LED and BUD QUALITY

[Prawn Connery]

Why not standard square alu tube? @Prawn Connery ?

With your strips it would be easy to make a 500w per meter light if you have aircooling.

I have considered standard square tube, but with a 120-degree beam angle on a 90-degree bend, the convergence angle is only 30 degrees, which means the light from each strip won't start to overlap until it is some way away from the vertical fixture, and even then there won't be much overlap, leaving noticeably darker spots at each of the 90-degree corners.

A hexagon gives a 60-degree convergence angle, which is not only easy to work with, it will give a much nicer "arc" of light around 360-degrees, which is what I'm aiming for. I want close to circular light emission.

 

[Prawn Connery]

you could pop rivet flat strips of metal to the round surface. fabricating a hex shape from metal is going to be expensive.

I could, but it gets messy and of course the idea behind mounting flat strips to a hexagonal "tube" – which has six flat sides – is that the tube itself becomes the cool tube with air running through it.

As I said, I have it all worked out in my mind, I just need to start doing it!

 

[weedemart]

Its a bit weird that you come into a thread asking for advice regarding how much this method will yield; but then a few posts later decide that it will yield 2.6 kilos without having even tried yet. As if youve already have those 2.6kg.

Youd actually need to yield 2.6 before claiming it.

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Omega Gardens is what these were called 20-odd years ago when I first saw them. They were expensive, and looked impressive.

But there were a number of issues with them. The biggest one was that it was almost impossible to get inside to work on the plants – there just wasn't any easy access. So if your plants started growing into the light, you couldn't get in there to move them. There wasn't any room in any case because . . .

. . . . as the canopy grows, so it diminishes! The inside area of a cylinder is Pi x radius squared x the length of a cylinder. As the plants grow, that radius gets smaller and smaller. What starts as a 2m canopy radius may end as a 1m radius. When that happens, you have just lost 4x your top canopy area! It is now exactly 1/4 of what you started with.

The first image shows a rotary garden on a smaller scale that at least has easier access to the plants. But regardless of the system, as the plants grow, they start to crowd each other for space and the canopy gets denser and denser . . . you need really good airflow in there to prevent mould and other issues.

And WTF do you do when the plants hit the lights and you can't raise them?!?!?

The more complicated something is, the more things can wrong with it. But you have to expect that.


You haven't grown with these systems before – that much is clear. I'm not sure why you raise the subject if you have no experience with them. How can you tell us they are better when you've never tried them?

I'm starting to think you have nowhere near the kind of experience that you claim. Or that some of us have already have.

But I digress . . . How do you calculate your figures for a diminishing radius canopy? If you start off with 6.5m2 and end up with 1.625m2 (1/4 of the final canopy area, as explained above), now you only have 650g – not 2.6kg.

But who knows? The REAL trouble with these cylinder grows is that you need a lot of PRACTICE before you can get any decent yields out of them because you must, must, MUST know what your plant finishing height will be before you even start because there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR.

How many trial grows do you need to do with each new strain just to be sure you are not going to burn the fuck out of your crop by the time you finish?

That's a lot of time and effort. Which is a lot of labour and money.


Is it easier to replace a bulb than a LED? Is HPS really half the price of LED? Let's think about this . . .

What is the L70 of an LED? 50,000 hours. That's about 12 years of 12/12 cycles and the LED is still pumping out 70% of its intensity.

HPS bulbs lose about 20% of their output in the first year, which means most growers replace them every year – although some HPS growers replace them every 3-6 months or even every grow!

Cost effective? Perhaps if you're getting 20% more yield. But that's a lot of HPS bulbs. It's a good thing they are cheaper now, because they used to cost $100 or so for a 600W bulb! A CMH bulb costs even more.

And what about the labour cost of changing bulbs on a regular basis in a large warehouse? You need to factor that in,

Now there is the cost of climate control. In a warm climate, or during summer, or in a closed system, or in a large warehouse, you are going to see the effects of HPS putting out 1/3 more heat than equivalent LED. Air-conditioning and climate control cost money – money you haven't factored in.

What about capital costs? Yes, LEDs will be more expensive than HPS . . . unless you are buying a floor full of Omega Gardens! How much are those?

This one is USD$13,500!!!! https://glandorehydro.com/product/rotary-grow-system-omega-garden

^ And BTW, it uses LED

And after all that, it still has NO advantages – and plenty of disadvantages – over a typical, floor-based vertical grow.

Floor-based vertical grows don't run out of head room. You can use any type of growing media – saying you can't use rockwool/DWC/aeroponics is just bullshit. Any system you can think of, I can provide you with a solution for growing vertically.

13,5k USD for 15 kilos output per years on 2sq meter. Of course I'm wrong now figure your setup and the cost , see. Who have the best roi at large scale

 

[weedemart]

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[Rocket Soul]

I have considered standard square tube, but with a 120-degree beam angle on a 90-degree bend, the convergence angle is only 30 degrees, which means the light from each strip won't start to overlap until it is some way away from the vertical fixture, and even then there won't be much overlap, leaving noticeably darker spots at each of the 90-degree corners.

A hexagon gives a 60-degree convergence angle, which is not only easy to work with, it will give a much nicer "arc" of light around 360-degrees, which is what I'm aiming for. I want close to circular light emission.

4 plants around, one in each of the facing angles? I just dont think that youll find that hexagonal tube anywhere soon...

 

[Rocket Soul]

13,5k USD for 15 kilos output per years on 2sq meter. Of course I'm wrong now figure your setup and the cost , see. Who have the best roi at large scale

Of course that would be a great deal. Problem is that you havent shown how youll end up with 15ks in a year. Youre counting yield that youve actually not had yet.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Update day 11, nothing much changed but they did a nice progress.

ec=0.3
ph=5.3
mole/day=20-25

ph is a bit off at rootzone(6.7) but are they are doing fine. I had a start of algae on one cube so I decided to cover them before it spread. Unfortunately I dont have floraflex cap for this size of cube. They are already well rooted and roots are healthy so I plan to innoculate them with aact this week gonna post an update with more detail. View attachment 18945660 View attachment 18945661

Hey @weedemart, I checked in on your grow and I have a few questions.

The first question is, what light are you using?

The second question is, why do you say your pH is "a bit off" because it is higher than the reservoir pH? Did you not know that rockwool is alkaline? And if you did, why are you even measuring it?

The next question is, does you AACT contain mycorrhizae?

And finally, why are your plants so slow and yellow? To show what I mean, I pulled up some photos from a seedling grow I did last winter.

Here are you seedlings at Day 5 in rockwool DWC

And here are my seedlings in hand-watered coco at Day 2. (I don't auto-feed until I start flowering, and when that happens growth really takes off.)

Here are yours at Day 11

And here are mine at Day 12

Here are yours at Day 14

And here are mine at Day 17

And three days later at Day 20

This is a pretty standard grow for me. The strain is Rainbow Road which is a 60/40 sativa/indica, similar to your C99 cross. I don't measure the air temps or the humidity, I just grow to the conditions.

Your plants have a similar number of nodes to mine, and yet they are much more under-developed.

You did invite us all to watch your grow and be amazed, and I am trying to do the right thing by not embarrassing you in your own grow journal, but why would you set yourself up like this?

 

[Prawn Connery]

13,5k USD for 15 kilos output per years on 2sq meter. Of course I'm wrong now figure your setup and the cost , see. Who have the best roi at large scale

Actually, I lied.

There are no LEDs in that Rotary Garden. There are 4x 39W fluorescent tubes. You are going to pull 15kg a year from 156W of fluoro. Let's assume the maximum six grows a year. You are going to get 2.5kg from 156W. That's 16 grams per watt.

You are the second-greatest grower in the history of horticulture.

 

[phunkeeboodah]

my plants are slow, dark green and shiny at the current average rh of 20%

meh, they'll speed up come spring

 

[Prawn Connery]

4 plants around, one in each of the facing angles? I just dont think that youll find that hexagonal tube anywhere soon...

Google "hexagonal tube" I can get pretty much any extrusion I want from China, but I'm trying to think of a way to produce something in Australia. I mean, anything can be done for the right volume and price.

From my years of vertical growing, I found that 6 plants was pretty much the idea number for a circular grow. I started with 4 and went as high as 9 at one point, but 6 was nearly always the best.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Actually, I lied.

There are no LEDs in that Rotary Garden. There are 4x 39W fluorescent tubes. You are going to pull 15kg a year from 156W of fluoro. Let's assume the maximum six grows a year. You are going to get 2.5kg from 156W. That's 16 grams per watt.

You are the second-greatest grower in the history of horticulture.

Nr 1 must be me, im getting an ounce a watt. Now I only have to figure out how to sell the imaginary weed IRL

 

[Prawn Connery]

Nr 1 must be me, im getting an ounce a watt. Now I only have to figure out how to sell the imaginary weed IRL

Real growers don't count wet weight mate. Or roots. Or stems. Or leaves. Or the soil it grows in.

Go on, admit it. You put the whole 20-litre plant pot on the scales, didn't you?

 

[weedemart]

Hey @weedemart, I checked in on your grow and I have a few questions.

The first question is, what light are you using?

The second question is, why do you say your pH is "a bit off" because it is higher than the reservoir pH? Did you not know that rockwool is alkaline? And if you did, why are you even measuring it?

The next question is, does you AACT contain mycorrhizae?

And finally, why are your plants so slow and yellow? To show what I mean, I pulled up some photos from a seedling grow I did last winter.

Here are you seedlings at Day 5 in rockwool DWC
View attachment 18947749

And here are my seedlings in hand-watered coco at Day 2. (I don't auto-feed until I start flowering, and when that happens growth really takes off.)
View attachment 18947751

Here are yours at Day 11
View attachment 18947752

And here are mine at Day 12
View attachment 18947753

Here are yours at Day 14
View attachment 18947755

And here are mine at Day 17
View attachment 18947754

And three days later at Day 20
View attachment 18947770

This is a pretty standard grow for me. The strain is Rainbow Road which is a 60/40 sativa/indica, similar to your C99 cross. I don't measure the air temps or the humidity, I just grow to the conditions.

Your plants have a similar number of nodes to mine, and yet they are much more under-developed.

You did invite us all to watch your grow and be amazed, and I am trying to do the right thing by not embarrassing you in your own grow journal, but why would you set yourself up like this?

1. 2x shitty mars hydro ts 1000 dimmed @ 50% each 36inch above apex.

2.You know nothing about my irrigation and once again you go in your stories. I measure ph at rootzone with a seringes. I hand water. Theres no point to make automation in that tent for now.

3. yes

4.Keep trying. My c99 is not a cross , its pure line inbreed for many generation and yes ,maybe it doesnt have the vigor it had in the past but still fire you wont find near you.

5. because of the lighting of course.

6. btw my plants looks healthier than yours.

 

[Crooked8]

I just cant wait to see 288 plants stuffed in that cylinder. Its gonna be a revolution……

 

[growsjoe1]

You know weedemart, your constant combativeness concerning your methods adds nothing to this thread.

Many luker this thread for the valuable info gathered by many experienced growers, including me.

Contribute in a meaningful way to this thread, or just go away.

 

[CannaT]

No the revolution is 1k$ led fixture in a basement,in dirt and soil with some bigbuds and voodoo juice

You're saying nonsense and all your groupies likes..its funny. I said 2000w in 6.5m2 of culture with 400gr/m2 for 2.6kg, that's 1.3gram per watt

You're not the smartest, huh?

Stop focusing on me otherwise I'll have to open my onlyfans page.

Everybody know we have huge ego.No one gonna win this war.

Why in this thread you dont talk about your lights in your setup ?

 

[weedemart]

happy . I can go above 1000umols/s if I want.

@CannaT c99

@growsjoe1

always defend your beliefs brother,especially the facts.

 

[CannaT]

happy View attachment 18947933

Nice
What strain/s you grow ?

 

[phunkeeboodah]

btw my plants looks healthier than yours.
View attachment 18947908

two sunblaster cfl bulbs in a bedroom corner in early march and some pro mix have entered the chat...

 

[Rocket Soul]

This is our latest. Havent found pics of it properly wired up.
8 GLA strips over a 320 driver.