Just add water

[NSPB]

Agreed Jay. It is all about proper composting. Mediums when amended, given time to compost properly, in my opinion, are truly the best method of growing. Once you find that just add water formula that works for you, gardening is pure leisure.

I have said many times that plants were originally designed to be grown in soil. SURE, they will grow in many different things, but I personally believe, there is a quality in taste and terepene profile and resin quality that is only present when soil is being used as part of the substrate. This is not to ignore the many benefits that can be had when using other mediums and then becomes incumbent upon the gardener to find / create the "perfect" mix. I've found the best of all worlds in my own mix, but I feel this is mostly because I am fortunate to have a very good, consistent supplier of high quality organic soil.

My base mix:

4 gallons organic soil
3 gallons perlite
1.5 gallons peat
1.5 gallons coir
1 gallon EWC

This basically creates about 1.5 cu. ft. of medium...the same amount you'd get in a retail bag of soil. I've found this to be an excellent balance of all worlds...



NSPB

 

[jaykush]

whats the organic soil portion? like dirt from outside?

 

[NSPB]

yes, Jay.

There is a semi-local company that produces and very high quality dirt that is screened and sifted, as an "organic potting soil". It probably has maybe 20 pieces of perlite in the whole 40# bag. (maybe exaggerating, but really, there is hardly ANY) The soil isn't given an NPK rating as any nutrients in it are "negligible" according to the manufacturer. I'd not even say that this is a "top soil"...as much as it is just earth...





NSPB

 

[guest2012y]

Interesting....any source info.? Got a pic of the soil itself?

 

[Doobie Nyce]

Here's a recipe for starting out using off-the-shelf stuff. The male I showed a pic of relied more on recycled soil, which was amended a bit then cooked for awhile (actually some stuff was composted in the soil too) and earthworm castings.

This is the latest version from the grower I snagged the pic from and this recipe is geared to work with pure water sources only, or else you risk Mg x Ca ratios going to hell and results will then vary.

BASE MIX
2 gal Ocean Forrest (or good organic soil mix)
2 gal Coir (coconut fiber)
2 gal Perlite (small nugget size)
2 gal Castings (earthworm castings, or fresh compost works too)

AMENDMENTS
1.5 cup All Purpose or Bloom (Organicare Pure) OR 1 cup 5-5-5 such as Fox Farm
1 cup Greensand
1 cup Ground Oyster Shells
2 cup Crushed Oyster Shells
½ cup (heaping) Powdered Dolomite Lime
½ cup Prilled (pelletized) Dolomite Lime
½ cup Blood Meal (or High N Bird Guano 12-8-2 NPK if flowering)
½ cup heaping un-steamed Bone Meal
¾ cup Bulb Food - Fox Farm (3-8-8)
½ cup Soft Rock Phosphate powdered
1 cup Gypsum powdered
1 cup Kelp Meal

½ cup Zeolite or Azomite granular **optional
½ cup Humate granular **optional
1 cup Alfalfa Meal (or 2 cup pellets) **optional
1 cup Rock Phosphate Granular **optional
1 cup organic rice **optional

FLOOR: Steer Manure + Coir/Perlite + Crushed & Ground Oyster Shells

SPIKES: Blood/Feather Meal + Ground Oyster (+ Steamed Bone Meal and Bulb Food added if flowering) and kelp or alfalfa meal.

This mix should be moistened (Do not get it soaking wet!) with chlorine free water, and turned over every few days, for about 7-10 days before use. With something like 7 or 8 weeks don't use spikes, with something 16 weeks (LoL) use spikes and the floor additions. Also keep in mind different genetics have different needs nutrient-wise. Some can do great with smaller levels of nutrients present while others are food hogs huge, and that is not relative to flowering time. So you can adjust this mix accordingly, but do not fear the strength cuz it is all buffered prime! For spikes add 2 each veg and flower at transplant in the fresh soil.

I have been using a variation of this mix for a while now and loving it!! I must say that this mix is geared for 0ppm water sources, (rain, R/O) and if you are using dechlorinated tap water or well water, you should cut the lime approx. in half. But this mix works very well in combination with spikes and bottom layers. I yield between .5 and 1 ounce per gallon of mix no matter what size pot I use. I Even grow just add water outdoor monsters in 36 gallon totes!
Talk about easy!

TLO growing can be a little tricky, but VERY rewarding. I've been strictly 'just add water' for over 5 years, and IMO the quality CANNOT be BEAT!!

===========
[SPIKE RECIPE]

50% all purpose organic dry nute
25% blood meal
25% kelp meal

here's how you use the spike mix.
Just after transplanting into a new container, poke 4 holes about a pencils width down into the soilmix, all the way to the bottom. Space your holes evenly around the outside, about 1" away from the outside of the container. You know, just away from where the new roots will spiral around, and away from your current rootmass. Use a funnel and fill the holes with the mix! The idea is to let the spikes rot in the soil before the roots get there.

Usually in a 4 gallon container each hole will take 1-2 tbs of mix.

 

[CherChezLaGhost]

Man if you wanna see what kinda results you can get from just add water mixes, then check out Phillthy's thread. It don't get no better and honestly don't think the mix can get any easier. After using this I don't know why anybody would use anything else. Stupid dumb props to Phillthy for his blueprint. I'm a believer. Thanks fam.

 

[Iron_Lion]

Man if you wanna see what kinda results you can get from just add water mixes, then check out Phillthy's thread. It don't get no better and honestly don't think the mix can get any easier. After using this I don't know why anybody would use anything else. Stupid dumb props to Phillthy for his blueprint. I'm a believer. Thanks fam.

got a link for the soil mix?

 

[NSPB]

Mix A - in post #34 of this thread IS the mix that Phillthy uses.

Pictures 3 and 4 in post #30 are also plants from his garden, grown in that mix.

Interesting....any source info.? Got a pic of the soil itself?

About all there is online for it...

http://www.trademarkia.com/gardeners-pride-78461361.html

And a picture, although this is my full mix (unamended):

4 gal soil
1.5 gal peat
1.5 gal coir
1 gal EWC
3 gal perlite

NSPB

 

[guest2012y]

Mix A - in post #34 of this thread IS the mix that Phillthy uses.

Pictures 3 and 4 in post #30 are also plants from his garden, grown in that mix.



About all there is online for it...

http://www.trademarkia.com/gardeners-pride-78461361.html

And a picture, although this is my full mix (unamended):

4 gal soil
1.5 gal peat
1.5 gal coir
1 gal EWC
3 gal perlite

NSPB

Looks good...should hold water very well. Looks like one of those mixes (much like mine) which requires absolute attention to watering per plant/container size,temp,etc. To me these are the best mixes,I don't want to be watering every two days....and the soil life needs that moisture for building their freeways.

 

[NSPB]

Honestly, that mix "jiggles" much like you would expect jello to. I can't really explain it any other way. It is soooooo very wonderful!

And honestly, watering is never much of a concern. Depending on the plants, most things can be watered every third day (in a container with healthy roots...regardless the size). I always make sure there is zero run off when I water. I do not like anything escaping my plants. But for a basic example, say a 2 gallon container will take about 20-30oz of water every third day to keep proper moisture levels...very efficient.



NSPB

 

[enjia2000]

I've used soil that was 0/0/0 to start. Added nutrients twice and had a fine plant.

 

[Iron_Lion]

Mix A - in post #34 of this thread IS the mix that Phillthy uses.

Pictures 3 and 4 in post #30 are also plants from his garden, grown in that mix.

Plants look dank. My current mix has all of those ingredients plus much more but I am not able to "just add water", I dont have to do much but its not quite as easy as that.

What type of "soil" are you using in that mix?

 

[guest2012y]

Honestly, that mix "jiggles" much like you would expect jello to. I can't really explain it any other way. It is soooooo very wonderful!

And honestly, watering is never much of a concern. Depending on the plants, most things can be watered every third day (in a container with healthy roots...regardless the size). I always make sure there is zero run off when I water. I do not like anything escaping my plants. But for a basic example, say a 2 gallon container will take about 20-30oz of water every third day to keep proper moisture levels...very efficient.



NSPB

I guess I should have said it's not much concern for people who have polished their watering skills....for the beginner it could be tricky though.

My mix (depending on plant/pot/temp) usually can go 4 days max...and that's not letting it get dry. I use topsoil from my back yard instead of bagged soils,but any good topsoil would pretty much give similar results. Upon recycling I always add more compost....pretty neat how it keeps getting better.

 

[NSPB]

Plants look dank. My current mix has all of those ingredients plus much more but I am not able to "just add water", I dont have to do much but its not quite as easy as that.

What type of "soil" are you using in that mix?

Look at post #43 in this thread for a picture of the soil I have been using. (Going on 5 years now, if not longer, with that same soil. I LOVE IT.)

You should also know that Phillthy gets excellent results because his environmental conditions are perfect. He uses a CHHC-1 with air conditioning, dehumidifier and a CO2 burner. If ALL aspects of the room are fully dialed in to a "T"...seeing the results of a mix or alterations made to a mix and how that affects the plants becomes 10x easier. On a side note, Phillthy will tell you that he DOES have some small cal/mg issues from time to time of certain plants. (OG/Chem lines and their dominant crosses)

*https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3910745&postcount=413

Dial in your environment. Make happy soil. The plants will respond as nature has encoded them to do so. The plants can only do what the environmental stimuli around them dictate. I often like to think, I don't GROW plants...they do that all on their own.



NSPB

 

[One Love 731]

Thanks to all that have added to this thread, I am going to learn the just add water method with a lil help from my friends here on ICmag. I have been doin great with ebb n flo coco with cns17 but am ready to learn how the old schoolers do. What would be a good mix for moms? I have some very solid genetics that need to be kept more than one way so there is no chance of a loss. Thanks to all. Karma, One Love

 

[Nigel]

>>>`

>>>`

HOw much worm castings would ya'll reccomend for this mix here? from post#33 >>>

-Thanks

Mix A

Base Mix:
1/2 Bale Pro Mix
1 Bag FFOF

Add:
1 cup bone meal
1 cup blood meal
1 cup dolomite lime
earthworm castings

Simple. Works.

 

[staff11]

and if you are using dechlorinated tap water or well water, you should cut the lime approx. in half.

What if you are using tap water that is 173 TDS, Hardness of 152 CaCO3 mg/L, 35.8 Ca mg/L, 11.6 Mg mg/L, and a 7.4 Ph?

 

[Doobie Nyce]

What if you are using tap water that is 173 TDS, Hardness of 152 CaCO3 mg/L, 35.8 Ca mg/L, 11.6 Mg mg/L, and a 7.4 Ph?

perfect!! sounds a lot like my well water.... high PPMs of delicious cal and mg. Its like there is lime in your water!
The high PPms make the high PH have that effect on your soilmix!!
Likewise, if your water has low to no PPMs, the PH of the water has no effect on your soilmix.

If you have a soil PH meter, try to mix your soil to come out with a ph of about six.... every time you add water, it will bump your medium up around 6.5... thats how I do.

But I mean... you can definitely just feel it out. I would try cutting the lime in half, and if you see ph or calmag issues, adjust with a high PH topdressing, and next time use a bit more!

PEACE!

 

[The Strain Man]

Here's a recipe for starting out using off-the-shelf stuff. The male I showed a pic of relied more on recycled soil, which was amended a bit then cooked for awhile (actually some stuff was composted in the soil too) and earthworm castings.

This is the latest version from the grower I snagged the pic from and this recipe is geared to work with pure water sources only, or else you risk Mg x Ca ratios going to hell and results will then vary.

BASE MIX
2 gal Ocean Forrest (or good organic soil mix)
2 gal Coir (coconut fiber)
2 gal Perlite (small nugget size)
2 gal Castings (earthworm castings, or fresh compost works too)

AMENDMENTS
1.5 cup All Purpose or Bloom (Organicare Pure) OR 1 cup 5-5-5 such as Fox Farm
1 cup Greensand
1 cup Ground Oyster Shells
2 cup Crushed Oyster Shells
½ cup (heaping) Powdered Dolomite Lime
½ cup Prilled (pelletized) Dolomite Lime
½ cup Blood Meal (or High N Bird Guano 12-8-2 NPK if flowering)
½ cup heaping un-steamed Bone Meal
¾ cup Bulb Food - Fox Farm (3-8-8)
½ cup Soft Rock Phosphate powdered
1 cup Gypsum powdered
1 cup Kelp Meal

½ cup Zeolite or Azomite granular **optional
½ cup Humate granular **optional
1 cup Alfalfa Meal (or 2 cup pellets) **optional
1 cup Rock Phosphate Granular **optional
1 cup organic rice **optional

FLOOR: Steer Manure + Coir/Perlite + Crushed & Ground Oyster Shells

SPIKES: Blood/Feather Meal + Ground Oyster (+ Steamed Bone Meal and Bulb Food added if flowering) and kelp or alfalfa meal.

This mix should be moistened (Do not get it soaking wet!) with chlorine free water, and turned over every few days, for about 7-10 days before use. With something like 7 or 8 weeks don't use spikes, with something 16 weeks (LoL) use spikes and the floor additions. Also keep in mind different genetics have different needs nutrient-wise. Some can do great with smaller levels of nutrients present while others are food hogs huge, and that is not relative to flowering time. So you can adjust this mix accordingly, but do not fear the strength cuz it is all buffered prime! For spikes add 2 each veg and flower at transplant in the fresh soil.

I tried a mix simular to this mix and my runoff was 6000+ ppm do any of you guys flush your medium prior to planting?

 

[The Strain Man]

ok I checked It again run off is at 3200 ppm I know this is a super soil but it maybe a little too super!