Good pull. This is the site I use as well.
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incorrect npk and supplement ratios are some of the reasons for shitty bud
Good pull. This is the site I use as well.
Sooo...
Nutes are nutes. Chemicals are chemicals. Fertilizer is fertilizer. All of the nutes you can find at your local hydro store will work great if you follow directions unlike most all the people here you'll see on this forum who fail up from not doing just that or rail against the very chemicals they feed to their media in shit form. Which have higher metal components than any of the bottles people might talk against.
Plants come in 2 forms in general when it comes to nutrient uptake, efficient feeders and heavy feeders. Some you add and youre good and its like no problems ever. Some bitches are like you are always chasing deficiencies. Its about selection. You'll see it now what I mean with different plants now that I mentioned it
Find a nute brand and use it and just stick to their schedule. All of them have been formulated for what cannabis needs and the nutrient schedules tailored to what cannabis wants when (ie. more p and k during mid bloom, etc. etc).
GH nova grow and bloom is super easy works great its awesome and any moron here shitting on rofl, bottled nutes, is using bottled nutes, plus other fertilizers. You can't grow weed without adding fertilizer, lots of fertilizer.
If you see from most all nute schedules you keep adding additional cal mag up to week 6 generally which then instead you should add additional mg usually as epsom salt to make up for the lack of it when you cut the cal mag, which also has nitrogen, since duh lol its calcium nitrate. Many "finishers" or other later stage terpene "boosters" are some kind of magnesium... And also potassium is another element that may be needed in later stages.
As with what you see in all the discussion on forums, there are some slight tweaks to the nutritional needs of each individual plant, as well as variation in the populations (strains) from what different varieties may require, and at different times.
This fact that plants and strains are mostly the same but then especially as flowering progresses have different nutrient requirements has led to all the infighting and banning and "no my ways and methods are better" over and over and over and over. Its simple genetics 101 really. The nute companies figured this out a long time ago if anyone is wondering what cannabis requires, and when, look up the schedules of GH, AN, H16, H+G, UC, etc. its all right there and when and even how much ppms/ec. Certain brand do a bit better either because they are more customizable or just have a regimen more tailored and a particular variety likes that regimen just a bit better.
A calcium def shows up as rust spots on the leaf veins. That guy posting a pic of a yellow plant claiming Ca deficiency at 60 days is wrong , that is nitrogen deficiency and potassium deficiency, but with that plant that looks more like natural fading... The browning tips pointing down are K, but could almost be mistaken for nute burn. The overall yellowing is N, but what is odd there is no reddening of the major leaf vein from the petiole and it's day 60 which tells me again that yellowing is more so organic fading, the lack of yield is from lack of K.. Ca is rust spots that will start from the bottom up, N is overall yellowing bottom up. Mg is curling up of the leaf serrations and also in between the leaf veins. There are a lot of guides showing you what deficiencies look like but honestly they kinda stink and some don't get it quite right.
Ca def will show up fast from the bottom up, again as rust spots on the leaves. Ca def often follows along side a N def, as well as Mg and K, as all the elements tend to work in tandem.
Getting calcium into a plant isn't too hard... There are tons of products, ie. cal mag, at your local hydro shop that'll supplant you with calcium. There are other calcium products that can also be applied, some are foliar sprays, such as Heavy16's Foliar. Amino acids will help unlock Ca and help a plant uptake Ca. You can totally revive a plant quickly with applications of calmag if you are suffering a cal mg deficiency.
Stop listening to people on forums on the internet. Go watch the Harley Smith videos on youtube, find a easy nute line, and stick with that.
Most of the reasons for shitty bud are first shitty genetics. The best stuff is a clone someone else got lucky with and kept. The second is lack of feeding/environment. There is a reason why they call it "weed".
Like your initial post, people simply aren't good at following directions or think they can do it better themselves. There's a reason why all the big nutrient companies have been around for years. They don't just willy-nilly throw chemicals in a bottle. The metals content of all fertilizer products is available online for free from for aafpo or whatever it is website I can't remember what it is.. People who say XY nutrient company sucks generally don't know how to follow directions and want to skimp out on using all of a line's parts/supplements, which are important. But yes sure lol XYZ co. sucks so bad since they've been around forever and nubs and pros alike kill it with their products. Its a process that was figured out long ago, not a "yeahhh man my formula/method/take on chemistry and horticulture is the best". Most all companies copy GH's formulations.
Nutes are nutes. Chemicals are chemicals. Fertilizer is fertilizer. All of the nutes you can find at your local hydro store will work great if you follow directions unlike most all the people here you'll see on this forum who fail up from not doing just that or rail against the very chemicals they feed to their media in shit form. Which have higher metal components than any of the bottles people might talk against.
Plants come in 2 forms in general when it comes to nutrient uptake, efficient feeders and heavy feeders. Some you add and youre good and its like no problems ever. Some bitches are like you are always chasing deficiencies. Its about selection. You'll see it now what I mean with different plants now that I mentioned it
Find a nute brand and use it and just stick to their schedule. All of them have been formulated for what cannabis needs and the nutrient schedules tailored to what cannabis wants when (ie. more p and k during mid bloom, etc. etc).
GH nova grow and bloom is super easy works great its awesome and any moron here shitting on rofl, bottled nutes, is using bottled nutes, plus other fertilizers. You can't grow weed without adding fertilizer, lots of fertilizer.
If you see from most all nute schedules you keep adding additional cal mag up to week 6 generally which then instead you should add additional mg usually as epsom salt to make up for the lack of it when you cut the cal mag, which also has nitrogen, since duh lol its calcium nitrate. Many "finishers" or other later stage terpene "boosters" are some kind of magnesium... And also potassium is another element that may be needed in later stages.
As with what you see in all the discussion on forums, there are some slight tweaks to the nutritional needs of each individual plant, as well as variation in the populations (strains) from what different varieties may require, and at different times.
This fact that plants and strains are mostly the same but then especially as flowering progresses have different nutrient requirements has led to all the infighting and banning and "no my ways and methods are better" over and over and over and over. Its simple genetics 101 really. The nute companies figured this out a long time ago if anyone is wondering what cannabis requires, and when, look up the schedules of GH, AN, H16, H+G, UC, etc. its all right there and when and even how much ppms/ec. Certain brand do a bit better either because they are more customizable or just have a regimen more tailored and a particular variety likes that regimen just a bit better.
A calcium def shows up as rust spots on the leaf veins. That guy posting a pic of a yellow plant claiming Ca deficiency at 60 days is wrong , that is nitrogen deficiency and potassium deficiency, but with that plant that looks more like natural fading... The browning tips pointing down are K, but could almost be mistaken for nute burn. The overall yellowing is N, but what is odd there is no reddening of the major leaf vein from the petiole and it's day 60 which tells me again that yellowing is more so organic fading, the lack of yield is from lack of K.. Ca is rust spots that will start from the bottom up, N is overall yellowing bottom up. Mg is curling up of the leaf serrations and also in between the leaf veins. There are a lot of guides showing you what deficiencies look like but honestly they kinda stink and some don't get it quite right.
Ca def will show up fast from the bottom up, again as rust spots on the leaves. Ca def often follows along side a N def, as well as Mg and K, as all the elements tend to work in tandem.
Getting calcium into a plant isn't too hard... There are tons of products, ie. cal mag, at your local hydro shop that'll supplant you with calcium. There are other calcium products that can also be applied, some are foliar sprays, such as Heavy16's Foliar. Amino acids will help unlock Ca and help a plant uptake Ca. You can totally revive a plant quickly with applications of calmag if you are suffering a cal mg deficiency.
Stop listening to people on forums on the internet. Go watch the Harley Smith videos on youtube, find a easy nute line, and stick with that.
Most of the reasons for shitty bud are first shitty genetics. The best stuff is a clone someone else got lucky with and kept. The second is lack of feeding/environment. There is a reason why they call it "weed".
Like your initial post, people simply aren't good at following directions or think they can do it better themselves. There's a reason why all the big nutrient companies have been around for years. They don't just willy-nilly throw chemicals in a bottle. The metals content of all fertilizer products is available online for free from for aafpo or whatever it is website I can't remember what it is.. People who say XY nutrient company sucks generally don't know how to follow directions and want to skimp out on using all of a line's parts/supplements, which are important. But yes sure lol XYZ co. sucks so bad since they've been around forever and nubs and pros alike kill it with their products. Its a process that was figured out long ago, not a "yeahhh man my formula/method/take on chemistry and horticulture is the best". Most all companies copy GH's formulations.
Cannabol,
Have you ever calculated a GH or AN line to see what they are applying? Completely upside.down. 4 times more K than P for example.
Following instructions will get you a more or less crop. Those that have learned to run numbers correctly using science, are achieving both yields and quality that they have never seen before. Given you are recommending a stoner product like calmag, you haven't realized what applying all that Magnesium does to the soil and the crop. All that Mg and K fill in the sites of Ca. Not good. Waiting to see visual symptoms means you missed the boat a long time ago. And getting Ca uptake is not easy. It only happens when the organic acids are exuded from root tips. Meaning that if it is wet, minimal Ca uptake. Have you ever run uptake Ca curves? I do it all the time. In grapes, avocadoes, mangoes, melons, blueberries and cannabis currently.
Have you ever calculated a GH or AN line to see what they are applying? Completely upside.down. 4 times more K than P for example.
Following instructions will get you a more or less crop. Those that have learned to run numbers correctly using science, are achieving both yields and quality that they have never seen before. Given you are recommending a stoner product like calmag, you haven't realized what applying all that Magnesium does to the soil and the crop. All that Mg and K fill in the sites of Ca. Not good. Waiting to see visual symptoms means you missed the boat a long time ago. And getting Ca uptake is not easy. It only happens when the organic acids are exuded from root tips. Meaning that if it is wet, minimal Ca uptake. Have you ever run uptake Ca curves? I do it all the time. In grapes, avocadoes, mangoes, melons, blueberries and cannabis currently.
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Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Missed this one earlier.
LOL I wish I had the cash to send it for testing. I'm also in the wrong state. You'll find my residual npk/micros to be extremely low and the terps are way higher than any "organic" offerings I've come across. (For over a decade) As for mold and all that other crap? Don't make me laugh, I use HEPA filters and actually know how to grow. No organic fungi web (a healthy organic soil) throwing spores up with the dirt it's growing in. (I object to putting soil and other air contaminates in a HEPA filtered environment. Ruins the cannabis.)
I'll be entering competitions in the next year or so, you'll have your chance. I would LOVE to have someone beat my quality, my wife gets pissed when I don't grow enough (she's so spoiled. lol) Would be very handy to have an additional source of "clean" cannabis around. lol Can't wait to meet whoever it is, they'll have some serious skills.
So this is leaf with a whole bunch of energy stored as fat. That sets the plant up to maximize terpenes and thc. It also protects the plant from pest/disease regardless if they are present in the room or not
Ratios are nothing like any bottled nute line there is. Not even close
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
It'd have to be completely different, you're right. Any time I see leaves that dark and shiny, the quality has always been negatively affected. Be really cool to have soft aromatic and flavorful smoke, from plants that dark green. I'd have to actually experience that to believe it. Nothing personal.
No idea! I could figure it out but there's no need.. If thats true, sounds right! Not upside down..
Every scientific study I have read on cannabis shows it requires much more K than P, so yes that is not surprising to me. Cannabis even requires more K than N, and Ca is nearly as high as N as I am remembering without going over some numbers. So no that is not upside down to me. Cannabis will uptake luxury Ca, and drug cannabis has been bred to need high K especially during flowering.
People who follow directions are doing superbly amazing just as much as anyone trying to do something fancy and they will likely do it on their first try if they follow directions ie. follow the process that has already been found that is optimal... BOTH are using "science" correctly, idk what that really is supposed to mean or imply rofl when it comes to one person using fertilizers versus another person using fertilizers... That's a nonsensical way to describe the processes both are using, ie. adding chemicals to water mixing it up and adding it to plants. WOW science! It's not some magical amazing thing k. Its farming. Chemistry is chemistry, and someone figured out that chemistry for you and no one has to go cray over nutes anymore. Ever see the veg bloom thread lol..
But of course yours and your method and your bud and your nutes and everything YOU do is the best... THATs why we all do it ourselves! You wouldn't be growing otherwise. Why would you?? Straight greed? A smart business man would simply farm out the business to worker bees. Brokering is a better gig easier and less overhead and headaches and no shortage, so why do it?? Cause we love to duh!
And when you make your own shit, of course its the best. Its the same as making your own soil.
Not just every plant going though your hands, every inch of soil mixed up with your hands. The whole schebang.
Of course that's the best thing ever. to yourself. and maybe some other people. We all know this feeling.
There are no "correct numbers" for cannabis.. outside of the well known proper pH, ec/ppm ranges for vegetative and flowering plants of varying stages, temp, humidity, etc.., If you want to reverse engineer a formula that is going to be pretty much the same chemicals and numbers as any nutrient companies' line, congrats, you just wasted a bunch of time when you could have gone to a store and bought something someone else already did, or just copy the formulas people have online that we know already work and their schedules. Cause I'm sure doing it yourself.. You'll figure out via trial and error it's all the same as someone has figured out already! Remember... Science! llol. F'n science.
There really isn't much room for debate as to what's "best" or "better" anymore when it comes to cannabis, or horticulture, ie. farming, in general... Better is the technology that comes out as companies innovate, such as indoor lighting technology has over the years. Style is a matter of opinion, every farming method has benefits and drawbacks or reasons as to why to do this and or not that, or as new information comes out, old and new practices dropped and taken up.
Yo' plants need cal mag. Period. Thats my quote for the day. I donno what all that mumbo jumbo you are talking about filling in the sites of Ca and K doing this and blah blah. I could talk about the Ca-mg-k "complex" and how that all works in tandem but really that is just some boring nonsense plant biochemistry 101 that doesn't mean dick shit F' all since literal damaged morons can grow dank dro if they just follow the process, and feeding fertilizer to your plants is not some gigantic chemical magic thing that requires schooling of any kind,, or knowledge of any chemistry at all, or anything that you are talking about. You don't need chemistry or biochemistry. You need a nutrient schedule and everything else about cannabis horticulture I could give to you on one side of an index card and you will grow dank pounds if your genetics are there which is why I suggest proven clones. I could bore a person about why a company does this this way or that that way or how this is uptaken in the soil and how that works or what is more important ala volumes but alllllllllllllllllllll that.......... Is stupid boring crap, like what you told me. Here's the super duper secret dudes won't tell you on the forums like icmag: You feed your plants, you do things right, they'll be happy and you'll grow stuff
You might know something no one else does, but its really just moot because the principle you can point to doesn't matter in practice and in process... Most plants will need extra cal mag, thats why its there and all the lines will have it for you to add save for a few which either add enough calcium or supplant calcium in a different form such as in foliar form. All that mg doesn't do anything to the soil and crop, except make it happy, since mg is an essential component of chlorophyll, and plants need all the essential elements or else, well, growth and especially yield are reduced. If you can tell us why mg is bad or cal mag is bad, well, I don't know how much it would really matter or change in terms of the things everyone else knows and the processes everyone uses, I am sure not a thing but who knows maybe you will pioneer something new?? idk who you are you could be a somebody for all I know I'm not not a nobody lol
My point is, whatever all this stuff you are trying to sound overly smart about really doesn't matter and you can link us all to heaven with whatever it is you think matters or is happening when people are feeding nutrients from all these companies vs what you are doing, and following the schedules, following the processes everyone already uses, knows, and we all know works. I actually would be happy to see it. But I'm kinda thinking.. What you are thinking is happening, isn't, or isn't happening as you think it is, until people add too much, and so on. I hate to shit on ideas, but I know from experience both with my own ideas and the ideas of others,, those ideas are usually shit lol. Process process process. Even fat/ugly dudes can pick up hot girls.
If you see visual symptoms of a cal mag deficiency you simply haven't been feeding enough, and you likely have a heavy feeding plant, vs an efficiently feeding plant. All you need to do is feed some and you will notice greening and restoration to the vigor of the plant within a couple days of application. You didn't "miss the boat" you just didn't feed enough nutrients... This happens often since most people either err on the side of caution and so wind up under-fertilizing or don't realize cannabis is a calcium hog and thus again are under-fertilizing, or their plants are heavy feeders, and again under ferting.
Getting ca uptake is um... Super easy. idk why you'd really think so other than you just aren't feeding the right fertilizers in the right amounts so you are thus always chasing that calmag deficiency especially with your heavy feeding plants.. You just have to add a little more and you use it all throughout flowering as well. In soil this should be no problem there are so many options beyond cal mag too but i recommend it because, it' works, its fast acting, its not hurting dick, and its needed. If you are using a hydroponics system there is always some debate on the most optimal optimal range for ph but last I checked it was 5.8 to 6.3. I'd stick by that yep. That range could widen some but if you want optimus prime I haven't heard different yet.
ROFL @ "stoner product".. You mean like "nitrogen" and phosphorus and rofl, you know, chemicals, all those stoner products? rofl yeah chemicals are stoner products I agree. And light bulbs! Stoner products. Oooh. ooh. Baggies. Lunch? No! Weed! What would Glad do without f'n potheads and the weed industry???
What about bat guano? Yes I agree stoner product all the way!
lol the things people say...
You feed fertilizer as you would any line and follow directions and success will ensure more often than not as long as a few simple parameters of an environment are also in check. Low humidity can inhibit Ca uptake, so this is something to watch for if humidity drops low like it does in winter or in certain locales of course. If you are having a problem with Ca uptake adding amino acids in particular, but also humic substances along with kelp, can help nutrient uptake.
I donno anything about ca uptake curves, maybe I should google it before making this post so I can sound smart about it with some wacky dacky comment about it... Meh no sounds fun but I have the usual goin on saving people's grows I see it time and time again they fail in following the process and I fix that and I gotta say, if I was wrong, I wouldn't be around long so as I've said before of course I trust in Jesus and I take cash. Only cash.
Read Dr. Victor Tiedjens, who also advocated nutrient balancing and look at his production data, both yield and quality went through the roof.
The same that has been happening here, yields and quality going through the roof.
Nutrient uptake is one thing, balance is another.
In NO OTHER agricultural industry does CalMag exist That is a stoner industry input and you all seem to suck it up by the truckload and all that Mg really does screw up your quality. Most farmers/agronomists know the problems you get with all that Mg. Maybe go watch the video in my thread by a couple of PhD's (oops, scientific types, start the bonfire!)
Sorry you are so closed minded to the "science".
But on the chance that you do read Tiedjens you will see the arguments and results of feeding having the balance say 1-2-1, which is reported in P2O5 and K2O. This means more phosphate than potash. However, if you do the math, you would quickly realize that this is actually a 1-1-1 in terms of actual P and K (phosphorus and potassium).
Again, those that tried these ratios all saw amazing results in cannabis, but hey, that is science! There is definitely cause and effect. But if you don't understand what drives the cause, you are just guessing!
I know lots of commercial farmers that think the way you do, you aren't alone. At the end of the day, their results are mediocre and have more excuses than there is sand in the desert.
Given that everyone that has attempted to understand soil science (not what is preached by the fertilizer industry) and apply soil science is loving the result.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
What are your residual NPK and micro levels in the end flowers?
ADHDGrower
Member
Magnesium Deficiency is quite common in some Strains. I have seen Mg and even N beeing blocked, after Transplanting in Coco freshly ammended with Gypsum.
So there is definitely a need to Balance the 3 Cations, Ca, Mg and K. Starting with the right amount of K and only increasing it at the right Stages of Growth.
What if we actually mostly apply too much K, which leads to much Mg beeing applied which in the End actually affects P, leading to half the Population of Growers, having reddish Stems and Petiole on their Indicas?
Just a Thought
So there is definitely a need to Balance the 3 Cations, Ca, Mg and K. Starting with the right amount of K and only increasing it at the right Stages of Growth.
What if we actually mostly apply too much K, which leads to much Mg beeing applied which in the End actually affects P, leading to half the Population of Growers, having reddish Stems and Petiole on their Indicas?
Just a Thought
Magnesium Deficiency is quite common in some Strains. I have seen Mg and even N beeing blocked, after Transplanting in Coco freshly ammended with Gypsum.
So there is definitely a need to Balance the 3 Cations, Ca, Mg and K. Starting with the right amount of K and only increasing it at the right Stages of Growth.
What if we actually mostly apply too much K, which leads to much Mg beeing applied which in the End actually affects P, leading to half the Population of Growers, having reddish Stems and Petiole on their Indicas?
Just a Thought
Took me years to understand, but it is really hard to have a real Mg deficiency. In coco, if it is really coco, that is hydroponics. I know the limitations and there is not much I can say to help. In hydro you need to apply everything, the key is balance.
And your conclusions are 100% correct. It really comes down to not enough P versus the quantity of K, which at the end of the day is a function of Ca.
Try using a higher proportion of P in your feeding and see what happens to that Mg deficiency! The magic proportions are 1-2-1.
ADHDGrower
Member
I respect your Contributions and Experience. Would be cool though if you were more inclined to allow others a different school of thought, given that theres a myriad of different ways
to Grow. Agriculture Soil Science, Growing on a Field in Nature or Feeding a Deepwater Culture, there has to be some Differences i guess.
ADHDGrower
Member
Food for Thought! Discussion Go.
Thread allready derailed, lots of Attacks on others
need more Posts for PN 
I am not familiar with the term residual. How do you test for that?
Mg is a very mobile element. With proper tissue testing the plant tells you how much it needs. Cannabis needs less than most plants... not more. Slow is right, P is the issue most have
Missed this one earlier.
LOL I wish I had the cash to send it for testing. I'm also in the wrong state. You'll find my residual npk/micros to be extremely low and the terps are way higher than any "organic" offerings I've come across. (For over a decade) As for mold and all that other crap? Don't make me laugh, I use HEPA filters and actually know how to grow. No organic fungi web (a healthy organic soil) throwing spores up with the dirt it's growing in. (I object to putting soil and other air contaminates in a HEPA filtered environment. Ruins the cannabis.)
I'll be entering competitions in the next year or so, you'll have your chance. I would LOVE to have someone beat my quality, my wife gets pissed when I don't grow enough (she's so spoiled. lol) Would be very handy to have an additional source of "clean" cannabis around. lol Can't wait to meet whoever it is, they'll have some serious skills.
I'm in the process of processing tests currently. I have multiple tests to do.
1st off my personal is just that. I claim it not to be free from P&D or residual just that it burns supreme..
I'm testing that to see what happens to be the results. No hotshot whizz this is all that here..
I also want to test a top from one plant in the grow v's one from another area of the grown in different light & angle.
My next test is to specifically test the contamination level on a crop. The bract that the contaminant came from & the surrounding buds above below & the levels of contamination in those samples & the siblings in the same area..
I am having tests done on progeny too.
I'm having full analysis done & then I will have them send my sample to a cup in 2 countries.
I hope that turns up in someone's signature.
