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LED and BUD QUALITY

Ca++

Well-known member
Since it is immobile, Bugbee equates it to logs floating down a river vs it being IN a river like a mobile nutrient. Take that for what its worth. Ive heard of great successes with foliar ca applications but ive never tried it.
Perhaps it's too early now, as I still can't remember. Harley Smith was singing the virtues of something, that would open the pathways from passing one, to two, to dozens (I think he said thousands). The same stuff within the plant, would then hold the Ca, drawing it like magnets.
I know this chatter was close to the humic/seaweed ratio stuff, which I do follow blindly. It may of been the same talk. I'm shamefully lacking in this area of knowledge. The Osram guys visiting all the big greenhouses have only ever made one off topic comment to my knowledge (as lighting professionals). They are plant scientists themselves, and like me, surprised just what some of these things can do. Seeing them as important.

It's a thread we really should have. Personally, I have used some seaweed based stuff forever, and the humic since reading Bills great thread. I can't say much about the humic, but the seaweed I use is a great pH up, due to the K. I use it when I drop a clanger, or I'm hand watering something in. It's not great to put something so black through the hydro, and it settles on everything. My favourate feed contains it as standard though, and at lower levels, it's clean enough.


Back on topic, Ca can be helped by bottles, and I think it goes beyond chelation. Things like Superthrive just never go away, and while it's not on my list, I can't ignore it's stay in the market.
I realise my humic use, is probably to get the fulvic. Which means I won't use it in late flower.

I tried a Ca spray, but it just seemed to cover my plants in white dust. I didn't see any other difference, but then, I didn't have any issues anyway. Again, I was having a listen to Bill, who was saying a Ca bump reduced stretch. I just got Ca dust.
 

greyfader

Well-known member
i've been using fulvic acid (mr fulvic) for about 2 years now at 1ml per gallon mixed into the liquid feed tank. also a heaping teaspoon of maxicrop seaweed powder per 30 gals.

humic acid has been shown to lower thc content. humic acid has a large molecule that does not pass through cell membranes easily while fulvic acid has a much smaller molecule and moves easily throughout the plant.

i have not read of any negative effects fulvic may have on cannabis. i've searched google scholar on the topic and can't find anything.

i was using the jack's 3-2-1 formula before using fulvic acid. per 30 gals it was 90 gr jack's 5-12-26, 30 gr magnesium sulphate, and 60 grams of calcinit. this produces about 1000 ppm or ec2 including my tap water. no over ferting symptoms shown.

with fulvic acid at this strength, i got over ferting symptoms. mr fulvic is a strong chelator and ph stabilizer.

so, i began mixing at 66% of the original starting nutrient dose, which is, per 30 gallons, 60 gr jack's, 20 gr mag sulphate, and 40 grams calcinit.

this produces about 800 ppm or ec 1.6.

all of the over ferting issues went away. so, to me, it looks like the fulvic acid is making nutrients more available to the plant.

i also get a better growth rate with the lower dose. and no tendency to accumulate nutrients in the recirculating part of the system.

dr Bugbee does most of his experiments using a form of recirculating soilless. he is recommending running a ph of 6.5 for soilless.

i have been keeping my ph between 6.2 and 6.4 and i think i'm getting better uptake or better nutrient ratios going into the plant.

now, i think that soilless needs to be treated as a third range for ph.

the old hydro and soil ph charts are basically obsolete when using a recirculating soilless scheme.

here are a couple of charts that i think are more suitable for recirc soilless.
 

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Ca++

Well-known member
Bruce uses about 6.5 in every system type. He says iron deficiency doesn't happen, as cannabis is very good at finding iron. Which has led him to this.

I get iron deficiency, but my tap has 280ppm of calcium carbonate. Actually calcium carbonate, not total hardness expressed that way. I only see Ca problems if I keep letting them go dry for hours.

Oh.. that reminds me. I have something I must do
 

greyfader

Well-known member
unlike a roots in the water hydro scheme using soilless allows you to have a substantial beneficial microbe population in the media.

i've been using EWC mixed into a perlite medium. i believe this is inoculating beneficials into the system and that they are maintained throughout the grow by the fulvic acid and root exudates.

in my current grow i mixed 3lbs of EWC into the top half of 6 gallons of perlite. i also mixed in an 18 oz solo cup of DE into the medium.

both EWC and DE add a substantial CEC to perlite, which has virtually none.

another benefit of using EWC and DE with fulvic acid in the system is that i'm not seeing any fungus gnats. or any other pest either. i've been bug free for over 2 years.

in addition to using led or hps lighting, almost every one of us is culturing the plant in a different manner.

the interactions of nutrients, media or lack of, and environmental conditions may be influencing the plants' reactions to the light source.

making it very difficult for some folks to ascertain the effectiveness of their lighting.

using hps lights and the basic jack's formula, which has 6.36% magnesium in it to begin with, i never had to add any extra magnesium.

using led lighting i see some slight interveinal chlorosis if i don't add the extra mag sulphate at the dose described above.

all chlorophyll molecule types have magnesium as the central atom. i think the need for extra magnesium demonstrates that led plants are being driven at a higher metabolic rate than hps plants.
 
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Ca++

Well-known member
i have not read of any negative effects fulvic may have on cannabis. i've searched google scholar on the topic and can't find anything.
You are almost certainly right. I got that from a casual post somebody made. You have the edge, for sure.
I should get some, but I don't seem to have the product choices I needed, when I looked. While some pretty raw humic was very cheap and available.
I'm pretty sure my seaweed is cold pressed, and a product around before I was. Plants pick up when they get it, but adding it every day isn't useful. Every week I should be thinking about it, but it remains just my emergency pH up.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
No im not one that will be offended by your statement but those buds you post look like any commercial cali spain weed to me. They dont glitter and shine like glass. Why I cant say my opinion shure those buds are not high grade Im ok if you think that mine also are not high grade.
Want post here anymore I sad what I sad nothing new to add.
I dont care about your feelings I just debate here.
Tric's do not glitter/shine when milky(RIPE). Plants are not ready to harvest with clear heads. If you are looking for glitter, clear unripe trics do it in spades.
 
As i said, my Ogs and many others ive run for over a decade, not only produce the exact same smell and taste under led vs hid, but it is more intense.

And what's that smell? Tennis ball? Walmart sneaker insole? That's what I'm hearing OG fuel is, from the kids. Big factor, since craft markets out east don't play the "every terps a winner" game.


"Gassy/skunky" doesn't make sense as a descriptor. Two completely different categories. You've now been categorized.

A lot of the big names ( ***) are going back to DE HPS.
Just saying.
Some strains seem to finish much better under HPS, some like LEDs.

Those people are all nobodies in the real breeding world. No one is going to be smoking Mac Muffins under federal legalization, or the "myrcene version of skunk" I keep hearing about. They'll smoke Dole and Heinz strains. Ask me how I know.

The led industry sucks. Nothing wrong with the tech at all. Just the R&D dept aka the "big names" of youtube weed growing. If they were big names they would have been consulting with spider spectra marsbars fancy farmer lighting group for free shit that actually worked. Bins and bins of leds in all the flavors and these "big names" couldn't piece together a spectrum worth a shit? California needs to BAN HID. I just sent a letter to CA congresswoman Nancy "Mac Muffins" Pelosi informing her of these unqualified electricity wasting west coast pot growers.
Im shure that Led dont produce them.
Every cut under hids have that alchocols,solvent smell while with leds non of it.
White widow,jack herer, bubblegum,bruce,ogkush...

Solvent/fuel smells are alkenes, not thiols. Nute issue?








Tric's do not glitter/shine when milky(RIPE). Plants are not ready to harvest with clear heads. If you are looking for glitter, clear unripe trics do it in spades.

Top priced product in the world is harvested clear, turns milky in cure. I'm always confused by the guys who demonize properly grown, typically the same type to say the fuel terps vanish during the cure. My fuel terps explode during the cure. Sometimes I wonder if it's simply guys feeding low N and harvesting late. Hard to believe all the genetics in the US sucks as bad as what I've seen so far. It's got to be the growers.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Top priced product in the world is harvested clear, turns milky in cure. I'm always confused by the guys who demonize properly grown, typically the same type to say the fuel terps vanish during the cure. My fuel terps explode during the cure. Sometimes I wonder if it's simply guys feeding low N and harvesting late. Hard to believe all the genetics in the US sucks as bad as what I've seen so far. It's got to be the growers.


Not my flowers lol. Ive never had trics turn milky after harvesting a plant.. There's a reason people hate dispo weed. Unwilling to learn to grow well is why you believe that lol.
 

Crooked8

Well-known member
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
And what's that smell? Tennis ball? Walmart sneaker insole? That's what I'm hearing OG fuel is, from the kids. Big factor, since craft markets out east don't play the "every terps a winner" game.


"Gassy/skunky" doesn't make sense as a descriptor. Two completely different categories. You've now been categorized.



Those people are all nobodies in the real breeding world. No one is going to be smoking Mac Muffins under federal legalization, or the "myrcene version of skunk" I keep hearing about. They'll smoke Dole and Heinz strains. Ask me how I know.

The led industry sucks. Nothing wrong with the tech at all. Just the R&D dept aka the "big names" of youtube weed growing. If they were big names they would have been consulting with spider spectra marsbars fancy farmer lighting group for free shit that actually worked. Bins and bins of leds in all the flavors and these "big names" couldn't piece together a spectrum worth a shit? California needs to BAN HID. I just sent a letter to CA congresswoman Nancy "Mac Muffins" Pelosi informing her of these unqualified electricity wasting west coast pot growers.


Solvent/fuel smells are alkenes, not thiols. Nute issue?










Top priced product in the world is harvested clear, turns milky in cure. I'm always confused by the guys who demonize properly grown, typically the same type to say the fuel terps vanish during the cure. My fuel terps explode during the cure. Sometimes I wonder if it's simply guys feeding low N and harvesting late. Hard to believe all the genetics in the US sucks as bad as what I've seen so far. It's got to be the growers.
Did you just start growing weed like yesterday? Gassy and skunky smells are associated all the time. You decided to drop by and just talk down to 4 different people in one post. When did you join ic? 2 weeks ago? Weve been at this a long time. Trichomes do not develop during cure the way youre indicating. Gas and skunk smells both fall in a diesel/og lineage description constantly. And that og smell is often also associated with pine, lemon and fuel. This is a super troll post if ive ever seen one holy crap. Saying top product has clear trichomes at harvest is absurd and very untrue. Also you wrote a letter to pelosi? To complain about use of hid? Um, how about let people do their thing? Im sorry thats just on some snitch level shit if you ask me.
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
Tric's do not glitter/shine when milky(RIPE). Plants are not ready to harvest with clear heads. If you are looking for glitter, clear unripe trics do it in spades.
I dont know in my expirience my brown shine also as clear but they all shine.
Screenshot_20231103-190048~2.png

You clearly see brown/yellow and white shine.
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
And what's that smell? Tennis ball? Walmart sneaker insole? That's what I'm hearing OG fuel is, from the kids. Big factor, since craft markets out east don't play the "every terps a winner" game.


"Gassy/skunky" doesn't make sense as a descriptor. Two completely different categories. You've now been categorized.



Those people are all nobodies in the real breeding world. No one is going to be smoking Mac Muffins under federal legalization, or the "myrcene version of skunk" I keep hearing about. They'll smoke Dole and Heinz strains. Ask me how I know.

The led industry sucks. Nothing wrong with the tech at all. Just the R&D dept aka the "big names" of youtube weed growing. If they were big names they would have been consulting with spider spectra marsbars fancy farmer lighting group for free shit that actually worked. Bins and bins of leds in all the flavors and these "big names" couldn't piece together a spectrum worth a shit? California needs to BAN HID. I just sent a letter to CA congresswoman Nancy "Mac Muffins" Pelosi informing her of these unqualified electricity wasting west coast pot growers.


Solvent/fuel smells are alkenes, not thiols. Nute issue?










Top priced product in the world is harvested clear, turns milky in cure. I'm always confused by the guys who demonize properly grown, typically the same type to say the fuel terps vanish during the cure. My fuel terps explode during the cure. Sometimes I wonder if it's simply guys feeding low N and harvesting late. Hard to believe all the genetics in the US sucks as bad as what I've seen so far. It's got to be the growers.
Yes thats it. Smell like kerosinish-peppery-garlic fresh tennis ball can funk.
I cant get that thing with leds that is what Om talking about I get radicoulus pungent skunky-beer lemony spicy kushy with leds but is alays missing.
Chatted with grower about that that grew more than 30 "real" og cuts in us he grow with leds never had that smell.
While hids growers have.

I dont know I just start few months ago resrch these topic about SC and other things. Will need nire time to go in debate what molecules are causing which smell.
To me I call them all SC cuz they are very close in that acid smell that comes when you start chop your onions or garlic. Nose and eyes burning pungency.
I remember my runs and harvests in non vented room while litteraly my sinuses nose and throuth where burned few days after.
With leds i get more different plesent smells but those acid fumes that start to reek at harvest when you chop your plants just like chopped garlic are non existing (mesured by my senses.)

Thats the best I can explain this in few words.
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
Not if they are milky. Only clear heads will reflect the light.
This picture is pictured by phone so white led light was spread on trichs yellow one reflect back yellow light, clear/milky sends back white light.
It can easily be seen at this photo.
But its probably cuz of root problems and early harvest. 👍
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview

"Overall, the LEDs won handily for weight and THC percentage. When it comes to terpenes, the LECs ended up on top. The plants had similar terpenes ratios, but the LECs averaged higher amounts overall."

Very good as always report by gwe.
 
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