incorrect npk and supplement ratios are some of the reasons for shitty bud

[Douglas.Curtis]

I am not familiar with the term residual. How do you test for that?

Mg is a very mobile element. With proper tissue testing the plant tells you how much it needs. Cannabis needs less than most plants... not more. Slow is right, P is the issue most have

I'm not familiar with testing methods, period. What I'm most interested in seeing is "Just" cannabis. All elements absorbed have been totally and completely converted to "Cannabis."

Most people are not aware cannabis is a dynamic/hyper accumulator. Mobile or immobile, if there is an excess of an element cannabis is going to lock it in with new growth. Unconverted and completely immobile. You can flush for a month of sundays and your flowers will still crackle with excess mag. (as an example)

What tests show levels of unconverted NPK, micros and other elements not necessary for plant growth? Tests showing *any* levels of these I consider residuals in the plant. Residuals mean heat and harsh.
(btw, I use a P based pH up. Most hydro growers these days do not and I believe it makes a rather large difference) <---- Edit: No I don't. Thought that was wrong and had to look it up. My pH up is Potassium based. lol

Save​

 

[jidoka]

I am stunned. The will to argue has left me.



So my idea of a flush is remove my nitrate source for 4-5 days. Maybe this pic illustrates metabolism with ratios similar to what Slow is talking

Pic is through those blue sunglasses things 3 days into no nitrate feed

 

[Mudraya]

But on the chance that you do read Tiedjens you will see the arguments and results of feeding having the balance say 1-2-1, which is reported in P2O5 and K2O. This means more phosphate than potash. However, if you do the math, you would quickly realize that this is actually a 1-1-1 in terms of actual P and K (phosphorus and potassium).

Is this ratio optimal for soil only? I'm very interested in what you have to say but generally it seems you are speaking of needs in soil only. I grow soilless. How does this apply? I have seen these principles in action: purple/magenta stems and petioles in vegetative growth and subsequent growth turning green after 2 wks flowering, when the nutrient is changed to higher P.

You said 1-2-1 is optimal yet it is really 1-1-1. Care to clarify for the layperson?

 

[Cannabologist]

oh... oh jeeze..

Read Dr. Victor Tiedjens, who also advocated nutrient balancing and look at his production data, both yield and quality went through the roof. O.. K... AND..? So??
The stuff you buy in bottles, guess what, does exactly this! !!!!

You know this guy is old news and like... I can't even begin anymore... Like... who the F doesn't use "balanced plant nutrition" and all those concepts in growing? Der no one, because farming is a process...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_A._Tiedjens
"He was credited as "one of the pioneers in growing plants in chemical solutions." [1]"

lol... Better not name drop that guy around all the organic anti science morons you find all over this site, feeding chemicals to their plants that they claim are chemical free, no pesticides lol rofl,, yet all these farms test pos for pesticides Hummm... Not blaming you.. I'm just .... I'm pointing out irony? It's irony right????? llol


The same that has been happening here, yields and quality going through the roof.
Nutrient uptake is one thing, balance is another.

And that's what's happening in bottles we're feeding, that the companies have formulated, with their schedules... You feed, you follow the process, you get your environment down, you get a heavy yeilding clone and dial it in, you will up yeild and quality.


In NO OTHER agricultural industry does CalMag exist

Wrong. Donald trump wrong fake news. I mean come on are you serious??? Is this for real? Did we just go from rational to lala wackado land?? Yep we did

https://www.google.com/search?clien...ab..4.3.905...0j0i67k1j33i160k1.0.3iFZSuaK3Ns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_nitrate
Use in agricultureAs of 1978, only 170,000 tons/year were produced for applications in fertilizers.[2] The fertilizer grade (15.5-0-0 + 19% Ca) is popular in the greenhouse and hydroponics trades; it contains ammonium nitrate and water, as the "double salt" 5Ca(NO3)2.NH4NO3·10H2O. This is called calcium ammonium nitrate. Formulations lacking ammonia are also known: Ca(NO3)2·4H2O (11.9-0-0 + 16.9 Ca) and the water-free 17-0-0 + 23.6 Ca. A liquid formulation (9-0-0 + 11 Ca) is also offered. An anhydrous, air-stable derivative is the urea complex Ca(NO3)2·4[OC(NH2)2], which has been sold as Cal-Urea.
Calcium nitrate is also used to control certain plant diseases. For example, dilute calcium nitrate (and calcium chloride) sprays are used to control bitter pit and cork spot in apple trees.[3]


https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/calcium-nitrate-fertilizer.htm


https://www.researchgate.net/post/what_is_the_importance_of_calcium_nitrate_in_plant_growth


>>>> This is a whole big thread on the use of cal mag in the industries you claim it is not used.... WTF...

What is the importance of calcium nitrate in plant growth ?


i would like to know the importance of calcium nitrate to plant . i know that this fertilizer is made up of two nutrients : nitrate and soluble calcium . a biochimical response should be appreciated to know how green plants uses these two nutrients . thanks.

• Plant-Soil Nutrient Interactions
• Fertilizers
• Plant Growth

Popular Answers (1)

2 years ago
Timothy Jenkins
BIOMIN

Yes to Samantha Jayasundara's answer (non acidifying as compared to ammonium-nitrogen fertilisers such as ammonium phosphates and particularly ammonium sulphate. Other options where soil acidification is undesirable are calcium ammonium nitrate or applying calcium as gypsum or lime (with nitrogen applied additonally. Calcium nitrate also has an advantage for foliar fertilizer use being a soluble form of calcium. This is very useful in some tree crops including apples for which it can otherwise be hard to increase calcium levels.
With respect to the initial broad question, of the role of calcium and nitrate, a non-exhaustive list of roles of these major plant nutrients are:
Calcium Roles: Cell wall and general structure (particularly high levels in the middle lamella). Cell membrane function in nutrient transport. Nutrient uptake. Protection from aluminium and manganese toxicity. Plant defence responses. Improved photosynthesis. Root growth, elongation, mycorrhizal fungal promotion, root mucilage production (increasing root contact with soil). Regulating enzyme systems. Water regulation and nutrient balance in plant tissue. Legume nodule structure and nitrogen fixation.
Calcium helps activate cellular repair and plant defence mechanisms including selective cell death in advance of a potentially invasive disease that requires living cells and defence chemicals (e.g. phenolics and phytoalexins). High calcium levels also assist plant cells to with the formation of callose, plant cells providing protective barriers to injured plant parts. Calcium improves the function of antioxidants, protecting plant cells from biochemical stresses of cell damage.
Calcium deficiency results in structure disintegration such as leaf tip burn, dying ends of shoots, detaching leaf stalks, blossom-end rot (in tomatoes and members of the cucumber family), bitter pit (in apples), increasing risk of pests and disease entry. The symptoms reflect the importance of calcium in cell structure but also the protective role of calcium against one of the plant’s own enzymes that breaks down the pectin layer between cells.
Nitrate: Needs to be reduced to ammonium (occurs within the roots and shoots of plants and in mycorrhizal fungi). The ammonium is then the source of nitrogen for amino acid formation and thus all proteins (including enzymes) required by the plant. Many other plant compounds require nitrogen also such as DNA, RNA, ATP, hormones.


All Answers (8)

2 years ago
Susantha Jayasundara
University of Guelph

Hi Maher,
Calcium nitrate is the preferred inorganic N fertilizer source where soil acidification is undesirable and when both calcium and nitrogen are required to be supplied at the same time.
Susantha.

2 years ago
Timothy Jenkins
BIOMIN

Yes to Samantha Jayasundara's answer (non acidifying as compared to ammonium-nitrogen fertilisers such as ammonium phosphates and particularly ammonium sulphate. Other options where soil acidification is undesirable are calcium ammonium nitrate or applying calcium as gypsum or lime (with nitrogen applied additonally. Calcium nitrate also has an advantage for foliar fertilizer use being a soluble form of calcium. This is very useful in some tree crops including apples for which it can otherwise be hard to increase calcium levels.
With respect to the initial broad question, of the role of calcium and nitrate, a non-exhaustive list of roles of these major plant nutrients are:
Calcium Roles: Cell wall and general structure (particularly high levels in the middle lamella). Cell membrane function in nutrient transport. Nutrient uptake. Protection from aluminium and manganese toxicity. Plant defence responses. Improved photosynthesis. Root growth, elongation, mycorrhizal fungal promotion, root mucilage production (increasing root contact with soil). Regulating enzyme systems. Water regulation and nutrient balance in plant tissue. Legume nodule structure and nitrogen fixation.
Calcium helps activate cellular repair and plant defence mechanisms including selective cell death in advance of a potentially invasive disease that requires living cells and defence chemicals (e.g. phenolics and phytoalexins). High calcium levels also assist plant cells to with the formation of callose, plant cells providing protective barriers to injured plant parts. Calcium improves the function of antioxidants, protecting plant cells from biochemical stresses of cell damage.
Calcium deficiency results in structure disintegration such as leaf tip burn, dying ends of shoots, detaching leaf stalks, blossom-end rot (in tomatoes and members of the cucumber family), bitter pit (in apples), increasing risk of pests and disease entry. The symptoms reflect the importance of calcium in cell structure but also the protective role of calcium against one of the plant’s own enzymes that breaks down the pectin layer between cells.
Nitrate: Needs to be reduced to ammonium (occurs within the roots and shoots of plants and in mycorrhizal fungi). The ammonium is then the source of nitrogen for amino acid formation and thus all proteins (including enzymes) required by the plant. Many other plant compounds require nitrogen also such as DNA, RNA, ATP, hormones.

2 years ago
Arpana Mishra
Pt.JLN P.G College,Banda

Thanks, Mr. Jim for detailed and best answer.

2 years ago
João Coutinho
Universidade de Trás-os-Montes e Alto Douro

Calcium nitrate is a very soluble fertilizer and is a common source of both nutrients in foliar application, specially when Ca is needed, as it occurs with some crops as tomato and apples.
Its application to soil probably needs to be restricted to situations when you want a very fast effect of N and with no rainfall. As all the N is in a NO3 form, other situations may result in high risks of N leaching, with economical and environmental consequences.
For Ca application to soils, we may use amendments such as Ca carbonate.

2 years ago
Jose Delatorre-Herrera
Arturo Prat University

Hi Maher: Both calcium and nitrates are essential elements for plants. In the soil Calcium is an active partipante in the cation exchange and nitrate anion can be a pemanecer in soil solution being absorbed or leached to lower layers. A nutritional status in saline soils or boron are recommended high concentrations of calcium nitrate as NO3 is antagonistic with borates and chlorides, while calcium is antagonistic with sodium. The pH of the calcium nitrate solution of 6.5 so his reaction is acid.
2 years ago

Anoop Kumar Srivastava
National Research Centre for Citrus

Interesting answers . We have tested the effect of calcium nitrate in citrus as 1.0% . Its quite impactful , since citrus requires much higher quantity of calcium than any other nutrients , if nutrient removal pattern by fruits is followed closely. Soils having better calcium saturation level on the exchange complex , produced much better peel color ( Higher ratio orange red to green color ) , tighter fruits and better shine on the peel , besides the better size. Physiological maturity of the fruits , evident from higher TSS/Acid ratio. Calcium nitrate has also shown equally good response through fertigation than foliar spray . However , better efficacy of calcium nitrate is obtained only when , there is no deficiency of boron .

2 years ago
Anoop Kumar Srivastava
National Research Centre for Citrus

Thanks Maher. Another very intriguing issue regarding calcium nutrition of plant , i missed in my earlier communication , is the tripartite relation between calcium , magnesium and potassium . Potassium on one hand , is balanced by concentration of calcium and magnesium on the other hand . This relation operates at both the levels, soil and in plants system. Soils rich in exchangeable-K, especially in those soils having illitic mineralogy , excess of k has to be balanced by addition application of Ca plus Mg , if the maximum response of these nutrients has to be harnessed."

I'm gonna say this in the nicest way possible... You're just fucking wrong. Balls to the wall wrong dude. And I can't believe you'd even defend your wrongness.

I've been in doing horticulture and ecology since college, and no where never, has anyone ever said what you said. I can't even.. lol.
Sure things change... But.. Yeahhhh... lol... Idk where you got on with that whole cal mag bent.

It sounds like you got told that, from some other guy, who is also wrong.. Or somehow somewhere you got the idea in your head? But um,, yeah. That's just wrong. Calcium nitrate is widely used in agriculture, it is not a "stoner product". That's not only wrong, its frankly stupid and ridiculous to say.


That is a stoner industry input and you all seem to suck it up by the truckload and all that Mg really does screw up your quality.
YEAH..> Really?????/ ROFL OKAY SURE
https://www.google.com/search?clien....64.psy-ab..9.1.1418...0j0i67k1.0.h_lSlPGDM_o

This is something that is readily googleable for crying out loud..

Cause let me tell everyone listening the best way to screw up your quality is NOT providing adequate Ca, Mg, N, P, K, etc, and calcium nitrate is a good source of it N and Ca... And you really haven't been able to prove otherwise other than just say some stuff that is frankly, wrong. Demonstrably wrong. Highlariously wrong lol.


Most farmers/agronomists know the problems you get with all that Mg. Maybe go watch the video in my thread by a couple of PhD's (oops, scientific types, start the bonfire!)
Links??? But then again, I could keep linking all day about cal mag too... Think I just did lol.. And how beneficial it is, especially for fruiting crops with high Ca requirements.. Its used a lot. No one seems to mention anything about problems with Mg, and the info I provided should cover everything else you mis conceptualized about calcium nitrate, it's use and applications, how and when and why a farmer would apply or not.


Sorry you are so closed minded to the "science".
You're talking PSEUDOSCIENCE.... PSEUDO SCIENCE is not science

MISREPRESENTING science, is not science. Taking concepts from one guy, and mis applying them, or misunderstanding them and what they mean, is not science.

SCIENCE, is a PROCESS. That's it! A process

Process. I'll say it again and keep saying it. Process. It's a process.


But on the chance that you do read Tiedjens you will see the arguments and results of feeding having the balance say 1-2-1, which is reported in P2O5 and K2O. This means more phosphate than potash. However, if you do the math, you would quickly realize that this is actually a 1-1-1 in terms of actual P and K (phosphorus and potassium).
Right, there is a huge difference between the actual amount of an element and how it is actually found as a molecule in a fertilizer which can make NPK ratios not only confusing, but nearly worthless and really they are worthless anyways because who knows what a plant needs until you apply it and find out!

And then again, it doesn't matter, because cannabis will take up luxury elements, and drug cannabis needs it otherwise you're going to impact yields and quality. You wanna grow hemp??? Don't fertilize your plants. Plenty of studies show you can grow some great cannabis stems and stalks by not fertilizing your plants - Cause more often than not in any study you'll read for cannabis they aren't trying to grow bud.

But no one in their right mind who grows great weed cares at all about that, because it's boring nonsense that doesn't mean crap.

You don't know what the plant needs, and it always changes from strain to strain, slightly. You grow good clones, you use a well known line, and you don't skimp out ... ie, follow the process.., check ph, go up to these ppms and not over, etc., etc., You WILL have success... None of this "quality from mg and ca" crap your talking about. Still no clue what kind of line of thinking you are on, or where you get such stuff from, and where the links are to what you say, if any of what you claim actually applies to cannabis in any way.

And moreover, I don't really care that ship sailed last post, you had that chance... But then you doubled down on the whole cal mag claim and once you get a guy like you saying stupid crazy lies on the internet that are easily disproved with a 2 second google search, well, yeah,... Then it is only my fault I waste more time with you lol.

Again, those that tried these ratios all saw amazing results in cannabis, but hey, that is science! There is definitely cause and effect. But if you don't understand what drives the cause, you are just guessing!

Those that use veg bloom see amazing results! Those using GH or H+G see better! You are not doing science, you are making up stuff, CALLING it science. Jesus f'n christ!

Hey I can call anything I want in the world anything, that doesn't magically make it so! Make a mental note of that as you move forward in your endeavors in life.

Ratio of what???? NPK?? 1-1-1??? That's the most arbitrary bs ever. YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED MY FACTS about the growth habit of cannabis, efficient vs heavy feeders, nute schedules...

But now the magic ratio is 1-1-1??? 1-2-1?? Of what??? What chemicals then??? How many grams of XYZ chemicals do we add to a gallon Juan? What is the process that you say is best. How do we account for the plants' needs at different stages, and different plants having different requirements, since some plants are obv cal mag hogs, and others aren't, and so on and so forth...

Cause saying "the best is this and that doi!" doesn't mean jack squat and well proof???? Any proof??? Of course not. "the best ratio is this"... Says who??? Based on what??? Where is the, ahem, science showing this is what is best for drug cannabis, and this is how the process goes now, where is the data that shows the process works vs controls. There is no process, there is no science. It's pontificating. Its hypothesis. Its what dad would call "nonsense kid".

Any moron all day can say "well you want balanced nutrition for your plant" F'N DUH... That doesn't mean anything. That is not what to use, how much, and when. Everyone says that, derp. It's good sounding nonsense. Of course you want to "balance plant nutrition"... IE> FEED CHEMICALS in the right proportions. You know who's done all this already for all the plants under the sun?? Nutrient companies. OH THE HORROR right?


I know lots of commercial farmers that think the way you do, you aren't alone. At the end of the day, their results are mediocre and have more excuses than there is sand in the desert.
O... K... I somehow doubt what you say. I'm glad you know other farmers who think like me, tells me we are all likely doing something correct. Any farmer that follows the process will have success and it ain't mediocre no matter how much you want to sit in a chair and pontificate about things you don't know but want to say. But of course yours is the best with the best yields and its even better because you mixed the chemicals yourself!!! Lol you "balanced" the plant's nutrition! Would it be better if you extracted and mined the elements from the earth you used! I'm sure you'd tell me yes it is THE BEST pot! Better than all these guys mixing their own chemicals instead of just buying a bottle from a company who already did all the work and saves you time, which is money, while you are thinking you are saving money rofl, spending all that time.. oh jeeze!

You know those guys who make their soil with their hands, they have the best pot to. Or so they claim. I used to make all my soil by my hands too. Yep it magically does make it better magically that's how magic works, like magic, magically!

Its already been established though in another thread that I'm the best ever, so, yeah. Ya'll just chasing


Given that everyone that has attempted to understand soil science (not what is preached by the fertilizer industry) and apply soil science is loving the result.
Huh? Soil science and what can be considered good agricultural practice, is a constantly changing thing as information changes and we find out new things. The fertilizer industry IS the farm industry; their success is the based on the success of the farmer, which means YAY we all live and don't die cause we get to eat food and there isn't a famine!!!! That is the science, the process. The process may change, sure. Conventional farms shouldn't till anymore, and if they are, well, again they probably shouldn't and should change their practices and they will probably save money and stop problems somewhere down the line. And that's exactly what's happening. The soil science on that is, well, you don't till because you will cause erosion, loss of humus, which will cause nutrient leaching, and of course the logic thus here should ring out. How do we know? Because this is what we have discovered in the process of both till and no-till agriculture and the results. Has nothing to do with nutrients, fertilizer, fertilizer companies, monsanto, corporations, etc..., or anything at all.. Its simply something farmers always did, and others didn't, a variation in the process, and no one really knew why one way or another... Well really farmers would till because it was easy and that's what they thought was the good thing to do as a part of their farming process. But the process of doing one or the other definitely has different, measurable results. The science, is figuring out that process, this does this, this does that, and being able to show it, actually really show it... That is a real tricky trick. Actually really showing it. A lot of so called "science" pretends on a surface to show something, to have results, but the truth is it's a trick, an artifact, or just something else.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!
Bullshit! You beat the fuck out of that horse, knock it down, tie it up in some twisted bondage infinity knot, put a funnel in it's mouth, down the throat, and force it in till its full. It's a horse you can get that horse to drink some water.

Maybe you can show us some water to drink. You want to say all these things, but they are meaningless, ie, your case does not hold water, for horses to drink. The river is dry. Does that make sense? It should.

 

[Avenger]

ok ok, I did it again. I know....insanity.

So Cannabologist, you equate calcium nitrate with 'calmag'? yet calcium nitrate doesn't contain magnesium. what the fuck?

 

[slownickel]

Is this ratio optimal for soil only? I'm very interested in what you have to say but generally it seems you are speaking of needs in soil only. I grow soilless. How does this apply? I have seen these principles in action: purple/magenta stems and petioles in vegetative growth and subsequent growth turning green after 2 wks flowering, when the nutrient is changed to higher P.

You said 1-2-1 is optimal yet it is really 1-1-1. Care to clarify for the layperson?

What is given to you on a label is N-P-K, however, the P and K are reported as phosphate and potash on the label, which are whole molecules and don't represent the real phosphorus and potassium until you do the math. Reducing P2O5 to P, and K2O to K, will give you different numbers in terms of P and K. Read what I wrote again and see if you understand it.

 

[Mudraya]

Got it. Thanks

To paraphrase, the other part was: soil absorbs nutrients differently as does coco, hydro etc...do you think this ratio is appropriate to other mediums than soil? Or is it a matter of a minor tweak?

 

[bsgospel]

From shroomdr in another thread:

A (20-20-20) fertilizer is not equal parts N:K.
P and K are calculated as P2O5 and K2O.
The label factors in the atomic weight of oxygen

P is 43.6% of what is labeled.

P=31 O=16.

P2O5 = (2 x 31) + (5 x 16) = 142.
P = (2 x 31)=62.
62/142 = 43.6% P in P2O5.


K is 83% of what is labeled.

K=39 O=16.

K2O = (2 x 39) + (16) = 94.
K = (2 x 39)=78.
78/94 = 83% K in K2O.


So 20-20-20 is really 20-8.6-16.6

 

[bsgospel]

ok ok, I did it again. I know....insanity.

So Cannabologist, you equate calcium nitrate with 'calmag'? yet calcium nitrate doesn't contain magnesium. what the fuck?

HA! I totally started and quickly jumped right over. Should I even ask for highlights or does the cal-mag question sum it up?

 

[jidoka]

Here is another coco grow I am converting to custom hydro, including calcium nitrate but zero calmag. Gotta get P up a little more

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Read Dr. Victor Tiedjens, who also advocated nutrient balancing and look at his production data, both yield and quality went through the roof.

The same that has been happening here, yields and quality going through the roof.

Nutrient uptake is one thing, balance is another.

In NO OTHER agricultural industry does CalMag exist That is a stoner industry input and you all seem to suck it up by the truckload and all that Mg really does screw up your quality. Most farmers/agronomists know the problems you get with all that Mg. Maybe go watch the video in my thread by a couple of PhD's (oops, scientific types, start the bonfire!)

Sorry you are so closed minded to the "science".

But on the chance that you do read Tiedjens you will see the arguments and results of feeding having the balance say 1-2-1, which is reported in P2O5 and K2O. This means more phosphate than potash. However, if you do the math, you would quickly realize that this is actually a 1-1-1 in terms of actual P and K (phosphorus and potassium).

Again, those that tried these ratios all saw amazing results in cannabis, but hey, that is science! There is definitely cause and effect. But if you don't understand what drives the cause, you are just guessing!

I know lots of commercial farmers that think the way you do, you aren't alone. At the end of the day, their results are mediocre and have more excuses than there is sand in the desert.

Given that everyone that has attempted to understand soil science (not what is preached by the fertilizer industry) and apply soil science is loving the result.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!

I always point out that in the Tomato industry, where people with PhDs grow hectares with only a few cents of profit... are probably pretty good people to pay attention to. There you do not see people adding A&B, Cal Mag, PK boosters once a day, you see complex machines constantly monitoring and adjusting the nutrient feeds. Very expensive machines, especially considering the low value low profit crop. So, obviously worth doing, and way further technically than Nutrient Balancing.

 

[painter66]

jidoka.
seriously,what an awesome facility and awesome grow. truly inspiring.
would you please tell what NPK Ca and Mg ppms you like to hit during your flowering weeks.
if not no worries. But I think it would be a real eye opener.
stay safe man.

 

[jidoka]

You don’t take Slow’s word for it?

I do some consulting. The work is for people that are paying me and for the tissue testing that drives it. I am not gonna give details

1st thing you have to do is evaluate your environment. How much light, temp, co2, pruning, genetics, etc. the more dialed those things, the higher your potential. The higher that is the more nutes you can use.

The other thing you can do is work with custom hydro. I hope he won’t give my exact formula but he knows what is up.



This is my highest potential grow. From stick the clone in a pot to 2 ft tall with 10 tops in 4 weeks.

 

[Cannabologist]

ok ok, I did it again. I know....insanity.

So Cannabologist, you equate calcium nitrate with 'calmag'? yet calcium nitrate doesn't contain magnesium. what the fuck?

No, its a mixture of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate... Are you having a problem here?? Sounds like you are misreading
The claim was that "cal mag" is not used... It is, widely. Still no literature on why or when it is not used though. Still an amorphous.
Theres reasons why this stuff comes mixed up... You don't just buy "nitrogen" or "phosphorous" as a fertilizer, and add that silly cakes, you buy complex molecules that are done up in formulations for plants... Yes.. WTF indeed!

https://www.greenhousegrower.com/un...ant-nutrition-fertilizers-and-macronutrients/

http://npk-industries.com/resources_Are_all_Calcium_Magnesium_Supplements_Alike.html

https://www.sangral.com/Products/Sangral%E2%84%A2Straight/CalciumNitrateMagnesiumNitrate.aspx

ROFL I mean... This is ANOTHER cal-mag product for tomatoes... I could google these kinds of products all day..

"Sangral® Calmag is a fully water-soluble calcium magnesium nitrate. It combines three nutrients in one product for good plant structure, increased photosynthetic capacity and rapid leaf mass development during the vegetative stage of plant growth. Sangral® Calmag shows a fast plant reaction because of the nutrient uptake synergy between nitrates, calcium and magnesium.

Fertigation

Water-soluble NPK´s supply all necessary plant nutrients other than calcium and magnesium, which are only partially supplied. Sangral® Calmag has been formulated to complement these two elements.

Sangral® Calmag provides magnesium and calcium, combined with nitrate nitrogen that enhances the uptake of these two elements.

A high NO3-/ NH4+ balance ensures sufficient uptake of Ca++ and Mg++ and avoids root degeneration, especially at high soil temperatures. Additionally, nitrogen losses by volatilization are avoided when using nitrate nitrogen. For intensive horticulture, nitrate nitrogen is the optimum nitrogen source. Sangral® Calmag, alternated with balanced NPK´s (e.g. Sangral®), will ensure optimum nutrient availability.

Foliar Application

Calcium and magnesium deficiencies often occur simultaneously.

Sangral® Calmag is an excellent way of effectively supplying additional calcium and magnesium during critical physiological or environmental conditions. Due to its low EC, the risk of burning and scorching is low, making it a suitable choice for foliar applications and enabling higher concentrations."

No one is saying you couldn't just apply one or the other as you want to,... But there are reasons why you wouldn't... Likely because if you are having one deficiency you are likely having others along with it

Shit, these supplements don't contain K... In my experience adding potash would also help, but they don't. Because I suppose if you wanted to supplant it yourself, you could. Or lol wait lemme google I'm sure I'll find some things I know I will

 

[slownickel]

There are many many blends of what is kindly referred to as "woo woo juice" google it bolo. Basically it means taking $0.30 of fertilizer and mixing it with water and selling it to clowns that don't bother to read where it says calcium nitrate and in this case magnesium nitrate. for $75 or more per gallon.

What are the chances that this is what they really need? Ca:Mg at 3:1 or so... what happens to the medium with all that Mg? Stays wet for ever.

No one is saying that you can't grow with woo woo juice in a bottle, this is a weed, it will take all kinds of abuse. However, to raise the bar and achieve quality, high terps, no rasp, etc., that is different.

Many years ago, most of the fertilizers had a much better balance and then the phosphorus was pushed out to a certain extent.

 

[jidoka]

 

[Cannabologist]

It's kinda fun!

There are many many blends of what is kindly referred to as "woo woo juice" google it bolo.
Oh boy.... You're not that good at damage control. I figured you wouldn't be back after the calmag thing... Now I see you are doubling down on stupid... O...k..

Basically it means taking $0.30 of fertilizer and mixing it with water and selling it to clowns that don't bother to read where it says calcium nitrate and in this case magnesium nitrate. for $75 or more per gallon. Or it means you are buying a well formulated product at concentrations and ratios the plants you are growing need, you add at a certain rate, and VIOLA! No need to go cray buying loads of chemicals and mixing yourself and guessing and failing and taking all this time... Someone else made it easy for you. Time is money.
NO bottle of calmag is $75 a gallon. LoL well maybe some companies?? You can get a bottle of gh calimagic for roughly $40 a gallon off the top of my head. That is not expensive and no where near your inflated bullshit price. Everything you say is angry nonsense that simply goes on some attack angle that makes literally, no sense and is exaggerated bullshit.

What are the chances that this is what they really need? Ca:Mg at 3:1 or so... what happens to the medium with all that Mg? Stays wet for ever. The chances are in fact super high; all these companies especially the ones that stay in business are making the best products they can with the right formulations and proportions so you don't have to go to all this trouble sourcing chemicals yourself and wasting time doing it wrong the first 3 times trying to figure out what to add and how much and when and then did you wear safety gear while mixing some of those lololol why should it take an advanced chemistry degree to grow great weed again OH it doesn't morons can do it cheap and easy, cheaper and easier than you friend!

Media stays wet if you don't let it dry. A media depending on it's composition could say more or less wet depending on any number of reasons and factors. No one is having this problem with Mg unless you're an idiot and suck at following directions. The problem you are referring to with Mg, is a specific problem with certain soils and is a problem largely with large scale agro field growing and has nothing to do with cannabis indoors in pots or otherwise - you are bring into the discussion a mish mash of concepts that don't jive.

Frankly at this point you are just making up flack because you can't stand being wrong. I can stand being wrong, you go "oh shit, well, looks like I was wrong", and move on. Probably would only take a couple links to some vetted websites to do so.. Idk...

No one is saying that you can't grow with woo woo juice in a bottle, this is a weed, it will take all kinds of abuse. You just said you the opposite though. Now you are changing positions. Adding chemicals is woo woo juice rofl... How mad you are that you are proven SO wrong.. Its hilarious. Woo woo juice lollol
Keep calling chemicals woo woo juice now.

Again, according to you and your ridiculous ill-logic, nitrogen, phosphorous, sure all chemicals, what else, bat guano, lets see, microbes, worms castings, hell, ALL fertilizers at some level can be considered woo woo juice to you!!!

Better start digging up elements out of the ground in your backyard kids, smashing rocks down to bits, heating them up, and separating out those elements to mix yourself and add to your plants....
Because otherwise you are buying snake oil! woo woo juice!! Remember, grow organic!!! And by organic I mean add chemicals!!!!

lol .30cents eh>? Does that include shipping costs too ;-D ?? What about time wasted doing that work lol? Why pay chemists to do what a farm hand should be able to do?


However, to raise the bar and achieve quality, high terps, no rasp, etc., that is different. YEAH OK SURE BUDDY woo woo juice!
And I'm sure to get those terps too I need to dig the rocks myself by my own hands, no backhoes or tools, only human flesh hands, out of the earth myself BECAUSE OR ELSE...

Gtfo.

And and and... Wait.. Yours is magically better now??? ORLY?

NO WAY BRO!!! ORGANICS IS BETTER BRO don't you know you gotta feed the microbes mannnnn. Comeon I can't believe you mannnn monsanto! Dont you know, monsanto bro! Your feeding chems the chem weed is the WORST no terps no taste how can you get taste feeding chems bro you gotta feed your plants shit and poop and piss and vinegar. Literally vinegar and piss lolol.... I mean WTF BRO COMEON you're on icmag how dare you take a shit on organics like that!! rofl olololol

Where are all my religious organic heads here to decry you!!!

ROFL you are feeding chemicals, but now, feeding chemicals, because they are YOUR chemicals, you are getting terps, no rasp.. ROFL yeah ok

Terps rasp, all that is GENETICS BRO... .lolol are you one of those ash morons too who thinks ash changes colors based on how you fertilized and if you grew "organic" or "conventional"?? LOL... oh my God.. Seems like you might be but of a whole new variety rofl... The "sourced chemicals from my back yard vs bought at the store" stone head lol.

Srs though, its genes ;-D

You keep adding your woo woo juice and chasing calcium deficiencies, I'll add fertilizer that has been properly proportioned and figured out to be the optimum balanced ratios of elements for cannabis by scientists the world over, plus all the organic bio stimulant goodies, and grow better weed than you, save more time, more money, yes, save money by buying something whole teams of people put together for me who are constantly testing and innovating more than you or I ever could, and I'll reap all the benefits and rewards by foregoing time wasting nonsense, and just following the process.

All your claims of exorbitant and exaggerated costs are exactly that - nonsensical claims that are in fact time wasting, which are money wasting ventures.

Because in fact sourcing all the chemicals yourself, and trying to mix them up all the time, and doing that over and over... How much time did you just waste?? You wasted too much and you lost tens of thousands to millions simply not doing it right the first time and following the process.

You try to come from an area of sound logic but the practice is not all it appears it always depends on the operation and setup and what the business wants and style of growing of the farmer(s) involved,, most smart businesses will automate as many processes as possible and take out areas where human error is highest and so most all business people aren't going to go with some rando's numbers they made out of their house, they want a proven working business model with a proven process that works.

Many years ago, most of the fertilizers had a much better balance and then the phosphorus was pushed out to a certain extent. What?? And again... I ask and ask and ask... Where are the sources for any of the information you post??? Why isn't any of this common horticultural knowledge that is easily googleable?

The fertilizers formulated for cannabis today are way better than they are 5, 10, or 20 years ago because they have been customized and tailored for drug cannabis and it's needs for over the last 20 years by companies catering not to lettuce or corn growers but weed growers.

But you claim calmag is a 'stoner product' rofl seems like it is marketed to farmers of all sorts for particular plants and it there are good reasons why and you still can't coherently explain or source to us why or why not but pretty sure I told + linked why you'd want the Mg with the Ca and N and not just supplant alone..

Hell sure if you wanted to just supplant Mg you could use epsom salt ie. magnesium sulfate, in fact this is what is in many terp boosters or other finishing products you use throughout the end as you cut out N and Ca but you still want the Mg... But usually you don't use magnesium sulfate throughout and I can think of quite a few good reasons why could you lol? And why instead I'd use a mixture like calmag if necessary that's been formulated specifically for cannabis. Yes you are probably paying for some water, so what, I don't source the chemicals for my own soap and shampoo and mix those up too because what I am paying for in my bathroom is also comprised of water. That is the way it is for most things. Do you source the chlorine for your bleach and then dilute that yourself and then wash your white clothes with that? When you want a beer, do you first, well, grow some hops, then, rofl, well, you get the point to where you have to go to get some beer. Oh, oh, wait, no, first, you have to go to your backyard with your shovel. Oh you don't want to pay for a shovel cause you have 2 good hands? Sure sure guy then get to work!

You can buy epsom salts SLIGHTLY cheaper and figure it out yourself or hey look some company did all these tests and runs on multiple strains of cannabis for years and years with their nutrient products and figured out ideal ratios and formulations and scheduling for what nutrients, how much and when to add them and they did it all for you easy peasy no worries needed!!! It costs me how much more for that epsoms salts in water than have to figure it out myself or let some someone else figure it out and risk screwing up? Its all done for us cheap and easy???? Oh ok yeah lets do that!

You simply say "stoner product" and "woo woo juice" any momo can say that about anything doesn't make it so, but you keep laying down this ad hominem argument that makes no sense and is frankly childish and stupid. There are nutrient lines that forgo supplanting calcium but not many as usually extra is always needed and sure there are varying products that one could use besides products containing calcium nitrate, like calmag products. But calmag works, it's quick, and yeah, its not a bad thing like you claim lol but... ok.. llol...

We don't see any of your magic formulations, what are you using how much and when, where do you source them from what company and then how are you adding what is your procedure, what is the process what do you keep ph at what strains are your formula(s) even good for since strains all slightly vary I mean you could notecard us a wall of text I like reading it's ok

Its like you talk out of 2 sides of your mouth chemicals are bad but yet when YOU add chemicals oh oh, Oooh ok I get it it's not only okay its the best thing everrrrrrr and you are getting all this super quality and OF COURSE everyone else is growing shit rofl k yeah right guy you really gotta drop the bs

 

[slownickel]

It's kinda fun!

You are all over the place guy, chemicals, fertilizers, organic, etc.. hard to keep up with you flying all over the place. Good luck with your "science".

Just found how to ignore someone, wow. Wish I had found this button before!

 

[jidoka]

When custom hydro and I walked into one grow it was because they were facing a 0.5 million dollar per month nute bill with bottled nutes. We fixed that easily.

But then stuff they did not expect happened. Yield went up significantly. And they have thca data by strain going way back. We have improved that by at least 50% avg. no clue how it compares to anyone else’s quality but I got data for that grow.

Cost, yield, quality all going the right direction is a fair testimonial if you ask my dumb ass. Fuck bottled nute ratios regardless of how many phds are involved

 

[slownickel]

When custom hydro and I walked into one grow it was because they were facing a 0.5 million dollar per month nute bill with bottled nutes. We fixed that easily.

But then stuff they did not expect happened. Yield went up significantly. And they have thca data by strain going way back. We have improved that by at least 50% avg. no clue how it compares to anyone else’s quality but I got data for that grow.

Cost, yield, quality all going the right direction is a fair testimonial if you ask my dumb ass. Fuck bottled nute ratios regardless of how many phds are involved

I have heard the quality is getting pretty amazing. Congrats.