Poison x Kali Mist has an unspectular taste woody, pinene, hashy. It's effect is a rather soothing, pain relaxing, initially confusing, then after 2 hours develop into a heavy sedation, where it's difficult to stay on feet. This last quite long and when one awakes still have a warming feeling in the chest. It's a weed if one wants to have a fully relaxing time. It also soothes emotionally during the full time.
The plant grows strong, can take high fertilizer amounts and light levels. It grew without any nanners even in very high heat in summer 37°C, partially under HID lamps, 1500-1000PPFD from midflower on. Harvested on the 11th bloom week.
The budstructure is halfway airy and there was no case of mold whatsoever.

 

[Loc Dog]

LED makes quite a bit of green light. The first ultrabrights were green, as it's easy to make. Some domestic lamps are so green I have returned them. Avoiding making too much is a thing. While the sodium light people think of as penetrating, really has very little.
The reason it gets through, is because the plant isn't making any real effort to catch it. There is a diary here of a green light grow, and it was making no progress at all.

Inta-lighting is real. Some leafy greens respond to green well, and the latest evo version of the 301 is going after that market. The analogues of canna such as tomato's are responding to inta-lighting though. Not green or colours we can't see.

People like gativa will get nasa papers on some other plant, apply the idea to canna, and sell it to us. They are all at it. Sticking in useless levels of UV because we want it and basil responded well. Far red, which has shown to do nothing on a few canna varieties. We must be very careful where we get our info from. Only Osram is actually running meaningful large scale trails on canna, at multiple locations. Some university professors are getting good funding now, but the field trials are somewhat smaller. These are the only sources churning out current data on canna lighting. I don't think nasa is on the list of canna researchers. They are not going to be a good guide from growing veg in space.

I was under impression that cannabis completely ignores green light. Why I have a green flashlight, in case I ever need to look at plants during lights off. Never had a hermie using it, but have had them from red light on a power strip.

Also I have had severe harvest damage from too much light, using 1100 watts of vero 29 gen 7's. Leaves bleached out and buds stacked poorly.

 

[Corpselover Fat]

I was under impression that cannabis completely ignores green light. Why I have a green flashlight, in case I ever need to look at plants during lights off. Never had a hermie using it, but have had them from red light on a power strip.

Also I have had severe harvest damage from too much light, using 1100 watts of vero 29 gen 7's. Leaves bleached out and buds stacked poorly.

Green light (at lowish level anyway) shouldn't trigger the day night cycle, but it's used in photosynthesis just the same as other colours.

 

[Cerathule]

The plants photoreceptors largely ignore the green wavelength, they just don't absorb there. They rather focus on the both ends of the spectrum, maybe to be able to discern between dusk, dawn, direct or shadelight... So you can safe use it for exceptions but not for a strong or constant illumination, as they'd still would negatively react to that

 

[chilliwilli]

Never used green light but read at the swiss forum about it. Some used the lm301h-one diodes and they should be good for producing leaf mass. So in a veg light diy build i would try to mix them in.

I can't find the post but the spectrum of the lm301h-one should also have more far red and less blue in it.

One user had the experience that lm301h-one bud was more potend compared with CXB3590 growen but lacks aroma and quality of high

 

[Ca++]

This is the One version

Oddly, looking up the One and the Evo I could find just about any picture I wanted. They are now giving colour temperature for them also, which they didn't for the H types for a while.
I know the early Evo reduced red right down, so you would add it back as you wanted it. However the Evo now has more red than the One. It's not very often I shake my head and walk away..

 

[Cerathule]

 

[chilliwilli]

Thx mates i found them
From user zynki and this thread

 

[Armate Otro]

Hello everyone! I'm a new member of icmag and since I registered, this thread caught my attention.

For more than 10 years I grew under HPS 400W and this year was my first experience growing with a led panel. And for having been the first harvest with LED, I am really satisfied.
Now, I remember reading in one of the 27 pages of the thread a user who claimed to be able to distinguish between trichomes grown under HPS and those grown under LED lights. So I bring perhaps, an interesting comparison with photographic evidence to contribute to the thread and the debate.

The comparison is between:
400W HPS vs Led panel Mars Sunflash 220W

520 leds Epistar SMD5730-LM80
Driver: Mean well (IP67)
PPFD at 30cm: 935 umol/m
PPF/W: 2.5 umol/J
Cultivated in parallel under the same conditions of temp and RH. Same clones, different lights.
4 photos. Group A and group B.
Can anyone really tell which group was grown under hps and which under led?
I read your answers! Greetings to all!

A group

B group

 

[Cerathule]

A - Mars
B - HPS

 

[xet]

I was under impression that cannabis completely ignores green light

It is a big misunderstanding.

Green light is essential. You can grow with blurples but add green and your blurple becomes a white light. The blurples will be outperformed by the addition of green light.

Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green

Abstract. The literature and our present examinations indicate that the intra-leaf light absorption profile is in most cases steeper than the photosynthetic cap

academic.oup.com

Because green light can penetrate further into the leaf than red or blue light, in strong white light, any additional green light absorbed by the lower chloroplasts would increase leaf photosynthesis to a greater extent than would additional red or blue light.