If I were a seed company

[Sam_Skunkman]

Males produced from transformed female clones only produce female seeds but you can turn a female to male and sidestep any so called protection. But they will not produce any male seeds just females again. Then again if the female transformed has inter-sexed genes for hermi male flowers the seeds produced will still have the ability to make all female crops some with hermi male flowers.

Don't worry charlie garcia the amount of Cannabis seeds produced annually is millions of tons, the western seed market is less then one ton, way less. I am not so sure the effect of all fem seeds has any effect at all. There are countries that only grow and sell seeded Cannabis in huge amounts and up to half the weight is seeds.

-SamS

A female clone can be vigorously tested for inter-sexed genes by putting it in any and all stressful conditions that can cause a plant to express any male flowers, if it does it is not a True Female and I would advise to not use them for breeding or seed making. I would still use them to make further generations in an effort to clean up the variety and find individuals that do not have inter-sexed genes in them.

 

[DocLeaf]

cool info. many thanks

 

[charlie garcia]

I know Sam, thx for clearing up anyway, I was referring better to new young ppl trying to make their own seeds from commercial hybrids with only females and not sts available they will always have to buy and buy more seeds. I know for many just females is the best as medical users and ppl who dont want to deal with sex issues but just grow females to smoke. I prefer not to think too far on this anyway... feels dizzy

 

[houndog]

It's really great when "those that have done it" share their knowledge. Thanks Sam.

 

[Londinium]

...I would sell these strains very cheap indeed...

 

[ElectroSticky]

i notice the celulose paper .. BIG UP! for LONDINIUM ..

 

[Londinium]

Ta! Yeah I like to keep a 'clear head' LOL

 

[almostoverit]

"SamS

A female clone can be vigorously tested for inter-sexed genes by putting it in any and all stressful conditions that can cause a plant to express any male flowers, if it does it is not a True Female and I would advise to not use them for breeding or seed making. I would still use them to make further generations in an effort to clean up the variety and find individuals that do not have inter-sexed genes in them.[/QUOTE]


should be common sense maybe, but first time I realized this---A "TRUE" female will not hermie under any stress, nutrient or enviornmental? ---so, don't use them for main seed stock, but it is ok to use them to select an individual from them that des not hermie---so they can still create a "TRUE" female? Hope I got that right?

and damnit everytime I read back in this thread and hit the part about the golden NL that came from the freebie pack...kinda hurts...man I miss the hell outta tha old time NL...Anothe one that just isn't the same anymore

 

[blackone]

should be common sense maybe, but first time I realized this---A "TRUE" female will not hermie under any stress, nutrient or enviornmental? ---so, don't use them for main seed stock, but it is ok to use them to select an individual from them that des not hermie---so they can still create a "TRUE" female? Hope I got that right?

and damnit everytime I read back in this thread and hit the part about the golden NL that came from the freebie pack...kinda hurts...man I miss the hell outta tha old time NL...Anothe one that just isn't the same anymore

The offspring of a plant with intersex traits might still have recessive genes, even if they're not expressed. But of course this is also the case if you find a non-herm pheno in a batch of seeds where some phenos are herms - they're most likely sisters.

Progeny testing is probably the only way to really assure yourself that there is no intersex trait in the genepool.
Don't forget that the intersex trait might as well come from the male... If any of a males sisters are herms then chances are that male will also carry the trait onto female offspring.

Decide for yourself how much work you want to put into this - if you're breeding for yourself and are happy to go pheno hunting followed by grows from clone then go ahead. If you want to distribute then take your time and breed those hermy genes out in a systematic fashion. If I were to attempt creating or breeding a strain then I would go for strain(s) where whole batches of seeds have been herm free.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

If the inter-sexed genes are recessive, then your best hope is the stressing (in the hope the stress causes the recessive genes to express) of them with light hours, heat, cold, nutrients, etc, I find that photoperiod manipulation works best. If they are just recessive and maybe need a similar gene from the male parent to express the trait, so they have to two sets of the same recessive gene to be expressed (with or without stress), then it will be harder to find the inter-sexed recessive females without progeny testing them on a large scale.
I suspect that much Cannabis has inter-sexed genes, maybe recessive would explain why they don't often show problems without stress.

Photoperiod disorders. Down-Up-Down the hours of light.
Phoperiod shock from 20 hours light to 10.
Lumins disorders, too high or too low of lumins.
Too Hot or Cold.
Too Wet or Dry, air or soil.
Nutrients out of wack, to much or to little.
Pruning shock, plant or roots.
Transplant shock.
Insect shock.
Disease shock.

 

[almostoverit]

If the inter-sexed genes are recessive, then your best hope is the stressing (in the hope the stress causes the recessive genes to express) of them with light hours, heat, cold, nutrients, etc, I find that photoperiod manipulation works best. If they are just recessive and maybe need a similar gene from the male parent to express the trait, so they have to two sets of the same recessive gene to be expressed (with or without stress), then it will be harder to find the inter-sexed recessive females without progeny testing them on a large scale.
I suspect that much Cannabis has inter-sexed genes, maybe recessive would explain why they don't often show problems without stress.

Photoperiod disorders. Down-Up-Down the hours of light.
Phoperiod shock from 20 hours light to 10.
Lumins disorders, too high or too low of lumins.
Too Hot or Cold.
Too Wet or Dry, air or soil.
Nutrients out of wack, to much or to little.
Pruning shock, plant or roots.
Transplant shock.
Insect shock.

Blackone-" If any of a males sisters are herms then chances are that male will also carry the trait onto female offspring."


thank you both for that, into the archives it goes

 

[stoopid]

While I agree that it is unfair for motivated opportunists, (cannot be called lazy breeders as they aren't breeders), to reap the benefits of breeders, it is part of life, which is also unfair.

While I agree that plants, however much they have been bred by any person, ultimately belong to the planet as we do, this shouldn't be an excuse for people to be claiming other's work as their own. Credit should be given where due.

WHAT CAN BE DONE?

Despite being illegal, if you could get some sort of protection for breeders, a blackmarket would exist. Like cheap DVDs in China...

I guess what I am trying to say is, instead of fearing ripoff breeders, embrace them as the vultures of the cannabis industry. They are there and always will be. Instead of investing time trying to combat this problem, should we not address it and grow out of it. As in any industry, people get what they pay for. If people aren't willing to pay the breeder a fair price for his work, then they shouldn't recieve it. Simple as that. It is ultimately the consumer's responsibility to make a wise choice when purchasing seeds.

The only unjustice I see in this whole situation is the MJ patients who can't afford their medicine. This is another ball game though, because of the nature of the business, a profitable company hasn't got any choice but to charge high prices for quality seeds. Personally, I don't think the price is an issue. The issue is that many of the people who NEED it, can't afford it. Instead of complaining about high prices, complain about availability to patients.


I believe that the answer lies not in the price of the seeds that are available, but in the quantity. If respected breeders began selling seeds individually, at slightly higher prices than 10 packs, I believe just about anybody who NEEDS the medicine can get it, and whoever doesn't WANT it won't pay for it. NEED AND WANT, DRIVE OUR ECONOMY. FEED THE NEED.

 

[Chamba]

I just read the first page, wrote a few comments and then read a few more pages and realized I was just repeating what was already written ...eg 50 seeds per packet, lower prices, it aint that hard to seed a clone and reap 2000 viable seeds......(thank goodness for the editing feature!)

but here's one comment that I feel I need to post about

".....One good seed can produce a mother that can be cloned a billion times. Or... The one pack of ten seeds yields 5 females, each yielding 2 ounces of kind herb... equaling 10 ounces. Now, at a mean street price of about $350(us) per ounce of kind, we end up with $3500. NO TEN PACK IS TOO EXPENSIVE....."

I couldn't disagree more..........thinking like that is like saying it takes 100 gallons of gas to win a race with a prize of a hundred thousand dollars, so this gas is worth a thousand per gallon.

I wish hybrid seed makers (the 99% of them who cross a selection from a seed packet with a selection from a seed packet) would start thinking volume sales, not short term thinking of the current incredibly high prices per seed..then perhaps a few hundred thousand more maybe growers would take the plunge and send $5, $10 or $15 to seedboutique and start growing..it might just change the world

btw it's not the seed maker that takes risk..(Rico? ..give me a break!...it's time consuming selecting dark seeds from the husks!..lol...)..it's the company that sells the packs that does..........I agree with SamS...seeds are easy to produce, in a perfect world a real wholesale price should be $0.25 ~ $0.50 per seed

 

[Chamba]

You really think there should be no rule against giving hash to a 5 year old?
How about a rule against vending adulterated cannabis?
It is kind of naive to suggest anarchy, imho... or to imply that legalization is tantamount to absolute control...

it might come as a shock to many Americans now, but there are lots of countries in Asia that have machines that vend beer.....5 years can and do go to the local convenience store to buy cigs or a bottles of booze......not every country lives by excess and a lack of control as their motto, they have societies that resemble the US 50 years ago where kids are brought up in with limitations and those in that society helped maintain that status quo of decent behavoir..I'm sure there are small towns in the US today that live that decent way.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

So you DO NOT think there should be a law against vending adulterated cannabis. Brilliant.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

".....One good seed can produce a mother that can be cloned a billion times. Or... The one pack of ten seeds yields 5 females, each yielding 2 ounces of kind herb... equaling 10 ounces. Now, at a mean street price of about $350(us) per ounce of kind, we end up with $3500. NO TEN PACK IS TOO EXPENSIVE....."

I couldn't disagree more..........thinking like that is like saying it takes 100 gallons of gas to win a race with a prize of a hundred thousand dollars, so this gas is worth a thousand per gallon.

More like Buying one gallon of Gas which will get you down the road FROM NOW ON.

 

[Chamba]

SamS and Skunk...anyway, it's all a mute point now about if cannabis was legal and if you Patented Skunk....cos if you did, the Patent would of expired by now....and you would of had trouble with those who disregarded your Patent and used SK in their pollen chucking as up until recently there wasn't any way you could of proved it was your genes in those other strains anyway...but rest assured, when the history is written, your name will be highlighted as the pioneer of modern cannabis breeding....it's too bad you didn't carry on and produce strains like Skunk, Haze and others in the following decades, what happened?

anyway, in the short term, the money is not in Patented strains for recreational use as the horse has already bolted (iow the strains are already out there in public use....and that's if and when cannabis becomes legal again, I for one ain't holding my breath!)..

the big (future) money in the short term, as Sams knows, is in hybrids for medical use that can be Patented by Pharmacuetical co's

and one a side note.....Pharma will eventually get into selling THC, opiates, coca, meth and others natural and other manmade drugs again and re-package them into legal Patented "medicenes"....

in the coming years, probably not too far away, they will begin to blur the lines between medication and "lifestyle enhancement" with zonkers, uppers and spacers using recipes of those natural and recent manmade drugs..but don't yell yippie too fast, to maintain their profits, big Pharma will keep bribing the corrupt politicians to make sure that pot growers and smokers are even more heavily persecuted to maintain their profits

btw the deaths from legally prescribed drugs world wide is in the hundreds of thousands per year........Heath Ledger was just one of them......now the fact that silence of those figures is corruption at it's best for for you!.,,and you'all think they are gonna legalize pot?......

 

[Chamba]

"More like Buying one gallon of Gas which will get you down the road FROM NOW ON"

the sooner seed makers stop thinking "clone", hype and exessive profits for hybrid crosses and start thinking stain uniformity at reasonable prices, the sooner we growers will be happier and the more professional you will be regarded.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

"More like Buying one gallon of Gas which will get you down the road FROM NOW ON"

the sooner seed makers stop thinking "clone", hype and exessive profits for hybrid crosses and start thinking stain uniformity at reasonable prices, the sooner we growers will be happier and the more professional you will be regarded.

LOL...

My post had nothing at all to do with hype or excessive profits...
Get a clue, bro...

For example, Casey Jones... $80. for 12+ seeds (means I see less than $3./seed, and that's only if you don't count the hundreds I've given away)... Every grow report I've seen is indicative of the quality and uniformity... Most growers I've seen find a keeper from less than 1/2 of a pack, and by keeper I mean CUP WINNING QUALITY...

I've never heard from an unhappy or dissatisfied customer, and I could care less if any of you regard me as 'professional' or not.

 

[Chamba]

"So you DO NOT think there should be a law against vending adulterated cannabis. Brilliant."

I didn't say that...

but anyway,. I'll play your game and answer you question......not in Australia, Britain, the USA and other Western countries that have lost the plot..an emphatic NO!

take look at the Netherlands.....do you see 15 year old Dutch kids lying down in the street shit faced on Nepalese Temple Balls?...no....ever wonder why?

go back in a time machine to any city in the USA in the 30's, 40's, 50's and would you see the same thing? probably not in many cases, sentiment in that society, not the police would not of allowed it to happen.......the problem is most Western societies have gone from a shame based system to an enforcement based society.....much to their loss