Las Vegas

[GMT]

OK, after reading my feedback on my posts in this thread, I want to make some concessions.
I'm not against all Americans. Just the fact that the most commonly owned gun model in the USA, (source daily mail so maybe bull shit) is a rifle that is considered accurate up to 1500 feet. Now if you're walking around new York with one of those, and say 300 bullets, the old self defense argument, seems a little far fetched. If you're a little old lady on the verge of dementure, driving is a bad idea, carrying a concealed gun, may be a terrible one. If you're a psychopath with an obsession with weapons, then it may not be a protection for the american people ( from queen Elizabeth deciding she wants to take america back) that you own a semi automatic assault rifle.
I'm not saying these things to offend Americans at all, some of you are rational people behind enemy lines, but the laws that are taken for granted seem to have been obsoleted by the progression of firearms technology. As technology advances, so too must the laws governing its use.

 

[packerfan79]

OK, after reading my feedback on my posts in this thread, I want to make some concessions.
I'm not against all Americans. Just the fact that the most commonly owned gun model in the USA, (source daily mail so maybe bull shit) is a rifle that is considered accurate up to 1500 feet. Now if you're walking around new York with one of those, and say 300 bullets, the old self defense argument, seems a little far fetched. If you're a little old lady on the verge of dementure, driving is a bad idea, carrying a concealed gun, may be a terrible one. If you're a psychopath with an obsession with weapons, then it may not be a protection for the american people ( from queen Elizabeth deciding she wants to take america back) that you own a semi automatic assault rifle.
I'm not saying these things to offend Americans at all, some of you are rational people behind enemy lines, but the laws that are taken for granted seem to have been obsoleted by the progression of firearms technology. As technology advances, so too must the laws governing its use.

It's not the "laws" it's God given "rights." As far as any nation including Queen Elizabeth, I f@#king dare any idiotic nation to think they will make war on American soil. Neither the Japanese or the NAZIS thought it was a good idea, we have the most advanced military ever known to man.we have more weaponry than most of the nation's combined. We haven't faught a real war where we can actually show, what we can do. This doesn't include the civilians who would fight to the bitter end for this nation.

Europeans may not think we deserve our God given rights outlined in the bill of rights. That's fine but try to set foot on our soil and try to dismantle the freedom we have and you will see why they are still in place. So far no one has been stupid enough to try.

 

[packerfan79]

G `day PF

Where does that leave the atheists ? LOL .

False flag guys . Dude shoots for an hour at 25 000 people hits 1.5 % of them . He didn`t want to kill any more ...
Just heighten the drama . So the narrative can be sold to the masses .

Ever since the Manhattan project the US Gov has been scheming schemes and not telling its people . Built a nuclear bomb that the vice president [Trueman ] didn`t even know about . Anything is possible in those circumstances .



Thanks for sharin

EB .

They are rights for all American citizens, wether you believe in God or not.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I think Bruce Cockburn of Ontario Canada summed it up in 1973, on the 'Night Visions' Lp (which my now-deceased sister gave me a copy of in 33-1/3 rpm vinyl Lp format in 1973, which I still have.

'The Blues Got the World by the Balls'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjuriwfPiI

You've got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In Between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

(To illustrate his last remark)
(Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark)
(What did they do)
(Just when everything looked so dark)

Man, they said we better
Ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In Between
No, do not mess with Mister In Between
Do you hear me, hmm

(Oh, listen to me child'in and a-you will hear)
(About the eliminating of the negative)
(And the accent on the positive)

And gather round me children if you willing
And sit tight while I start reviewing
The attitude of doing right

(You gotta ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive)
(Eliminate the negative)
(Latch on to the affirmative)
(Don't mess with Mister In Between)

You got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
Bring gloom down to the minimum, (then)
Otherwise, (otherwise)
Pandemonium liable to walk upon the scene

(To illustrate) Well illustrate
(My last remark) You got the floor
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
(What did they say) What did they say
(Say, when everything looked so dark)

Man, they said we better
Ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In Between
No, don't mess with Mister In Between

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qk9o_ZeR7s

 

[Green Squall]

OK ignore guns good/ guns bad. Could you gun lovers agree that there should be a blood test on gun permit applications to prevent sociopaths/psychopaths owning them?

What do you mean blood tests? You don't think mental illness can be diagnosed through blood, do you?

 

[GMT]

Oh in that case then, god owes quite a lot in compensation payouts.
I suppose it was Santa who gave america the nukes.

 

[GMT]

Green squall, yes sociopaths/ psychos can be identified by blood tests. Its a genetic inheritance that prevents the part of the brain responsible for compassion, empathy, guilt or fear from ever developing. Its not mental illness, its an inherited deformation in the brain.

 

[moose eater]

OK, after reading my feedback on my posts in this thread, I want to make some concessions.
I'm not against all Americans. Just the fact that the most commonly owned gun model in the USA, (source daily mail so maybe bull shit) is a rifle that is considered accurate up to 1500 feet. Now if you're walking around new York with one of those, and say 300 bullets, the old self defense argument, seems a little far fetched. If you're a little old lady on the verge of dementure, driving is a bad idea, carrying a concealed gun, may be a terrible one. If you're a psychopath with an obsession with weapons, then it may not be a protection for the american people ( from queen Elizabeth deciding she wants to take america back) that you own a semi automatic assault rifle.
I'm not saying these things to offend Americans at all, some of you are rational people behind enemy lines, but the laws that are taken for granted seem to have been obsoleted by the progression of firearms technology. As technology advances, so too must the laws governing its use.

My Country/Government preaches peace, world-wide and otherwise. But when ever there's an uprising, disgruntlement, or even large crowds assembled in protest, whether Internationally or domestically.... we/they tend to send folks with guns, clubs, and chemicals.

What's the real message in this? Aside from the typical differences among humanity between what we say (idealism), and what we do (reality)?

My days of fondling a licensed class III machinegun or sub-machinegun as though it were a favorite puppy, are long gone now. The infatuation subsided, and the Zen reality that the things we hold to perhaps make us safe, may one day be the things that are used to justify our end. Thereby, all of my federally licensed select-fire/full-auto weaponry were sold around 1997.

I've done about 37 years of sometimes very conflict-producing activism, complete with death threats in the mail box and on hang-up calls with numbers blocked. Cowards one and all, but you rarely know who you're dealing with.

I raised several kids through those years (who saw enough big game animals, moose, caribou, etc.) come home in bloody bags with graphic entrance and exit wounds that they didn't need to engage in t.v. fantasy about people surviving such blows; they knew the reality, as it was on the kitchen table. For just -that- reason, they were far safer around a loaded firearm than many of their friends raised by more squeamish parents. They had first-hand knowledge and the accompanying respect.

I still carry when I leave home, and have such tools available in the home. They're made safe when others' children visit our remaining child who's still living at home. The thought of an accidental shooting, involving my kid or someone else's, causes my heart to miss a beat.

Years ago, I've had numerous occasions I could've legally squeezed, and chose to lecture instead, more irritated that the person had put me in a position to have to choose whether to take a life or not (*That truly pissed me off, big time! In one event, I was enjoying intimate moments with my ex-wife, mid-day, then abruptly having to address an intruder in the home).

In my neck of the woods, where guns are prominent (sporting rifles, 'assault weapons', handguns for town, handguns for the bush/out-back, etc.) had I drawn a weapon in another poster's previously described scenarios, I'd have been subject to prosecution. (*I can explain the letter of the law here where that's concerned, but I'll abstain).

Re. the modern weaponry argument, I understand that. But the Sons of Liberty (a minority group of mostly businessmen in the Colonies) had access to the very same weapons the King's men had; often stolen from them, in fact. And the Founders, aside from obvious hypocrisies they themselves wrote of, included phrases such as "both foreign and domestic," writing even back then of persons within their own ranks who would try to abuse the framework they were forming, for their own ends.

Gun violence in the U.S. is distantly, metaphorically akin to moments of chaos in a kindergarten class room; the few that can't sit peaceably with their milk and graham cracker will eventually cause story-time and napping to be impacted negatively for those who were enjoying such things.

Until we evolve to value lives of others as much as our own.

 

[moose eater]

A favorite old-time (stoner) tune from years back, I believe also done by Mr. Cockburn as well as others;

'Always Look on the Bright Side of Life'..

for which there are numerous ad hoc verses added later through the years, making the pointed contrast in our existence even more humorous. ;^>)

You may be familiar with it? I especially like the verses that are simply whistling to the melody.

You've got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In Between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

(To illustrate his last remark)
(Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark)
(What did they do)
(Just when everything looked so dark)

Man, they said we better
Ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In Between
No, do not mess with Mister In Between
Do you hear me, hmm

(Oh, listen to me child'in and a-you will hear)
(About the eliminating of the negative)
(And the accent on the positive)

And gather round me children if you willing
And sit tight while I start reviewing
The attitude of doing right

(You gotta ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive)
(Eliminate the negative)
(Latch on to the affirmative)
(Don't mess with Mister In Between)

You got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
Bring gloom down to the minimum, (then)
Otherwise, (otherwise)
Pandemonium liable to walk upon the scene

(To illustrate) Well illustrate
(My last remark) You got the floor
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
(What did they say) What did they say
(Say, when everything looked so dark)

Man, they said we better
Ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In Between
No, don't mess with Mister In Between

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qk9o_ZeR7s

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

OK, after reading my feedback on my posts in this thread, I want to make some concessions.
I'm not against all Americans. Just the fact that the most commonly owned gun model in the USA, (source daily mail so maybe bull shit) is a rifle that is considered accurate up to 1500 feet. Now if you're walking around new York with one of those, and say 300 bullets, the old self defense argument, seems a little far fetched. If you're a little old lady on the verge of dementure, driving is a bad idea, carrying a concealed gun, may be a terrible one. If you're a psychopath with an obsession with weapons, then it may not be a protection for the american people ( from queen Elizabeth deciding she wants to take america back) that you own a semi automatic assault rifle.
I'm not saying these things to offend Americans at all, some of you are rational people behind enemy lines, but the laws that are taken for granted seem to have been obsoleted by the progression of firearms technology. As technology advances, so too must the laws governing its use.

I guess that in some respects, what you say makes sense since the The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

....and when that was made about 250 years ago or so the only firearm you could get hold of was a MUSKET, that you had to load for each shot....They didn't have full-auto machine guns back then.

I wonder how far that killer in Vegas would have got firing a musket from the Mandalay Bay hotel?

 

[Green Squall]

I guess that in some respects, what you say makes sense since the The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

....and when that was made about 250 years ago or so the only firearm you could get hold of was a MUSKET, that you had to load for each shot....They didn't have full-auto machine guns back then.

I wonder how far that killer in Vegas would have got firing a musket from the Mandalay Bay hotel?

Actually Gypsy, there were so called "assault weapons" back during the Revolutionary war. The Belton Flintlock for example. It could fire 20 rounds in around 5 second with one pull of the trigger.

Or the Girandoni rifle, where a 22 high capacity round magazine accurately could be fired within 30 seconds created during the revolutionary war which was later used by Thomas Jefferson to famously outfit the Lewis and Clark expedition.

The Founding Fathers saw weaponry advance greatly over their lifetime and had to have known that it would continue improve while writing the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Guns 1791.....I googled it and:

'Given that most muskets and rifles of that era fired .70 calibre balls (any cartridge above .50 is banned in the U.S. today), cavalry officers hacked heads and limbs off of opponents with eight pound sabers, and cannons pulverized whole columns of men with grapeshot and exploding shells, I think most of our founding fathers would be shocked by the precision and focus of modern weapons. I'm not sure how a scabbard constitutes a weapon, but never mind.

The most advanced weapon at that time would probably have been either the Kentucky long rifle, capable of firing two or three .60 balls per minute out to an accurate range of 300 yards, or the 6-pound field gun, which could fire a variety of projectiles 1500 yards, usually one shot every two minutes.

Of course, today we think of cannons and howitzers as purely state-owned military hardware, but in the 1600 and 1700s, many artillery companies were privately owned and operated, like the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts, or the Artillery Company of Newport. The groups were folded into the Continental army like all militia divisions, but at the time of their founding (and after the war), they were just private citizens who maintained the guns themselves, like a volunteer fire brigade.'

Hmmm....I don't think that the founding Fathers realized the devastation a modern AK47 could do with a 200 round drum magazine attached.

....well, it's all very interesting, and I must say that I have learned a lot today. Thank you all for participating in this thread.

Then a question popped up in my mind. If you have the right to bear arms, then why can't you all have a tactical nuclear weapon in your loft ready to go?

It may sound like a silly question, but how far does that right go?.....how far should it go?

 

[Elmer Bud]

It's not the "laws" it's God given "rights." As far as any nation including Queen Elizabeth, I f@#king dare any idiotic nation to think they will make war on American soil. Neither the Japanese or the NAZIS thought it was a good idea, we have the most advanced military ever known to man.we have more weaponry than most of the nation's combined. We haven't faught a real war where we can actually show, what we can do. This doesn't include the civilians who would fight to the bitter end for this nation.

Europeans may not think we deserve our God given rights outlined in the bill of rights. That's fine but try to set foot on our soil and try to dismantle the freedom we have and you will see why they are still in place. So far no one has been stupid enough to try.

G `day PF

If US military is so superior at home .
Why does it go so wrong when the US wages war in foreign countries ?

You also realise its cheaper to pay a hacker to steal technologies than it is to develop them yourself ?

Just like the era of the British Empire came to an end . So will the era of the US empire .

Though the world moves faster these days .

I remember learning at Sunday School . The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Eh....Elmer, I think that we are getting a tad off topic here.

This is not a thread about the rise and fall of empires,...It's about what happened in Vegas this week, and why.

 

[moose eater]

G `day PF

If US military is so superior at home .
Why does it go so wrong when the US wages war in foreign countries ?

You also realise its cheaper to pay a hacker to steal technologies than it is to develop them yourself ?

Just like the era of the British Empire came to an end . So will the era of the US empire .

Though the world moves faster these days .

I remember learning at Sunday School . The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Chris Hedges just published an article the other day (available on-line) entitled 'The End of Empire,' or very close to that.

Re. God-given rights, many/some of the Founders were Deists, opposed to puritanical dogma, doctrine and religion; to some extent, Agnostic-lite with a leaning toward there being a Supreme Entity, but one they couldn't factually, scientifically define.

I fall fairly staunchly into the Agnostic camp, and view basic human rights, including self-defense, speech, the right to put down tyranny, etc., as 'birth rights' possessed by ALL persons, regardless of citizenship. nationality, etc.

I think the trouble arises when one person or group believes their birth-rights trump another's birth-rights. Manifest destiny, whether in days of old, or under a new name today.

Such a sense of superiority or entitlement contributes to the sort of violence in Vegas, as well as elsewhere, whether systemic or individual.

 

[Leaf Eater]

If US military is so superior at home .
Why does it go so wrong when the US wages war in foreign countries ?
EB .

There is big money in war, no money in ending war. If they wanted to they could end most wars very quickly even without a nuke.
USA has had a lazer weapon since the 90's speculation is tesla may have invented it
Ooops back to the topic at hand

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes, lets try and keep this thread on track....it's such a chore to have to keep deleting stuff that just takes us away from the main topic.

 

[944s2]

It has been proven when most people are believed to be armed, car jackings and mugging decrease.
I know I would think twice about jackin' a car in a state that most people are packin'.
How about you?

How would you feel about kicking in a door to rob a house you know is loaded with guns?
Would you feel the same if you could be sure there were no guns in the house, but you got yourself a gun from a cartel.

In UK there are cameras watching cameras watching people, facial recognition, and more.
I believe the UK has more cameras than any other country.

Hey Shaggy B,,
i might be wrong but i believe that its London that has the greatest number of cctv cameras of any city in the world,,s2

 

[Thcvhunter]

False-Flag

Same M.O. the SF uses around the world to discredit and silince (talking about staging a suicide).

I have a lot of exposure to different weapons and calibers.
The shootings were mostly 7.62 aka .308.
I, and my military buddies, hear multiple weapons at the same time. We can also hear a good distance between the shooters (equivalent to the distance between the lower floors at the center of the hotel and the upper floors at tha sida of the hotel).

This shooting coincides with legislation that was being heard to allow things like suppressors and lifting or relaxing the assault rifle ban.

Motives:
1) to ensure that the populace does not have guns. To ensure that only the Elite and their hired criminals are armed.
2) Sunday human sacrifice. You'll find a lot of them throughout history). Look into the association between a sacrifice in front of the Pyramid in Vegas and those rituals of Sun Sacrifice throughout history.

Its been ~15 years since the last big blood sacrifice (9/11) but there have been a number of smaller offerings (Boston Bombing)

 

[GMT]

I'm not convinced that a guy who decides to kill himself, but is so angry with the world that he does it in such a manner, would have been deterred by CCTV cameras being in the area. They are more for car speeders, muggers, street dealers and shop lifters. Mass murdering suicidal nutjobs are less concerned about Leo having evidence of their guilt.

Edit: I'm also not convinced that 9/11 was really a sacrifice to Ra.