Z
zoolander
If I were a seed company I would send all my seed's to Zoo because he needs more seed's LOL
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If I were a seed company
- Thread starter bigbrokush
- Start date
bigbrokush said:
Well if you consider using Acapulco Gold, Columbian Gold, Thai, Afghan from Afghanistan, to make my own hybrids then I am guilty even though I did not steal the work of any one individual. Lets be honest, thousand of farmers did the work over hundreds of years and no one farmer can claim the variety as his work. Can you name the owner of any variety I used?
I was thinking more of a newly created variety, not seen before, with new characteristics, as well as a name brand.
I know when people knocked off my Skunk #1 they used the name as well as my genetics, to me that is theft...
If they would of made hybrids at least they would of done some work..
Whatever, if you don't understand the difference it is a waste to talk to you.
-SamS
PointBlank
Member
If I were a seed company I would develope the best Genentic's I could, by way of the best, seeds/clones, or whatever, money could buy (Heirloom strain). By the way, when you purchase a seed/clone from a vendor, you are entitled to do anything with those genetics, just as if you bought any purebred dog, cat, horse, ect. It's the same legal principal. So if you want to make F2's, so be it, people shouldn't be upset with you because you didn't originate the genetics. The originator was initial paid for their work. If they felt the gene pool shouldn't go past one generation, don't give out genetic's then or sell bud. I do feel if you make F2's,make the best, or better yet a cross, hunting for that new elite.
"By the way, when you purchase a seed/clone from a vendor, you are entitled to do anything with those genetics, just as if you bought any purebred dog, cat, horse, ect. It's the same legal principal. "
PointBlank,
You obviously have little knowledge of how seeds and plants are made and protected, and sold world wide. If Cannabis were a legal crop then plant protection would protect new varieties. What I am saying is that if you take and sell a new variety of tomatoes, apples, carrots, or anything else the owner of the variety could sue you in court and get you to stop as well as get payment for you stealing his work. In the USA that includes hybrids of a protected variety. Also you are ignoring the name of the variety, it also has protection, I can't develop a variety of tomato called Big Beef, the name is used and protected just as the genetics are.
When Cannabis is legal you will see what I mean...
BTW I might point out that you knocking off something you somehow got is not the same as spending years traveling to find superior genetics, growing them to find the winners, as well as spending years to make hybrids consistent and open pollinated, true breeding. Then to have someone come along and knock off the work for their profit, with little to no work. It is not the same to me at all. But I have been through this a million times, it will not change until Cannabis is legal and breeders rights can be protected just like any other agricultural crop.
-SamS
PointBlank,
You obviously have little knowledge of how seeds and plants are made and protected, and sold world wide. If Cannabis were a legal crop then plant protection would protect new varieties. What I am saying is that if you take and sell a new variety of tomatoes, apples, carrots, or anything else the owner of the variety could sue you in court and get you to stop as well as get payment for you stealing his work. In the USA that includes hybrids of a protected variety. Also you are ignoring the name of the variety, it also has protection, I can't develop a variety of tomato called Big Beef, the name is used and protected just as the genetics are.
When Cannabis is legal you will see what I mean...
BTW I might point out that you knocking off something you somehow got is not the same as spending years traveling to find superior genetics, growing them to find the winners, as well as spending years to make hybrids consistent and open pollinated, true breeding. Then to have someone come along and knock off the work for their profit, with little to no work. It is not the same to me at all. But I have been through this a million times, it will not change until Cannabis is legal and breeders rights can be protected just like any other agricultural crop.
-SamS
D
Dalaihempy
PointBlank said:
Good luck finding them all thats offerd is hybrids.
Sam_Skunkman said:
My vue is if you were smart inuf to colect and save genetics its your right to sell and make money from them my main problem with todays seed biz is why are there only hybrids offerd why dont people offer pure sativas and alike i know a lot of it comes down to protecting perent lines but how many have the skill or time to creat hybrids wouldnt it be better to offer these things and have them preserved by haveing many growers running them instead of a few haveing seed stored.
Sam_Skunkman said:
Sam correct me if im wrong here i always thort sk1 was your work i read a post in over grow many years ago a few in a collective worked on sk in a collective group of growers you being one of them and is this the reson why there were a few sk lines or did all the diffrent sk lines come from your sk1.
Its kind of a sore subject, but what we need to do is look at it from both sides.
Lets put it in a music perspective, lets say I make a song, a big time artist hears it, copies it and gets rich, off my words. Lord knows I dont own words, but you better be damn sure ima be pisses of, he stole my song.
Its the same thing with the seed buisness, somebody puts in the work, i hack it cut there profits. Damn right their gonna be pisses off, and they have every right to.
But on another note, my 1st seed purchases were from nirvana, and joey weed's c99(the F2 c99 was some good shit) Why? cause they were cheap and I dont make or have alot of money. So why would i start off with a hundred dollar bag of seeds, that might not even make it to me?
I think the only way to prevent all the hacking would be for seed companies to under cut the under cutters. LOWER PRICES. You heard it from a true breeder himself. The amount of seeds you can get from 1 plant is more than the 3-4 packs put on seedbay to drive up the demand.
So than you here the argument, the risk im taking, the amount of time im facing if busted.
A. Alot of the people buying your seeds are taking the same risk.
B. You know the buisness before you get into it, its your decision, you choose your occupation.
Lets make it about the plant again, not about the profit margin. this plant is not only dollars in some peoples pockets, its medicine. My 2 cents.
Lets put it in a music perspective, lets say I make a song, a big time artist hears it, copies it and gets rich, off my words. Lord knows I dont own words, but you better be damn sure ima be pisses of, he stole my song.
Its the same thing with the seed buisness, somebody puts in the work, i hack it cut there profits. Damn right their gonna be pisses off, and they have every right to.
But on another note, my 1st seed purchases were from nirvana, and joey weed's c99(the F2 c99 was some good shit) Why? cause they were cheap and I dont make or have alot of money. So why would i start off with a hundred dollar bag of seeds, that might not even make it to me?
I think the only way to prevent all the hacking would be for seed companies to under cut the under cutters. LOWER PRICES. You heard it from a true breeder himself. The amount of seeds you can get from 1 plant is more than the 3-4 packs put on seedbay to drive up the demand.
So than you here the argument, the risk im taking, the amount of time im facing if busted.
A. Alot of the people buying your seeds are taking the same risk.
B. You know the buisness before you get into it, its your decision, you choose your occupation.
Lets make it about the plant again, not about the profit margin. this plant is not only dollars in some peoples pockets, its medicine. My 2 cents.
Dalaihempy said:
Breeders do not offer true breeding varieties because they do not want others knocking them off. I thought I was doing people a favor to offer true breeding varieties, but that did make them real easy to knock off, and they were knocked off, to say the least.
The story about a collective is made up lies. I did all the work.
-SamS
C
charlie garcia
Maybe work is not needed anymore and we should conform ourselves with present things and situation as hybrids are already very potent indeed. Maybe they are right.
i feel the same way as zoo just reverse sending them to him and send them to benji...lolzoolander said:
IF I WERE A SEED COMPANY??most of people on here aint so stop wondering IF!!
so much whining on price 4 seeds if u cant afford it just dont buy it dont whinge about it...i cant afford a porsche(at the moment) i dont whinge about the prices and i certainly wouldnt buy a volkswagon even though they are made in the same factory. I would start saving so i could buy one not whinge about the price, i guess what im trying to say is people can put whatever price they feel is acceptable to the work thats gone into making their product as good as it is, so if people are willing to pay 4 it then why not...
not everyone owns a porsche and not everyone owns good seeds it just seperates the people who are willing to pay 4 something with their hard earned money and the people who are cheapskates...
Ps I aint saying your a cheapskate if u cant afford a porsche, im only saying ur a cheapskate if u whinge about the price. If u cant afford it then dont talk about it...
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Cuzin_Dave
Active member
Sam, what I did I notice about the Classic Skunk of the 1980's was the incredible genetic diversity and richness of the Skunk lines. There was California Skunk, Hawaiian Skunk, Oregon Skunk, Skunk Red Hair, Northeastern Skunk and so on and so on back then, and they were all great. To be honest, my first grows were Skunk bag seeds and the plants these seeds produced were more true breeding and uniform than some of the crap people want hundreds of dollars for today.
I disagree, strongly, with Sam's point on this topic.
I disagree, strongly, with Sam's point on this topic.
It'll be a sad day when cannabis strains are protected by laws. Sure, a very, very, very few of us will benefit from these laws, but the majority of the freedom and fun we are having right now would vanish overnight if you had your way on this one, Sam. I think you even know that, but are arguing from upon high because you happened to be alive and involved at the right place and in the right time to be known as an early collector of cannabis genetics. These genetics have been worked for centuries or even eons... For a guy in the 70's to take the reigns from hundreds or thousands of years of breeding work, and state that anyone doing what you did from now on is a thief, is entirely hypocritical.
As a leader and innovator in the field of cannabis, I'd think one would want to encourage the continuation of these hundreds or thousands of years of breeding, not bottle and trap it all under copyrights and patents.
You, Sam, went into the land to find these genetics, this is what we are all to understand. For this I commend you... But that work has been done and over for a long, long time. If I were you, I'd be HONORED that the new generation has taken the torch from me, and is charging forth into the future with the flame I passed them.
Under Sam's version of the way things should be, all the fun we've been having will be over... Corporations will sue anyone they find to be openly using copyrighted genetics to make new hybrids. Progress will be controlled by corporate interests (like we need more of that shit), and the end of a very productive era (which Sam himself benefited from) will come to an abrupt end.
Now, as for seed companies... If a company releases 100 packs of seeds at $X, and they are all bought up and enjoyed... Who's to say the company did anything wrong? There are potentially 100 happy customers out there who will soon forget the price they paid. One good seed can produce a mother that can be cloned a billion times. Or... The one pack of ten seeds yields 5 females, each yielding 2 ounces of kind herb... equaling 10 ounces. Now, at a mean street price of about $350(us) per ounce of kind, we end up with $3500. NO TEN PACK IS TOO EXPENSIVE. I wish folks would just get that through their cheap ass skulls! If a pack of seeds sells for $200, it was worth exactly $200 to the buyer. Go ahead and argue it, it's like arguing that the sun isn't what gave you sunburn.
Also, if we want to argue that a hybrid someone did with Skunk#1 sells for $200, and Sam doesn't get any of it... well... why not give kickbacks of all your seed sales to the Afghani families you visited to get your genetics? Is it somehow different in that case, Sam? You know it's not, and you know this particular point of yours doesn't hold water when anyone spends more than 10 seconds thinking about it.
You have an honorable place in cannabis history, but history it is, and as long as corporate interests still don't have a strangle hold on cannabis innovation, new breeders will continue making new history. Let's hope future generations of breeders can remain humble, and urge the community to innovate, instead of stagnate.
Nothing personal against you, Sam, just against the point you lay upon our table here.
I disagree, strongly, with Sam's point on this topic.
It'll be a sad day when cannabis strains are protected by laws. Sure, a very, very, very few of us will benefit from these laws, but the majority of the freedom and fun we are having right now would vanish overnight if you had your way on this one, Sam. I think you even know that, but are arguing from upon high because you happened to be alive and involved at the right place and in the right time to be known as an early collector of cannabis genetics. These genetics have been worked for centuries or even eons... For a guy in the 70's to take the reigns from hundreds or thousands of years of breeding work, and state that anyone doing what you did from now on is a thief, is entirely hypocritical.
As a leader and innovator in the field of cannabis, I'd think one would want to encourage the continuation of these hundreds or thousands of years of breeding, not bottle and trap it all under copyrights and patents.
You, Sam, went into the land to find these genetics, this is what we are all to understand. For this I commend you... But that work has been done and over for a long, long time. If I were you, I'd be HONORED that the new generation has taken the torch from me, and is charging forth into the future with the flame I passed them.
Under Sam's version of the way things should be, all the fun we've been having will be over... Corporations will sue anyone they find to be openly using copyrighted genetics to make new hybrids. Progress will be controlled by corporate interests (like we need more of that shit), and the end of a very productive era (which Sam himself benefited from) will come to an abrupt end.
Now, as for seed companies... If a company releases 100 packs of seeds at $X, and they are all bought up and enjoyed... Who's to say the company did anything wrong? There are potentially 100 happy customers out there who will soon forget the price they paid. One good seed can produce a mother that can be cloned a billion times. Or... The one pack of ten seeds yields 5 females, each yielding 2 ounces of kind herb... equaling 10 ounces. Now, at a mean street price of about $350(us) per ounce of kind, we end up with $3500. NO TEN PACK IS TOO EXPENSIVE. I wish folks would just get that through their cheap ass skulls! If a pack of seeds sells for $200, it was worth exactly $200 to the buyer. Go ahead and argue it, it's like arguing that the sun isn't what gave you sunburn.
Also, if we want to argue that a hybrid someone did with Skunk#1 sells for $200, and Sam doesn't get any of it... well... why not give kickbacks of all your seed sales to the Afghani families you visited to get your genetics? Is it somehow different in that case, Sam? You know it's not, and you know this particular point of yours doesn't hold water when anyone spends more than 10 seconds thinking about it.
You have an honorable place in cannabis history, but history it is, and as long as corporate interests still don't have a strangle hold on cannabis innovation, new breeders will continue making new history. Let's hope future generations of breeders can remain humble, and urge the community to innovate, instead of stagnate.
Nothing personal against you, Sam, just against the point you lay upon our table here.
listen to crazycomposer my point exactly bout what a 10 pack of seeds or just 1 seed can offer you in the long run he just made it more clear and easier to understand, thats why he is a moderator....
much respect to you crazycomposer..
much respect to you crazycomposer..
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CC, IF Cannabis remains/becomes an underground illegal scene, we need F2 and knock offs of all we can get, however if the market becomes more like "normal business" then peoples work should be protected as it is with all other plants.
Right now it is simply not worth producing something excellent as the world + dog would rip it off. If Cannabis breeders had IP protection like every other flower and vegetable seed producer - just go and read a legal seed packet if you do not believe me - then it would be worth breeding and releasing some amazing new lines.
Right now it is simply not worth producing something excellent as the world + dog would rip it off. If Cannabis breeders had IP protection like every other flower and vegetable seed producer - just go and read a legal seed packet if you do not believe me - then it would be worth breeding and releasing some amazing new lines.
Crazy Composer said:
Well you are right that I disagree with you. If a person spends a lot of time money and energy creating intellectual property, like Skunk #1 the first true breeding Indica X Sativa hybrid, a process that took years of seed searching in 3rd world countries, and then takes the time to find superior examples, then hybridizes them and makes them true breeding before release, a process that took years and years, you really think the work should not be protected? That anyone should be able to buy a package of Skunk #1 and make their own Skunk #1 seeds and sell them? That is sad...
This will prevent real breeders from releasing their work, because they know it would be stolen. Why protect music, tomato varieties or anything by patent with this kind of thinking? With patents Cannabis growers will still have the same access to unimproved Cannabis or un-patented Cannabis varieties as they do today, they can still work as much as they like. I am just saying it is not correct to buy a pack of seeds and then knock it off with the same name intact to increase sales. How about a little breeding work?
As for the collecting being done a long long time ago, says who? I still spend a lot of time and money collecting Cannabis seeds, from their sources, every year.
I wonder how you make your living? Do you buy or use any patent protected items? Of course you do you hypocritical fool. Sorry to be harsh but I am tired of people wanting Cannabis to somehow be special and outside the normal laws, I want it legal and treated like all other Agricultural crops, all of which can be protected by plant protection. You act as though no one will be able to work with Cannabis if legal. I say it would be great for Cannabis if Burbee or other big seed companies get involved with breeding Cannabis, to me it means we have won the war on Cannabis. Not to mention what great Cannabis they might create for all. No one can stop you from collecting Cannabis seeds and making your own varieties, wise up, the fear is not real.
"Also, if we want to argue that a hybrid someone did with Skunk#1 sells for $200, and Sam doesn't get any of it... well... why not give kickbacks of all your seed sales to the Afghani families you visited to get your genetics? Is it somehow different in that case, Sam? You know it's not, and you know this particular point of yours doesn't hold water when anyone spends more than 10 seconds thinking about it."
What a joke, how do you plan to split up the royalties to Afghan families that are mostly gone, dead, dispersed as well as the simple fact no one person or family created Afghan varieties, it involved thousands of growers over thousands of years. While Skunk #1 was created by me alone. Not a fair comparison at all. One is common property of all, the other is made by one man.
I am wondering if you eat plant protected veggies and fruit? Almost all grown in the USA and elsewhere is protected, don't you care? Why give your support to these varieties, why buy them, why eat them? If you buy them then won't the corporations will just get stronger and stronger and soon you will not even be able to breath without paying some corporation? I do not believe this at all. It is just fear-mongering.
Have you ever wondered why so few IBL or true breeding varieties are available by seed? It is because they are so easy to knock-off that no breeder worth much wants to release them because he knows they will be knocked-off. With plant protection breeders would have no fear of losing the results of years of work to knock-offs, and I predict that much better Cannabis would become available, in fact I know it is true.
-SamS
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theoldinout
Member
Damn. Crazy Composer made some sweet points, and I was thinking "Damn, Sam, you've just been Composer-owned!!"
But then Sam comes back and is all like "Composer, look at these points, bitch! I'll get inside your face!"
This is great back and forth action.
I'm on the fence, my nuts are split. I love a good debate.
PS: My $0.02: Shit is expensive nowadays. Money comes in, it goes out, I barely have time to count it. But I am so happy I get to smoke weed that I've grown.
But then Sam comes back and is all like "Composer, look at these points, bitch! I'll get inside your face!"
This is great back and forth action.
I'm on the fence, my nuts are split. I love a good debate.
PS: My $0.02: Shit is expensive nowadays. Money comes in, it goes out, I barely have time to count it. But I am so happy I get to smoke weed that I've grown.
Cannabis is under the control of greedy corporations? WTF??
Do you dive a car? Use gasoline? Or buy clothing from a store? If so you are supporting greedy corporations, bad you.
-SamS
Do you dive a car? Use gasoline? Or buy clothing from a store? If so you are supporting greedy corporations, bad you.
-SamS
bcdk420
Member
Sam_Skunkman said:
im just saying keeping genetics away from people is stealing from them.. u didnt make the genes u just discovered them.. u did good work sam no doubt.. but im sure it will pay off.. but making patents and such would be greedy..
in my world its the cooperations keeping cannabis illegal, so why should i respect their ways??
and sam cars clothes and gasoline?? please im not american sorry those things means nothing to me.. it would if i lived in youre part of the world but i dont
