is there any substitute for Canna Nutrients that still offers that sweet, full flavour??

[Muarco]

Very interesting. Can you help us out and tell us what specific Canna nute line and additives you are using and also the 3 others you tried? Might help narrow it down a bit

Ex Canna user here. I’ve been running Canna complete line (pH+,pH-, CannaCure, etc.) for over 4 years now and just switched to Athena last run. I also noticed a change in taste running the same phenos. I feel is mostly due to the Boost and Cannazym which are the two best products from their line. Personally I’ll give Athena another run since it broke my previous yield record, just wish it wouldn’t compromise so much on smoke quality. Also, last time I didn’t run Stack but this time I’m replacing it with an Hydrolized Kelp which is basically the same but a 1/10th of the cost.

 

[Cannamatrix]

hmmmm I wonder what it would do to run Athena with those two canna boosters?? LOL I know you arent supposed to mix but maybe thats the key. The Mills brand guy swore by their flavour but he clearly has never tried Canna.

 

[Muarco]

hmmmm I wonder what it would do to run Athena with those two canna boosters?? LOL I know you arent supposed to mix but maybe thats the key. The Mills brand guy swore by their flavour but he clearly has never tried Canna.

Can’t really mix any organics with Athena if you’re running Cleanse. It’s hypochlorous acid and it basically kills anything organic. Also for someone using drip emitters it would defeat the whole purpose of running a salt based line. I guess you could as well just eat up the price of replacing the emitters and drip lines every couple of years. Will see in the next run

 

[i.love.scotch]

Ok so as I understand your main priorities here are cost and flavour.

Cost is easy, flavour is going to be way harder to figure out. You'll have to just try them all out I think!

So your Canna nutrients are just salts in water basically but there are two factors to every nutrient salt formulation.

1) What specific salts they put in and at what ratio, think of this as the 'recipe' of their salt mixture

2) The quality of those specific 'ingredients' (the salts)

Since Canna is a high cost line, I'm assuming the salts they use are a very high quality and also I have read that they are one of the only brands that actually has a really good nutrient profile specifically for cannabis. Apparently too much potassium is available in most other off the shelf nutrient lines, especially if you run coco.

And also those additives you mentioned might also make quite a difference.

Now, since cost is a priority, you might as well start at the bottom price range and see if it's any good for you. It will be the least cost to experiment with and if you do end up liking it then you will have the least cost going forward.

Here is a good cheap recipe:

The Cheapest And Easiest Nutrient Lineup - Open Salts

opensalts.wikidot.com

Now that one uses Jacks as a base, which are quality salts and quite inexpensive.

You could go even cheaper by buying your own individual salts and micros and making your own mix but that would be a bit more.in depth considering you don't even know if you'll like the flavour. I'd say go with Jack's to start they are probably the best quality/price ratio for a ready made mix.

If you look up Dr Coco he has some pretty good in depth discussion about canna specific nutrients. Apparently General Hydro Trio at the right ratios (the he recommends) works almost as good as Canna.

I would avoid Athena. They are expensive, use bad tactics like mixing their N into their micro product so you can't use generic CalNit and they also use nasty dyes. They are basically like a super expensive, tainted Jack's and they command you to run at 3.0ec which is absurd.

Anyway in the salt quality front, it's not really public information where all of these nutrient formulating companies actually source their bulk salts. But there certainly could be a quality difference between some bulk salts that are 'agriculture' grade vs other that are 'pharmaceutical' grade. I have read that a lot of the companies just buy bulk individual salts from Haifa and mix them to their proprietary ratios. I'm not sure if there are other large multinational salt suppliers or how that whole game works but apparently Haifa is quality.

So yeah I would say overall start with one of the cheapest which would be Jack's and see if you like it. If not then try the Jacks base with your Canna additives and see if they are the 'special sauce' to the flavour you are after. I'd they are then great, you know that you can run cheap base nutes and only shell out for the pricey additives.

If you don't like Jack's even with your Canna additives then it's the base salts that are the issue. So I would to a step up with those. Something quality in between Jacks and Canna I would be something like the brand Crop Salt. They have none of the BS such as big brands like Athena and people seem to like the quality they get from it

Edit: I forgot another cheap and easy one you can try would be the KISS method with Maxibloom. This will give you an idea of you like the flavour of the General Hydroponics lines

Edit 2: and if you want to go for a really deep drive then refer to user George's comments here he goes in depth on the nutrient ratios in various lines including Canna. Calcium is the talk of the town these days and apparently high calcium is key for clean burn. Turns out Canna is super high calcium as George breaks down in that thread. It gets super complicated though it's not like you can just add a tonne of calcium to stuff cause all of the ratios affect each other

why? Jacks and calcium nitrate

Revisiting this as I'm right back where I was when I originally wrote the thread. Thank you so much for the info. Curious if anyone's learned any new developments?

www.icmag.com

 

[weedemart]

Without going into too much detail, all fertilizers are formulated with the same ingredients with some difference depending on the prescribed use. This is where the ratio comes into play: fruit plants do not require the same needs as foliage plants. For example, Athena is a formula very rich in potassium, suitable for growing tomatoes but mediocre for cannabis while dynagro foliage pro is ideal for cannabis (fertilizer rich in nitrogen). The main engine of nutrition in the cannabis is nitrogen so look for a fertilizer richer in nitrogen than in potassium and phosphorus.

As for calcium, it goes hand in hand with calcium nitrate which is the best source of nitrogen so quality fertilizers are always rich in calcium.

The bottom line is that cannabis requires more nitrogen than potassium and phosphorus combined! So choose your fertilizer accordingly.

 

[weedemart]

And for the taste. This is the whole art of fertilization. The more you fertilize, the more the plant produces but the quality decreases. This is the principle of dilution; the plant will produce more mass but this mass will be less rich in organic compounds such as terpenes and THC. Moreover, the microbiology of the rhizosphere plays a very important role in the development of these same compounds.

BTW, Most additives are nothing more than a dream in a bottle. The only additives that have any real value are potassium silicate and beneficial microbes.

 

[HarleyJammer]

Subcool was the man...RIP. His genetics rocked the house. Have his soil recipe as well as Ed Rosenthals...just nothing for hydro.

I grew Subcool's Jack the Ripper, Ripped Bubba, and another strain I forgot the name. I used them in a backyard testing for strains to treat a congenital neuropathy.. Jack the Ripper proved to hold efficacy in treating my disease. I lost the cut and we lost Subcool. RIP Dave.

 

[Muarco]

Without going into too much detail, all fertilizers are formulated with the same ingredients with some difference depending on the prescribed use. This is where the ratio comes into play: fruit plants do not require the same needs as foliage plants. For example, Athena is a formula very rich in potassium, suitable for growing tomatoes but mediocre for cannabis while dynagro foliage pro is ideal for cannabis (fertilizer rich in nitrogen). The main engine of nutrition in the cannabis is nitrogen so look for a fertilizer richer in nitrogen than in potassium and phosphorus.

As for calcium, it goes hand in hand with calcium nitrate which is the best source of nitrogen so quality fertilizers are always rich in calcium.

The bottom line is that cannabis requires more nitrogen than potassium and phosphorus combined! So choose your fertilizer accordingly.

Actually Nitrogen it’s what leaves you a bitter taste and worst burning consistency due to the higher chlorophyll associated with it. That’s why Athena cuts N on the last weeks. Most nutrient lines will always include nitrogen in their calcium in the form of calcium nitrate and it’s the cheapest and most available form of calcium. The problem is that you keep feeding your plants nitrogen up until harvest. Plants feeding doesn’t always require the same nutrients balance and changing it accordingly it’s a precious skill that only time teaches you.

Canna it’s so good at what it does because it uses a mix of mineral and organic nutrients thus using the best of both worlds. Minerals for the size and organic for the taste. The main drawback is the higher maintenance on the drip lines and filters. The organics products in the line it’s also the reason why Canna it’s considered “more expensive”. The Boost for example contains triacontanol which is quite expensive to source.

That been said, I’m currently giving Athena another chance but if it doesn’t make the cut I’ll just go back to Canna. I don’t mind paying a bit more and having to clean my drippers if the taste speaks volumes

 

[justheretolearn]

I sure can. I use Bio Canna for hydro...I use everything (though it seems a lot of members suggest not using them) I use it very weak...almost half what it calls to use.

I use Gaia Green (many additives as well as the dry veg formulation) for my outdoor (and soil mums) at the lake as well as dead fish and millfoil. On the farm (sadly) we use a lot of farmer type ferts as I dont have a lot of say out there. so that means green pellets that are high in nitrogen that he uses for his corn as well as my always hated Miracle grow. He loves that shit....

I have used the powdered six pack (my first grow), canna (my second and third), advanced nutrients my fourth...(hate the taste of this one the most), some dutch nutrients, Growtek and more recently Mills (from a sample from a European guy I met at the Lift Expo in Toronto) and rootfarm from Canadian Tire (which shockingly isn't terrible). I've tried way more than four but not always the entire line as I was always given samples from my local hydro shop when I was friendly with the owner.

Ive been growing for a lot of years but find that I dont like the taste of the finished product with a lot of nutes...the additive I hate the most is BRIX as it makes everything taste the same! what is the point of different strains if they are to taste the same???

hi mate thanks for making this post i have been helping a buddy of mine with his grow and tasting the final product and every strain he done tasted abit off, hes been using advanced nutrients in coco and now after seeing this i bet that is the cuplrit to the taste not being great. do you think he will be able to use the hydro canna nutrients that you use in his coco? i see they do the canna coco A+B do you think that would still have good taste ?, thanks

 

[SuperFarang]

B.A.C Holland
the hydro line has the red chelated iron (like canna aqua)
but its more suited for our plant (pk booster for second half of bloom) than canna

canna do not understand you cant use the same npk profile for the whole bloom

 

[Hiddenjems]

If you want simple just use gh flora pro powders, or jacks 321.

 

[CaptainDankness]

Jacks Classic all purpose and bloom booster, haven't looked back for years, does just as good as any cannabis specific nutrient lines I've tried and saves a hell of a lot of time measuring some bullshit 3 part watered down overpriced nutrients.

 

[weedemart]

hi mate thanks for making this post i have been helping a buddy of mine with his grow and tasting the final product and every strain he done tasted abit off, hes been using advanced nutrients in coco and now after seeing this i bet that is the cuplrit to the taste not being great. do you think he will be able to use the hydro canna nutrients that you use in his coco? i see they do the canna coco A+B do you think that would still have good taste ?, thanks

maybe AN is poor quality but when taste is affected its mostly overfeeding.And yes any quality synthetic nutrients will work.Canna coco will do best for your friend

 

[Muarco]

B.A.C Holland
the hydro line has the red chelated iron (like canna aqua)
but its more suited for our plant (pk booster for second half of bloom) than canna

canna do not understand you cant use the same npk profile for the whole bloom

Canna literally tells you to add PK 13/14 in order to offset the NPK ratio in flower. You just don’t know how to use your nutrients my friend.

 

[justheretolearn]

maybe AN is poor quality but when taste is affected its mostly overfeeding.And yes any quality synthetic nutrients will work.Canna coco will do best for your friend

thanks mate, will get him on the canna coco A+B and see how he gets on this time.

 

[weedemart]

Canna literally tells you to add PK 13/14 in order to offset the NPK ratio in flower. You just don’t know how to use your nutrients my friend.

It just proof his point that canna is designed to drain customer pockets.

But I dont think canna tells anyone to add pk13/14 anyway. Even if its on their nutrients schedule, it's not a MUST HAVE products. They just followed the trends and put some price additive around their good base nutrients. It's all part of their marketing agenda. A lot of customer fall in this trap.

In fact you dont need it at all. The only reason you see an effect from it, is because you add significant amount of phosphorus. It increase yield yes. It make weed taste bad too. Good for tomatoes tho.

If you can't do it from start to finish with 2 parts, change nutrients.

 

[Hiddenjems]

All you need is a good base nutrient while raising ec through the cycle.

Currently I’m trying out gh Florapro powders. Using nothing but calcium + micros, and late bloom I’m getting great results. Large dense flowers with lots of resin.

The best part is no matter what nutrient system I’ve tried, I’ve been able to stay around $10 in nutrients per lb of dried flower.


It is funny watching people buy separate bottles of nutrients that are already in their 2, or 3 part base nute.

 

[SuperFarang]

Canna literally tells you to add PK 13/14 in order to offset the NPK ratio in flower. You just don’t know how to use your nutrients my friend.

canna advise a single application three weeks before harvest

very different from applying it continuously for the second half of bloom
much to learn you still have

 

[JKD]

canna advise a single application three weeks before harvest

https://other.canna.com/pk_13_14

• Add CANNA PK 13/14 three weeks before harvesting to a full nutrition tank in the following proportion: dissolve 15 ml concentrate per 10 litre of water (1:666). Add this mixture to the nutrient for 3-6 days

 

[SuperFarang]

I would use it until the end