Is everyone really using TRIACONTANOL incorrectly?

[BayBHuey]

Sup mrrangz,

Thanks for that bit of info. It is much appreciated. Yeah you just feel like the stuff isn't mixed right. I have been looking up a lot of info but no specifics on the stuff. I got this info from the place I ordered my tria. I highlighted in bold the things I have questions about if anyone knows please enlighten me. lol

Introduction Triacontanol is a natural long carbon chain plant growth regulator, it's applicable to a variety of crops, and has been widely used in agriculture, horticulture, and forestry.
Physical and chemical Properties
1. Appearance: The pure product is white flaky crystal;
2. Solubility: Triacontanol is insoluble in water, difficult to dissolve in cold ethanol, benzene, soluble in chloroform, methylene chloride. It's stable to heat. Light, air, heat and alkali;
3. Melting point: 80~87.5 ° c . Boiling point: under 66.66Pa is 244 degrees centigrade. Relative density: (88 °C ) of 0.777. Storage conditions: 2~8°C.

The tria I have is not soluable in water and difficult to dissolve in cool ethanol etc. Also melting point is 80-87.5c. To me you need to melt the tria to dissolve it or at least the one I have. Any on take chemistry?

I have read through many patents with formulations with tria dissolved in both cool acetone and boiling acetone. They both appear to have great results but the results were very impressive when tria was dissolved in boiling acetone and then mixed with water that has metal ions in it with at least a valence of +2. On top of that they discovered by using surfactants such as polysorbate 20 will inhibit the uptake of tria and not as effective by doing something to the metal ions.

There appear to be many formulations in the patents that have great results but I am going to try and mix up the formulation that I found to be most impressive. I have ordered some CaCl and MgCl as these were the metal ions used in the formulation. I will also need to pick up some more acetone to mix all this up...

Bottom line from everything I have read and understand the majority of us are not getting the full benefits from tria. Not saying anyone is using tria wrong just that they could possibly get better results from what the patents are stating.

Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.

BayBHuey

 

[TrainWreck01]

Best way to dissolve TRI

Best way to dissolve TRI

Im new here and was browsing this thread and noticed people talking about dissolving TRI. I found a video from a company that sells triacontanol. In all the years Ive been using TRI, this is by far, the easiest and quickest method Ive used to dissolve TRI. So Im sharing it. [YOUTUBEIF]http://youtu.be/9eBl8IEXD74[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[TrainWreck01]

Best way to dissolve TRI #2

Best way to dissolve TRI #2

There doesnt seem to be a way to post my orginal message, but there seems to be an error embedding the video so I'll just post the direct link.
http://youtu.be/9eBl8IEXD74

 

[catalyte]

been reading enough about TRIA and i'm happy there's a thread like this for us growers.

i have heard anecdotal evidence about TRIA demonstrating a stretch like effect on certain strains in certain applications.. otherwise TRIA is great for an organic stimulant!

 

[shaggyballs]

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[spunion]

Are people using triacontanol at all?

I had got a bottle of snow storm ultra when I was new. Barely used it and decided I wouldn't again. I seem to be of the mind that whenever you use PGRs, the plant loses its identity to some extent. This leads to a wide variety of flavors in the finished product, for cannabis at least. Also, isn't the use of PGRs banned for consumable plants in some places?

 

[luxcultivars]

So? What ever happened with you folks trying Triaboost? Has anybody done a controlled grow yet, using a standard side-by-side comparison?

I find this all really interesting, I read it all. As with many/most of the threads here I keep wanting to see the results. Any conclusions reached?

 

[shaggyballs]

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[SativaBreather]

So? What ever happened with you folks trying Triaboost? Has anybody done a controlled grow yet, using a standard side-by-side comparison?

I find this all really interesting, I read it all. As with many/most of the threads here I keep wanting to see the results. Any conclusions reached?

my conclusion: its the shit and i use it alla time

 

[shaggyballs]

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[Only Ornamental]

I was (don't ask why ) reading MBFerts description on how to prepare a Tria solution using Tween-20... should anyone use that, then most certainly they're doing it wrong.

Besides that, I found one report (the famous and repeatedly cited one) wherein they claim the exponentially better results and higher stability of microcrystalline (whyever this should be better than micelles) and rather basic (why use high and possibly damaging pH if there are other means?) suspensions made with ultrasound and combined with calcium ions (the troubling part isn't the far-fetched association with calcium effects on auxins but that they discovered said old jar...) and one patent claim (again, the famous and blablabla) wherein they claim that one shall use a detergent (short chained and sulphonated, they said... and what didn't they test? Right!) at a mol.-fraction of triacontanol and diluting below its CMC (the given reasons look at first and second glance quite dubious and are in conflict with the calcium theory).
It may well be that I missed a point. Actually, it's very easy to miss something due to missing data...
Other patent claims regarding simple dissolution in organic solvents and diluting in water afterwards seem way more convenient and work too. A proper 'side-by-side' is (to my knowledge) outstanding.

I got some logical conclusions from what I've read in said papers and patents but hadn't had the chance to test them yet...
Be that as it may, so far there is no 'right' or 'wrong' (apart from BMFerts version which runs against everything), just different claims (and you can claim anything in a patent but have no need for proof of efficacy regarding agrochemicals) and a shiny (but ominous and rather old publication. The widespread use of Tria worldwide and the different used formula (usually, people don't care how and what exactly they prepare) coupled with satisfied farmers and scientists lets assume that Tria (given a high enough purity) works no matter what. Could we do things better? Maybe...

 

[Big Jay]

Could you please send me a link to this video, when I clicked on it says error. Thank You

 

[Dkgrower]

I dont use triacontanol but have some ideas

why dont you use an alcohol and add some aminoacids, to avoid the plant gets alcohol poison.

as long as you dont spray it on very young plants.

Also pls do rember that pH of around 7 is the best for foliar feeding, lower or higher pH can be dangeroush

Also pls rember that amino acids are used in many foliar products to help the plant absorb the target element or compound

 

[Only Ornamental]

I dont use triacontanol but have some ideas

why dont you use an alcohol and add some aminoacids, to avoid the plant gets alcohol poison.

as long as you dont spray it on very young plants.

Also pls do rember that pH of around 7 is the best for foliar feeding, lower or higher pH can be dangeroush

Also pls rember that amino acids are used in many foliar products to help the plant absorb the target element or compound

Alcohols? What for regarding tria?
You can spray up to 30-40% methanol or around 20% ethanol on plants without any issues! On the contraty, they love it (20-30% methanol) during hot days and high irradiation!!
If you add more, even adding amino acids won't help as plants don't get alcohol poisoning like people do, the toxicity is mostly linked to denaturation . Theoretically, adding glycine to methanol (but not other alcohols) would be a smart move to get additional benefits or rather add methanol when using glycine.
You're right regarding seedlings, they tolerate way less but that's true for many other things (such as amino acids) as well.
Simply adding some amino acids to a mix like a blind playing darts does seldom much good. If done properly, some do form chelates with polyvalent cations rendering them neutral and hence more stable. If the foliar resorption is thereby increased, I do not know as several effects play for and against this. Often, amino acids like so many other things are just pixie dust (claim ingredients aka marketing).

 

[HenDokuYaku]

I've read this thread and I'm still a bit confused about dissolving Triacontanol. Apparently using Poly20 is a bad idea according to many. Does anyone have any definite recommendations on how to dissolve without Poly20? Or is Poly 20 still an option? Or is heated Acetone with tap water (contains metals) an option? I've been searching and searching and there doesn't seem to be anything definitive.

Excellent Thread. I'm educating myself.

Thanks!

 

[Only Ornamental]

Tween-20 is still an option, it's just that people use it much like they use duct tape and WD-40. But there's a whole science behind surfactants; why use duct tape to hold two pieces together when you could/should weld them? I haven't had the time (in truth, rather a lack of motivation) to try some stuff to find an optimal composition (= low surfactant %, high stability, small particle size etc.).
For no-storage products and if Tween-20 isn't terribly over-concentrated, it'll hold, not perfect, but good enough.
Acetone will result in a 'microcrystalline' suspension of small nearly solid triacontanol 'droplets'. Done the right way, such a preparation is similar to the ultrasound preparation which is said, allegedly, to be most efficient (if calcium ions are present). But I still have my doubts there (the stuff doesn't add up)... Besides, adding calcium salts should only be done right before the application because they will, with most preparations, dramatically reduce physico-chemical and microbial shelf life and hence also reduce bioactivity.

Is there another way for a quick&dirty household preparation? Apart from the indicated heat/ultrasound version, there's nothing which has been successfully tested and could be done easily by eveyone. Exchanging Tween-20 with other surfactants would in most cases be like taking a different brand of duct tape...

 

[HenDokuYaku]

I dissolved Triacontanol 1g into 8ml of Polysorbate20 in the microwave then I added 15mls of water and dissolved it in the microwave again. It worked great.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Tween-20 is still an option, it's just that people use it much like they use duct tape and WD-40...

I dissolved Triacontanol 1g into 8ml of Polysorbate20 in the microwave then I added 15mls of water and dissolved it in the microwave again. It worked great.

Good example, that's what I meant!
If the axes of your car aren't turning cause they are bent and the exhaust starts falling off because it's so rusty, then you use some WD-40 and duct tape and the car will roll again. This ain't a good fix and certainly no clean repair job but da fugg who cares as long as it's cheap and does the trick, right?
In theory (the theory here is right in about 99% of the cases), it should be possible to add the right detergents at 5-10% (which is already a lot) of the weight of tria to get it into a stable emulsion ('solution') and not having to take an excess of about 15 times.

 

[marvingrand]

no disrespect but you cant weld wood

 

[shaggyballs]

I recently found a ready to use form of Triacontanol on ebay.
Just add water and you have a ready made Triacontanol emulsion.
I thought it was pretty cool and very simple.
Screw all that heating and such.
Me like-a simple!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332595328773