Kratom

[shithawk420]

We

Some people have used Kratom to come off of opiates, but the jury's still out on the efficacy and wisdom of this.

For the record, most stimulants and amphetamines are not physically addictive like heroin, alcohol and benzodiazepines are.

Most stimulants and amphetamines are psychologically addictive for some/many people, and sometimes greatly so, because of the 'dopamine effect'; that pang and sometimes immediate effect/message or urge in the brain that after one does a REALLY clean line of good coke, for example, the statement in the brain is "DAMN!! THAT WAS GOOD!! DO ANOTHER!!" Why we referred to coke as a "S'mor drug" back in the early 80s.. As in, Do some more!

Sometimes you'll get the same message from the first or second beer or alcoholic beverage, too. Still dopamine at play, even though alcohol is, in fact, physically addictive..

My favorite thing to tell folks about dopamine, whether in response to a really good food item, alcohol, coke, or whatever, is this, and it's true to some extent, in my opinion and experience; "Dopamine is a LIAR!!" Because more isn't always better. Sometimes the opposite.

When you get that feel-good urge to immediately do another line, or drink, or whatever, tell yourself that. "Dopamine is a liar!!" It can be very helpful.

Well your spot on. Cause nobody actually catches the Dragon do they? Probably die in the process of chasing it. IT sucks but ive come a long ways and i hope i can be completely sober for years one day but just like the Joe Walsh song ya gotta take it one day at a time. And i really think if he can do it maybe anyone can. Although ill bet its a lot easier when your a famous rich rockstar. or maybe not. IDK

 

[moose eater]

We

Well your spot on. Cause nobody actually catches the Dragon do they? Probably die in the process of chasing it. IT sucks but ive come a long ways and i hope i can be completely sober for years one day but just like the Joe Walsh song ya gotta take it one day at a time. And i really think if he can do it maybe anyone can. Although ill bet its a lot easier when your a famous rich rockstar. or maybe not. IDK

I've watched you struggle with alcohol for years, hawk, not knowing what else might be in the mix, but knowing you're a bright fellow when you are not drowning in ethanol. even when you've been awash in alcohol you've often been more present than many .

Whatever self-hate others might have implied we ought to entertain toward ourselves, the pre-programming is nothing but premature self-destruction.

Jung was right about embracing all aspects of ourselves, good, bad, and ugly. Beautiful and callous alike.. Without knowing what we have on the negative side and embracing its presence, it's more difficult to change and redirect. Without having a clean view of what's on the positive side, there's the chance for over-embellishment or aggrandizement.

Most of life is learning about who and what we really are, coming to peace with that, building on or from that, and hopefully sharing it with others in our life as we age.

I hope you learn to love yourself in ways that you find the paths you want to be on. And travel them.

 

[shithawk420]

Thank you for the kind words moose.luckily I don't endulge in other thinks like tobacco or hard drugs but if it was in front of me I'd probably do them.

I make no excuses for what I am and what I've done.even though I hate it and know nothing I do can redeem for what ive done.im not a sexual predator or a thief or anything bad like that.i have a fucked up chemical surge i cant control.when i get mad im like the Hulk and i cant help it.i need really strong drugs like benzos or thorazine or something and i cant get it.pisses me off.these doctors dont know how dangerous i am and i dont tell them cause im not getting Baker Acted or anything like that.im a sociopath so i can usually hide it well until the surge of chemical emotions surge through my veins.

i should of been a millionaire by now.my grandpa won an Emmy working at NBC5 Chicago and I was briefly tutored by the guy who invented the 8 track before he died. It all came down to alcohol.if I never touched the stuff I could of been infinite. I don't know.all the bullshit growing up sure didn't help

Sorry to get off track but this site is dying anyway so it don't really matter cause i doubt many people will see this anyway.i got one tallboy left and it's raining and thundering with tornado sirens here in Davenport IA.ill try to get a couple beers and take some kratom and a "legal" Gummi here today.its not legal to possess cannabis here but they have this crazy delta 8 crap.i didn't pass a drug test so anyone wanting to try this "legal" stuff be careful if you don't want to fail a UI.

As always thanks again moose.really wish I knew you IRL cause you have so much to teach. especially to these younger idiots.i can't believe how dumb they are.i wish i was 10 years younger cause i would be at the top if this is what the future looks like.it must make sane people sick

 

[moose eater]

Thank you for the kind words moose.luckily I don't endulge in other thinks like tobacco or hard drugs but if it was in front of me I'd probably do them.

I make no excuses for what I am and what I've done.even though I hate it and know nothing I do can redeem for what ive done.im not a sexual predator or a thief or anything bad like that.i have a fucked up chemical surge i cant control.when i get mad im like the Hulk and i cant help it.i need really strong drugs like benzos or thorazine or something and i cant get it.pisses me off.these doctors dont know how dangerous i am and i dont tell them cause im not getting Baker Acted or anything like that.im a sociopath so i can usually hide it well until the surge of chemical emotions surge through my veins.

i should of been a millionaire by now.my grandpa won an Emmy working at NBC5 Chicago and I was briefly tutored by the guy who invented the 8 track before he died. It all came down to alcohol.if I never touched the stuff I could of been infinite. I don't know.all the bullshit growing up sure didn't help

Sorry to get off track but this site is dying anyway so it don't really matter cause i doubt many people will see this anyway.i got one tallboy left and it's raining and thundering with tornado sirens here in Davenport IA.ill try to get a couple beers and take some kratom and a "legal" Gummi here today.its not legal to possess cannabis here but they have this crazy delta 8 crap.i didn't pass a drug test so anyone wanting to try this "legal" stuff be careful if you don't want to fail a UI.

As always thanks again moose.really wish I knew you IRL cause you have so much to teach. especially to these younger idiots.i can't believe how dumb they are.i wish i was 10 years younger cause i would be at the top if this is what the future looks like.it must make sane people sick

My advice re. chemical relief.... STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM BENZOS!!

Once part of the 'mother's little helper' package, they're one of 2 drugs I know of for which unsupervised cold-turkey withdrawal can lead to death: alcohol and benzos. Valium, Ativan, etc., are NOT as friendly as they often feel, and they typically have a synergistic effect with opiates.

Heroin and other opiates don't typically kill as a result of cold-turkey cessation unless the individual is suffering from a serious heart condition, etc. And that's very rare, even then.

Look at addressing any behavior or substance that causes you to feel 'less than' about yourself after the fact. Easier said than done, sometimes... maybe most of the time. I suspect you're worth the positive self-scrutiny and effort.

In reality, hawk, I'm just a slowly dying old cynical bastard most of the time with a relatively short temper for bullshit and a fairly serious impatience for a handful of other things in life. And I've got some dirt under my fingernails too.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

We

Well your spot on. Cause nobody actually catches the Dragon do they? Probably die in the process of chasing it. IT sucks but ive come a long ways and i hope i can be completely sober for years one day but just like the Joe Walsh song ya gotta take it one day at a time. And i really think if he can do it maybe anyone can. Although ill bet its a lot easier when your a famous rich rockstar. or maybe not. IDK

I'm just catching up on this thread and don't have time to read all of it but since ETOH has been brought up, kind of feel like I should respond.

I've had a grandfather, father, and brother die alcoholism (such a fucking horrible way to die), so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this shit runs in the family and is a part of me as well. I come from a family of well functioning alcoholics but when my brother died, I became determined that shit wasn't going to happen to _me_.

However, alcohol and cannabis have been a part of my life for a very very long time and I enjoy the combo immensely. Too much so, unfortunately. So I decided to only drink alcohol on the major holidays. And no, Thursday isn't a holiday.

There's no way I can drink enough alcohol during the 6 or 7 holiday periods that's going to fucking kill me. So I get a quart of vodka every holiday, mow through it at whatever pace I want, and wait for the next holiday.

Memorial Day weekend is coming up and it's been a damn long time since New Year's Eve.

And I don't think addiction, whether alcohol, drugs or food, is any easier when you're rich or famous. When something gets a hold of you mentally and won't let go, it doesn't matter how fucking rich or poor you are, it's a _control_ thing.

Hawk, I don't know how deep you're into it but you hit the nail on the head when you say you're taking it a day at a time. That's the absolute key to success, and if you fall flat on your fucking face, just get back up the next day and do better.

Good luck!

 

[shithawk420]

I know benzos can be pretty bad but what am i to do

My advice re. chemical relief.... STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM BENZOS!!

Once part of the 'mother's little helper' package, they're one of 2 drugs I know of for which unsupervised cold-turkey withdrawal can lead to death: alcohol and benzos. Valium, Ativan, etc., are NOT as friendly as they often feel, and they typically have a synergistic effect with opiates.

Heroin and other opiates don't typically kill as a result of cold-turkey cessation unless the individual is suffering from a serious heart condition, etc. And that's very rare, even then.

Look at addressing any behavior or substance that causes you to feel 'less than' about yourself after the fact. Easier said than done, sometimes... maybe most of the time. I suspect you're worth the positive self-scrutiny and effort.

In reality, hawk, I'm just a slowly dying old cynical bastard most of the time with a relatively short temper for bullshit and a fairly serious impatience for a handful of other things in life. And I've got some dirt under my fingernails too.

I know Benzos are bad but i dont know what else to do. I quit drinking and was eating proper but its just not enough. It will never go away. I realize that.I realize the fact that when i say i "need" something is never the right answer. As far as i can tell there is no right answer that i can see in front of me. well there is an answer and i dont want to cross the bridge that once done can never be undone.

Awe fuck. sorry. just going in circles here. Me and you are the same moose. My dad calls me an old man and says im 80. hes not wrong. I wonder if ill be as nice as you if i get to your age and try to console some random kid on the internet. I dont think your that old are you? my buddy is 70 and had knee surgery in Feb i think and he has to settle it down cause hes always working hard on something. After his wife passed my uncle bought his farm cause we needed somewhere to put the female horses away from the males. Its pretty decent and he gets up at 5 every morning to feed and water. He quit drinking but still smokes cannabis. i guess one of my goals is to be as healthy as he is at that age but i dont see it. My genes just wont allow it i dont think. dont think my mom will last another 2 years. she is on dialysis at 63.

Anyway im sorry. im meandering again. ill try to shut up.Maybe ill try to find a herb or some kinda plant to knock me out that i havent heard of. Doesnt matter what strain it is. Cannabis gives me huge anxiety and dread and doesnt calm me. obviously cause of PTSD or whatever. which brings me to the reason i was hoping kratom would help. It hasnt so far. Only actual heroin and Benzos has helped with that and obviously that is not a good path to go down but i dont know what else to do. Well fuk thats my crybaby rant. thought maybe some of it would be relevant.sorry guys

 

[moose eater]

I know benzos can be pretty bad but what am i to do

I know Benzos are bad but i dont know what else to do. I quit drinking and was eating proper but its just not enough. It will never go away. I realize that.I realize the fact that when i say i "need" something is never the right answer. As far as i can tell there is no right answer that i can see in front of me. well there is an answer and i dont want to cross the bridge that once done can never be undone.

Awe fuck. sorry. just going in circles here. Me and you are the same moose. My dad calls me an old man and says im 80. hes not wrong. I wonder if ill be as nice as you if i get to your age and try to console some random kid on the internet. I dont think your that old are you? my buddy is 70 and had knee surgery in Feb i think and he has to settle it down cause hes always working hard on something. After his wife passed my uncle bought his farm cause we needed somewhere to put the female horses away from the males. Its pretty decent and he gets up at 5 every morning to feed and water. He quit drinking but still smokes cannabis. i guess one of my goals is to be as healthy as he is at that age but i dont see it. My genes just wont allow it i dont think. dont think my mom will last another 2 years. she is on dialysis at 63.

Anyway im sorry. im meandering again. ill try to shut up.Maybe ill try to find a herb or some kinda plant to knock me out that i havent heard of. Doesnt matter what strain it is. Cannabis gives me huge anxiety and dread and doesnt calm me. obviously cause of PTSD or whatever. which brings me to the reason i was hoping kratom would help. It hasnt so far. Only actual heroin and Benzos has helped with that and obviously that is not a good path to go down but i dont know what else to do. Well fuk thats my crybaby rant. thought maybe some of it would be relevant.sorry guys

The dopamine rush leaves a strong memory. There are heroin addicts who've quit long ago and still experience a craving over time.

Self-talk is one avenue to overcome that for some. Remind yourself as much as the memory calls to you, it's a path that doesn't lead where it seems to, and from your own experiences, too.

I snorted a brand-new Mercedes Benz worth of uncut 92%+ coke 3 or 4 years in a row in the early 80s. My weed dealing had to subsidize my coke dealing because I only made money on quantity coke buys 2 x's. $20 and $80. Not a very solid business model, but I wouldn't cut what I sold, and I shared and snorted a LOT.

I quit the same way that most people I know from back then that were equally deep into it; it got to a place where it was not producing the wonderful euphoric effect I had experienced early on, having a bunch around was like walking around a bomb, hoping I didn't cut the seal it was in and open the proverbial flood gates, and experiencing the negative side of the buzz after it had changed my metabolism; minimal sleep, paranoia and anxiety.

No longer any fun at all. and I knew it.

These days I have no fear of the stuff. Never have, really. And no cravings. Just got to where I knew it was ignorant to continue. If something's not giving you what it is you're seeking, stop asking it to. That end of it was/is that simple for me and many others. (*Though coke's not a physically addictive drug, but it does tap hard on the dopamine effect).

These days my metabolism has changed so much from the past coke and from aging that if I did an 1/8 or even a 1/16 of what I previously did in one sitting of half the quality I previously used, I have heart palpitations and serious anxiety. Who wants to pay good money for that? And when I'm wired hard, my short patience for bullshit is nearly non-existent, so there's a price to be paid, even if just emotional, by those near me who I care about.

There are all sorts of reasons to remind yourself about the righteousness of the path away from the things that fuck you up. You sometimes need to remind yourself of what those are when you're tempted.

Of course, a healthy dose of self-destructive tendencies can interfere in that too. You've got to 'steer your own ship' in the end. Sometimes easier said than done.

Anyway, we've probably detoured or derailed this thread enough for now.

 

[shithawk420]

I'm just catching up on this thread and don't have time to read all of it but since ETOH has been brought up, kind of feel like I should respond.

I've had a grandfather, father, and brother die alcoholism (such a fucking horrible way to die), so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this shit runs in the family and is a part of me as well. I come from a family of well functioning alcoholics but when my brother died, I became determined that shit wasn't going to happen to _me_.

However, alcohol and cannabis have been a part of my life for a very very long time and I enjoy the combo immensely. Too much so, unfortunately. So I decided to only drink alcohol on the major holidays. And no, Thursday isn't a holiday.

There's no way I can drink enough alcohol during the 6 or 7 holiday periods that's going to fucking kill me. So I get a quart of vodka every holiday, mow through it at whatever pace I want, and wait for the next holiday.

Memorial Day weekend is coming up and it's been a damn long time since New Year's Eve.

And I don't think addiction, whether alcohol, drugs or food, is any easier when you're rich or famous. When something gets a hold of you mentally and won't let go, it doesn't matter how fucking rich or poor you are, it's a _control_ thing.

Hawk, I don't know how deep you're into it but you hit the nail on the head when you say you're taking it a day at a time. That's the absolute key to success, and if you fall flat on your fucking face, just get back up the next day and do better.

Good luck!

Thanks for the wise words sir. Yeah i became a full blown alcoholic at 15 or 16. My dad was a weed dealer and we were practically homeless living off of the weed we would sell so yeah it dont get much deeper than that. My dad called me from prison yesterday. AGG DUI cause hes had a few DUIs. He said he dont crave it much but i know when he gets out hes gonna start drinking and smoking weed again. I told i dont want to be around drunks anymore. It was fun when i was a kid but this is BS. My dads gonna be 65 fresh out of prison smoking weed and drinking everyday again with nowhere to even parole too. Thats fuking sad but hes a violent drunk so he did it to himself.

but anyway not to go too far off track but id be interested in any stories of kratom helping with addiction. i take Naltrexone and it has helped a lot with drinking but ya know.

sorry to go off track but lets be real. this place has died down big time since Covid it seems or maybe before that. i dont think i went so far off track not to consider the great anecdotes here. Kratoms reputation for helping people quit addiction should be discussed. And perhaps maybe a reason it hasnt worked for some is cause of past addiction to other drugs. just a thought.im gonna take 6 capsules.see how i feel

 

[shithawk420]

just wanted to say sorry for getting weird. i drank and took too many gummies. i felt something from the kratom but nothing major. dont like the idea of taking that many capsules

 

[CannaRed]

The only capsules that ever worked for me were the o.p.m. gold. But they are too expensive.
On the days that I take it, I take 2 big heaping spoonfuls every 3 or 4 hours. The main thing Ive noticed about Kratom compared to other drugs is I forget to take it. For the 16 years I was taking real opioids , I never once forgot to take a dose, that shit ruled my existence.
The only withdrawal symptoms I have is I get tired and start yawning and my eyes might water a little bit. But I've stopped taking it several times to see if I would suffer any harder withdrawals like I've read online. I went over a month as an experiment, but I only got the yawns was on the first evening when I stopped.
Im not tired or yawning when I wake up the next morning.
Even with weed, I never forget to take a bong hit, it's always on my mind, I constantly forget to take some in the day.
I like to take it when I wake up, around 6 and again at around 11 and l take last dose before 3. I don't like taking it after 3pm because sometimes it takes longer to kick in, and I don't want trouble trying to sleep.
To me it's a caffeine booster or replacement, but I would not use it, if I was one of the folks that experiences withdrawal symptoms equal to real opioids and opiates.
Like every other substance -consume with caution.

 

[shithawk420]

The only capsules that ever worked for me were the o.p.m. gold. But they are too expensive.
On the days that I take it, I take 2 big heaping spoonfuls every 3 or 4 hours. The main thing Ive noticed about Kratom compared to other drugs is I forget to take it. For the 16 years I was taking real opioids , I never once forgot to take a dose, that shit ruled my existence.
The only withdrawal symptoms I have is I get tired and start yawning and my eyes might water a little bit. But I've stopped taking it several times to see if I would suffer any harder withdrawals like I've read online. I went over a month as an experiment, but I only got the yawns was on the first evening when I stopped.
Im not tired or yawning when I wake up the next morning.
Even with weed, I never forget to take a bong hit, it's always on my mind, I constantly forget to take some in the day.
I like to take it when I wake up, around 6 and again at around 11 and l take last dose before 3. I don't like taking it after 3pm because sometimes it takes longer to kick in, and I don't want trouble trying to sleep.
To me it's a caffeine booster or replacement, but I would not use it, if I was one of the folks that experiences withdrawal symptoms equal to real opioids and opiates.
Like every other substance -consume with caution.

Thanks for sharing Red.sounds like your a pretty regular user.when do you think you start building a tolerance?

 

[CannaRed]

Thanks for sharing Red.sounds like your a pretty regular user.when do you think you start building a tolerance?

I've taken it for years. Maybe 5, I don't know.
When I read all the horrible withdrawals symptoms other people were having, I figured I'd better test it out. I had stopped for 5 or 6 days at a time, many times before, so that's why I stopped taking it for those 5 or 6 weeks, I was worried that the withdrawal wasn't going to kick in until after a week or two. But I only experience the tiredness and yawns for about an hour before I fall asleep.
I don't think these people are lying about their experience with Kratom, I think that everyones body is different and some people get withdrawal and some don't. Im just lucky that I don't experience it.

 

[shithawk420]

I've taken it for years. Maybe 5, I don't know.
When I read all the horrible withdrawals symptoms other people were having, I figured I'd better test it out. I had stopped for 5 or 6 days at a time, many times before, so that's why I stopped taking it for those 5 or 6 weeks, I was worried that the withdrawal wasn't going to kick in until after a week or two. But I only experience the tiredness and yawns for about an hour before I fall asleep.
I don't think these people are lying about their experience with Kratom, I think that everyones body is different and some people get withdrawal and some don't. Im just lucky that I don't experience it.

lol you tried getting withdrawls in the name of science? well thats good you didnt get sick. im wondering when the FDA and DEA is gonna crack down but in my experience this isnt anything to get excited about. I simply dont get any urge to use this everyday cause it just dont do much if anything for me. maybe i gotta take more capsules. honestly its a pain in the ass to take so many

 

[CannaRed]

That's exactly why I toss and wash. Fuck those caps. Take a gulp of water, but leave it in your mouth, dump a spoonful in, swallow. Rinse.

 

[moose eater]

lol you tried getting withdrawls in the name of science? well thats good you didnt get sick. im wondering when the FDA and DEA is gonna crack down but in my experience this isnt anything to get excited about. I simply dont get any urge to use this everyday cause it just dont do much if anything for me. maybe i gotta take more capsules. honestly its a pain in the ass to take so many

The DEA already tried to classify/schedule kratom on the 1970s CSA. Can't recall with certainty, but I believe they attempted for a schedule 1 classification or scheduling. And they failed to convince the people at that hearing.

Maybe their drug war schtick is getting old in more places than we thought?

My tolerance to the effect of a set dose of 3-4 capsules of Kat's Botanicals (mostly Red Bali) occurred within weeks. Maybe 3-4 weeks when I knew it wasn't doing what it initially had for me.

I was primarily taking it at night.

 

[moose eater]

The only capsules that ever worked for me were the o.p.m. gold. But they are too expensive.
On the days that I take it, I take 2 big heaping spoonfuls every 3 or 4 hours. The main thing Ive noticed about Kratom compared to other drugs is I forget to take it. For the 16 years I was taking real opioids , I never once forgot to take a dose, that shit ruled my existence.
The only withdrawal symptoms I have is I get tired and start yawning and my eyes might water a little bit. But I've stopped taking it several times to see if I would suffer any harder withdrawals like I've read online. I went over a month as an experiment, but I only got the yawns was on the first evening when I stopped.
Im not tired or yawning when I wake up the next morning.
Even with weed, I never forget to take a bong hit, it's always on my mind, I constantly forget to take some in the day.
I like to take it when I wake up, around 6 and again at around 11 and l take last dose before 3. I don't like taking it after 3pm because sometimes it takes longer to kick in, and I don't want trouble trying to sleep.
To me it's a caffeine booster or replacement, but I would not use it, if I was one of the folks that experiences withdrawal symptoms equal to real opioids and opiates.
Like every other substance -consume with caution.

Have you had your kidney function tested? Asking in seriousness. The dosage and frequency re. kratom is why I ask.

 

[moose eater]

https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2016/08/30/dea-announces-intent-schedule-kratom

Federal Register :: Request Access

The DEA Changes Its Mind on Kratom

www.uspharmacist.com

 

[shithawk420]

That's exactly why I toss and wash. Fuck those caps. Take a gulp of water, but leave it in your mouth, dump a spoonful in, swallow. Rinse.

yeah this is the first time buying caps. ive always just took a gulp of beer and a spoonful of powder from a bag but its impossible not to make a mess. it will ruin your clothes.wonder if theres a way to make an extract from my capsules? im sure there is if any chemists can chime in

 

[ronsonmatsuo]

It can have physically addictive properties for some, and like opiates, not for others.

And there are some less-than-fully researched health issues that seem serious. Including a limited number of known deaths.

Oh yea I know that. I went to the e.r. Numerous times. Scarred liver and arythmia. Canabis saved my life man. Yea I have some friends that can use kratom and nothing bad happens to them. Or some that takes the extract and stops after a day. I’m just one of those dumbass that want the dose that makes you crawl on the floor. Red white green maeng da Bali whatever I’ll find the right dose to get me there. They say the red is for relaxation. Bro I find it in the white or green. It smashes me till I’m deaf bro with a ring similar to crack but very faint. But I’m soo smashed like dope. I rub my nose till it’s fuckin bruised and bleeding. All the power to the person that uses it functionally. If I could I would but I cant

 

[moose eater]

Oh yea I know that. I went to the e.r. Numerous times. Scarred liver and arythmia. Canabis saved my life man. Yea I have some friends that can use kratom and nothing bad happens to them. Or some that takes the extract and stops after a day. I’m just one of those dumbass that want the dose that makes you crawl on the floor. Red white green maeng da Bali whatever I’ll find the right dose to get me there. They say the red is for relaxation. Bro I find it in the white or green. It smashes me till I’m deaf bro with a ring similar to crack but very faint. But I’m soo smashed like dope. I rub my nose till it’s fuckin bruised and bleeding. All the power to the person that uses it functionally. If I could I would but I cant

Yep, fine-tuning to each of our own tolerances and sensitivities, whether food, drugs, or whatever. Each person has their own unique make-up.