Is everyone really using TRIACONTANOL incorrectly?

[omera1]

Congratulations Omera

I know it has been a long road for you!!!
But you finally did it!!!!.....and without a solvent!!!!!WHAT?
You are the man.

That is the way I like mine to look now.
If I use too much poly sorbate 20 it will get pearly....I like it cloudy.

thanks
i have to do some more experiments but all seems good. it is totally in solution. no visible particles etc. and again, it is 100% RO water and triacontanol. the answer of all the questions. maybe i will write a "how to" in a few days. the key was to use ultrasonic

 

[Elite Nugz]

Sounds like there's some scientist up in here. Lol. Good info, good read!!

I have a question though... and it may sound ignorant, since I dont know much about Traicontonal.

Why try and break down the raw material and make it absorbable, when there's already products on the market with Tria in it? Like the yellow bottle Bloom Ooze, Grow More Avalanche, Canna Boost claims to have it in there... Heavy 16 Fire claims to contain some as well and Im sure there are a ton of others.

Are these products no good? Are we trying to use raw material to save money? Or is it just to have a complete understanding of what we're feeding our plant? Or maybe some other reason?

Sorry if its a dumb question, but Im curious.

 

[omera1]

for me the reason is to have full controll about what and how much i give my plants. and of course you safe a lot of money. like shaggy says, every solvent or surfactant will render the effect of triacontanol in a bad way or will complex ca and other metal ions. and ca and triacontanol in uncomplexed pure form is what you need to get the most of tria.

 

[FatherEarth]

I use Calcium 25, a superb foliar with naturally occuring TRIA from bees/plant wax.

Here is the patented formula... it does include the use of an organic solvent... Yet Ca25 is listed OMRI organic.

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/4333758.html

 

[shaggyballs]

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[jadashi]

So... i am trialing a water soluble product of tria from an australian company at 1ppm in res and 25 ppm as a 14 day folair with kwlp... am i was wasting my time? Results seem fairly good but i have no idea if its the kelp/fulvic/humic or the tria...

Label says no surfactant required... surely as an agri product ud think it would penetrate crop vegitation y/n?

It probably has a surfactant already in it.
So yes it should , but to me the jury is still out.

25 ppm seems a little high still you show no negative results?
I am interested in your results using it at 25 PPM.
I would cut that in half and see if you notice a difference.

It is my belief that a 25 PPM spray week 4 in bud will stack the calyx to the maxx.....too much.....cause abrupt ripening....ultimately decreasing yield!!!!
But that is a guess based on a mistake I made awhile back...never did a controlled test.

You really should have a separate plant for a control!!!!
And add only 1 supplement at a time to see real results.
But they do make a good mix.

From what i can conclude so far (info also based on Mbferts) the 25ppm shot is an optimal level (14 day intervals) foliar with 1 ppm running via res from my research across the net and certain studies i have compared...

In a way i sort of have a control running as my buddy runs the same Critical on just Canna vega/flores and there is a vast difference in our density and maturity stage... Enviros are very different but most essentials are the dane

Although i can not clearly distinguish the tria effect difference because i run kelp in each application i am very impressed with whats happened... ill add a few results in a thread later

I will certainly be repeating the Tria/kelp mix regimin.

 

[omera1]

25ppm is way to high! the only reason that you can use such high amounts is that your particle size is very high, around 5-20 micron. prefered size is <0.3 micron, so your plant cant absorb all of your particles...only the small ones.

 

[jadashi]

25ppm is way to high! the only reason that you can use such high amounts is that your particle size is very high, around 5-20 micron. prefered size is <0.3 micron, so your plant cant absorb all of your particles...only the small ones.

See this is what confuses me about my original input and response to this thread... i am using a reputable ag product thats designed for foliar shots of approx 25ppm routinely as well as on a variiety of crops..

So you are saying to me that only a small percentage of this commercial product has an effect on its target..?


Dont worry ive probably done enough on tria to understand higher dosage is really just a waste and not detrimental...

 

[omera1]

So you are saying to me that only a small percentage of this commercial product has an effect on its target..?

i can be wrong, but i think so.

.It' is believed that previous formulations have often
been prepared'by dissolving the triacontanol in an or
ganic sol-vent such as chloroform, acetone or Tween 20.
The solutions are thenmixed with water, which can
also contain an emulsifying agent, to precipitate triacon
tanol particles. Such formulations, while producing a
certain amount of colloidal triacontanol particles, typi
cally result in‘ a large mean particlesize (e.g., a mean
particle radius of at least several microns) and a corre
spondingly ‘small particle 1 number ‘concentration. A
signi?cant, but ill-de?ned, fraction of the triacontanol
precipitates as. large particles which undergo rapid ?oc
culation. These formulations therefore provide rela
tively poor uniformity of application in the ?eld.
Other formulations have been prepared by dissolving
the triacontanol in a water-insoluble solvent (e.g., nap
tha) and then emulsifying with water in the presence of
an emulsifying agent. In these formulations, the triacon
tanol remains dissolved in the solvent where it has low
chemical and biological activity. Since the particle
number concentration of the dispersed triacontanol
solution will be small, ?eld applications will‘also be
relatively vnonuniform._In addition, the mixing of the
triacontanol solutions with water in both of the above
described methods typically occurs just prior to' ?eld
applications so that the triacontanol particle size and
particle number concentration, and hence uniformity of
application, are not known or controlled. .

 

[jadashi]

I am so impressed by the tria/kelp shots i am going to now try a tria/Cal foliar. anyone have any direct info on a ppm ratio of Cal to try?

 

[omera1]

10mM, 1.4g/l CaCl

 

[jadashi]

Thanks omera1... i am having some serious fun with Tria and down for and info/discussion etc...

For some reason Tria has grabbed me and restored a little passion in this art i was honestly plateaued with... I think it is a little bit of facination that its reaction not totally understood and also that it tends to be hush hush as far as commercial nute companies (canna) go...

 

[omera1]

For some reason Tria has grabbed me and restored a little passion in this art i was honestly plateaued with... I think it is a little bit of facination that its reaction not totally understood and also that it tends to be hush hush as far as commercial nute companies (canna) go...

sry too much bafflegab(?) for a non english person^^
what do you mean?

 

[jadashi]

Ouch! Lol... ummm... just know i appreciate your Triacontanol information...

 

[shaggyballs]

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[omera1]

thank you guys

 

[The Groff]

How about a quick guide for TRIA-noobs? Have polysorbate in the mail, waiting for my card to clear to order some 1-Tria

 

[The Groff]

I'm new here... am I blind or is there no edit option for posting? Anyways... meant to say,

How about a quick guide on how to mix TRIA for correct foliar dosage?

 

[shaggyballs]

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[Only Ornamental]

Sorry Omera1 to intercept but your posts made me thinking

500ml Water & 100mg Triacontanol, no solvents. nothing...just water. And its stable. no flocculation etc
....
it is totally in solution. no visible particles etc. and again, it is 100% RO water and triacontanol. the answer of all the questions. maybe i will write a "how to" in a few days. the key was to use ultrasonic
...
the only reason that you can use such high amounts is that your particle size is very high, around 5-20 micron. prefered size is <0.3 micron, so your plant cant absorb all of your particles...only the small ones.

So you have a yar with water and triacontanol and nothing else, you used ultrasound and the liquid is milky: You don't have a solution but a suspension or colloid; the former will eventually floculate after some time. Good thing is the high melting point, when it starts creaming the particles won't fuse.
Pure water is somewhat risky when using pure non-ionic detergents (triacontanol may be regarded as such) to obtain stable micelles because of the insufficient zeta potential...
Well, you state <0.3 um particle size which would speak for a colloid... how did you determine that (with a Zetasizer)?
Still, a colloid is not a solution and no matter what, you won't get triacontanol into a real solution without additives.

BTW Beeswax was mentioned by someone and completely ignored; it might provide a slow release formulation (only in soil)?