LED and BUD QUALITY

[Ca++]

Why not follow the link prawn supplied? It really is that easy if you want to convince yourself of over 10% efficient leds. Theyre already at over 50% at high currents and they are right there on the very same page... Its literally just a click away...

Not sure which one gla used, i imagine its of a higher bin. But last time you pulled this uv stat out i remember it was quite an old source and a lot further down towards 300 nm, its been quite some time since. Check around 385-405, those are the most efficient diodes in the uv range.

I didn't see the link.
I'm quite shocked tbh. Papers from last year, redundant already. Truly a 1.9w device, claiming 1.05w of output, at 365nm.
It's been easy enough at 395 for a while, but getting lower has always been the issue. There 330nm is that 7-8% I expected, but they are pushing the envelope now, and getting some output in an area some think useful.

I'm not a UV supporter as you know, but still, 405 isn't UV. 395 soon looses energy and becomes visible. 385nm though.. that is UV. No argument.

It was Nichia suggested some time ago, but they had nothing. Lets hope they keep going, and get some UVB and UVC made. We can't keep using Hg lamps. There removal from the market, even for special purposes, has been proposed. For domestic lighting in the EU, they are gone.

 

[Ca++]

ammonium. plant cant regulate ammonium uptake they are forced to swallow it.
View attachment 18967914

Yes, tissue analysis would show excess ammonium. So there would be no need to sample the blocks to find this.

When would you need to sample the blocks, to show antagonism. That was my question, as you say it's necessary

Edit: I have not read up on the subject. Is there in fact, a nutrient that just blocks the door where another tries to get in. Without any sort of clue in the tissue, regarding what that might be.
The K pathway is pretty big, and we did see something else using it. I can't think of anything that can block K, without being taken. It is just so big. IIRC, the biggest.

 

[weedemart]

Nitrogen: 1-5%
Phosphorus: 0.2-0.8%
Potassium: 1-3%
Magnesium: 0.1-0.5%
Calcium:0.5-2%

As you can see, Nitrogen is the most abundant element in cannabis. If I translate those concentration to elemental value in term of ratio at 100ppm N that was you get:

100n-16p-60k-12mg-40ca , if we adjust to the previous N concentration of the 3-1-2 ratio at 150ppm it go
150n-24p-90k-18mg-60ca ... must be a coincidence. The broscience were smarter than you think.

 

[weedemart]

Yes, tissue analysis would show excess ammonium. So there would be no need to sample the blocks to find this.

When would you need to sample the blocks, to show antagonism. That was my question, as you say it's necessary

Nope as soon as you put ammonium in your feed it will compete with every cation and it will reduce their uptake and by definition , its an antagonism.Plant are forced to uptake ammonium. If you take tissue analysis it might show up or might not. depend of the intensity of the antangonism. More ammonium more problems. More than 10ppm ammonium in your feed and everything will suffer.

I think you know the answer. after you see sign of deficiency. I said crooked8 should have take water sample first but yeah in his case he did right. tissue analysis. then confirmation with water sample but you would have to do both at same time anyway.

I dont do this often because honestly deficiency never occur in my garden. I monitor ph and ec closely thats it.

 

[CannaT]

Nitrogen: 1-5%
Phosphorus: 0.2-0.8%
Potassium: 1-3%
Magnesium: 0.1-0.5%
Calcium:0.5-2%

As you can see, Nitrogen is the most abundant element in cannabis. If I translate those concentration to elemental value in term of ratio at 100ppm N that was you get:

100n-16p-60k-12mg-40ca , if we adjust to the previous N concentration of the 3-1-2 ratio at 150ppm it go
150n-24p-90k-18mg-60ca ... must be a coincidence. The broscience were smarter than you think.

Just a hand wave to the large grow ops that prefer hiring PhD.You could do this with chat GPT for nothing! XD
View attachment 18967924 View attachment 18967925 View attachment 18967926

I said that before N is the most importent P low,only high with seeded crops.
We dont want fruits of cannabis we only grow for flowers...

 

[CannaT]

And about led quality after few years of growing various setups...from home boxes to big rooms they can be good but never great.
No mather how they look they are always pale or lack something compared to hid/led or pure hid buds.
You can compensate with leds,you can grow good buds but never great.

There is no eficiency with leds its another myth you need dehumidifiers or heater so this "30% watt less" when you change to leds,led producers can put in their ass.

Or you can use fungicides and flower plants in 70-60% humidity.

For at least another 10 years im done with Leds.
Cmh/hps for the win.

 

[weedemart]

No dude led are way more efficient now than hps/cmh. you have higher par per watts so you can achieve the same output with less watts. it reduce your energy bill for lighting and for climate control. Each kw/hr create over 3k btu/hr of heat. the climate bills for a medium-large grow ops is pretty expensive if you want the perfect environnement.

You can battle this with cooltubed hps tho.

 

[CannaT]

No dude led are way more efficient now than hps/cmh. you have higher par per watts so you can achieve the same output with less watts. it reduce your energy bill for lighting and for climate control. Each kw/hr create over 3k btu/hr of heat. the climate bills for a medium-large grow ops is pretty expensive if you want the perfect environnement.

You can battle this with cooltubed hps tho.

What about humidity in big rooms with tousent litters of water + plants with their tranpirations.
I rather cool the room than suck the humidity out.

Led is only efficient in led producers and sellers mouth.
Im shure that full spectrum boards are missing spectrum also...

This is funny Monsanto used leds for decades in experiments they are first company to invest and produce leds...still they stop it...cuz they see it bullshit for plant grow.

 

[weedemart]

What about humidity in big rooms with tousent litters of water + plants with their tranpirations.
I rather cool the room than suck the humidity out.

Thats the hvac part.

if you have 10kw of led , and 10kw of hps, the heat output is the same.

The difference is... 10kw of led produce 30% more photon than hps.

1 kw hps de produce 2100umols/s @ 1.8umols efficiency
1 kw led can produce 2800 umols/s depending on the panel.
Which kw of light you want? Your cooling will be the same.

 

[CannaT]

Thats the hvac part.

if you have 10kw of led , and 10kw of hps, the heat output is the same.

The difference is... 10kw of led produce 30% more photon than hps.

1 kw hps de produce 2100umols/s @ 2.1 umols efficiency
1 kw led can produce 2800 umols/s depending on the panel.
Which kw of light you want?

Who cares about insuficient spetrum where plants dont know to behave naturaly.
Second I talk about electric bills and costs and im searching for that less electricity.

Leds sucks prove me wrong...

 

[Brother Nature]

Nitrogen: 1-5%
Phosphorus: 0.2-0.8%
Potassium: 1-3%
Magnesium: 0.1-0.5%
Calcium:0.5-2%

As you can see, Nitrogen is the most abundant element in cannabis. If I translate those concentration to elemental value in term of ratio at 100ppm N that was you get:

100n-16p-60k-12mg-40ca , if we adjust to the previous N concentration of the 3-1-2 ratio at 150ppm it go
150n-24p-90k-18mg-60ca ... must be a coincidence. The broscience were smarter than you think.

Just a hand wave to the large grow ops that prefer hiring PhD.You could do this with chat GPT for nothing! XD
View attachment 18967924 View attachment 18967925 View attachment 18967926

Be careful trusting AI mate. It simply combs the internet for information related to what you input, it can't verify or cite it's information, it may very well be using information pulled from bro-science forums like riu, weedfarmer, ICmag, etc... It's a cool function, but in now way should it be trusted for verifiable scientific information.

 

[Brother Nature]

Thats the hvac part.

if you have 10kw of led , and 10kw of hps, the heat output is the same.

The difference is... 10kw of led produce 30% more photon than hps.

1 kw hps de produce 2100umols/s @ 2.1 umols efficiency
1 kw led can produce 2800 umols/s depending on the panel.
Which kw of light you want? Your cooling will be the same.

There's very little point arguing with this dude, he's an LED troll, can't grow a half decent plant using them (or any other method really) so blames the equipment.

 

[weedemart]

Be careful trusting AI mate. It simply combs the internet for information related to what you input, it can't verify or cite it's information, it may very well be using information pulled from bro-science forums like riu, weedfarmer, ICmag, etc... It's a cool function, but in now way should it be trusted for verifiable scientific information.

You can search other source you will find similar information. I had a really good source but I cant find it.

 

[JKD]

Online measurement of individual elements, to add them individually, is a machine we are not going to see. Solution measurement accuracy is too poor.

I think we might, as inline spectrometers in particular are already used in other industries. Relevant to this industry there are already inline meters (in other industries) reading NH4, NO3, NO2, P, K, Fe, Si, & Na, among other parameters. The problem isn’t the ability to do this accurately, it’s the prohibitive expense of the spectrometer. I posted a recent feasibility study a couple of pages back where they show it’s now possible to be done cheaply.

 

[weedemart]

Not hard to argue that led beat hps in term of performance.

PPF stand for photon photosynthic flux. This is the volume of photosynthetic photon per second that a light can emit.

the best bulb on the market show a PPF 2100 umol/s

the best led on the market show a PPF of 2788 umol/s ( probly inflated with far red)
model is gml tarantula tent ultimate

PPE stand for photosynthetic photon efficiency. This is the effiency of a system;panel considering the balast.It take in account the lost of effiency throught component.

PPE = PPF/watts at wall

So in the case of hps you have a bulb that emit 2100umols/s at 1150w? I think 2100/1150 = 1.82 umol/s/w

in the case of led you have a panel that emit 2788umol/s at 1025w. 2788/1025 = 2.72 umol/s/w

so if you compare the best bulb with the best led system you have 50% increase in efficiency , you save 125w, and your photon output increase by 30%.

now you see led is more efficient look the spectrum:

led cover blue wavelenght way better than hps and red wavelenght way better than mh.



The only pro of bulb is their price. At large scale it add quickly.

 

[Crooked8]

Not hard to argue that led beat hps in term of performance.

PPF stand for photosynthic flux. This is the volume of photosynthetic photon per second that a light can emit.

the best bulb on the market show a PPF 2100 umol/s

the best led on the market show a PPF of 3150 umol/s( probly inflated with far red)

PPE stand for photosynthetic photon efficiency. This is the effiency of a system;panel considering the balast.It take in account the lost of effiency throught component.

PPE = PPF/watts at wall

So in the case of hps you have a bulb that emit 2100umols/s at 1150w? I think 2100/1150 = 1.82 umol/s/w

in the case of led you have a panel that emit 3150umol/s at 1150w. 3150/1150 = 2.74 umol/s/w

so if you compare the best bulb with the best led system you have 50% increase in efficiency.

now you see led is more efficient look the spectrum:
View attachment 18968004 View attachment 18968006

led cover blue wavelenght way better than hps and red wavelenght way better than mh.



The only pro of bulb is their price. At large scale it add quickly.

Weve all gone through this with CannaT, he just cant find success with LED and continues to bash them. You will not win this argument with him despite knowing full well that LED is superior. Weve all exhausted ourselves trying to do so. Save yourself the effort lol. He will not open his eyes as he said. Going back to HPS was like removing a condom for him. Holy fuckin shit . Ive posted my flower from LED and im accused of having a “nasa budget” and having too high of a quality of equipment for the average joe. Yet many tents have more expensive lights than my facility. This is where mass balance comes in, and if CannaT understood it, he would have success with any light. He would have more crop per drop with led and at a lower imput cost for higher quality and yield. But this point is lost on him. There are many obtuse folks on here lately. Youre one of them but in a different way haha. @CannaT you keep mentioning pale plants and issues with LED. Why do I not suffer these issues? Why is our product better than ever? Why are we discussing this again haha? And if you start talking about sulfur compounds again im gonna actually jump out a window i swear

 

[Brother Nature]

Here's my trashy pale Wedding Cake cross and some Sour Diesels, under my 3-4 year old LEDs. No Nasa budget, just a tent, some cheapo fertilizer, cheap hardware store soil, and tap water. I struggled a bit when moving to soil with these lights, but that wasn't due to the lights, was like a lot of the other guys said and I needed to up my inputs to cope with the higher intensity from the led's. The humidity and watering differences were what took the most getting used to in my small setup. I do tend to need a CMH in winter to up the room heat, but that's likely more location related than anything else.

 

[Crooked8]

Here's my trashy pale Wedding Cake cross and some Sour Diesels, under my 3-4 year old LEDs. No Nasa budget, just a tent, some cheapo fertilizer, cheap hardware store soil, and tap water. I struggled a bit when moving to soil with these lights, but that wasn't due to the lights, was like a lot of the other guys said and I needed to up my inputs to cope with the higher intensity from the led's. The humidity and watering differences were what took the most getting used to in my small setup. I do tend to need a CMH in winter to up the room heat, but that's likely more location related than anything else.

Happy, beautiful looking product in a later flowering stage under affordable led you say? what say you @CannaT ? How is this possible?!

 

[weedemart]

try this light and never look back https://grandmasterleds.ca/products/tarantula-greenhouse-1

dont forget your glasses

 

[Crooked8]

try this light and never look back https://grandmasterleds.ca/products/tarantula-greenhouse-1

dont forget your glasses

3rd party would be nice, that efficiency rating is insane. Hard time believing that, and this spectrum chart…what?