It's the CLUBS not the GROWERS!!!

[DiscoBiscuit]

Don't need to show you that and we win, people are paying 300 an oz and more for marijuana, supply and demand, price is set at what the market will bear. Free market!

hybrid market - nothing free about black market mark-up short-changing free market wholesale. I guess you've got the freedom to say nay to $1200/lb.

How may times do I have to tell you that man, you cannot argue with that. As long as people need what I have, they will pay whatever they can justify for it and price is set. Sounds like you are just on the wrong damn side of the equation man.

Nah, he's on the objective side of buyer idealism. You make for better subjective idealism as a seller than the street corner dancer. But it basically is what it is because of the fence between legal and illegal.

Suppy and demand, market sets price, that to me is an end game in this thread. Watermelons, tobacco, tomatos, are NOT marijuana. People pay what they pay. Sounds like you should try and smoke what you can afford.

When pay what they pay drifts from the black market, exorbitant prices will follow a free market that hasn't yet manifested. So what if the cop dances with dude on the corner? We're still seeing black market mark up.

 

[dagnabit]

it's legal in california (see 215/420)

ounces are the same price they were prior to that legality.
the inverse relationship between legality and price does not hold up to this REAL WORLD application.


those who think growers just "water some dirt" twice a week and produce medicine are the same ones who think when mj becomes "legal" (which it already is) it will go for $100.00 an ounce for top shelf.

we wont be able to convince them otherwise so let them believe in that dream.

just to watch the two of you gyrate....

Show me the guy buying a $300 oz of tobacco and you win.

When Altadis of Spain launched their “Behike” cigars, they were the most expensive cigars in the world. The expensive cigars were reportedly named after the tribal chief or sorcerer of the Cuban/pre-Colombian Taino tribe. A mere four thousand of the limited edition Cohiba brand cigars have been released and each box includes forty expensive cigars and allegedly retails for around $18,846. Yes, the expensive cigar will cost you $420 for each smoke.

btw they are NOT the most expensive tobacco product in the world

#winning?

 

[ganjasuiteseat]

wut the firest club through out the cali scene?????thanks peace

 

[dagnabit]

So what if the cop dances with dude on the corner? We're still seeing black market mark up.

so if it's not legal now..
the the burden of definition lies with you.

ive stated it is legal in california.
i've sited
Health and Safety Code 11357 possession, 11358 cultivation, 11359 intent to sell, 11360sales and transportation, 11361 diversion to minors, 11362.5 Prop 215 medical use, 11362.7 SB 420 medical marijuana program, collectives, 11362.9 SB 420 scientific research, 11364 praphernalia, 11364.5, 11364.7, 11365 aid and abet, 11366 maintaining a place, 11570 nuisance laws,
Medical Marijuana: Health and Safety § 11362.5 / Prop 215

nothing conjecture or subjective here but your ranting...

so if you feel MJ is still illegal please define legal and we will have honest discourse on the relationship between legality and price.

or just keep gyrating.

or go buy a sack with your card and see if you get arrested.
but if you keep it below an ounce even without a card..

Except as authorized by law, every person who possesses not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis, is guilty of an infraction punishable by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100).

 

[dagnabit]

wut the firest club through out the cali scene?????thanks peace

yes?

 

[kmk420kali]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dagnabit again

It is not the Growers or the Dispensaries...it is the Consumers!!
As long as ppl pay the price, the price will be charged-- Pretty friggin' simple!!
I have spent many hours working at the D...and seen many go through there, and they were all Happy as Fuck, to buy their weed!!
This is not a "Blame Game"...just if you're gonna lay blame, lay it where it belongs--

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

it's legal in california (see 215/420)

It's so legal that dispensaries and growers are getting busted. Apparently by the feds (dea) and jurisdictional. It's not the totality or lack of I'm rebutting. By all appearances, legal and illegal players morphed into quazi legality and the disparity in returns speaks for itself. More disparity than Wall Street. Madoff bragged of 10% returns and schemed the take. Twenty percent, thirty percent and more net-profits are flowing with so-called legal dispensaries.

ounces are the same price they were prior to that legality.
the inverse relationship between legality and price does not hold up to this REAL WORLD application.

Thus your $400 to $300 disparity in a week of debating? If I borrowed a dag, I'd suggest you not only recognize what's being suggested, you're verifying it first hand.

Predictions of the future, replete with quantitative details is subjective seller idealism.

those who think growers just "water some dirt" twice a week and produce medicine are the same ones who think when mj becomes "legal" (which it already is) it will go for $100.00 an ounce for top shelf.

Sorry... objective market reasoning trumps subjective idealism. The only objective aspects of your reality is past and present. Present is only as long as the current situation allows.

we wont be able to convince them otherwise so let them believe in that dream.

Dreaming would be subjective seller reasoning. It's a free country, you can always dream. But reality rears it's ugly head in the form of supply, demand and competition. As for legal, you'll see more legal when reform takes more definitive shape.

You've backed yourself in a corner again. You claim legality but regulation hasn't materialized past 30% and more profits. I offer you'd discount that future reality. Thus the corner.

just to watch the two of you gyrate....

btw they are NOT the most expensive tobacco product in the world

#winning?

Glad you typed a question mark. It represents the future much better than dogmatic assertion.

Quality aspects won't disappear with legalization any more than a so-called legal market with black market pricing. Any more, one doesn't just get ferked by the criminal element. Now it's a so-called legal entity that embraces the same, black market strategy in mark up, while screwing the suppliers and consumers.

I also get what isn't being said. As long as somebody else is doing it, so will __________. Get it while you may.

Do you see the disparity in rebuttal toward sound reasoning (it is what it is) and seller idealism (it is what it's gonna be)?

The sound reasoning gets far less realistic rebuttal. Regardless of the circumstances, it is what it is. There's not an argument in the book that says it isn't present reality. In fact, sorry suckas is prophetic in simplicity and reality.

Unfortunately, rebuttal toward (narrow), seller idealism that predicts the future is like skeet practice.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It is not the Growers or the Dispensaries...it is the Consumers!!
As long as ppl pay the price, the price will be charged-- Pretty friggin' simple!!
I have spent many hours working at the D...and seen many go through there, and they were all Happy as Fuck, to buy their weed!!
This is not a "Blame Game"...just if you're gonna lay blame, lay it where it belongs--

It's simple alright. We've got a gray market.

Try to support what the D is doing to suppliers if you think buyers are happy as fuck. Both ends are getting screwed by the same component with a twin d*ck.

 

[dagnabit]

i have yet to see sound reasoning..
just subjective hoping.

"when it becomes legal(it already is) ounces will cost $100.00)

no sound reasoning there.

we have seen it become legal(unless you have some definition other than the one offered) and yet the price remains the same.

sound reasoning would say the inverse relationship you purport is in fact the fantasy you desire.

the price remains the same while the prohibition disappears "it is what it is"

 

[Weed-Luver]

dude. take away the risk factor, no one is paying you $300 an oz to water some plants an hour a day for 2 months.

louisXIII sold for $200 an oz takes 100 YEARS to blend. _100 YEARS_

gold isn't a safe business to trade in. Its "legal" but its not safe. you can't just have a store full gold with no security.

maybe "legal" is the hang up term here.

As long as selling bud is not "Safe" then it will have this premium... because the producers and distributors have costs to pay to remain safe.

As soon as people stop robbing people for it and you can buy it like other perishable goods...

well, I give up.

I can't predict the future.

I believe its terribly over priced now.

Even when its under priced, its over priced.

Bingo!!!! We have a winner!!..other than water plants an hour a-day(little more involved for well grown weed) you are correct..once the masses can grow their own, "good enough" will be good enough for some and for others like me it will be a gardners paradise..we all can't wait for those cosmos tomatoes after a long winter of having to buy tasteless maters at publix..
then everyone can argue whose garden is better..

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

i have yet to see sound reasoning..
just subjective hoping.

Applying basic capitalistic market principles ain't hoping. Hoping is for a market that doesn't share twin aspects [that] before mmj, weren't twins. Seller idealism or any idealism for that matter is hoping.

"when it becomes legal(it already is) ounces will cost $100.00)

no sound reasoning there.

I could offer the comment reflects buyer idealism no more than I could predict future pricing. Since I can't, I don't. What I try to offer isn't buyer idealism as much as market principles.

Your idea of legal suits your aspect. But you can't grow any more than the law allows. You can't sell to anybody the law disallows. You can't make a legal profit. So you're faced with the potential of borrowing black market pricing in your so-called legal scenario.

we have seen it become legal(unless you have some definition other than the one offered) and yet the price remains the same.

IMO, Cali has a lot of aspects to cover before legal is encompassing. You've got regulation that doesn't address 30% profits in non-profit entities. Tell the folks in Cali jurisdictional scrapes it's legal. That's why I previously avoided the gray aspect you oversimplify.

sound reasoning would say the inverse relationship you purport is in fact the fantasy you desire.

You're running out of argument if you can't make it. What is that, subliminal marketing? I've been marginalized into wanting what's against my better interests? You're not the only one suggesting that high prices are my friend.

the price remains the same while the prohibition disappears "it is what it is"

Not in your case. 14 years of certainty aggregates to losing $100/zip in a short week. You're tossing pricing like your clay pigeon reasoning examples.

It is what it is until it isn't. Anybody marking 30% retail can and may be regulated. And the way it's going, it'll be sooner than later.

I would opine that non-profit regulation has questionable enforcement. For that matter, players in Cali jurisdictional scrapes may be in their respective scrape over profit implications. Everybody has to be paid but non-profit suggests the non-profit entity doesn't bank profits.

 

[dagnabit]

so your saying the price has gone down in cali in relation to the risk of arrest?

so the price for ounces of top shelf is $20.00 per ounce?

im still hoping you step up to the plate like a big boy to define terms of debate.

i say it is legal now.
i site laws on the books now with referenced H&S code numbers to support the assertion.
if you want to debate the relationship between legality and price we must first define what those terms mean.
if you refuse to accept the offered definition of legal we can not procede.

snipe away...

 

[TruthOrLie]

#1 Its not legal.

The cops can rip you off, you can't do shit about it.

The feds can throw you in jail, you can't do shit about it.

You become a felon and lose your rights as a citizen.

You are denied disability benefits based on use.

#2 You chose something that is finite and extremely limited to compare to WEED.

You can't compare a limited edition rarity to something that grows EASILY in many places YEAR AFTER YEAR

I can sit here and tell you I have the rarest TruthOrLie edition Kush for $10,000 a gram and sell one gram and where does that put me on the totem pole?

Are you now trying to argue that some special skill is going into these $420 cigars, some magic the grower infuses to the tobacco? Or is this just marketing hype?

 

[dagnabit]

#1 Its not legal.

The cops can rip you off, you can't do shit about it.

The feds can throw you in jail, you can't do shit about it.

You become a felon and lose your rights as a citizen.

You are denied disability benefits based on use.

#2 You chose something that is finite and extremely limited to compare to WEED.

You can't compare a limited edition rarity to something that grows EASILY in many places YEAR AFTER YEAR

ok so define legal...
you dont like my definition but choose not to provide one so we are left to rely on mine...

tobacco "grows EASILY in many places YEAR AFTER YEAR"

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

so your saying the price has gone down in cali in relation to the risk of arrest?

Apparently you're making your own argument.

so the price for ounces of top shelf is $20.00 per ounce?

<< dag painting pictures - Try delegating and addressing your rebuttals instead of mixing them between others or between you and yourself.

im still hoping you step up to the plate like a big boy to define terms of debate.

Is there an un-split hair left on your posterior? What is big boy, dag minutia?

i say it is legal now.
i site laws on the books now with referenced H&S code numbers to support the assertion.

And you ignore whatever complicates your argument. I'm trying to stick to the subject. Remember the hyperbole accusations? Are you ignoring that Cali folks are still being arrested? Your blanket declarations of legality make for good hyperbole.

if you want to debate the relationship between legality and price we must first define what those terms mean.
if you refuse to accept the offered definition of legal we can not procede.

Sure thing, dag. Legality happens to be more comprehensive than you're willing to accept.

snipe away...

pot/kettle


BTW, are you a McCartney fan or is that dag acknowledgment of the homosexuals at Hooter's reference?

 

[TruthOrLie]

ok so define legal...
you dont like my definition but choose not to provide one so we are left to rely on mine...

tobacco "grows EASILY in many places YEAR AFTER YEAR"

if it was legal people could grow without fear of electrical issues.

if it was legal people could grow without odor control issues.

if it was legal kush would be in such abundance that stress would have no market.

weed cigarettes would be as plentiful as tobacco ones, if they even made those anymore.

the truth is, you MJ profiteers are only benefiting because of the DEA and their enforcement of those growers and distributors who aren't operating "up to code" which justifies those higher costs to the consumer.

You count on making the consumer pay for your gamble forever?

How come you don't grow heart shaped watermelons now that these Japanese ones are radioactive?

How come you don't roll $420 cigars?

Because you just don't know how, or because its against the law and you can go to jail for it?

Now, guess why I don't grow 100s of pounds of top shelf.

 

[dagnabit]

i do grow square melons.
it's easy.
to be honest i never thought of hearts till now.
as for tobacco i just wouldnt choose to grow it. it's harmful to people not helpful.
my square melons are a hit every year.
last year however i was completely killed by veronna mites(at least thats what i think killed the bees)
this year the cost is going up as i have to rent bees.

so in that diatribe i still did not get a true definition of legal.

something like
federal rescheduling to II
or federal unscheduling
maybe
regulated as an agricultural commodity
or
state medical regulations

 

[dagnabit]

Apparently you're making your own argument.

<< dag painting pictures - Try delegating and addressing your rebuttals instead of mixing them between others or between you and yourself.

Is there an un-split hair left on your posterior? What is big boy, dag minutia?

And you ignore whatever complicates your argument. I'm trying to stick to the subject. Remember the hyperbole accusations? Are you ignoring that Cali folks are still being arrested? Your blanket declarations of legality make for good hyperbole. Sure thing, dag. Legality happens to be more comprehensive than you're willing to accept.

pot/kettle


BTW, are you a McCartney fan or is that dag acknowledgment of the homosexuals at Hooter's reference?

no definition of terms anywhere in there...


as for the pic?

im a julian fan.
paul was the only "father" the poor boy had.

 

[redneck shogun]

those who think growers just "water some dirt" twice a week and produce medicine are the same ones who think when mj becomes "legal" (which it already is) it will go for $100.00 an ounce for top shelf.

I understand what you are saying. It is far more complicated growing fine cannabis than the general population understands. I just water dirt, but there is more to it than that. I do it that way to make it more simple process, the truth is I put all my work in to the grow at the start. But I have to say that there is no way a producer can have any effect on a free market unless they can control the supply so that the other guy doesn't undercut them. I am firmly in the camp that believes that you will see cannabis of all prices when it is legal federally. I can also say that the wal-mart of weed in this scenario will be the one getting rich on it, not the same people that are putting the food on the table for their family by growing it now. If you want to make a living you will have to go to wal-mart and be their slave for minimum wage. I'm hoping a natural disaster destroys the modern world by then.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

i do grow square melons.
it's easy.
to be honest i never thought of hearts till now.
as for tobacco i just wouldnt choose to grow it. it's harmful to people not helpful.
my square melons are a hit every year.
last year however i was completely killed by veronna mites(at least thats what i think killed the bees)
this year the cost is going up as i have to rent bees.

so in that diatribe i still did not get a true definition of legal.

Your diatribe? We've got your definition. It's as simplistic as your arguments.

Stop beating around the bush. You asked for the definition of legal. Then you tiptoed around legality of two Cali laws that aren't as narrow as your argument.

Now... let's have your definition of legal. Forget the micro of Cali reform. Just the straight up definition of legal... exactly like you request. Does a game of cards render you rules-challenged?

something like
federal rescheduling to II

and some Cali folks go to prison

or federal unscheduling

or - hasn't happened yet. Doesn't matter if you're declaring Cali's legal. On the other hand, you make a good stab at what might happen if and when we get comprehensive reform.

The if and when is what you've been ignoring or narrowly arguing against. Are you setting up your own rebuttal, backtracking or both?

maybe
regulated as an agricultural commodity
or
state medical regulations

Are we spoon-feeding your next avenue? Your book appears to be showing shades of gray. Welcome to the club.