Lazy Growing

[vonforne]

Nice thread GMT, I have been topping due to a grow room construction problem. It seems to work great. I have picked up many tips from your thread. Thanks. My girls say Thanks also. HaHa. I like to cut clones from the leads rather than just pinch them off. Some of my Phenos of Grapefruit grow faster than others, so it works great. Keep up the great posts and information. Again Thanks for taking the time to spread your knowledge.

Von

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

... But I haven't ever seen a die back ocuur past a nodal point that has healthy branches growing from it. Have you? As if you have, I'll rethink starting at such a low node in the future.

Yes, only once with 420, but more than rarely with bonsai material. All cuts - like with people - can get infected / breakdown, and in this case the node below may suffer as well. It's not a big deal, just me being conservative from my tainted past...

No controversy intended, just yakkin -

You've caught a lot of attention with this thread! Good one!

 

[GMT]

Hi DP I missed your post in the mist, sorry, yeah we are all looking for that 1 week strain lol. Hi Von, thanks, I'm glad its of some use.
Hey MGJ, thanks for that info, I havent seen it myself, but in light of that, I would now advise to wait until the first set of true leaves to begin topping, that way if it goes wrong and kills off that node too, the node at which I topped will kick in. Nice info MGJ thanks.

 

[bounty29]

...topping and lst techniques are mutually exclusive. If you use one, dont use the other...

Mind if I ask why? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious. Would the same apply for FIMming and LST?

 

[GMT]

Its tricky to explain but I'll give it a shot. When you lst a plant (Low Stress Training) what you do is grow a main stem central cola style (one long central stem) and then bend that over so that new shoots grow from all the nodes. This is meant to generate lots of tops to the plant and allow the light to be nearly equal distance from them all. But when you top, these new shoots have already become new tops, and then trying to bend all these tops over wont generate and new shoots from the nodes, as they have already become new tops. Also because these tops are all pointing upwards already and fairly equally distant from the light, by bending them over, some will become further away from the light than others. So lsting a multiple topped plant, will not generate any new shoots, and make the distance from the light, unequal rather than equal. That's why I said they were mutualy exclusive.
Fimming is another technique entirely. Its all hit and miss really. For anyone who doesn't know, fimming is when rather than removing the whole of the new bud, you cut across the base of the bud leaving a very small part of that bud. It's unreliable and not for the newbie to play with, or me either. Rather than the gauranteed 2 tops forming from the node below the bud you remove when topping, you may get the bud you cut regenerating itself and continuing with one main stalk, it may top that bud, or it can generate multiple buds from that bud. It takes a while to see what has happened and what happens will be unreliable. So by fimming you effectively leave the node below the fimm point untouched, which would then respond to lsting, but you are playing with unkown growing styles and that is always going to give you the unexpected. Personally I would stick to simple topping methods at each node. You know what you will get and it will generate an even canopy.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

im seriously sorry if u or anyone took my interested questions as a threat to ur way of growing. im not a english talking person - and i presume sometimes what i want to say doesnt get thru.

i only wanted to know a bit more, since i like learning about other styles and techniques etc etc for me an ex-gardner this is something that really interests me - growing of plants. and yeah i agree that the more advanced techinques might be over the level of the ppl u want to educate. sorry for complicating it all for u guys - my misstake to think it was ok to ask questions.

now after the PM you sent i DO understand ur reaction. its cool mate, but im not ur enemy.

every-one is free to interpret what they read as they want, but i will try to be more atent with my writing. anyway - i deleted the posts

im not ofended nor do i get anoyed easilly.

now i leave u guys in peace. sorry again

bone

 

[DurbanPoison]

Without trying to take over the thread or ramble too much, sorry in advance:

In my current setup I FIM'd 7 plants. Only 3 took and exploded with 3 new shoots which is great for the successful plants, but a waste on the rest as they just paused growth for a day or two and then continued as usual... Reverting back to LST now is going great for the ones that didn't accept the FIM, but the FIM'd are going to be a PITA to train now because of the way the new growth has pushed everything out of wack. I can agree with it being best to just use one technique. Look at the results of Topping from early age. It's TOO easy & reliable. I don't think I'll be doing LST (Other than ScrOG) in the future with Topping being as reliable as been proven. I just have an extremely small space so ScrOG has been pretty effective for me. I'll have to compare and see which way I yield more.

 

[GMT]

No worries bonecarver, as I said in my pm, its cool. Someone else sent me a pm expressing a desire to ask a question but not wanting to take the thread off topic. I dont mind questions really, in fact if I miss something out its better if the questions are asked.
So, on with the thread. In response to the pm, which asked about the best way to grow if vertical space is an issue. I think I'd start a couple of seeds, and take some clones of them. Then flower the original plants to find the girls. The girls can be kept and the boys thrown away. Once you have your female clones, you will need a second chamber to keep them under 24 hours of light while the flowering girls are under 12 hours of light. You will save hight, as the clones of the girls will be mature already, meaning that you dont have to give them 4 weeks of veg time and can start to flower as soon as they have a good root structure. This will reduce the hight you need straight away. After that you can use which ever training techniques you feel best suits your style. But I like topping as a method in any circumstances.
Hi DP, yeah, that's exactly what I mean by fimmind being unreliable. The problem with scrogs is the extra veg time and training effort you need to put in. That's why topping is so easy. You cut the bud off, and that's it till the next buds are ready to be cut off.
You start with the rooted cuttings
And you snip the top off at the point you choose


Repot them into an appropriate size pot. And let them continue growing, snipping as you go, until you are ready to flower them.

 

[Guest]

GMT is the man that's gonna put grow shops outta business!!!

Coz growing a weed is a science isn't it..?

Don't fert - you may burn 'em. Get a good soil then just water occasionally and stick a light on 'em.

That's simply the genius of the plant that we love. It should do the work for you.

I think the lazy style kicks ass, affordable, low stress and guess what it works!!!

Rock on dude.

 

[DurbanPoison]

Well - I'm not sure if maybe I don't understand ScrOG right, but I've read of two methods. 1 - Fill the screen 50-75% and then switch to flower. 2 - Once the plant(s) hit the screen, switch to flower. I'm planning on going with method two.
In the end, this is my Goal:
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/3648ngb2.jpg
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/3648ngb1.jpg
Did my best to copy NGB's SWC micro cab.

Sorry for going off topic there, but what type of ScrOG method are you familiar with?

 

[dre86]

GMT, I have a question regarding your above post ^^^
How old would be the minimum age (how long veg or how many nodes) for a rooted cutting to put it into flowering to make it worth it...? What happens if you put plants (rooted clones) to soon into flowering, do they produce very little bud or wouldn't they flower and stay in veg for a while on 12/12 like seedlings started in 12/12?

 

[BlindDate]

Some strains can root 100% under any conditions and some will need the optimum. GMT can sick his cuttings into a pot of dirt and come back in a few weeks to a healthy plant. I'm sure his plant is primarily sativa, not indica.

It would be a mistake to assume all strains are the same. Successful rooting requires good aeration, proper humidity and a helping hormone will do wonders.

 

[GMT]

DP, SCROGS are just static lst grows. the idea is to get an even canopy in order to get as much light not only on the tops of the plants but to as much of the plant as possible. The principles of doing this are the same in lst grows, topping exercises, and scrogs. The difference on methods depends largely on whether you are growing sativas or indicas as sativas (typically) stretch more at 12/12 than indicas do. So you need to fill the screens more with an indica dominant plant more than you would a sativa dominant plant as the sativa will fill more of the screen at 12/12 than an indica will. So its really about getting the timing right for what you are growing than a standard amount for the tachnique.
Dre, an immature plant, (ie less than around 4 weeks) will stay in veg until it is mature regardless of the light length. After this point it will flower at 12/12. If the plant is small then the buds it produces will be small. Just get the size right for the space you are working with and you'll get the optimum harvest for that space. There aren't really hard and fast rules for that it's just about getting it right for you.
Blind date, my plants are very indica dominant. I can't touch sativas at all. Some plants are real pains to try to get to root. I dont think that has much to do with indica/sativa traits. I dont use humidity domes etc, although if fungus gnats are flying in squadrons, then i sometimes use gnat shields. You may rely on more purchases to get clones going, all I am saying is that it's not necessary.

 

[DurbanPoison]

GMT don't like tha Sativa mon. You got it wrong.

 

[dre86]

Thx, I will leave them veg for 2 weeks till they are bigger

 

[slang]

GMT......hmmm, my clones died but it could do with the light or the soil moisture. I'm going to do it again paying better attention and having more patience. I like your comment regarding the business end of the grow. I'll burn my ez-cloner once these babies root...

peas.

 

[Alex-F]

I've just copy and pasted this post from my Part time thread. I will do the topping exercise in real time too in this thread, but for now, just one I did before so you can see what the aims are.


The second pic below is a nice point to remove the first bud

Then let new buds grow

Once there is a nice double set of leaves, top both new buds again

Of course this can be repeated as many times as you want


Some people prefer LST, but I think the weaker support stucture that that provides, restricts the final hual, even though it would probably still be bigger than normal single cola harvests (per plant).

I like the way that plants topped heavily grow as you can see in this pic.


I'll show pics of this being done with clones next, but that will be the real time bit I told you about, as that's what I'm working with at the moment. The above topping exercise was done from seed.

Well I tried but:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GMT again.

Keep up the good work mate :wink:

 

[Jenna]

Nice thread GMT! Did you say you were growing blockhead?

 

[Alex-F]

No he's not, they're too sat for him :wink:

 

[GMT]

Slang, when you say soil MIX, what is the mix? I just use soil. The light intensity is the most important part. Don't get it too close or the cut will have too much work to do. The cut should turn its head and leaves towards the light source within 12 hours, if it doesn't there is something wrong.
Hey Alex, no worries mate, I just lost the rep title I liked anyway, guess I should start annoying people, I liked having a spectacular aura, not so sure about being a jewel in the rough though lol.
Hi Jenna, Alex is right, I started one off but the combo of it's reputation and the leaf structure scared me off and I had to kill it. I'm too much of a woos to grow sativas. I end up hiding under the douvet. If I wanted to do a sat grow, I'd grow the blockheads and cross them to the malberinos, as I reckon that would produce some great plants, maybe Alex can be talked into doing that work at some point.
I'm gonna have to make do with this indica in a couple of weeks when its ready