LA To Rush Vote on Medical Pot Law

[Blue Dot]

All use is Justified...

All use may be justified but if your brother with stress would rather have the money then the pot then it's not really that legit is it?

I"m sure there are times when your brother with AIDS cannot eat because of nausea and if someone said they would buy his pot from him for a profit to him I'm sure he would rather keep the pot so he could eat and SURVIVE.

That's my point, is stress and ingrown toenails REALLY justified if they are so willing to sell it when there are legit people out there who NEED it and would not sell it for all the tea in china cause they need it to survive?

My point was that the ones who NEED it are the minority and the ones who can do with or without it or the majority and we should base our laws AND the price od pot on the ones who NEED it, not the ones who can do with or without it.

And here's the thing. If no one really NEEDS it, then the opponents are right and 215 is really just one big scam.

 

[zenoonez]

All use may be justified but if your brother with stress would rather have the money then the pot then it's not really that legit is it?

I"m sure there are times when your brother with AIDS cannot eat because of nausea and if someone said they would buy his pot from him for a profit to him I'm sure he would rather keep the pot so he could eat and SURVIVE.

That's my point, is stress and ingrown toenails REALLY justified if they are so willing to sell it when there are legit people out there who NEED it and would not sell it for all the tea in china cause they need it to survive?

My point was that the ones who NEED it are the minority and the ones who can do with or without it or the majority and we should base our laws AND the price od pot on the ones who NEED it, not the ones who can do with or without it.

People make hard choices all the time. I mean if you have to sell your car to feed your kids was the car not important? I am sure that you have robbed Peter to pay Paul at least once in your life. If you haven't consider yourself lucky to have never had to. Whether you need it or not has no impact on price and shouldn't. If you are dying and you roll up in your benz to pick up your herb you don't need a discount so pay the club prices. If you need herb and you can't even pay to keep your bills current thats another story and perhaps a supplier can work with you on it but again, that is a decision worked out between the patient and the supplier.

 

[kmk420kali]

And here's the thing. If no one really NEEDS it, then the opponents are right and 215 is really just one big scam.

Dude...I really have enjoyed all our discussions and debates..but this is getting fucking crazy--
If you think that...you are one of "Them"--
There is no "SCAM"...legalize pot!! Bitches!!

 

[Blue Dot]

If you are dying and you roll up in your benz to pick up your herb you don't need a discount so pay the club prices. If you need herb and you can't even pay to keep your bills current thats another story and perhaps a supplier can work with you on it but again, that is a decision worked out between the patient and the supplier.

And that leaves the 99% in between where exactly?

 

[Blue Dot]

Dude...I really have enjoyed all our discussions and debates..but this is getting fucking crazy--
If you think that...you are one of "Them"--
There is no "SCAM"...legalize pot!! Bitches!!

Jim, I'm all for legalization. lets just get that out of the way.

I'm confused by the "Them" comment.

i suffer from cluster headaches, wiki it if you don't know.

If I'm having a cluster headache and I had the oppurtunity to sell you my pot for double I wouldn't because the profit is not as great as the pain.

No amount of profit would be.

BTW. I suffer from stress also, WE ALL DO.

 

[zenoonez]

And that leaves the 99% in between where exactly?

If you can pay you do pay. If you can't you damn well better be able to prove that you can't. People paying less than advertised price should be few and far between. Again I will say it, if you don't want to pay dispensary prices find a collective that suits your price point.

 

[zenoonez]

Jim, I'm all for legalization. lets just get that out of the way.

I'm confused by the "Them" comment.

i suffer from cluster headaches, wiki it if you don't know.

If I'm having a cluster headache and I had the oppurtunity to sell you my pot for double I wouldn't because the profit is not as great as the pain.

No amount of profit would be.

BTW. I suffer from stress also, WE ALL DO.

I would curl up in a ball of pain for a couple of days for a couple million.

 

[Blue Dot]

If you can pay you do pay. If you can't you damn well better be able to prove that you can't. People paying less than advertised price should be few and far between. Again I will say it, if you don't want to pay dispensary prices find a collective that suits your price point.

I'm confused, didn't you say you don't even live in cali or a non med state and you think you can just find a dispensary or even a collective that has the prices you want.

Are you crazy?

 

[richyrich]

This is a pot growing website. Most are here to learn how to grow and when they do, then come the thoughts of $$$. It is of no surprise the positions that many take here.

 

[Sportster]

Ok kids, lets try to save this thread, and not let it get all heated up an shit....

this is a constructive thread, so lets not ruin it!!! Please....

 

[zenoonez]

I'm confused, didn't you say you don't even live in cali or a non med state and you think you can just find a dispensary or even a collective that has the prices you want.

Are you crazy?

I do live in a non med state but that doesn't mean I haven't lived in cali or don't currently have family in cali. Lol. I know that my family members never pay more than 150 an oz for dank shit in norcal.

 

[Blue Dot]

I know that my family members never pay more than 150 an oz for dank shit in norcal.

This thread is about LA. You think LA is like Norcal?

Sportser, I thought I was discussing the real reasons behind why LA is so concerned about the clubs there???

 

[Pythagllio]

Thank you for proving the point that most MMJ patients and doctors are scaming the system.

Are you really that brain addled that you believe that bullshit? Since you posted it, I'll have to presume it so.

think about it, why would a legit patient sell their meds if their meds were worth more to them (in the form of pain relief) then money?

Hint: it's because they are scammers with no real medical need.

One thing I've got to say. You obviously have an extremely low opinion of your fellow man, and a hugely inflated opinion of yourself.

So legit patients should have to pay exorbinate prices because of the majority that are bad apples?

That's bad policy and unfair to the legit patients.

...and yet another straw man knocked down by Blue Dot! Not one straw man has survived even one round with Blue Dot and his alternative definitions of reality and words!

 

[zenoonez]

This thread is about LA. You think LA is like Norcal?

Sportser, I thought I was discussing the real reasons behind why LA is so concerned about the clubs there???

I think LA is just like SF in that it had dispensaries asking high prices for elites and others with virtually the same meds for much less, or at least it was the last time I was there.

 

[Sportster]

You were, and can....lets just try to keep any attitudes get'n outta hand, thats all I am asking....savy??

if I see the convo's attitude changing, I like to try to keep, ummm.....civil for the most part, thats all!!

 

[Pythagllio]

I would curl up in a ball of pain for a couple of days for a couple million.

With an open ended rec you can buy all you need, plus as much as you want or are able to resell. Blue Dot is mind addled, and missed that point. The patient in need gets his relief, and has the opportunity to resell to recoup his cost and even make a profit. Yeah, tell me that wouldn't happen. We know Blue Dot wouldn't do that because he's a very morally superior person, rather dimwitted, and it's somehow 'wrong' in his dogmatic view of the world, but there's lots and lots of people who wouldn't hesitate.

No BD, patients shouldn't have to pay more because the addle minded are scared that someone somewhere is going to make a profit. So tell me, why do you promote the very things you claim to be against?

 

[Blue Dot]

With an open ended rec you can buy all you need, plus as much as you want or are able to resell.

Isn't that a perfect arguement FOR 6 mature or 12 immature limits per sb420 and for limiting doctors to only reccomending 8 oz if diversion is such a problem?

 

[richyrich]

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man):

attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. For example, "Von Daniken's books about ancient astronauts are worthless because he is a convicted forger and embezzler." (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)

Another example is this syllogism, which alludes to Alan Turing's homosexuality:

Turing thinks machines think.
Turing lies with men.
Therefore, machines don't think.

(Note the equivocation in the use of the word "lies".)

A common form is an attack on sincerity. For example, "How can you argue for vegetarianism when you wear leather shoes?" The two wrongs make a right fallacy is related.

A variation (related to Argument By Generalization) is to attack a whole class of people. For example, "Evolutionary biology is a sinister tool of the materialistic, atheistic religion of Secular Humanism." Similarly, one notorious net.kook waved away a whole category of evidence by announcing "All the scientists were drunk."

Another variation is attack by innuendo: "Why don't scientists tell us what they really know; are they afraid of public panic?"

There may be a pretense that the attack isn't happening: "In order to maintain a civil debate, I will not mention my opponent's drinking problem." Or "I don't care if other people say you're [opinionated/boring/overbearing]."

Attacks don't have to be strong or direct. You can merely show disrespect, or cut down his stature by saying that he seems to be sweating a lot, or that he has forgotten what he said last week. Some examples: "I used to think that way when I was your age." "You're new here, aren't you?" "You weren't breast fed as a child, were you?" "What drives you to make such a statement?" "If you'd just listen.." "You seem very emotional." (This last works well if you have been hogging the microphone, so that they have had to yell to be heard.)

Sometimes the attack is on the other person's intelligence. For example, "If you weren't so stupid you would have no problem seeing my point of view." Or, "Even you should understand my next point."

Oddly, the stupidity attack is sometimes reversed. For example, dismissing a comment with "Well, you're just smarter than the rest of us." (In Britain, that might be put as "too clever by half".) This is Dismissal By Differentness. It is related to Not Invented Here and Changing The Subject.

Ad Hominem is not fallacious if the attack goes to the credibility of the argument. For instance, the argument may depend on its presenter's claim that he's an expert. (That is, the Ad Hominem is undermining an Argument From Authority.) Trial judges allow this category of attacks.

 

[kmk420kali]

BTW. I suffer from stress also, WE ALL DO.

Thank you...Check Mate..Match--
(That was all I have been asking for from the beginning...a little truth--)
I win nothing...you win it all...if you realize that all of us are the same--
All the Laws against Cannabis are illegal!!

 

[bigbrokush]

OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY
ROCKARD J. DELGADILLO
CITY ATTORNEY
REPORT NO. R09-0031
JAI\! :1 6 2()09
REPORTRE:
REVISED DRAFT ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING REGULATIONS
REGARDING MEDICAL MARIJUANA COLLECTIVES
The Honorable City Council
of the City of Los Angeles
Room 395, City Hall
200 North Spring Street
Los Angeles, California 90012
Council File No. 08-0923
Honorable Members:
Pursuant to the request of your Honorable Body, this office prepared and
transmitted for your action a draft ordinance, approved as to form and legality, that
would establish regulations regarding medical marijuana collectives (City Attorney
Report No. R08-0115).
We have prepared and transmit with this Report a revised draft ordinance,
approved as to form and legality, that includes introductory recitals and makes other
non-substantive wording changes. Copies of the revised draft ordinance were sent,
pursuant to Council Rule 38, to the Los Angeles Police Department, the Department of
Building and Safety, and the Office of the City Clerk with a request that all comments, if
any, be presented directly to your Honorable Body at the time this matter is considered.
AN EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY - AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER
200 NORTH MAIN STREET" LOS ANGELES, CA 90012-4131. 213.485.6370 .. 213.847.8082 TOD
The Honorable City COUT._.•
of the City of Los Angeles
Page 2
If you have any questions, please contact Deputy City Attorney Heather Aubry at
(213) 978-8393. She, or another member of this office, will be available when you
consider this matter to answer any questions you may have.
Sincerely,
ROCKARD J. DELGADILLO, City Attorney
By ~~
DAVID MICHAELSON
Chief Assistant City Attorney
DM:HA:lee
Transmittal
ORDINANCE NO. _
An ordinance amending the Los Angeles Municipal Code to implement the
Compassionate Use Act and the Medical Marijuana Program Act.
WHEREAS, in 1996, California voters approved the Compassionate Use Act in
order to exempt seriously ill patients and their primary caregivers from criminal liability
for possession and cultivation of marijuana; .
WHEREAS, the City of Los Angeles has a cornpelling interest in ensuring that
marijuana is not distributed in an illicit manner;
WHEREAS, the Medical Marijuana Program Act of 2003 provides for the
association of primary caregivers and qualified patients to cultivate marijuana;
WHEREAS, the regulation of these associations is essential to preserve the
peace and quiet of the neighborhoods in which these associations are established;
NOW, THEREFORE,
THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES
DO ORDAIN AS FOLLOWS:
Section 1. A new Article 5.1 is added to Chapter IV of the Los Angeles Municipal
Code to read:
Article 5.1. MEDICAL MARIJUANA
Sec. 45.19.6. Purposes and Intent.
The ordinance codified in this article, in compliance with California Health and
Safety Code Sections 11362.5, et seq., does not interfere with a patient's right to
medical marijuana, nor does it criminalize the possession or cultivation of medical
marijuana by specifically defined classifications of persons, pursuant to state law.
Under state law, only qualified patients, persons with identification cards and primary
caregivers may cultivate medical marijuana collectively. Medical marijuana collectives
shall otherwise comply with all provisions of the Los Angeles Municipal Code, including
the zoning ordinance, and the California Health and Safety Code. Nothing in this
ordinance purports to permit activities that are otherwise illegal under federal or state
law.
Sec. 45.19.6.1. Definitions.
The following phrases, when used in this chapter, shall be construed as defined
in California Health and Safety Code Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7:
1
"Person with an identification card;"
"Identification card;"
"Attending physician;"
"Primary caregiver;" and
"Qualified patient."
The following phrases, when used in this chapter, shall be construed as defined
below:
"Medical marijuana collective." Qualified patients, persons with identification
cards and designated primary caregivers of qualified patients and persons with
identification cards who associate, as an incorporated or unincorporated association, at
a particular location within the City of Los Angeles in order to collectively or
cooperatively cultivate marijuana for medical purposes, in strict accordance with
California Health and Safety Code Sections 11362.5, et seq.
Sec. 45.19.6.2. Registration. All medical marijuana collectives shall register
with the City Clerk by completing a registration form. Each member of the collective
must sign the form under penalty of perjury. The form shall, at a minimum, contain the
following information: the names of all members of the medical marijuana collective,
the location of the medical marijuana collective, a telephone number, the name and
address of a person authorized to accept service of process, and any other information
reasonably required on the form provided by the City Clerk to show that the medical
marijuana collective meets the requirements of this article. The collective shall also
provide proof that the owner of the property was given notice that the collective is filing
the registration form and also that the owner has received a copy of the information
contained in and with the form. The collective shall file a new registration form within
fifteen days of any changes in the information provided in the original form or any
change in status of compliance with the regulations set forth in Section 45.19.6.3. The
new form shall include the names of any new members and their signatures under
penalty of perjury that the information provided is true and correct. The City Clerk shall
provide proof of registration to the person authorized to accept service of process.
Sec. 45.19.6.3. Regulations.
The location at which a medical marijuana collective cultivates and distributes
medical marijuana must meet the following requirements:
(1) The location shall comply with the provisions of Chapters I and IX of
the Los Angeles Municipal Code;
(2) Exterior signage shall be limited to site addressing only;
(3) The location shall be monitored at all times by web-based closed
circuit television for security purposes. The camera and recording system must
2
be of adequate quality, color rendition and resolution to allow the ready
identification of any individual committing a crime anywhere on the site;
(4) The location shall have a centrally-monitored alarm system;
(5) Interior building lighting, exterior building lighting and parking area
lighting must be in compliance with Los Angeles Municipal Code Sections
93.0104, 93.0107 and 93.0117 and must be of sufficient foot-candles and color
rendition, so as to allow the ready identification of any individual committing a
crime on site at a distance of no less than forty feet (a distance that should allow
a person reasonable reaction time upon recognition of a viable threat);
(6) Windows and roof hatches shall be secured with bars on the windows
so as to prevent unauthorized entry, and be equipped with latches that may be
released quickly from the inside to allow exit in the event of emergency;
(7) Absolutely no cultivated marijuana or dried marijuana product may be
visible from the building exterior;
(8) No refinement of marijuana, or the preparation of marijuana products,
such as but not limited to hashish, "hash oil" or marijuana butter shall be allowed;
(9) No sale of marijuana or marijuana-enhanced or edible products shall
be allowed, nor shall the manufacturing of these products for sale be permitted;
(10) No persons under the age of eighteen shall be allowed on site,
unless the individual is a qualified patient or person with an identification card
and accompanied by his or her licensed attending physician, parent or
documented legal guardian;
(11) At any given time, no medical marijuana collective may possess
more than five pounds of dried marijuana or more than 100 plants. No medical
marijuana collective may possess marijuana that was not cultivated either on-site
or at a previous location, registered in accordance with Section 45.19.6.2, by that
medical marijuana collective;
(12) A sign shall be posted in a conspicuous location inside the structure
advising: "The diversion of marijuana for non-medical purposes is a violation of
State law. The use of marijuana may impair a person's ability to drive a motor
vehicle or operate heavy machinery. Loitering at the location of a medical
marijuana collective for an illegal purpose is prohibited by California Penal Code
Section 647(h)";
(13) No medical marijuana collective may provide medical marijuana to
any persons other than qualified patients or persons with identification cards and
designated primary caregivers who participate in the collective cultivation of
3
marijuana at that medical marijuana collective. No medical marijuana provided to
a primary caregiver may be supplied to any person(s) other than the primary
caregiver's qualified patient(s) or person(s) with an identification card;
(14) No cultivation of medical marijuana shall be visible with the naked
eye from any public or other private property. No outdoor cultivatlon shall occur
at a location unless it is secured from public access by means of a locked gate
and any other security measures necessary to prevent unauthorized entry;
(15) No medical marijuana collective shall be located within a 1,ODD-foot
radius of schools, playgrounds, parks, libraries, places of religious worship,
licensed child care facilities, licensed youth facilities, including youth hostels,
youth camps, and youth clubs, or other medical marijuana collective(s);
(16) No medical marijuana collective shall cause or permit the
establishment or maintenance of the sale or dispensing of alcoholic
beverages for consumption on the premises or off-site of the premises;
(17) No dried medical marijuana shall be stored in structures without at
least four walls and a roof, or stored in an unlocked vault or safe, or other
unsecured storage structure; nor shall any dried medical marijuana be stored in a
safe or vault that is not bolted to the floor or structure of the facility; and
(18) Medical marijuana cultivated at registered medical marijuana
collectives may not be consumed on-site, in the parking areas, or in those areas
already restricted by the California Health and Safety Code Section 11362.79.
Sec. 45.19.6.4. Exemptions.
(1) The prohibition in Section 45.19.6.3 (8) shall not apply to a qualified patient
or a person with an identification card who resides at the location of the medical
marijuana collective with respect to cooking, refining or otherwise preparing dried
marijuana cultivated at the location for his or her own medical use, in accordance with
the provisions of California Health and Safety Code Section 11362.5, et seq;
(2) The prohibition in Section 45.19.6.3 (8) shall not apply to a primary caregiver
who resides at the medical marijuana collective with respect to cooking, refining or
otherwise preparing dried marijuana CUltivated at the location for delivery to and medical
use by the qualified patient(s) or person(s) with an identification card for whom he or
she serves as primary caregiver;
(3) The prohibition in Section 45.19.6.3 (18) shall not apply to a qualified patient
or a person with an identification card who resides at the location of the medical
marijuana collective with respect to use of marijuana for his or her own medical
purposes;
4
(4) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to authorize the chemical extraction
of marijuana resin or production of concentrated cannabis in violation of California
Health and Safety Code section 11379.6.
Sec. 45.19.6.5 Maintenance of Records.
Medical marijuana collectives shall maintain records reflecting: (1) the full name,
address, and telephone number(s) of the owner or lessee of the property; (2) the full
name, address, and telephone number(s) of all qualified patients and persons with
identification cards and/or primary caregivers who participate in the collective
cultivation; (3) the full name, address, and telephone number(s) of all qualified patients
and persons with identification cards to whom the collective provides medical marijuana;
(4) the designation, by qualified patient(s) and person(s) with identification cards, of any
and all primary caregivers who participate in the collective cultivation; (5) the amount of
compensation, if any, for specified cultivation-related services received by any primary
caregiver in accordance with Health and Safety Code section 11362.765, and; (6) proof
of registration with the City Clerk in conformance with section 45.19.6.2.
Sec. 45.19.6.6. Inspection Authority.
The Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety and the Los Angeles Police
Department may inspect every medical marijuana collective location at any reasonable
time to ensure compliance with the provisions of this article and both Departments,
within their respective jurisdictions, are authorized to enforce the provisions of this
article.
Sec. 45.19.6.7. Existing "Medical Marijuana Dispensaries".
Any "Medical Marijuana Dispensary", as that term is defined in the Interim
Control Ordinance (Ord. No. 179,027), must cease operation unless and until such
location is in compliance with this Article. 5