KungPOW!!! makes a FLIP/FLOP

[DB2004]

What about the foot print that HID's leave? How Is that eliminated?

Contrary to what some are claiming, the footprint is not eliminated. If you leave your ballasts on 24/7 or even turn them off and on momentarily, the total KVA you are drawing will show up on a pole meter or a clamp-on. If you have 20 or more ballasts and they are running 24/7, you will have other equipment, AC, DH, pumps, fans, etc, that are drawing power intermittantly. If you have the funds, I recommend a small natural gas generator for the garden power, no way to tell what natural gas is being used for.

Best Regards

DB

 

[mallyone]

If you have the funds, I recommend a small natural gas generator for the garden power, no way to tell what natural gas is being used for.

I've been using a bicycle powered generator, 12 hours on then I spend 12 hours sleeping. A flipflop would mean I'd only have a 1 or 2 minute rest during the flip .



m1...

 

[BlindDate]

What about the foot print that HID's leave? How Is that eliminated?

HIDs are a type of lighting system they do not have feet. You need to read a little more.

 

[Anima]

Heya BlindDate
I think they are referring to the power usage spike that accompanys HID startup.

m1-hahahaha I hope you aren't growing haze!

 

[wafflehouselove]

where can you buy those utility boxes?

 

[DB2004]

what utility box are ya referring to, sorry I've smoked a few doobs in the last hour....lol. Are you meaning a flip.

Best Regards

DB

 

[doubleds]

relays

relays

where can i buy these relays, anyone?

 

[Uncle FREEDOM]

home depot

your one stop grow store!

lol

 

[Anima]

yup, you can get the utility boxes at home depot.
Make sure you get something that has some clamp downs for the wire going in and out so it doesn't move around on you and chew through its sheath.

 

[00420]

WRONG RELAY
DB2004 YOU SAID IT TOO AND YOUR BUILDING THEM TO SELL?
THE ONE'S I HAVE BUILT LASTED ABOUT A YEAR THEN THE CONTACTS GET BURNED
if you shut the power down flip then fire back up you will be fine i use a digi timer and shut down for 1 min

Electrical Specifications
Contact Rating:
30 Amps up to 300VAC 50/60 Hz,
5 Amps @ 480/600VAC, 50/60Hz, 0.75pf (slightly inductive) load.
when using two poles to switch both sides of load.
Contact Material: Silver cadmium oxide, 5/16” Dia
Coil
Coil Voltages: See Chart
Coil Resistance: See chart
Coil Power: Maximum Coil Dissipation: 4 watts DC
Duty Cycle: Continuous
Operational Characteristics
Timing Values . . . . . Operate Time: 40mS or less
Release Time: 30mS or less
Insulation Characteristics
Dielectric Strength
Across Open Contacts: 1500 VRMS
Between mutually insulated conductive
elements: 2200 VRMS
Environmental Characteristics
Operating: −30° to +50°C (AC), −30°C to +60°C (DC)
Non−operating (storage): −30°C to +100°C
Weight
D3 case: 8 ozs (227 grams)—approx
D4 case: 9 ozs (255 grams)—approx
D5 case: 11 ozs (311 grams)—approx

NICE thread kung pow..... i have not had time to post up mine......
the relay works it just needs to be safe guys... we dont need any fire's plz shut the ballast down and turn it back on after the flip...

 

[Anima]

00420 who are you calling wrong IN ALL CAPS?!?!
Are you saying you use a different relay?
What is that part number of the "CORRECT" relay to use?
look at my pic and the part number...it is the EXACT SAME PART that you have a link to.
part number:R04-11A30-120 manufactured by NTE electronics.
same part, but your site lists slightly better specs..
sigh...another timer eh?....
what exactly was happening when your contacts got burned?
...not trying to be an ass...just trying to get things sorted so that we are all safe...thanks bro..

 

[00420]

what I'm saying is its not made for the hps "inrush" output.
It can be used how ever as long as you shut the ballast down flip then turn it back on this stops the arc and won't burn the silver cadmium

I have yet to find a relay that can handle the inrush at the amp's that are needed I have talked to over 50 tech's in the relay biz and they all say the samething
I have found relays that are 7200 volts but only up to 5 amp's ......

 

[DB2004]

The inrush to ignite the bulb is approximately 5000V and lass less than a second, it's a pulse. When you calculate KVA with 5000V, the amperage draw is less than 1A, that would equal 5000W, since the ballast and bulb are 1000W, than the amperage draw is more like about 0.25A to 0.5A. As the voltage drops, the amperage increases. The ballasts do not need to be turned off. These relays work fine, and the arcing on the contacts (silver cadmium) can be lessened so the relays will last a few years. These relays have been used in 1000s of flips, and not one has caused a fire. I only recommend turning off digital ballasts before the flip cycle. If you do want your flip to last for several years, than I would say get a second unit that powers off the ballasts, even if for less than 10 seconds, than do flip cycle. For larger greenhouses, a PLC (programmable logic controller) can be built into a flip or loadcenter. The PLC allows a variety of timing cycle, delays, inputs, etc. I agree with 00420, if you want your flip to last several years, than turn off and on your ballasts, before and after a flip cycle.

Best Regards

DB

 

[00420]

thx db2004,
I had one arc after a yr's use it was not the flop that cought fire but the ballast from the direct ground that the arc made inside the flop....I'm looking it to timedelay relays but there very pricey
I know one other that had a flop burn all see if I can get him to post more detales..

I highly recomend turning off the ballast.... To save it and the flop y buy stuff twice when 20 dolla's can save both and last yr's longer.....

 

[DB2004]

For time delay relays, look into a PLC, they start at about $200 for a 4 relay output, expansion modules are 4 relay outputs too. Depending one how many lights, it is a simple way to time delay switching from 1/100 sec to hours or days. The PLC can also be setup to control the powering off and on of ballasts and for switching flip cycle.

Best Regards

DB

 

[Anima]

I had one arc after a yr's use it was not the flop that cought fire but the ballast from the direct ground that the arc made inside the flop

I haven't had the balls to run the power through the relay and leave the cover open to see if there was any arcing with my 400w in the relay while flipping between the 2 bulbs..I have looked at the contacts and so far they are free of any corrosion or carbon buildup...still looks brand new. Whats a good maintenance schedule for opening it up and checking it out?
Every month with a 400w... weekly with 1k's?
Another timer is worth the investment for safety, and peace of mind. Thanks guys

 

[Uncle FREEDOM]

Ran my flip/flop for quite a while... never missed a beat... but i love the exchange if idea's. It is all about learning baby!

But i think the gist of my posting how i built one was to keep it simple and to reduce the cost for people till they can get to the point where they can get more advanced...

If your looking for a flip to get you through a year or 2 i see not need to get hi-tec....

mind you not for dig. ballasts though... but then again we are talking a cheap set up.

cheers boys.

 

[The 420 Wookie]

this allows you to use 1 ballast for two bulbs right?

 

[Uncle FREEDOM]

yes that is correct....

The whole idea is to utilize your existing equipment to the full potential, and get 2 crops with one ballast. It also saves you money, and you canalso hook any other equipment up to the flip/flop to run both rooms.

Hope this helps

 

[smokadepep]

these are strong enough to spark up a 1k hps bulb??