is this how you breed quality genetics?

[Weird]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130624093524.htm

Biological Arithmetic: Plants Do Sums to Get Through the Night

June 24, 2013 — New research shows that to prevent starvation at night, plants perform accurate arithmetic division. The calculation allows them to use up their starch reserves at a constant rate so that they run out almost precisely at dawn.

 

[Weird]

Maternal effects provide phenotypic adaptation to local environmental conditions

Keywords: adaptive plasticity; environmental heterogeneity; intergenerational plasticity; maternal effects; patch size; phenotypic adaptation; seed dispersal

Summary

In outcrossing plants, seed dispersal distance is often less than pollen movement. If the scale of environmental heterogeneity within a population is greater than typical seed dispersal distances but less than pollen movement, an individual's environment will be similar to that of its mother but not necessarily its father. Under these conditions, environmental maternal effects may evolve as a source of adaptive plasticity between generations, enhancing offspring fitness in the environment that they are likely to experience. This idea is illustrated using Campanula americana, an herb that grows in understory and light-gap habitats. Estimates of seed dispersal suggest that offspring typically experience the same light environment as their mother. In a field experiment testing the effect of open vs understory maternal light environments, maternal light directly influenced offspring germination rate and season, and indirectly affected germination season by altering maternal flowering time. Results to date indicate that these maternal effects are adaptive; further experimental tests are ongoing. Evaluating maternal environmental effects in an ecological context demonstrates that they may provide phenotypic adaptation to local environmental conditions.

 

[gloryoskie]

Plants are very good at what they do.

So the more I feed my plants, the more they grow.

Good to know. : )

 

[Weird]

https://www.soils.org/publications/cs/abstracts/50/3/775?access=0&view=article



Genotype × Environment Effects on Single-Plant Selection at Low Density for Yield and Stability in Climbing Dry Bean Populations

Breeders ought to consider the confounding effects of the environment and genotype × environment (G × E) interaction on response to early generation selection. To meet this requirement, honeycomb breeding was performed at a low density within two dry bean populations (Phaseolus vulgaris L.) under typical open-field conditions and in an adjacent greenhouse. Nineteen progeny lines were formed through selection of nine and ten of the highest-yielding plants in the greenhouse and the field, respectively. Honeycomb progeny testing at the low density in the two distinct environments showed up to 75% improvement in plant-yield potential. Under farming-density conditions in five environments, six of the lines outyielded the respective original population by 12 to 38% and exhibited the greatest stability according to the genotype and genotype × environment (GGE) biplot model. At low density, the greenhouse evaluation demonstrated less acquired variance than the field evaluation and was especially useful for selection and progeny evaluation. Three of the six outstanding lines originated from the greenhouse. Honeycomb progeny estimation on a single-plant yield basis in the greenhouse, rather than in the field, gave a better prediction of yield potential on an area basis. The results showed that honeycomb breeding performed in two environments to address the G × E interaction may be successful for developing varieties that exhibit both high and stable productivity.

 

[Weird]

seems that controlled environment means something

 

[Aardwolf]

It means it's controlled weird that is all.

To make things easier to grasp. The only control needed is to ensure that the indoor grow room has perfect conditions, then, no matter what, that 'limiting factor' can be taken off of the breeders variable list for the current evaluation of the plants performance.

Environment matters when looking at the day-length that is required to induce flowering and differentiate the phenotypes that suit early mid and late flowering in the species, temperature also plays another large role in the given environmental characteristics and these two factors are critical to make an accurate conclusion of what was propagated.

This is where breeding plants for a target environment under HPS with a short grow season rich in nutriments differ from creating a superior outdoor performer. While one generally only fits a niche the other is the potential all rounder. After all, you need to discover the potential of the breed and know that it finishes and starts during the natural growing season.

 

[Infinitesimal]

this thread is pretty damn funny... and damned in general...



it can be easily summarized...



in the beginning, from post #1 - 318, the thread went something like this..













and since, from post # 318 and on to the present, the thread has turned into something more like this...

 

[Weird]

It means it's controlled weird that is all.

To make things easier to grasp. The only control needed is to ensure that the indoor grow room has perfect conditions, then, no matter what, that 'limiting factor' can be taken off of the breeders variable list for the current evaluation of the plants performance.

exactly my point and as I referenced in more than one study it effects phenotype expression and selection for breeding.

your making a contention out of something I am not contending I am citing it as a basis for my inclusion of environment as a factor in a breeding program

might seem irrelevant to you but to someone buying seed looking over vendors might who have the genes they want knowing the environmental involved in the breeding program that created said genes is relevant

to a breeder who already has those considerations considered it may not

seems too many people are so highly focused on how they accomplish a breeding objective that they forget they are an environmental variable as well

Environment matters when looking at the day-length that is required to induce flowering and differentiate the phenotypes that suit early mid and late flowering in the species, temperature also plays another large role in the given environmental characteristics and these two factors are critical to make an accurate conclusion of what was propagated.

far more environmental biases, as sam suggested might be a good topic for a thread

This is where breeding plants for a target environment under HPS with a short grow season rich in nutriments differ from creating a superior outdoor performer. While one generally only fits a niche the other is the potential all rounder.

agreed but remember the study i cited that tested robust performers against niche performers the niche performers out performed the robust one in their target environment

so the value of either breeding program now becomes subjective to breeder objective and consumer desire, there is no one results is universally better than the other

After all, you need to discover the potential of the breed and know that it finishes and starts during the natural growing season.

even when they are medical strains meant for greenhouse or indoor production?

 

[JimmyMacElroy]

Hi everyone.

I thought I would contribute some stuff for you to consider.

The mechanisms of inheritance and adaptation are complex indeed. To say they are not fully understood is an understatement at best.

For the classical “gene centered” folks, I would encourage you to look at the material I am linking to, and think about it. Just because the folks flogging environment in this thread have made a sub-optimal presentation of non-genetic inheritance does not mean that there is nothing to it.

For the people on the other side, I would encourage you to gain a fuller understanding of the standard gene-centered breeding that has been so incredibly successful for the last century or so. Most of your comments indicate to me that you are missing out on some really good stuff. Full understanding of the non-genetic parts of inheritance is not possible without it. You can also make more persuasive contributions for the people that have invested the time in understanding the conventional wisdom when it comes to plant breeding.


USEFUL TERMS TO LOOK UP

For gene-centered folks:

*epiallele
*paramutation
*retrotransposon

For the other folks

*heritability
*read some textbooks about genetics


INTERESTING LINKS:


Epigenetic contribution to stress adaptation in plants

Epigenetic mechanisms in plants and their implications in plant breeding

Epigenetics and Plant Breeding



Here is a guy who is doing cutting-edge research on this topic, his publications are listed at the bottom of the page:

Jay B Hollick

Here is his latest (incredibly interesting) paper:

required to maintain repression2 Is a Novel Protein That
Facilitates Locus-Specific Paramutation in Maize

(That is the correct title, even though it looks like I cut the front off. "required to maintain repression2" is the name of a protein.)

Ill will is the enemy of useful discussion.

mofeta

I have always likened the epigenetic stuff to genetic assimilation and then to canalisation - capacitance etc etc
Therefore if it were so and the aim was to have a plant to suit most environments, surely we should seek out the aberrant plants by stress methods for they should be the ones to suit most environments should they not? as these freaks will be revealing their hidden variance! perhaps northern lights would be a useful test for such thinking (as it is certainly been picked for one end of the bell curve and thus has robustness for the indoor but will the aberrant ones have it for outdoor)...

it starts to get a bit Lamarckian, and certain people certainly rule all that out!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16250465
http://www.genetics.org/content/149/4/2119.full
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/209/12/2362.full

(not sure I have conveyed what I want to succinctly enough, had to re write it enough as the damn thing keeps logging me out!)

 

[offthehook]

agreed but remember the study i cited that tested robust performers against niche performers the niche performers out performed the robust one in their target environment

so the value of either breeding program now becomes subjective to breeder objective and consumer desire, there is no one results is universally better than the other

This was an interesting study and made me wonder something...

How would the niche performers perform in compare to robust performers when it comes to mold resistence?

Like if you would grow many plants very densely toghether and create an environment for mold to thrive as a selection method for finding the most mold resistend plants...

In compare to, growing them up individually in lots of space where they are not likely to get mold, and then trying to select for the most mold resistend ones.

I got no any idiea on the outcome of this, but what would be your best guess Wierd? And since I value your opinion a lot, maybe you'd be willing to explain the 'why's' to that also.(But only if you like or possibly can ofc.)

 

[Weird]

if your breeding for resistance you wont be able to measure it without either testing it through exposure to that pathogen or by knowing what genes control resistance and measuring them

here is a study on the impact of genotype-environment interactions on the inheritance of wheat yield in low-yielding environments

Abstract

Complete F1 and F2 diallel crosses were used to investigate the inheritance of yield among eight Ugandan bread wheat lines grown in two low-yielding environments; one marginal because of the high incidence of yellow rust normally experienced there, the other a low-rust site. In the marginal, high-rust environment, mainly additive genetic variation was present, though in one season, when disease incidence was unusually low, non-additive variation due to dominance was also detected. Although yield was significantly higher at the low-rust site, no clear pattern of inheritance was apparent there. The results indicated that the low rust site was an intermediate environment, just below the crossover point of a crossover genotype-environment interaction. The implications of these results for wheat breeding in low-yielding and marginal environments in Uganda and elsewhere are discussed.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1003444509455

 

[Weird]

ill tell you this I wouldn't select progeny from an environment without mold to judge mold resistance on.

 

[Coba]

is ganja the last breeding frontier?

 

[offthehook]

Thanks a tonne for telling me this Weird I could imagine it the other way around too, but just wasn't sure.

Glad to know I seem to be doing it right.

 

[gloryoskie]

Everyone has grown moldy bud.

Then you get a dehumidifier.

THC is easy.

Terpene profile, terpine profile, terpine profile.

Breed for that, okay?

 

[offthehook]

Hard to hook up a dehumidifier in guerilla 'middle of nowhere' Finland @ 65 gloryoskie, lol

 

[gloryoskie]

Hard to hook up a dehumidifier in guerilla 'middle of nowhere' Finland @ 65 gloryoskie, lol

Everybody's a comedian. Lol!

Here you go:

 

[offthehook]

lol

 

[frito bandito]

Anyone trying to do breeding work in "perfectly controlled conditions" is a fool, who is creating shit strains that will be exposed as garbage the minute some other person tries to grow and use them. If you want to breed hardy strains, as opposed to bullshit you have to babysit and coddle, then you have to be tough on them each and every generation and breed only the best.

 

[frito bandito]

Neg rep from the DJ Short nutswingers commencing in 3...2...