LED and BUD QUALITY

[CharlesU Farley]

Wow, were you heating Tomato soup with that rig?

1 kW MH in a 2X5 closet X almost 25 years, regardless of the max ventilation, things tend to heat up a bit and get rusty. Thought I hit the big time when I plugged in my first Sunmaster warm deluxe for a little bit of that red spectrum.

 

[dogzter]

I average somewhere from 3 to 5 pounds off 2000 watts depending on the cut not sure I see that under leds?

 

[Prawn Connery]

The question was aimed at you of course as you obviously know a lot about LED and biology. As you can see in the picture I have posted it was not cold at all for the whole grow so it is a nutrient lock-out you say who caused the purpling of the top leaves ?
It happened on the last weeks of the grow when I was giving only water to the plants.

If you flushed "for weeks" then I'd say yes a possible phosphorous deficiency. Did it get much colder overnight than 25C? I don't know what media you are in, but I don't really flush in coco. I'll feed water the last few days but my plants are generally green up to harvest.

 

[Prawn Connery]

I average somewhere from 3 to 5 pounds off 2000 watts depending on the cut not sure I see that under leds?

A half-decent grower should be getting at least 1.5gpw from LED. I'm getting over 2lb from 600W in a 4x4.

 

[Prawn Connery]

While plants under led recive more human visible light they dont have enough IR...so leafs go in darker colour to catch more IR and to get higher temp cuz they need it.

I wouldn't say the leaves go darker under LED. Bugbee did a study showing LED leaf temps were only 2C lower than HPS, 1C lower than greenhouse and 2C higher than sunlight:

Analysis of Environmental Effects on Leaf Temperature under Sunlight, High Pressure Sodium and Light Emitting Diodes

The use of LED technology is commonly assumed to result in significantly cooler leaf temperatures than high pressure sodium technology. To evaluate the magnitude of this effect, we measured radiation incident to and absorbed by a leaf under four radiation sources: clear sky sunlight in the...

journals.plos.org

 

[greyfader]

I average somewhere from 3 to 5 pounds off 2000 watts depending on the cut not sure I see that under leds?

i just got 4.5 lbs from 2000 watts of homemade walmart leds.

but, why are people on this thread about LEDS and BUD QUALITY still comparing hid lighting to led lighting? there is a thread dedicated to that. why must it be done here contrary to the topic of the thread?

i know most of you mean well but this is not the place for that.

why can't the participants on this thread focus on improving the use of leds to improve the quality of their product?

either you can't resist the temptation to put down leds or you don't respect the thread topic and intent.

there are people here who really want to learn, why can't the rest of you simply let them do it?

editing to say that i understand comparing the different spectrums and the other factors involved with growth between the light sources but i don't understand those that are simply saying "hps for the win" or "leds are shit". this is not the place to express personal biases about which one is superior. there is already another thread for that. we are trying to improve the use of leds here, not argue about which lighting choice is best, this should be a simple concept to understand.

 

[kro-magnon]

If you flushed "for weeks" then I'd say yes a possible phosphorous deficiency. Did it get much colder overnight than 25C? I don't know what media you are in, but I don't really flush in coco. I'll feed water the last few days but my plants are generally green up to harvest.

I grow in soil found in growshop, usually some light mix where I add some bat guano. I don't flush neither I just give straight water for the last 10/15 days and I use some organic nutes, what was before the GHE organic line. I turn the light on during night time so when it's off it's daytime temps and it was around 22/25°c for the whole grow.
I should give more P or K to avoid this next time?

 

[dogzter]

i just got 4.5 lbs from 2000 watts of homemade walmart leds.

but, why are people on this thread about LEDS and BUD QUALITY still comparing hid lighting to led lighting? there is a thread dedicated to that. why must it be done here contrary to the topic of the thread?

i know most of you mean well but this is not the place for that.

why can't the participants on this thread focus on improving the use of leds to improve the quality of their product?

either you can't resist the temptation to put down leds or you don't respect the thread topic and intent.

there are people here who really want to learn, why can't the rest of you simply let them do it?

editing to say that i understand comparing the different spectrums and the other factors involved with growth between the light sources but i don't understand those that are simply saying "hps for the win" or "leds are shit". this is not the place to express personal biases about which one is superior. there is already another thread for that. we are trying to improve the use of leds here, not argue about which lighting choice is best, this should be a simple concept to understand.

What are you comparing the quality to then?

 

[CannaT]

I wouldn't say the leaves go darker under LED. Bugbee did a study showing LED leaf temps were only 2C lower than HPS, 1C lower than greenhouse and 2C higher than sunlight:

Analysis of Environmental Effects on Leaf Temperature under Sunlight, High Pressure Sodium and Light Emitting Diodes

The use of LED technology is commonly assumed to result in significantly cooler leaf temperatures than high pressure sodium technology. To evaluate the magnitude of this effect, we measured radiation incident to and absorbed by a leaf under four radiation sources: clear sky sunlight in the...

journals.plos.org

Did you read that study ?
that looks to me like a classic use of science to back up your claims.

 

[Crooked8]

@Crooked8 so when i said spectrum avoidance i was wrong?



Get back up bugbees ass bro

with love and respect...

What the heck do you mean by spectrum avoidance? Please define that for us all here.

And you dont mean to be respectful at all by telling me to go back up bugbees ass. Thats just rude and is in perfect line with your lame excuses for poor results with led. Ill stay all over Bugbees courses and continue to crank out top shelf at a fraction of your cost under hps. Ill laugh all the way to the bank. If i keep doing better and better the deeper I go in that ass best believe ill become a legendary spelunking master!

You listed several reasons that would all result in poor health, yet we’re seeing higher yields, cannabinoids and overall health than ever. We still run strains that dont turn purple at all under led.

 

[Crooked8]

spectrum avoidance
nutrient malabsorption
roots/plant too cold
too much calmag

Take your pick...

Please explain why any of these make sense…

Spectrum avoidance just makes no sense to me. You mean its “avoiding” the blue light by creating anthocyanin? How are we getting bigger yields with higher cannabinoids if this is a negative thing then? Not to mention the studies showing more blue in the mix showing more favorable morphology. When blue light is reduced or eliminated foxtailing increases. Bluer light = tighter and rounder morphology. There is a limit though, too much blue will reduce yield and cannabinoid content. It has to be enough but not too much. HPS is more red which is why photobleaching and foxtails are more common under them.

Nutrient malabsorption? Anyone dialed in with leds with tissue testing can show you this is just purely false.

Roots/plants too cold…..really? The led is to blame for this, not your environmental control?

Too much cal mag…..please show us a link to cal mag increasing anthocyanin production under leds specifically. Plenty of folks out there running hids cranking cal mag w no difference in coloration.

Id love to know where you came up with these, personal grow problems i assume? Just bitter about the results it seems.

Please explain any single one of these

“Take your pick”

 

[greyfader]

What are you comparing the quality to then?

I'm not comparing the quality between light sources on this thread. As the thread title and topic state, I'm trying to improve the quality i get with leds. again, you too sound like a nice guy and i'm not trying to pick on you. and you sound like an intelligent person so surely you can understand the difference.

we've had several highly disruptive troll attacks on this thread. and each time we had new people immediately jump onto the thread without understanding the title or intent or reading any of the thread and start talking about their personal choices for plant lighting.

this is not that thread. here is a link to that thread;

CMH vs LED vs HPS

I wanted to get input on the results you guys are getting with these in the finished product. I've had great results in the past with HPS supplemented with additional UVB from a zoologist mega ray bulb. I'm wondering if the CMH provides enough UVB on it's own if used in bloom?

www.icmag.com

this thread does pit the various light choices against each other. it's rather like a MMA fight. very few rules.

if you can commit to discussing improving the quality of led-grown plants i want to hear everything you say.

 

[Crooked8]

I average somewhere from 3 to 5 pounds off 2000 watts depending on the cut not sure I see that under leds?

We’re getting nearly 3lbs per 720w light. And we’re still dialing many things in. Were getting about 55g per sq ft. The post i referenced a few pages back from tyler incognita shows their facility thats hitting over 100g per sq ft. Could never be done with hps, ever.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Wow, new to this thread but after a few pages it reminds me of some of the silly discussions I had with Vic High back in the day. Whatever happened to that old fart?

Webe over thinking this stuff after all these years.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

but, why are people on this thread about LEDS and BUD QUALITY still comparing hid lighting to led lighting? there is a thread dedicated to that. why must it be done here contrary to the topic of the thread?

.

where's a mod when u need one...

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

LED's and bud quality

Anecdotal Evidence - What Value Does It Have?

Anecdotal evidence is everywhere these days. How reliable is it? Should you follow the advice in the garden? Why do we believe anecdotal evidence?

www.gardenmyths.com

 

[dogzter]

I'm not comparing the quality between light sources on this thread. As the thread title and topic state, I'm trying to improve the quality i get with leds. again, you too sound like a nice guy and i'm not trying to pick on you. and you sound like an intelligent person so surely you can understand the difference.

we've had several highly disruptive troll attacks on this thread. and each time we had new people immediately jump onto the thread without understanding the title or intent or reading any of the thread and start talking about their personal choices for plant lighting.

this is not that thread. here is a link to that thread;

CMH vs LED vs HPS

I wanted to get input on the results you guys are getting with these in the finished product. I've had great results in the past with HPS supplemented with additional UVB from a zoologist mega ray bulb. I'm wondering if the CMH provides enough UVB on it's own if used in bloom?

www.icmag.com

this thread does pit the various light choices against each other. it's rather like a MMA fight. very few rules.

if you can commit to discussing improving the quality of led-grown plants i want to hear everything you say.

"Recently I grew some plants under Electric Sky V3, HLG 350R, and HPS . The HPS buds are great as usual. The Electric Sky buds are nice and aromatic, close to the HPS. And the HLG buds
are less aromatic and less taste but still pretty decent. It seems like the extra far red spectrum of the electric sky really did help the quality. Have you guys noticed similar results??"
This is the first post I this thread.
I see it isn't you so its not your thread.

Perhaps you should go and chastise them for saying what they said when starting this thread.
Seems like you're the one being a dick.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Wow, new to this thread but after a few pages it reminds me of some of the silly discussions I had with Vic High back in the day. Whatever happened to that old fart?

View attachment 18948559

Webe over thinking this stuff after all these years.

I learned more from Vic High about breeding cannabis than any other single source on the Internet, including adpc... in the mid to late '90s, without a doubt. He died about 4 or 5 years ago, OT1 a couple of years later. Thread drift is horrible on this thread, and we got an enforcer it looks like, so I won't further comment. <vbseg>

 

[greyfader]

"Recently I grew some plants under Electric Sky V3, HLG 350R, and HPS . The HPS buds are great as usual. The Electric Sky buds are nice and aromatic, close to the HPS. And the HLG buds
are less aromatic and less taste but still pretty decent. It seems like the extra far red spectrum of the electric sky really did help the quality. Have you guys noticed similar results??"
This is the first post I this thread.
I see it isn't you so its not your thread.

Perhaps you should go and chastise them for saying what they said when starting this thread.
Seems like you're the one being a dick.

no, it's not my thread but i do respect the op's intent. read his paragraph again and you might understand that he was talking about the differences in spectrum, not bashing one or the other. he's trying to understand the differences between the spectral qualities of the sources in order to understand his results better.

this is a different thing than saying hps or leds are better. we are trying to discern the differences between the qualities of the light sources to improve the quality of led-grown plants. there are so many led lights to choose from that knowing this could help us make better informed decisions about which led lights to buy.

in my own case, i grew with hps for many years and i got bigger flowers but not better flowers. with led i got better flowers as in potency and terpene production but smaller flowers overall. so perhaps an appropriate approach would be to say "what part of each light spectrum caused these differences in expression?"

analyzing the differences in an objective fashion is not bashing one or the other. given the context of this thread about improving the flowers of led plants it is about finding out what in hps caused the larger flowers that some leds are missing and how to supply that to enhance the production of your led-grown flowers. not to revert to hps just because you can't figure it out.

there was no bias implied in the op's statement.

i'm not trying to be a dick, are you trying to be a troll?

can you contribute to the discussion about leds and bud quality? or do you just want to bash leds?

there is a difference and i know you are smart enough to see it. i apologize if i hurt your feelings, it was not my intent.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

I have 3 sources of quality light and I take advantage of them all - sun, LED, and a greenhouse. That's the benefit of growing a few rather than a 100. PITA to move, but that's OK. C99 goodies are still under the ViparSpectra and growng like weeds, inch or so a day.

Pure indicas taking a sun bath in the full sun in the greenhouse yesterday. I have a huge south facing wall vent I can drop given clear skies and mild temps here in Texas.

You guys that are growing in greenshouses need to grow in root pruning systems. Now that is something that has merit. It's all about the roots! The large black knobby pot is a bottomless RootBuilder container that is supporting a designer mango (Zill's M-4) and volunteer maters which pop up everywhere.

Less is more,
Uncle Ben