Cerathule
Well-known member
I've done this already and they grew towards the 6500k CFL. But the incandescant caused a shade-avoidance syndrome due to its massive FR output
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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
Plants uptake Nutrients based on the proper pH. It makes a difference in keeping plants green/healthy without adding unnecessary additives. The addition of more Cal/mag when using LED didn't seem like the right answer.. Changing the feed pH to help plants uptake a specific Macro better seemed like the right answer.
In hydro, CAL and MAG use different pH levels for the best uptake. As you can see feeding at 5.8+ you not gonna get much Cal. If your feed IS below 5.8 your not gonna get much MAG
MAG pH range=5.8-8
CAL pH range=4.5 -5.8
Soilless there is no gap between them so we can use the same PH.
CAL pH=6.5-8
MAG pH=6.5-8
I think this is a better approach than adding more of anything. Cal is the only Macro with a huge gap from Mag in hydro. With the right PH, it can affect metabolism. Sorry, I got a little off-topic.
In hydro, CAL and MAG use different pH levels for the best uptake. As you can see feeding at 5.8+ you not gonna get much Cal. If your feed IS below 5.8 your not gonna get much MAG
MAG pH range=5.8-8
CAL pH range=4.5 -5.8
Soilless there is no gap between them so we can use the same PH.
CAL pH=6.5-8
MAG pH=6.5-8
I think this is a better approach than adding more of anything. Cal is the only Macro with a huge gap from Mag in hydro. With the right PH, it can affect metabolism. Sorry, I got a little off-topic.
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
will see what my result are.
Im more open to science than to be beliver.
I will do this also here maybe under camera 0-24h.
Glad to know you did this
Nothing about their findings calls out leds for not producing SC though. All you did was show us that sulfur compounds exist in cannabis which i think a lot of us already knew. Their research doesnt back up anything related to lighting type reducing or as you suggested, eliminating sc in cannabis. Thiols are also found in grapefruit!A new study is offering one of the most comprehensive investigations ever conducted into the chemical origins of cannabis' unique “skunk-like” smell. The study reveals an entirely new family of sulfur compounds accounts for the novel odor and these molecules are chemically similar to aroma compounds found in garlic.
That is what im talking about I dont get much of these scents under leds even if plant have more resin etc ..and then someone mesure terps and i feel with my nose that they are stronger under leds than under hids more flavour more rounded is with leds some new strains taste like candys literally.
While bubblegum under led have that sour gluish,metalic scent again it missing that fresh cutted garlic like scent which I always have with hids.
I feel good now cuz science more and more backs up my theory.
Cerathule
Well-known member
How so?I feel good now cuz science more and more backs up my theory.
Excerpt from the original research:
"Samples of cannabis flowers were curated from different sources. Cultivars Cali Berry, Apple Fritter, Gouda Berry, and Jetlag OG were purchased from Cookies dispensary (SanBernardino, CA). Black Jack and Area 41 were purchased from Hyperwolf Riverside dispensary (Riverside, CA). Gushers, Gelato, and Bacio Gelato were purchased from Catalyst (LongBeach, CA), The Circle (Long Beach, CA), and Sherbinskis (Los Angeles, CA) dispensaries, respectively."
Does this study write anything light spectrum related or about what lamps the providers used? It seems to target the genetical aspects to it...
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
You have grow room,cuttings make micro system the same as you have. Use the same nutes same genetics same room temp....and you will find out difference.
Logicaly and matematicaly hps and leds are very different sources of light they cant produce the same results.
When you do that go to lab and test the samples.
But if its all done right your nose will tell you differences for shure.
HalfArsedFarmer
Well-known member
Brilliant folks we'll done for getting it back on track...
As Elton once Sang " Sorry seems to be the hardest word"
We're all here to learn...
As far as the bouquet and flavour goes I think with a lot of cultivars it's subjective.
Unless it's very defined.
As Elton once Sang " Sorry seems to be the hardest word"
We're all here to learn...
As far as the bouquet and flavour goes I think with a lot of cultivars it's subjective.
Unless it's very defined.
As I said, I have done this and currently my girlfriend runs a room with BOTH in the same space. One half is CMH and one half is LED. The products smell identical. I have them both in front of me, same nutes, same irrigation, same strains, just different lights. No difference in smell and plenty of gassy skunky funk from both. More intensely gassy/skunk with the led to be honest.You have grow room,cuttings make micro system the same as you have. Use the same nutes same genetics same room temp....and you will find out difference.
Logicaly and matematicaly hps and leds are very different sources of light they cant produce the same results.
When you do that go to lab and test the samples.
But if its all done right your nose will tell you differences for shure.
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
Do you have pictures of those 2 buds in front of you.
It will be graet to see.
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
Phototropism; the way the plant turns towards the light; is generally governed by UV, it will turn towards it thinking its the sun.
Check your led grown plants the first time you turn on the UV diodes, they go apeshit praying for the first while it is getting aclimated
I can imagine the cfl 6500 has a bit of uv or n-uva
Broggemann
Active member
A lot of the big names (Capulator, Seedjunky, Preferred Gardens, Mittenmaster, Jungle Boys - to name a few) are going back to DE HPS.
Just saying.
Some strains seem to finish much better under HPS, some like LEDs.
Just saying.
Some strains seem to finish much better under HPS, some like LEDs.
Cerathule
Well-known member
So one of the fundamental differences of hydro like DWC, or aqua/aeroponics is that the rootzone is constantly getting washed by a flow of water and everything the roots secrets won't stay there and gets much dilluted by the water/nute solution. This means that a plants ability to regulate the pH of its rhizosphere is almost nonexistant. Roots release alot of protons or organic acids like citrate or malate to mobilise and chelate elements latent in the soil. So outside in soil pH 7 the roots will still be surrounded by a mm thin layer of ph 5-6.
In hydro etc you also don't have a solid phase or a CEC to take sorptive Ca out, but instead an amount of fallout over time when cationic Ca complexes with anionic P & S to form insoluble calciumphosphates or -sulphates. The constant stirring or turnover of the solution adds to this in comparison to still water in a pot or soil.
I don't understand why Ca in water suddenly needs acidic conditions for optimal uptake? The root is still the same as is the physics of the water.
"pH monitoring and control.
Is pH control important? Most people assume pH control is essential, but there is considerable misunderstanding about the effect of pH on plant growth. Plants grow equally well between pH 4 and 7, if nutrients do not become limiting. This is because the direct effects of pH on root growth are small, the problem is reduced nutrient availability at high and low pH. The recommended pH for hydroponic culture is between 5.5 to 5.8 because overall availability of nutrients is optimized at a slightly acid pH. The availabilities of Mn, Cu, Zn and especially Fe are reduced at higher pH, and there is a small decrease in availability of P, K, Ca, Mg at lower pH. Reduced availability means reduced nutrient uptake, but not necessarily nutrient deficiency...."
greyfader
Well-known member
@CannaT Strain is from a test run i did for Karma and Hortilab in 2013. This is Hortilabs Starbud Sister x Karmas Biker OG. Top photo is no flash second with flash. On the left is CMH on the right is LED. CMH is fluffier and greener, slightly more subtle nose but still very loud skunky pine gassy smells, on the right with the LED we see more compact structure, more anthocyannin production and its just slightly more aromatic and skunky. They are seriously near identical on the nose, just seems LED produced more of a nose. I purposefully chose to show you this because it has OG lineage and is something ive grown since i popped the seed in 2013. Ive run this under single ended HPS in a personal space, under 140 DE hps commercially, under CMH, and under gavita, boulderlamp, chilLed, Ion and now Agrobar LEDs. There is no strain i am more familiar with.
Isn’t that in agreement with what @Hammerhead is saying? You can either adjust pH, or increase less available nutrients {if required}?
If you ask any soiless vendor they will tell ya to use it like hydro. This is not correct. I would suggest people fix the pH to help their plants uptake what they need better. I did this and it worked perfectly. I should mention the soil outside is not what soilless medium is. Sometimes people overthink what it takes to grow well.
Cerathule
Well-known member
Yeah and alot of blue, these receptors respond to both
And the CFL had double the watts and a better efficiency as the halogen-incandescant. Also not to be neglected to actual flux strength, and not spectrum alone, needs to be considered. All the FR/IR would signal the plant is a shade condition. Why would a sunplant grow towards that?
Have you found they grew towards UVB as well?
This dramatically contradicts bugbees findings. Ph monitoring and tissue testing showed clear indication that Ph impacts what is taken up macro vs micro. Also, in my experience in DWC the lack of CEC did not impact the ability for the rhizosphere to acidify. We watched them drop the Ph as much as from a 6-5 in 36hrs when we didnt supplement Phosphorous enough a couple runs. Bugbees example, they purposefully limited P concentration and showed how when this happens, the plants acidify their root zone so dramatically it almost always caused them to take in too many micros to the point of toxicity, showing inner veinal necrosis and chlorosis rather quickly. I forget which micro was the culprit either Manganese or Molybdenum but i think it was Manganese that caused the necrotic/chlorotic blotching. Ive also personally seen in the past what happens when we dont monitor ph, it causes problems with uptake for sure. And at a ph of 4, we’re so acidic it can dissolve root material. Food for thought.
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
I would suppose so but we never use uvb without uva, and both are so spread out that its not possible to see really where they were pointing. It was more like they were just throwing everything up in the air for like 45 mins then back to normal.Yeah and alot of blue, these receptors respond to both
And the CFL had double the watts and a better efficiency as the halogen-incandescant. Also not to be neglected to actual flux strength, and not spectrum alone, needs to be considered. All the FR/IR would signal the plant is a shade condition. Why would a sunplant grow towards that?
Have you found they grew towards UVB as well?
