I thunk if you look in to comments from the founding fathers, in support of 2nd amendment in the aspect of the defense of tyranny. If this is a part of the 2nd amendments original purpose, then you are faced with a simple question. Would the founders who just won a war with a tyrannical monarchy, want the people armed with only muskets? Or would the founders want us to be free to be sufficiently armed to defend the constitution and the freedom from tyranny? I don't think Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Samuel Adams or any of the signers of the constitution would want an under armed populous.
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
Las Vegas
- Thread starter Hermanthegerman
- Start date
- Status
G `day Folks
Extra long bent magazines .
Dude had about 15 magazines piled up by the window .
Another anomaly shot for an hour . Can`t see shell cases by the window ?
Photos @ Best Gore .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
with so many hood-rats armed to the teeth illegally in the US, if they go taking the weapons off the sensible registered users, it would be like giving the real crooks a green light to create more mayhem than there currently is.
And who provides the criminal elements with these weapons that even civilians can't own?
Do you remember Operation Fast And Furious? Gun Dealers were approached by the government and told to commit felonies by selling to known criminals or lose their license. It was Stae-sponsored arming of hostile forces.
All Crime Is Organized.
Harry Browne ( RIP Harry ) had solutions to this and other things in his run as Libertarian candidate in 2000. Harry has since passed on but his books have helped many people find their way financially and other ways. I was reading Harry's books back in the 70's as he was a financial guru of sorts. Enjoy these, we may never again see anyone quite like Harry Browne
Harry Browne 2000 ads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pIYIB4JfzA
Harry Browne 2000 ads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pIYIB4JfzA
In November 2009, the ATF’s Phoenix field office launched an operation in which guns bought by drug-cartel straw purchasers in the U.S. were allowed to “walk” across the border into Mexico.
ATF agents would then track the guns as they made their way through the ranks of the cartel. At least, that was the theory. In reality, once the guns walked across the border, they were gone.
Whistleblowers reported, and investigators later confirmed, that the ATF made no effort to trace the guns.
In March 2010, a few ATF agents voiced an obvious concern: Couldn’t the guns end up being used in crimes? Seven months later, that’s exactly what happened.
The brother of the former attorney general of the state of Chihuahua was murdered, and Fast and Furious weapons were found at the scene. In December, the scheme’s ramifications crossed back over the border.
On December 14, four Border Patrol agents were staked out near Rio Rico, Ariz., eleven miles north of the Mexican border. A five-man “rip crew,” a group looking to rob drug smugglers crossing the border, opened fire when the agents attempted to apprehend. Agent Terry was struck in the back and bled to death.
Two of the guns involved in the shootout were traced back to Fast and Furious, which continued for another six weeks.
The operation was finally shut down with the help of Senator Chuck Grassley (R., Iowa), then ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who promptly opened an investigation. Two months later, Darrell Issa (R., Calif.), then chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, opened his own investigation in the House.
Operation Fast and Furious would have been bad enough. But the investigation made clear a widespread cover-up.
In February, in response to a request from Grassley, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich submitted for the record a letter declaring that any claim “that ATF ‘sanctioned’ or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them to Mexico — is false.
ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico.”
In November, Attorney General Eric Holder admitted that gun-walking was, in fact, used, and in December the Obama administration formally withdrew Weich’s letter from the congressional record — because it was, in Holder’s words, “inaccurate.”
By that time, Holder had become a figure of particular interest. What did the attorney general know about the operation, and when did he know it?
In May 2011, he claimed to have known about gun-walking tactics for only a few weeks. But by October, new documents showed that Holder had been briefed about Operation Fast and Furious as early as July 2010. And in January 2010, just months after the ATF had launched Operation Fast and Furious, personnel from the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, a multi-agency network run by the Department of Justice, had been brought in to provide additional manpower.
Furthermore, the operation may have had an explicitly political angle. E-mails obtained by CBS News in late 2011 showed ATF officials corresponding about the possibility of using Fast and Furious to push through a regulation requiring gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.”
In other words, the ATF permitted certain gun shops to conduct certain, inadvisable sales to dangerous people and then planned to point to those sales to justify the need for new reporting requirements.
By the summer of 2012, Holder and the House Oversight Committee were at a standoff, the attorney general claiming he had been fully responsive to the committee’s request for documents, Issa claiming that the DOJ had withheld 1,300 key pages.
President Obama, intervening, declared that the documents were protected under executive privilege — a risible claim, legally, and a suggestive one, given the White House’s denial of involvement.
In late June, at the recommendation of the committee, Holder became the first sitting member of a presidential cabinet to be held in contempt by the House of Representatives. In September, the administration declared victory.
The Department of Justice’s inspector general released a report recommending disciplinary action against 14 federal officials and absolving Holder — seemingly. In fact, the report noted a series of extraordinary coincidences in which, several times in 2010 and 2011, information about the program made it all the way to Holder’s desk — but without the attorney general’s ever managing to pass his eyes over it. Odd, that.
Since then, the investigation into Fast and Furious has been tied up in the courts, where the House challenged the president’s executive-privilege claim. But the ATF & Co.’s horrendous judgment continues to take a toll.
By the time of the House’s contempt vote, some 300 Mexicans had been killed or wounded by Fast and Furious firearms, and that number has surely risen.
In December 2013, a walked gun was found at the site of a gunfight at a Mexican resort that left five cartel members dead. The guns have found their way north, too.
A weapon owned by Nadir Soofi, one of the two Muslim terrorists who tried to shoot up Pamela Geller’s “Draw Muhammad” contest in Texas last May, was acquired through Fast and Furious.
The guns have found their way north, too. It is difficult to overstate both how stupid and how incompetent were the whole host of federal officials involved in this fiasco, who first thought it was a swell idea to traffic thousands of guns to Mexican criminals, then blithely forgot about them.
It is difficult, too, to overstate the contempt of this administration for transparency, given that, having made those fatal mistakes, its response was to hide them from a congressional inquiry, going so far as to invoke executive privilege to do so. At best, the operation and its aftermath were an exercise in astonishing malpractice; at worst, the administration knowingly exhibited a reckless disregard for human life — then covered it up. Under “Operation Fast & Furious,” the U.S. government became a de facto arms dealer to Mexican drug cartels and Islamist criminals. But this administration still wants to lecture Americans about gun control . . . — Ian Tuttle is a National Review Institute Buckley Fellow in Political Journalism.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430153/fast-furious-obamas-first-scandal
G
Guest
Why should they pay for the insanity of a nut?
Were Paddocks gambling habit and real estate ventures actually a front for major money laundering ?
Many people claiming Fast and Furious/Iran Contra type operation funding ISIS.
Money, Drugs, Weapons
Supposed evidence will be announced showing Methamphetamine manufacture connection. . .
Many people claiming Fast and Furious/Iran Contra type operation funding ISIS.
Money, Drugs, Weapons
Supposed evidence will be announced showing Methamphetamine manufacture connection. . .
In the USA both of the major political parties fund-raise on gun massacres.
But no other single entity cashes in on the carnage of American citizens more than the arms/gun industry.
Try to buy a Fostech Defend AR-15 bump-fire right now in the US. They're on 4 week back-order apparently.
Gun sales....ammunition sales, and gun accessory sales skyrocket post public massacres.
If conspiracy nut-jobs and "false flag orchestration" theorists want to ever be taken seriously, they may be feverishly looking blindly in the wrong direction.
Both sides of the "politics" of it all goes immediately to their emotions and fears.
Basically, both sides pounce/start yelling..
"We need to do some freaking thing about this!" goes the "left"
.
"They're going to take our guns away!" goes the "right".
But there's just no doubt whatsoever who quietly and even ghoulishly profits from the rivers of blood and fear of public massacres and threats to control or legislate even pointless reforms.
THE ARMS INDUSTRY!
For they are the winners in this......every time....without fail.
But no other single entity cashes in on the carnage of American citizens more than the arms/gun industry.
Try to buy a Fostech Defend AR-15 bump-fire right now in the US. They're on 4 week back-order apparently.
Gun sales....ammunition sales, and gun accessory sales skyrocket post public massacres.
If conspiracy nut-jobs and "false flag orchestration" theorists want to ever be taken seriously, they may be feverishly looking blindly in the wrong direction.
Both sides of the "politics" of it all goes immediately to their emotions and fears.
Basically, both sides pounce/start yelling..
"We need to do some freaking thing about this!" goes the "left"
.
"They're going to take our guns away!" goes the "right".
But there's just no doubt whatsoever who quietly and even ghoulishly profits from the rivers of blood and fear of public massacres and threats to control or legislate even pointless reforms.
THE ARMS INDUSTRY!
For they are the winners in this......every time....without fail.
Also Murren, CEO of MGM dumped 90% of his shares in the hotel few months ago ?
and just like nein elven, you see the deep dip sell off just before event , , ,
and just like nein elven, you see the deep dip sell off just before event , , ,
i don't think they should, just speculating what might happen in the court system
i was thinking about the amount of guns hauled up there, and how it had to be visible
but others have posted that this was not that unusual in Las Vegas, lots of gun shows, dealers and the like
Gypsy, comparing the history of North America (specifically USA) to that of Europe/Western Civilization is rather difficult....if not impossible.
About 180 years ago this is what "civilized" USA looked like:
Guns were required to go west. And then, we have that awful chapter in our history where Indians lost all their gains and relocated in "Indian Territories" (mostly what is now called Oklahoma)..as depicted in this map from 1890 (about 127 years ago)
The wild west, especially what is depicted in movies (Doc Holiday, Wyatt Earp, Gunfight at OK Corral, etc) is lifted from actual life in the Arizona Territory (1863-1907...about 110 years ago). Arizona became a state in 1912...105 years ago.
During this time, guns were needed to settle disputes (lack of law enforcement), protect life and property, and just to "exist" another day....you might say guns are part of American DNA.
Now, let's compare Europe...anyone know when the last "unsettled land" (aka territory) in Europe became a nation state? Many, many moons ago...perhaps centuries.
United Kingdom gun control laws are rather recent: 1870, 1903, 1920, 1937, 1968, 1988 & 1997...some predating the settlement of certain "territories" that later became "states" in the US.
USA is centuries behind the Western Civilized World when it comes to "maturity"....I hope this puts a few things in perspective.
About 180 years ago this is what "civilized" USA looked like:
Guns were required to go west. And then, we have that awful chapter in our history where Indians lost all their gains and relocated in "Indian Territories" (mostly what is now called Oklahoma)..as depicted in this map from 1890 (about 127 years ago)
The wild west, especially what is depicted in movies (Doc Holiday, Wyatt Earp, Gunfight at OK Corral, etc) is lifted from actual life in the Arizona Territory (1863-1907...about 110 years ago). Arizona became a state in 1912...105 years ago.
During this time, guns were needed to settle disputes (lack of law enforcement), protect life and property, and just to "exist" another day....you might say guns are part of American DNA.
Now, let's compare Europe...anyone know when the last "unsettled land" (aka territory) in Europe became a nation state? Many, many moons ago...perhaps centuries.
United Kingdom gun control laws are rather recent: 1870, 1903, 1920, 1937, 1968, 1988 & 1997...some predating the settlement of certain "territories" that later became "states" in the US.
USA is centuries behind the Western Civilized World when it comes to "maturity"....I hope this puts a few things in perspective.
Hey DocTim420, nice post.
I was near top of the class in history at school, (although I left when I was 15/16 years old) so am fairly well clued in with N.American history over the past few hundred years.
So I do have quite a good understanding of how all of that land was cleared and settled and secured with the aid of firearms.
Like I have said earlier in this thread I'm not about to get into a debate about if guns are good or bad, because it's not about the gun, it's about how and why they are used by people, particularly this recent killer in Vegas.
We are all volatile, and most all of us can act irresponsibly and emotionally over certain issues within our own lives. During these events anger can manifest itself into making actions to those around us that we may well regret later. If there is a gun, knife, car or any other weapon involved, that's when people can get seriously hurt and often killed.
Since guns are purpose built to kill/maim, when guns are prevalent and readily available at hand, people get hurt more often that when they are not. That is why we see so much more death and disaster thru gun shots in countries such as the USA where there are more guns than people in the hands of the people. Plus it makes it easier for those that purposefully commit crimes (robberies, kidnappings, murders etc) when guns are so easy to acquire.
Every day children get killed by guns in the USA, because of irresponsible parents/carers, who don't bother to keep their guns hidden away safely from a kids grasp. We rarely if ever see those sort of tragic accidents occurring in the UK, simply because there are hardly any guns about.
Growing up in England, I only ever saw just one shotgun when I was around 7 years old, and that was Mr Seniors who lived next door to my Grandma. He had a license to kill crows on farmers land, and I would often go with him to watch him do it, and once he even let me fire the weapon, under close supervision.
I was near top of the class in history at school, (although I left when I was 15/16 years old) so am fairly well clued in with N.American history over the past few hundred years.
So I do have quite a good understanding of how all of that land was cleared and settled and secured with the aid of firearms.
Like I have said earlier in this thread I'm not about to get into a debate about if guns are good or bad, because it's not about the gun, it's about how and why they are used by people, particularly this recent killer in Vegas.
We are all volatile, and most all of us can act irresponsibly and emotionally over certain issues within our own lives. During these events anger can manifest itself into making actions to those around us that we may well regret later. If there is a gun, knife, car or any other weapon involved, that's when people can get seriously hurt and often killed.
Since guns are purpose built to kill/maim, when guns are prevalent and readily available at hand, people get hurt more often that when they are not. That is why we see so much more death and disaster thru gun shots in countries such as the USA where there are more guns than people in the hands of the people. Plus it makes it easier for those that purposefully commit crimes (robberies, kidnappings, murders etc) when guns are so easy to acquire.
Every day children get killed by guns in the USA, because of irresponsible parents/carers, who don't bother to keep their guns hidden away safely from a kids grasp. We rarely if ever see those sort of tragic accidents occurring in the UK, simply because there are hardly any guns about.
Growing up in England, I only ever saw just one shotgun when I was around 7 years old, and that was Mr Seniors who lived next door to my Grandma. He had a license to kill crows on farmers land, and I would often go with him to watch him do it, and once he even let me fire the weapon, under close supervision.
Last edited:
Yep...the maturity of US will always lag the rest of the "civilized world". This is easily demonstrated by our own different experiences...of the same thing.
For my 8th birthday, my grandfather gave me 22 rifle, and the following summer I joined the Scouts/NRA gun education/safety program that met every other Saturday for almost 3 months at the Long Beach Police Pistol Range. When my parents were busy (about half the time) I would go by myself. I would leave the hose with my rifle slung over my shoulder and take buses to the shooting range.
Imagine, that. A time when a kid could board a bus carrying a rifle with bullets...without parental supervision, and everyone was OK with it; no SWAT team intervention...no hand wringing by politicians.
You saw your first shotgun at 7...I owned my first rifle at 8--and we are both "normal" (comparatively speaking....lol). But the idea of you walking to a bus stop with a rifle slung over your shoulder and then going to a shooting range...all by yourself at the age of 9, is something your brain was probably not wired to do. Whereas it was normal for me...lol.
Yep, USA always seems to be "immature" at many things...especially when viewed by "the rest of the world". Whereas, many of us "yanks" view the rest of the world as being more "stuffy" and steeped in "traditions"--like all that "pomp and circumstance" that is showered to the "royals" of each country.
But UK & US each have their own "thanksgiving day"; for US it is the 3rd Thursday in November and for UK it is July 4th.
For my 8th birthday, my grandfather gave me 22 rifle, and the following summer I joined the Scouts/NRA gun education/safety program that met every other Saturday for almost 3 months at the Long Beach Police Pistol Range. When my parents were busy (about half the time) I would go by myself. I would leave the hose with my rifle slung over my shoulder and take buses to the shooting range.
Imagine, that. A time when a kid could board a bus carrying a rifle with bullets...without parental supervision, and everyone was OK with it; no SWAT team intervention...no hand wringing by politicians.
You saw your first shotgun at 7...I owned my first rifle at 8--and we are both "normal" (comparatively speaking....lol). But the idea of you walking to a bus stop with a rifle slung over your shoulder and then going to a shooting range...all by yourself at the age of 9, is something your brain was probably not wired to do. Whereas it was normal for me...lol.
Yep, USA always seems to be "immature" at many things...especially when viewed by "the rest of the world". Whereas, many of us "yanks" view the rest of the world as being more "stuffy" and steeped in "traditions"--like all that "pomp and circumstance" that is showered to the "royals" of each country.
But UK & US each have their own "thanksgiving day"; for US it is the 3rd Thursday in November and for UK it is July 4th.
G `day DT
New Zealand and Australia are younger as nations .
Guns ; not a problem . Used for scaring people , rarely ever discharged .
Age of the nation is no excuse .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
i heard last night (yes, i listen to fake news, although, how to tell?) that the militia was needed to prevent any slave uprising.
and there were lots of native americans to kill, too ... manifest destiny, of course.
and there were lots of native americans to kill, too ... manifest destiny, of course.
Compared to South America, the US has a low rate of violent gun death.
20 per 100,000 vs 4 per 100,000.
UK, 0.07 per 1000,000.
I've lost more than a couple peeps to gun violence,
and it's not a pretty thing to behold.
A complex issue not likely solved through politics.
I can disagree with you and not kill you for the difference of opinion.
Simmer down, I say.
Strength through humility, pass it on.
20 per 100,000 vs 4 per 100,000.
UK, 0.07 per 1000,000.
I've lost more than a couple peeps to gun violence,
and it's not a pretty thing to behold.
A complex issue not likely solved through politics.
I can disagree with you and not kill you for the difference of opinion.
Simmer down, I say.
Strength through humility, pass it on.
But when people are confronted to gun then they talk differently...
humility dissapears.. and a rage cause you dont have a gun to protect self emerge..
if you have bully infront of you best thing is to bully him..
that will save your life in lot of cases if you prepared self.. otherway police will walk around whith no guns..
they will have Bible and try to convince bad guys its a big no no to threat with knifes and guns to civilians..
Reality is different than virtual World we are now.. and no matter how good you are
its not bad to protect self.
humility dissapears.. and a rage cause you dont have a gun to protect self emerge..
if you have bully infront of you best thing is to bully him..
that will save your life in lot of cases if you prepared self.. otherway police will walk around whith no guns..
they will have Bible and try to convince bad guys its a big no no to threat with knifes and guns to civilians..
Reality is different than virtual World we are now.. and no matter how good you are
its not bad to protect self.
W
Water-
Don't forget the media. They also benefit greatly.
They are also the ones feeding these people's minds with the idea of how they can become famous.
I think these people feel invisible and hate humanity for it. I think guns are used because their sick minds where fed the idea. There are many ways to kill large amounts of people if you think about it.
I think these mass shooting s are a manifestation of the television and media ability to manipulate disturbed minds.
The end goal is to get people to voluntarily give up their guns in the name of "security"
Fuk that , guns are security n I want my security in my hands... ppl are gonna get guns to commit crimes regardless of the law so why take my guns away so I can't shoot the sob when trespassing on my property . Banning guns ain't gonna do shit but make it easier for ppl with them to take advantage . Thieves, cops all the same ... The 2nd amendment is what makes America great... they can make whatever laws they want but I'm gonna stay safe... just like when I was in ny I'll do the 5 yrs for the pistol no problem much better then option 2 not having it n needing it..it could be a death sentence not having it...
Gypsy said it perfectly. Conspiracy maybe but no lie the gun makers are getting paid...
Gypsy said it perfectly. Conspiracy maybe but no lie the gun makers are getting paid...
- Status
