Ice-tube cloner from WallyWorld

[dr-dank]

Are you changing the water? I use rain water that's bubbled, so it's slightly acidic with a lot of dissolved oxygen.

I also change out the trays the molds sit in, especially if they get any slimy feeling. I used to use a dome, but when I stopped, my strike percentage went way up. I guess it depends if you grow in a really dry place, but I don't think they are necessary.

I used to change water every few days. Since this issue started I change daily. I did bubble the water, but recently stopped as I pre-mix nutes and the bubble stone went there. That is one reason I was adding the h202.....

I live in desert. I try to use dome for first 48 hours or so and then remove. I mist for first 24hr, about 2 x.

This gets them past the wilt, but sometime they wilt later on around the time of the smell.


As an update:

1. I got a strike in original chamber in a citrus sap. Lost a cookies, and the two remaining cookies have yet to root. This after ~ 16 days.

2. The new batch in new media and back to tube trays rather than Popsicle molds, with no h202, and temperature monitoring in the new chamber are starting to show signs of the leaf burn.

I think it might be the heating mat. Have added insulation along the side so leaves cannot make any contact and are shielded, and also Styrofoam under reservoir so the water is not directly on the mat.

I also changed out the led for small daylight spectrum CFL, to which I added a shield on the bottom to block direct light. This was to remove chance that led is toxic ( I know, but most do clone under flouro) and also to get some more heat...

Oddly, the biggest issue in new chamber, aside from leaf crisping and lack of roots, is keeping it warm. At night I open up and cool down the house with a fan. Got to 70 F in the chamber last night even with the heat mat running.

Makes me consider the design mentioned where bulbs are below and plants up top to get the convection and only reflected light. In this design heat from bulb does not reach down to help warm plants much....

Thanks for the feedback all.

Regards

 

[dr-dank]

Update. See infirmary thread. The batch taken on 8/12 have taken a bad turn.

Something is toxic in the new chamber. Problems started before switch to CFL and adding insulation. Will try one more low-pri batch of cuttings with the insulation from heat mat before ditching it.

I just don't get the leaves drying up. No rotten smell lately.


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7593176#post7593176

 

[Big CLones]

You still might consider the design in post 933....

That design works perfectly for me....

 

[Big CLones]

One thing thats possible ....as far as the drying leaves..... could it be the heat mad is drying the air out in your chamber????

At 7 days your clones should look as fresh as a daisy.....

When I first started using this method.... like bozo..... I had a shelf for veg....then over the lights my cloners lived.... they sat on the shelf the floro lights kept warm over the veg shelf....... very similar to his set up......

 

[dr-dank]

One thing thats possible ....as far as the drying leaves..... could it be the heat mad is drying the air out in your chamber????

At 7 days your clones should look as fresh as a daisy.....

When I first started using this method.... like bozo..... I had a shelf for veg....then over the lights my cloners lived.... they sat on the shelf the floro lights kept warm over the veg shelf....... very similar to his set up......

I suppose, but it is for seedlings and does not seem different than other heat sources like a bulb, above or below. Heat is heat. I was concerned that leaves might touch, and have addressed, but too late for these.

Seems if low humidity they would wilt, not crisp.

I am considering a redesign. I have one more batch of low pri cuts to try and test the changes made when the others had already started showing issues.

Regards

 

[dr-dank]

You still might consider the design in post 933....

That design works perfectly for me....

questions:

1. I take it the plants sit inside the bucket with their rez. Are you showing two types of humidity domes, in the form of a Popsicle mold that permits more air and the other a plastic bag?

2. what is the light source? Overhead CFL or such? How far away and what wattage?

Thanks

 

[Big CLones]

In my normal set up..... I use the popsicle molt inside the ice bin ..... the ice bin is the res...

In the setup for winter for better temp control....I use a 2 gallon bucket for the res.... the popsicle mold sits on the opening cut in the lid.... the bucket itself is the res.....

The popsicle mold should sit in about one inch of water.....same as before..... the heater must also be in water......

The advantage to the winter set up..... great temp control.....and plently of humidity....

I generally use the plastic bag for the first 2 days or so.....

In my case the bucket sits in my veg room...... where the lights are on 24 7..... but other light sources .....including dedicated lighting should work fine...... like cfl.... or floro......

 

[dr-dank]

@ bigclones. I see. Thanks for the details.

One last question. Seems like a lot of water. Nearly 2G. Good for thermal mass, and humidity. Any worries about it going off from being at 80 degrees over several days?

Thanks

 

[Big CLones]

https://www.amazon.com/Elite-6-Inch-Thermostatic-Heater-25-Watt/dp/B0002AQF84

The beauty of using the aquarium heater is it will keep temps within a couple degrees at most.....

The heater is made for up to 5 gallons.....

 

[dr-dank]

I updated my thread in infirmary. The 2g bucket with fish heater did not work. Same burning/crisping after 3 days, and the bucket smelled like a fish tank. I did run an airline into bucket to bubble, figuring could not hurt.....

I wonder if this might be off gassing?

The new chamber just does not work. Quite surprised as low light and moderate temps are all that should be needed.

Regards

 

[HorseBadoritiz]

I saw the old white ice tubes back at walmart... 4 beans!

 

[Big CLones]

Dr dank.... Im stumped..... however I still suspect that there is something in your environment which is the problem...

How about water quality..... try putting some clones in plain water and see how they react...

I did a search and find that what you are seeing looks quite a bit like the effects on a plant when soft water is used.....

 

[Big CLones]

Here is what I would try if I were you....

I would go to the store and buy a gallon of ro water....

I would also buy some perlite......

If you have to smash it down a bit ....not to a powder but not big hunks...


I presume you are using a rooting product....

Use some of a few clones and none on some others...


You have proven its probably not the device.....since you have used more than one and the problem is the same...


There imo are 3 things you can look at....


the water..... the medium and an rooting hormone....

This thread has been here for years..... and this is the first time this sort of thing has come up....

I would look carefully at the 3 variables for the answer...

water medium..... rooting hormone

You have to isolate your real problem....

 

[dr-dank]

Thanks big. I agree, the method works, and has been for me for several years. These issues are somewhat recent. So, what changed?

The new clone chamber seems a problem, that is for sure. As noted I am having some luck in the original, which is two rubber made tubs stacked up. The main difference is the plexi shield vs open air between the two.

I use RO water, and did change filters/sanitize tank less than year ago. I drink the water, and test its ph/tds. Seems OK, but, it is the one thing that has been common to all my attempts. It ph 6.4 at 25 ppm @ .5 scale.
At one point I did try a 50/50% mix of RO and outside tap to add some chlorine. No big change so went back to pure RO.

I got new vermiculite. I have not tried perlite.

I have used both dip n grow at 10% as well as clonex. Got a new jar of the later and that is what I have used last several times. I dip, stir, and then put into medium. IOW, I am not letting them soak in the clonex.

And to be clear, the new chamber is not working, at all. In something like 6 attempts I have had maybe one root. The same water, media, and clone solution is used in both, and I certainly have better luck in the original chamber. Still takes 14+ days and only ~ 75% success, which combined with crowding, is what made me decide to create the new chamber. I felt in summer the original veg chamber was running too warm, and too much light (I do add a cardboard shield above the clones), leading to the rotten media and poor strike rates. The original chamber shares a closet with my flower space and so even though run lights at night it can get warm. Sometimes 85F.

It just racks my brain as to why the stunning fails in new chamber. After only 4 days they start crisping up, then either wilt or just proceed to die. Have not noticed bad smell in media lately.

I am stuck on off gassing or radiation from proximity to bulb, but as noted I have low wattage LED that I shielded in latest attempt, so that in theory only reflected light. Given temps were in a reasonable range I just don't get why so bad... The shield is a Tupperware container with some holes and then Mylar/duct tape on the top/sides so that no direct light hits the plants. I added some vent holes above the light to give the heat a place to go given I had the fish heater in the bucket.

The real laugh here is how complex the new system got. So many wires and probes, fans, pumps..and still it fails miserably. In my mind I just needed low light and a place that was not too hot or too cold where they could hang for 10-14 days.

Thanks for letting me vent, so to speak.

Regards

edit to add a pic of the latest incarnation of this infernal machine for killing plants. Also, the best 3 of the last 6 cutting I took on 8/29. I moved these into original chamber on 9/1. Appears too late and these will not recover. The other 3 were all worse and removed to avoid rot. I do find it interesting that all 3 on one side were worse. Given they were in water bucket lid they did not move once put in chamber.... Normally I change water each day and there is some random rotation of the container relative to the chamber. I cannot recall now if the worse ones were closer to center, and therefore the light.

The thermometers are shielded from direct light. They show average of 78 or so, with peak around 82 and low of 74. They are places about bucket lid level so cuttings were a few inches higher and closer to light. Still, its only a single low wattage led and its dimmed, and its shielded with heat vents above so I did not thing things were change much a few inches up.

 

[Big CLones]

The thing that really gets me..... is that your plants are bitching after only a few days....

I cant say you arent trying or trying to find the thing your plants really dont like....

But there is something..... at 4 days your plants should look just like when you cut them...

I would still be interested in seeing how that your cuts react to them just being in some of your water.....

Like you say water is the common variable in all the attempts....

Its my strongest suspicion... Try some clones just water....no hormone no medium.....

Im sorry for your trouble....

 

[Big CLones]

YOu know I did these for a long time with nothing more than indirect lighting and bottom heat for the shelf....

The plants themself were in the open.... open air and they do well....

Try not using the chamber..... when I use the 2 gallon set up..... the 2 gallon bucket is stand alone...... the only addition is a plastic bag for a day or two.....

 

[dr-dank]

thanks @ big. I am getting ready for some more cuts (mothers are taking a beating), and was going to use original chamber. Getting a bit cool now and I worry that if I leave out in open with the house getting down to 63 it will be too cold.

When you suggest water only, does that mean no media, or just no clone gel?

The water, media, and clone gell/dip n grow are common, but I am having some success in original chamber, just not as high/fast as I wanted. That, and the rotten smell that I do believe was from too warm in summer.

I am tempted to try one cutting out in open under my desk lamp. Plain water, but with vermiculite media.

Back to my clone killer. Aside from selling the patent to Monsanto, I started thinking.... I did smell plastic, a lot. The design had the bulb close to lid, where it heated the plastic. I keep wanting to believe out gassing. But most pics I see are a yellowing, not crisping of leaves.

Will update when I have more.

Regards

 

[Big CLones]

I think you should try to 2 gallon bucket set up.....

Vermiculite for medium...

and your desk lamp.... in the open...

Set the heater to keep it at 80 degrees..... take temp with thermometer on the top of the cloner....

I suspect your chamber is a killer.....

 

[dr-dank]

At big. Thanks again for the engagement and encouragement.

OK, I will do as you suggest and document. While I like to bump this great thread I don't want to crap it up with my issues.... The method does work, and I assure I'm not trolling.

As it is cooling I like the idea of the bucket. Ditching the chamber makes sense for at least a test run.

I plan to use the same R0 water. I really don't think its the water as it grows plants all the way to chop once they have roots, and I can test it at 25 ppm (.5 scale) and PH 6.4, and I drink it all day.

Curious if you feel adding a fish bubbler is advisable? On one hand 02 is good, and seems like an arero cloner type hybrid, and I have it. OTH, its not a fish tank, the pump makes noise, and takes me away from the KISS aspects of the method.

Regards

 

[Big CLones]

Im as convinced as I can be....that your chamber is the chamber of death.....

You have tried all the other variables....... not much left....

I dont think the bubbler would do much...... the plants seem to get enough o2 from the air space in the vermiculite....