Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?

[romanoweed]

I didnt read it trough but the title says it already. We had strong Plants in 1970, yes, and it seems to have been used for thousands years, yes, but this doesent mean that it needed 1000 years of breeding to become that strong. Does also not say that it doesent need 1000 years of breeding. Look:

this exceptional discovery made at Jirzankal, also offers the first direct evidence that men inhaled cannabis smoke burned to enjoy its psychoactive effects


"The origins of cannabis smoking: Chemical residue evidence from the first millennium BCE in the Pamirs"

Abstract

The archaeological evidence for ritualized consumption of cannabis is limited and contentious. Here, we present some of the earliest directly dated and scientifically verified evidence for ritual cannabis smoking. This phytochemical analysis indicates that cannabis plants were burned in wooden braziers during mortuary ceremonies at the Jirzankal Cemetery (ca. 500 BCE) in the eastern Pamirs region. This suggests cannabis was smoked as part of ritual and/or religious activities in western China by at least 2500 years ago and that the cannabis plants produced high levels of psychoactive compounds.


https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaaw1391

 

[grayeyes]

Ok, this goes back a ways in this thread but can someone tell me what "Yuewell" is?

 

[romanoweed]

grayeyes yuwell, or gemstone i use for : pheno, with a certain DEGREE of desired effect. Not just a Pheno with certain effects, no.rather the phenos wich are like LEGENDARY 70s weed, midblowing, strong like mushroom-trip or stronger.
Or a entire Line i call Yuwell/Gemstone too if it has atleast the Potential of holding Phenos like closer described here .

 

[funkyhorse]

Paraguayan Sativa 80's was a very special strain. The old brick produced amazing fermenting results resulting in a kind of ganja that would get you very high and laughing with just 3 tokes of a needle joint
Has it been kept/saved by any preservationist or is it lost?



This is Pedro Juan Caballero today. This is a recently busted plantation is 5 kms away from a DEA base, you can clearly see what is being grown today:


https://www.infobae.com/fotos/2019/...-100-fotos-de-la-megaplantacion-por-dentro-2/

 

[TychoMonolyth]

Paraguayan Sativa 80's was a very special strain. The old brick produced amazing fermenting results resulting in a kind of ganja that would get you very high and laughing with just 3 tokes of a needle joint
Has it been kept/saved by any preservationist or is it lost?



This is Pedro Juan Caballero today. This is a recently busted plantation is 5 kms away from a DEA base, you can clearly see what is being grown today:


https://www.infobae.com/fotos/2019/...-100-fotos-de-la-megaplantacion-por-dentro-2/

Now i have to visit Paraguay

 

[Cuzin_Dave]

North Americans haven't been smoking imported cannabis since the late 1970's. It is impossible to conceive of a way back. Cannabis really no longer follows any breeding standards or normal sexual reproduction. Virtually anyone with genetically unstable clones and some beer cups is making feminised seeds. The art and science of plant breeding for cannabis died a way long time ago.

 

[yesum]

I have some Michoacan from Snow that is identical to what I had in '75, so there is that. There are many strains that are close or right at what was around in the 70's. Some are gone for sure.

I find it strange that Skunk is regarded as lost. That was a 80's strain though some think it went back to the 60's. Not until sometime in the 90's did OG Kush and others become more desirable. Cloning was being done and seed storage was understood.

Most of the old lines are still where they originated, but not being exported full of seeds like it used to be. All those seeds thrown away..... You would have to go the area and be patient and lucky, try to get to know the locals and see if they want to share. Maybe pay a lot too.

 

[Water-]

North Americans haven't been smoking imported cannabis since the late 1970's. It is impossible to conceive of a way back. Cannabis really no longer follows any breeding standards or normal sexual reproduction. Virtually anyone with genetically unstable clones and some beer cups is making feminised seeds. The art and science of plant breeding for cannabis died a way long time ago.

I have a friend that was still getting kilos of mexi up until 2005 and its still out there

 

[ahortator]

Ladang ganja Aceh. Three months ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgCvIo9PQd0

 

[yesum]

^^ Those plants were all being burned. What a bunch of goons.

 

[romanoweed]

If one would inhaled a deep Cloud of it he might have overdosed,in therms of passing out and landing in Nirvana. Indonesia Nirvana?
I think the secound man from right from where my linked Video starts was on the Road to it: https://youtu.be/mgCvIo9PQd0?t=756

I think its quiet a undegraded Genetic in this Field.. Just guess from the Look .

 

[ahortator]

They are videos from police. Indonesian growers usually don't upload videos showing what they grow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htu8RI-mWq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98cHPpmkyEw

 

[romanoweed]

Tell ahortator
Are the Genetics in Indonesia still undegraded, or is it getting rare? Is it still used from the wise Man for medication.. ? Looks pretty thin and pure. Very nice video gives me hope and takes me into my dreamstate.. Many of the 3-Hit wonders around??

cool:
https://youtu.be/LvbpIv03JWE?t=252

 

[funkyhorse]

Pedro Juan Caballero, Paraguay, the biggest producer of marihuana in South America and probably in the world, the most underrated ganja in history. After Fumo da Lata, brazilians dealers didnt go to Colombia, instead they went to Paraguay for top quality marihuana matching Fumo da Lata.

30 years ago, paraguayan brick was a 3 toke wonder. Today the magic is gone, same thing happens in Sumatra and other places in the world


This is a documentary of an argentinian tv news channel. Similar to their indonesian counterparts and trained and supported by DEA, the paraguayan army also likes to show off for the TV screens, action starts on minute 9:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7JgUxgyQk4

 

[Cuzin_Dave]

Not sure about the way back. There is an enormous number of so called breeders with huge numbers of strains. Often these creations are made from one or two plants. A seed line that bottlenecked is almost impossible to improve due to lack genetic diversity. Given the relative relaxation of the cannabis laws one would figure cannabis would be bred like any other plant in the garden. It is difficult to find signs of people doing anything resembling serious breeding.

 

[ahortator]

Tell ahortator
Are the Genetics in Indonesia still undegraded, or is it getting rare? Is it still used from the wise Man for medication.. ? Looks pretty thin and pure. Very nice video gives me hope and takes me into my dreamstate.. Many of the 3-Hit wonders around??

cool:
https://youtu.be/LvbpIv03JWE?t=252

Hello.

I have never been in Indonesia. Simply someone in other forum gave me seeds which a friend of him got there. They are difficult to grow due to they are very powdery mildew prone, all the plants are intersexed and the worst thing: seeds refuse to sprout. All in all the high is really great. If your tolerance is low, perhaps they are not a one hit killer, o 3 hits, but a pin join can do serious damage to you mental health for a good while But I grow 36ºN in a shaded place. I suspect if I would be able to grow them under full sun the high would be much better. I wonder how it could be grown at the equatorial line. But along the problems I told before, the buds are very thin and airy, once dried the resin becomes almost invisible, and the smell is weak but fruity. So modern tokers reject this before even they smoke it.

About if they are undegraded. If you look for "landang ganja Aceh" (Aceh ganja field) you will find cops busting fields and most plants still look the actual old landrace. But it is said modern hybrids are arriving and they are currently being grown around Lake Toba, a pity because weed there was regarded as the best along Aceh. There are also bustings in Papua with pics of really tall plants. Sadly I haven't been able to stablish contact by internet with local people to get seeds from there or swap some seed for any other interesting thing for them (of course I am not going to send there hybrid seeds) like big tomatoes. But it is like Mexico, all the people you can get in contact by internet are only kids asking for modern hybrid seeds and strongly unwilling to send you their heirloom seeds.

"Ladang ganja di Papua" <Ganja field of (West) Papua>. It seems to me they have placed properly several plants together in order to make them look like a huge plant. However the plants are big.

https://rakyatindependen.co.id/kali...-qy-temukan-ladang-ganja-di-perbatasan-papua/

https://kabarpapua.co/kembali-patroli-tni-temukan-ladang-ganja-di-perbatasan-ri-png/

 

[romanoweed]

It seems People often think Landraces Gems are so good cause of inbreeding. I dont say no to it, but how likely is it that Ancient People was able to inbreed Things so much better than we now? Can you imagine, our professional Food-Plant Biologist arent able to produce Gemstone-Tomatos today (i hear them saying they wish more Landracematerial to be alive, same as we). Or is it more likely that Landraces was healty Plants, a Result out of direct Fresh wild Material to a certain Extend? And same Time where actually not inbreed, whether inbreed after its assumed combination of high Numbers of Wild plants, or a Inbreed Line of a single Wild Plant for Decades or Centuries long after it? So they werent selected, but just healthy Imput-Material.

As i understand it, and seem to hear, i understand that nobody today has ever taken a degraded Thai, wich was weak like Hay and has substencially created the Landracyness inside it.
Often people might think, the ancietn people just did this for longer time, and therefore did it better. Wich is a possible Explonation for our Failure, or illegal Restrictions, may aswell.

So, bouth is possible, i dont wanna claim to know, but i rather tend to think its the use of direct fresh wild Material. Atleast this idea was never studied, to my Knowledge. I just kind of imagine that Scenario, and also imagine good breeders, to just having the Word for very long time, telling about their Suxxes in Inbreeding. But who are we to believe them since i have first to see one of these showing me that he substentionally created a Gemstone Thai out of a weak Hay Thai Plant . Have i missed such a positive Story reported? So i rather believe not the modern Breeding science, nor the old Peoples been very intelligent. I rather dont believe anything. I cant get really strong Indices. Therefore i have my own View...
Well you could call my View standing on soft Indices, Associations, or rather standing on a blurry Picture, telling the Words: Land, like Nature/wild, or in Opposite not telling of Global Trade trough and trough, atleast not like modern Crisscross, rather teling of very Indiggene Tribes, quiet remote, so: Regionality.

So,combined i call it: rather regional wild Plants. If these Regional wild Plants are then combined , or choosen in high or small Numbers , Big meaning no selection, small meaning very strong selected (selected could mean Improvement here, but also rather founding), or if these are then inter-crossed after that in very distinct Combinations, or rather not needing this special Combinations, and rather need the initial high-Numbers of Collection, wich creates improvement trough simple Accumulation after that, that i cant really make ot in this blurry View.

Or if its just no Combinations at all, and just picking up a simple Wild Plant, one out of a million, then held alive trough Inbreeding or so...
Or if its one of these Scenarios , with the need o inbreeding troung indigene People.. I cant make that out in my blurry Picture

 

[Cuzin_Dave]

Landraces are not uniformly the same. One has to remember that these seed lines come from larger effective breeding populations so there is considerable genetic diversity. Mostly the environmental conditions and not human intervention will determine the most favorable phenotype at any one time. Commercial hybrid cannabis plants are bred by humans and often times come from a very small effective breeding populations. The selection criteria is almost always Yield, potency and speed of growth. It becomes a monoculture like most things in commercially dominated markets.

 

[romanoweed]

One Thing i have to add, the Regional Aspect of my View could fool, it could well be that an important Factor was a rather far Exchange of Genetics, like said its a blurry Picture, but still the Regional Look of that Picture is a bit stronger.

 

[romanoweed]

Cuzin Dave, yes, this is a possibility. It says that Landrace could been nature Made, and (and this it wants it says expliceit) could be Manmade, but guided, or call it dictated by Nature. Thats why i relativated my earlier Post telling: why does every Regions Landrace look the same like their regional Wild plants, since when it could be that Natures Influence might be an important ingredient in creating what one Person desires in consideration one Person likes all say Africans, but none of Himalayans , and then one comes to the conclusion man was an important Factor in delivering his desired African?.
Funny, i actually dont even know if a regions wild Plants really look sameish, but i just made the Construct.


So bouth might be a very important Factor , Humans, or Wilderness shaping the Style of Landraces