If I were a seed company

[luciano28]

I just think if and when the actual federal government legalizes marijuana its not gonna be what everyone is cracking it up to be. The government will fuck it up in some way. I gotta believe they would be banning growing for like hobby growing. If it ever gets close to be legalized at the federal level, you better believe the greedy ass politicians and tobacco lobbies are gonna be coming out of the woodwork looking to make a buck off cornering the market. The market would be huge, how many new smokers would there be? A lot of people smoke herb as it is. We arent a small country like Holland, legalizing will mean billions of dollars of money to made. The US government are assholes but they arent dumb, they are gonna be in on growing it, packaging it, etc. probably through the tobacco companies. To get the votes to pass the law they are gonna need to compromise, the bible-thumpers will want regulation.

In a perfect world they would just say "hey, its legalized, everyone can grow 6 female plants in there house and continue to buy dutch and Canadian genetics off the interwebz, have fun stoners". I doubt it will work that way. They are gonna make a buck off it, which will mean all sorts of oversight, bureaucracy, etc.

But hey Sam, I dont know how old you are but if you are alive and well still if it gets legalized, you might have tobacco companies or agriculture firms beating down your door to be their top breeder.

I dont fear taxed and regulated marijuana, I fear the people that will tax and regulate it, the United States Congressman and Senators. I fear they will set back or maybe even destroy the great work that you, Sam, are a pioneer of by regulating it and controlling seeds like tobacco.

Sam, you must feel some bitterness over the way people have took your lines and made a ton of money off them. You should be paid royalties in a perfect world but you did it the right way man and you got to admit the modern hybridization of pot has come along way since Skunk#1 and the cannabis community owes a lot of that to you and a few others. Releasing the genetics you found on your travels like you did has made you a legend or at least I think you will be remembered that way 100 years from now. Id hate to see the great work that has become of it over the years get destroyed.

But I definitely agree, the laws gotta be changed, we can worry about the scenarios of it after the laws get passed. Maybe Im just paranoid but I just dont trust the government and companies who will sell it to care more about the genetics and preserving them like the underground cannabis community has than the money to be made off it.

 

[Crazy Composer]

It CAN be better, and certain protections for breeders would be necessary, but corporate hands involved in cannabis is scary to me. I live with as little corporate involvement as possible. My family lives in a sparsely-populated mountain region, in a small cabin (cheap to heat), buy our food from local farmers, farmer's markets, organic meats, milk, handmade yogurt, jellies, icecream, etc. We trade smoke for mechanical, electrical and carpentry services. We have NO credit cards, we have NO mortgage, NO car payments, everything is done outside of the corporate realm PURPOSELY. Therefore, to hear about corporate protection for cannabis breeders DOES scare me.

As for the history of any given genetic... Although it can't be proven that Hassan the hash breeder worked his father's father's father's lines just before Sam got ahold of them, it seems pretty obvious that there was MUCH love and work put into the genetics long before any westerners got to the area. Wild cannabis, found in areas away from human attention, is very hempy for the most part. It's only ever impressive in the least when it's found in ancient agricultural regions, where it was obviously worked on for a long time to get it away from it's hempy ancestry.

How to pay the people who worked on the genetics before we got them out fo the land??? You don't... they worked these lines, and now we work them.

If you take a Skunk #1 and cross it to a piney Afghani, and the pine is dominant in the cross, you now have something completely different from the original Sk#1, a whole new direction is found. If we limit breeding via trademarks, patents and copyrights, all these breedings will have to remain secret, and the proliferation of new cannabis varieties will slow down to a mere crawl. Will it not? Or do we think that copyrighting cannabis will be good for the community somehow? Perhaps it will, in some manner, but the freedom to breed as we please and share the results openly (within the established cannabis circles) will likely go away, ironically.

I really do understand why Sam thinks the way he does, there are some definite benefits to regulation, but I believe whole-heartedly that copyrighting cannabis names to prevent others from working with the genetics is NOT going to benefit anyone but the copyright holders.

 

[Crazy Composer]

BTW, certain famous cannabis names have already been copyrighted by major tobacco companies. northern Lights is one of them, and I think Skunk was also copyrighted. I saw this somewhere not long ago. Maybe someone else here can find the details.

 

[grapepunched]

IMO any person who copyrights any name for a cannabis plant is a money-grubbing joker... Cannabis should continue to be free, and I like the direction we've been heading in disclosing the full lineage of strains in order to help the common man to understand how breeding works and to encourage other growers to explore their genetic gene pools... It also just goes to show that with enough work, any line of plants can be rewarding and that a GEM is always hiding in the rough...
Also, it sure would be hard to sue someone over copyright infringement when our hobby is illegal in 90% of the world.

-gp

 

[PGW]

For what it's worth, I'll give my two cents here.....As far as the legalization or not question, just ask someone who's done prison time for growing or selling. I bet they would have LOVED to just have some bureaucracy to deal with, instead of prison time.

In the end, we have to understand that all this comes down to one small step at a time. Get it at least decriminalized, then slowly work out the kinks from there. At this point, discussing the myriad of possible problems and scenarios is truly infinite. We have to get to step one before we can go to step two.

Right now, as cannabis consumers our voices are ignored by law-makers because of the illegality of cannabis in most areas. However, if we get to the point of decriminalization, at least we can begin to voice our opinions in the law-making process. It's a heavily-flawed process for sure, but it's the same one they use to throw us in jail, so it's our only real avenue to avert prosecution/persecution.

 

[almostoverit]

if I were a seed breeder---I would like to think I would hold to the ethics that should be present in cannabis-and like sam and others have mentioned are present(even if forcibly so) in other areas of agriculture-if you're going to be a business why not look at it as agriculture and not "just a weed" or "some pot"...I would like to think If I was working with any hybrid I would have permission to do so-Or I would move on to other genetics-where permission couldn't be granted-but a hybrid fit perfectly in the breeding scenario-I would stress paying homage to said hybrid in both the name of the new strain and also the description---I would not use anything I picked up as a clone only- unless gifted by someone extrememly knowledgable and that clone was selected to be a breeder---any other scenario would leave to much guessing to be done i the future work---I would make it a point to use true P1 stock, and to either track down elite P1 clone's or plenty of beans to make a selection-those doing breeding projects based on a small number of beans should not have their work released...i also would like to make it a point not to release untested work, as well as not released strains that are not stable, both in the sense of a limited number of phenos with several of them being keepers, but also in the sense that I would like my beans to breed true.
All that said-I realize I could never be a "seed company"(sad so many willing to call themselves that now-a-days when you think about it)-I don't have the time or the space to select keepers from 500-1000 beans minimum---I don't have the time money or connections to get True P1 stock, sure anything can be "looked at" or "used" as p1-but I mean true P1, and on top of that I have only a basic knowledge of breeding and genetics-all though at times I feel like I got more than some of the hacks sellings beans as "companies" LOL,(much respect to those who do things right though of course)...So all that said I won't be more than a closet breeder-and closet breeder works aren't intended to flood the community IMO-they are meant for personal use and to be shared with friends. Not to say if my closet brings me something special I won't share it with more than just my close friends-but it will be shared as something coming from a closet breeder not a "company" and will openly be given as something Not to be worked with...


Sam, if you're still reading this, LOL-how do you feel about people working with your Skunk1? Do you take issue with those who have based work on it and given respect to your work in the name of th strain? Or do you mainly take issue with those that crossed the skunk to it's self only to offer Skunk1 again?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

How to pay the people who worked on the genetics before we got them out fo the land??? You don't... they worked these lines, and now we work them.

Hello Crazy Composer,

I think we all agree to that point, even Sam; however, the point is that no one really has the right to take a hybrid/polyhybrid strain and name it after a hyped strain in order to make a quick buck; not only is mis-labelling happening, but also people using hybrids like Skunk No1 to make their own seeds to later sell them at higher prices than even the very Skunk No1 seeds that were used to make the new seeds. this is not right in any way we look at it and in no way does it help mantain cannabis free.

Regarding the Corporate issue; imo neither corporations nor pissy rose-breeders anyway, can hold back plant genetics, today we can all plant whatever strain we want even if it is protected by trademarks and what-not, the ONLY thing the law is keeping you from doing is Selling them as your own work and making a profit that rightfully does not belong to you; but we can all grow and even reproduce those strains, no law can hold you back, just look at us, not even cannabis can be held back with all them evil laws.

Paz

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

almostoverit,
I do get upset about people who knock-off the names and genetics of my varieties, it was my work, hell some of them may have got the Skunk #1 for free from me then made and SOLD knock-offs, WTF?
If someone uses Skunk #1 to make a new hybrid then at least they did some new work, but in many countries royalties need to be paid to breeders for using their work to make half of a new variety of whatever. To me that is what is the best. Regardless of what happens to breeders rights, I hope Cannabis is legalized as soon as possible I don't want to see another human being in jail for growing or smoking Cannabis anywhere, enough is enough.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Also about the trademarks being registered by tobacco companies, I have heard this for years and I do not believe it. I know Sinsi Seeds registered a bunch of trademark names for Cannabis years ago, but I talked to them about my names I made up that they registered and they promised not to try and enforce anything on my names, I reminded them that I can prove I made them up, and Ben is an old friend and can be a reasonable guy.

-SamS

 

[420247]

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/search/basic?fd=0&q=marijuana+confidential&Submit=Submit+Query

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Trademarking_street_names_of_marijuana

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

420247,
I looked but there is way to much info to find what you wanted me to see. Try a link in info how to find what you thought was relevant, or better a cut and paste with the info.

-SamS

 

[charlie garcia]

Whatever tobacco companies or other do, we need and want freedom to grow and freedom to smoke. Only way to care of genepool and cannabis diversity, but now and then we cant ask others to do something for us and maybe is us who should do something for cannabis genepool.

About F2, from those 10 original breeder seeds people can make tons and tons of weed and F2 seeds for years and years to fill the surface of the moon and even donate them if they dont like present system.

About lines to work, there are houndres to work with for a person during several lifes.

Best

 

[420247]

420247,
I looked but there is way to much info to find what you wanted me to see. Try a link in info how to find what you thought was relevant, or better a cut and paste with the info.

-SamS

Sorry LOL

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/dyo97e00/pdf

Under the law, no trademarks
can be registered for
marijuana cigarettes.- If' future
legislation recognizes
the drug as salable, probably
registrations can be grantedd
for cigarettes made of marijuanai
Like all other marksj, those
for tobacco must first be used
in commerce to be eligible
for registrationi Cigarette
labeling must also meet the
tobacco tax regulations of
the Treasury Department .
Wrappers or other specimens
are required with trademark
applications

 

[Dalaihempy]

Breeders do not offer true breeding varieties because they do not want others knocking them off. I thought I was doing people a favor to offer true breeding varieties, but that did make them real easy to knock off, and they were knocked off, to say the least.
The story about a collective is made up lies. I did all the work.

-SamS

Hi sam i know that theft is a problem that needs to be addressed in this community and we see it even with hybrids that are far from stable i don't know what the answer is to the problem but as grower i would love nothing more than to see pure or stable lines offered that i could grow and injoy my self.

To be honest to paten an old land race or stable line collected 20 or 30 years ago would be hard because others would of also collected the same seed be it from a pound of imported mj or from there travels to so it would be impossible to paten something others also collected and possibly before hand.

The only thing i can think off that could be done to protect breeders and there work is for you all to form a union type thing and for you to rejuster your work and so on and to use your collective powers to protect your work like if a seed seller offers strains that are offered by a knock off you all could put a ban on suppling them seed basically no seed means no sales no sales means no customers.

If say some one wanted to use your line in a hybrid they then would offer to market could pay the breeder a set price (royalties) for the use of that plant in a hybrid that the union could in force theres a large difference in a grower making seed for self and friends and a grower just making seed for market and $ as i see it.

Its just sad that no old pure or stable lines are not offered and all we really have on offer is hybrids a lot i must admit are very very good but even in the fruits and veggies world theres groups like the seed savers that offer for sale old fruits and veggie seed at a price that have been collected from travels or by people from all over the world and the money is then used for preservation and for more collection trips so if they can do it maybe we can to as a community.

Fruits n veggies seed from old harloom seed stock no modern hybrids.

Any way nice to see you posting again sam.

 

[Cuzin_Dave]

Breeding even ONE good line takes years and years of work with no guarantee of success. It is so much easier to get a good female clone and cross it with a male and seell the seeds. Breeding an excellent line and preserving the genetic diversity within the line probably takes a lifetime.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The only thing i can think off that could be done to protect breeders and there work is for you all to form a union type thing and for you to rejuster your work and so on and to use your collective powers to protect your work like if a seed seller offers strains that are offered by a knock off you all could put a ban on suppling them seed basically no seed means no sales no sales means no customers.

If say some one wanted to use your line in a hybrid they then would offer to market could pay the breeder a set price (royalties) for the use of that plant in a hybrid that the union could in force theres a large difference in a grower making seed for self and friends and a grower just making seed for market and $ as i see it.

Or work to make Cannabis legal then normal plant protection laws would protect anyone that wanted to protect their work.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

420247,
This is not surprising at all.
Thanks for the post.
-SamS

 

[BENJI]

In the end all this thread comes down to is MONEY one way or another depending on which way you look at it and if u ask me its just fucked up weather its leagal or illeagal there is always going to be someone making MONEY off it PERIOD...I agree with sam and crazycomposer and a few others on most of their points but i think cannabis should be leagal 100% world wide 4 medical use, i think we are forgetting bout the positive things marijuana can do 4 us from a medical point of view not just a smokers or breeders point of view.

 

[BENJI]

leagalise=government=politics=money=corruption=chaos
i think it should be leagalised for medical use first but like i said it comes down to MONEY MONEY MONEY wasnt the whole point of this thread about money and the price of seeds? Correct me if im wrong..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

illegal=police=prison=personal chaos

We know what illegal Cannabis does, it arrests over 800,000 people a year in just the USA for pot.
Enough is enough, don't let the fear of legal weed prevent change.

-SamS