-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
I feel such a failure
- Thread starter f-e
- Start date
I struggle with samples. I can get soil done, but not compost or coco. However if coco dust is present during water sampling, they will include that in the analysis. I think I'm talking to the secretary not the white coat.
Thankfully I used to work with some white coats so have reached out and can get my water looked at. I have done so much to this grow it's no longer representative, but I'm thinking about weekly samples on the next run.
Right back to my first bloom here, it was mild. The coco was old though. New, but old. My fear of K has had me looking at coco from another angle. The canna site offers a good read, but basically aging coco gives lots of K. They age it till it's usable, then we get about a year window before it's looking like peat. The more it degrades the faster it degrades and K is the main outcome. So much so they advise never to leach the coco as you need the calcium and magnesium in there or the K just gets out of control. Leading to tip and edge burn like too much feed, but less feed just makes it worse. You need to suppress the K with cal.mag. I have been trying to increase various things to suppress something, but thought I had done cal/mag though know not to the heights of 200ppm or 300ppm which might be in the area. That's total guesswork though, canna give no values. Which was my search that took me to them.
It's actually weeks since I formulated my next feed schedule to be low K. I have been no added K before, but now I'm switching to a lower K feed and mixing it weak. I got it about a week ago. Intuition is leading me in the right direction I think, with this new found info supporting it.
I have a UV light on order that just dangles in your tank. Plus the RO filter that should remove most nasties of that nature. Addressing this area of my grow, though really it should be fine. Still my pipes are taking some thought though. Maybe bleach through it.
It's still hard to swallow that it's watering frequency, with just a limited number of people behind that idea. Likewise with K, as it's not my first rodeo. The timing though. Bacteria don't have watches. Root systems do seem to change though.
So many valid courses of action. For now, I'm having a sandwich
Thankfully I used to work with some white coats so have reached out and can get my water looked at. I have done so much to this grow it's no longer representative, but I'm thinking about weekly samples on the next run.
Right back to my first bloom here, it was mild. The coco was old though. New, but old. My fear of K has had me looking at coco from another angle. The canna site offers a good read, but basically aging coco gives lots of K. They age it till it's usable, then we get about a year window before it's looking like peat. The more it degrades the faster it degrades and K is the main outcome. So much so they advise never to leach the coco as you need the calcium and magnesium in there or the K just gets out of control. Leading to tip and edge burn like too much feed, but less feed just makes it worse. You need to suppress the K with cal.mag. I have been trying to increase various things to suppress something, but thought I had done cal/mag though know not to the heights of 200ppm or 300ppm which might be in the area. That's total guesswork though, canna give no values. Which was my search that took me to them.
It's actually weeks since I formulated my next feed schedule to be low K. I have been no added K before, but now I'm switching to a lower K feed and mixing it weak. I got it about a week ago. Intuition is leading me in the right direction I think, with this new found info supporting it.
I have a UV light on order that just dangles in your tank. Plus the RO filter that should remove most nasties of that nature. Addressing this area of my grow, though really it should be fine. Still my pipes are taking some thought though. Maybe bleach through it.
It's still hard to swallow that it's watering frequency, with just a limited number of people behind that idea. Likewise with K, as it's not my first rodeo. The timing though. Bacteria don't have watches. Root systems do seem to change though.
So many valid courses of action. For now, I'm having a sandwich
jackspratt61
Active member
Mail a dried,sifted sample to Spectrum analytics. Ask for k-3 test $72 The answer is there.
I'm not sure I could send it from the UK. It's going to be seen as a bio-hazard. If I were in the states I could probably chuck $500 at this and know the problem in days. I'm just sitting on my hands here.
I got a couple more pics, but for no real reason.
Bit more weight there over the week, but it's week 6. Here's another we were watching
Should be one big bud by now, and this one of the less effected strains.
Group shot
What strikes me the most, is the general health of them. They don't show any strong deficiency that says there is something missing. With no stereotypical over feed signs. Lights about 600ppfd. The plant front right has not been happy since seed. The rest shouldn't be judged by it. There really is nothing to point at and say categorically that it's wrong.
I'm sure, really sure, I have enough N. I could have less. It's said to reduce flowers, but I think as it effects K availability. These are not air-buds though. What there is is tight enough. Ks not lacking.
P tends to send petioles red and that came much later, and I actually have many green ones. Too much seems unlikely.
K has always bothered me. I think it burns hairs like this. It should burn tips and edges but not in this matter. Not by the book anyway.
calcium isn't really worth looking at for toxicity. It just locks out K and Mg mostly. Which isn't here to a great degree. No deficiency signs either.
Mg... I reckon it's my most worked on and I can call the result before making the change. It's not likely.
I can keep going, but I just circle back to K excess as the most likely nutrient problem. Unless it's in the small stuff, which I'm not so well versed in.
I'm going to make a tank of P Ca Mg and trace. I have enough N in the foliage and I suspect K in the coco. I may of loaded up the plant tissue beyond help to see anything in a day but they have a few left.
I got a couple more pics, but for no real reason.
Bit more weight there over the week, but it's week 6. Here's another we were watching
Should be one big bud by now, and this one of the less effected strains.
Group shot
What strikes me the most, is the general health of them. They don't show any strong deficiency that says there is something missing. With no stereotypical over feed signs. Lights about 600ppfd. The plant front right has not been happy since seed. The rest shouldn't be judged by it. There really is nothing to point at and say categorically that it's wrong.
I'm sure, really sure, I have enough N. I could have less. It's said to reduce flowers, but I think as it effects K availability. These are not air-buds though. What there is is tight enough. Ks not lacking.
P tends to send petioles red and that came much later, and I actually have many green ones. Too much seems unlikely.
K has always bothered me. I think it burns hairs like this. It should burn tips and edges but not in this matter. Not by the book anyway.
calcium isn't really worth looking at for toxicity. It just locks out K and Mg mostly. Which isn't here to a great degree. No deficiency signs either.
Mg... I reckon it's my most worked on and I can call the result before making the change. It's not likely.
I can keep going, but I just circle back to K excess as the most likely nutrient problem. Unless it's in the small stuff, which I'm not so well versed in.
I'm going to make a tank of P Ca Mg and trace. I have enough N in the foliage and I suspect K in the coco. I may of loaded up the plant tissue beyond help to see anything in a day but they have a few left.
planttechniques
Member
reusing coco is a terrible idea
coco has a greater CEC than almost any substance. When growing, the balancing act is between K, Na and Mg, Ca
as coco beaks down it releases K from it's cation sites, age, root growth breakage of the coco fibers, (chemical alteration) nutrient displacement, all contribute
I have enough trouble managing my 2x per-buffered new coco than even thinking about reusing coco
Worse than reusing Peat IMO
coco has a greater CEC than almost any substance. When growing, the balancing act is between K, Na and Mg, Ca
as coco beaks down it releases K from it's cation sites, age, root growth breakage of the coco fibers, (chemical alteration) nutrient displacement, all contribute
I have enough trouble managing my 2x per-buffered new coco than even thinking about reusing coco
Worse than reusing Peat IMO
The more I read, the more I wonder how I have ever grown in it. I have reused it dozens of times though, consecutively. Without issue until this location/build. Though it's not likely water as I have used two sources.
I was settled on my 50-70% dry being an issue, but see canna recommend 50-70% dry. The very numbers. There is little common knowledge between information sources. I find agreement and disagreement in everything I do. The only facts I'm sure of is that I want out. Which is kind of odd, after maybe 15 years in the stuff. I know my next build is flood/drain but I want to move first. So onward I go.
I didn't measure the calmag for today properly, but it was about 200ppm cal and 80mg. 40ppm P and trace. Tank of just 0.9 but runoff still 1.5 so I think the idea of displacement from the medium is all that stands true. I saw a thread elsewhere with very similar signs, which he fixed with an ec my meter will barely reach. There is a common story of suppressing the upset the coco causes, with heavy feeding to mask the imbalance. EC3.5 though, I don't know if I'm that desperate. It's coming out and I would like to smoke at least a bud for my troubles.
My heads boxed today, for various reasons beyond my control. I might not get back to this head fuck till mid week.
I was settled on my 50-70% dry being an issue, but see canna recommend 50-70% dry. The very numbers. There is little common knowledge between information sources. I find agreement and disagreement in everything I do. The only facts I'm sure of is that I want out. Which is kind of odd, after maybe 15 years in the stuff. I know my next build is flood/drain but I want to move first. So onward I go.
I didn't measure the calmag for today properly, but it was about 200ppm cal and 80mg. 40ppm P and trace. Tank of just 0.9 but runoff still 1.5 so I think the idea of displacement from the medium is all that stands true. I saw a thread elsewhere with very similar signs, which he fixed with an ec my meter will barely reach. There is a common story of suppressing the upset the coco causes, with heavy feeding to mask the imbalance. EC3.5 though, I don't know if I'm that desperate. It's coming out and I would like to smoke at least a bud for my troubles.
My heads boxed today, for various reasons beyond my control. I might not get back to this head fuck till mid week.
Okay, I have another favourable story.
I'm pushing these hard, and my coco is decaying. The coco is constantly giving off sodium and potassium. At a rate that increases as time goes by, like my problem. It's in bloom where they are taking on potassium the most, but will take sodium, perhaps preferentially, if available. I need to get the sodium and potassium out my coco. It holds on, resisting the flush, but can be displaced by things that hold on tighter. That's Calcium and Magnesium. As I see mag problems, it's also telling me space has been made available for Calcium, but also potassium and sodium. Calcium and Magnesium are things I can probably afford to increase without lockout issues, except for two. Sodium and Potassium displacement.
I think I should look at getting these two higher, while keeping a balanced nutrient mix. Any time they get low I allow the sodium and potassium to accumulate. I should also increase fertigation frequency as it can only be a good thing from an EC prospective, which is my foremost problem.
This relates to people running very high looking EC values to push the coco problem away. Canna make a point of the fact we like to go gentle and it can strip the buffering, which is basically the calmag. That this and deep flushing are not right for coco. We have to keep that buffer intact and pushing pants hard without the buffering levels in the feed needed will lead to this sodium and potassium problem. Having seen someone with very similar pics push through with crazy EC, I think I may of finally picked this apart.
EDIT: With a lot of help
I'm pushing these hard, and my coco is decaying. The coco is constantly giving off sodium and potassium. At a rate that increases as time goes by, like my problem. It's in bloom where they are taking on potassium the most, but will take sodium, perhaps preferentially, if available. I need to get the sodium and potassium out my coco. It holds on, resisting the flush, but can be displaced by things that hold on tighter. That's Calcium and Magnesium. As I see mag problems, it's also telling me space has been made available for Calcium, but also potassium and sodium. Calcium and Magnesium are things I can probably afford to increase without lockout issues, except for two. Sodium and Potassium displacement.
I think I should look at getting these two higher, while keeping a balanced nutrient mix. Any time they get low I allow the sodium and potassium to accumulate. I should also increase fertigation frequency as it can only be a good thing from an EC prospective, which is my foremost problem.
This relates to people running very high looking EC values to push the coco problem away. Canna make a point of the fact we like to go gentle and it can strip the buffering, which is basically the calmag. That this and deep flushing are not right for coco. We have to keep that buffer intact and pushing pants hard without the buffering levels in the feed needed will lead to this sodium and potassium problem. Having seen someone with very similar pics push through with crazy EC, I think I may of finally picked this apart.
EDIT: With a lot of help
Alright mate I have been following your thread for a while. First of all, just want to say I love the setup, have you got a tent in there on its side, underneath the bed, if so im curious what are the dimensions?
With regards to your problems, as others have said, if I were you, I would stop reusing the coco. Try a run at this spot with fresh coco and see if you still encounter any issues, judging by the size of your pots you cant be using more than 70-100L. I know you've mentioned issues moving and disposing of medium, but Imo that would be the first place to start, with fresh medium.
If that doesnt resolve the issues, I would start looking at the genetics being run and what health they are being kept in. I noticed you mentioned your not keeping mothers, but taking cuts from each round and keeping things on the go like that, ive also done the same in the past and it works fine. It is worth mentioning though, as you could have possibly been taking cuts which are getting weaker / degrading. I used to make alot of cuts and have seen it occasionally where for some reason unbeknown to me, 1 has come out messed up, you could see the leaves were smaller, the plant was weaker in general and it didnt bud up properly like the rest, although it wasnt noticeable from rooted cut stage, only once the plant had a few weeks to get established. If I had taken cuts from that 1 plant to use as new mother stock, I probably would have run in to a whole bunch of issues down the line, trying to diagnose issues etc. Its not just possible genetics degrading, maybe you could have picked up a virus from somewhere, which is being transmitted. As others have posted above, personally I would be sterilising all tools before use, such as spraying scissors with ISO between working on plants. Sterilising the entire drip line, system and res after each use, personally I would replace all pipework and fittings after each run, but thats just me.
The UV light in the tank sounds good idea , a step up would be getting one thats built in that the water passes through, a buddy of mine is a window cleaner and uses an RO filter and inline UV sterilisation to fill up x2 massive tanks he keeps in the shed. If you think your having issues with your existing RO filter not working properly maybe look in to changing the carbon, or string filter inside, depending on how old it is.
Initially reading your thread, I noticed you mentioned the high humidity, mould issues, I thought maybe you might have issues with salt build up in the medium. For example, if transpiration levels are high, most of the water in the root zone is evaporating, allowing salts to build up in your medium increasing EC, but from your posts you seem to be on the ball with that.
Hopefully your able to get to the bottom of it. Wish you all the best .
With regards to your problems, as others have said, if I were you, I would stop reusing the coco. Try a run at this spot with fresh coco and see if you still encounter any issues, judging by the size of your pots you cant be using more than 70-100L. I know you've mentioned issues moving and disposing of medium, but Imo that would be the first place to start, with fresh medium.
If that doesnt resolve the issues, I would start looking at the genetics being run and what health they are being kept in. I noticed you mentioned your not keeping mothers, but taking cuts from each round and keeping things on the go like that, ive also done the same in the past and it works fine. It is worth mentioning though, as you could have possibly been taking cuts which are getting weaker / degrading. I used to make alot of cuts and have seen it occasionally where for some reason unbeknown to me, 1 has come out messed up, you could see the leaves were smaller, the plant was weaker in general and it didnt bud up properly like the rest, although it wasnt noticeable from rooted cut stage, only once the plant had a few weeks to get established. If I had taken cuts from that 1 plant to use as new mother stock, I probably would have run in to a whole bunch of issues down the line, trying to diagnose issues etc. Its not just possible genetics degrading, maybe you could have picked up a virus from somewhere, which is being transmitted. As others have posted above, personally I would be sterilising all tools before use, such as spraying scissors with ISO between working on plants. Sterilising the entire drip line, system and res after each use, personally I would replace all pipework and fittings after each run, but thats just me.
The UV light in the tank sounds good idea , a step up would be getting one thats built in that the water passes through, a buddy of mine is a window cleaner and uses an RO filter and inline UV sterilisation to fill up x2 massive tanks he keeps in the shed. If you think your having issues with your existing RO filter not working properly maybe look in to changing the carbon, or string filter inside, depending on how old it is.
Initially reading your thread, I noticed you mentioned the high humidity, mould issues, I thought maybe you might have issues with salt build up in the medium. For example, if transpiration levels are high, most of the water in the root zone is evaporating, allowing salts to build up in your medium increasing EC, but from your posts you seem to be on the ball with that.
Hopefully your able to get to the bottom of it. Wish you all the best .
Blazeee I have a thread on the build here https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...indrome-s-workshop/377728-under-bed-grow-room
It's a 1.4
I also get the occasional outlier, but take many more cuts than I need to filter them down to the best. Many think that cutting after cutting can only get worse, and while after decades some do tire of growing and just want to flower, on the whole things are more likely to improve in my care. I guess getting used to conditions.
I have the RO filter, but it's broke. Arrived that way. I'm waiting on spares from China so it could be a while. I looked at the inline UV units but the added complication of what it does to the feed puts me off the idea a little. I like the fact this will do my water, but also the tank surfaces that are not in the water. Like a magic wand. I'm just waiting for the thing to arrive and destroy my non-uvpvc tank now
I'm pretty sure the water loss is via the plants, from measuring all over the place. The air comes up through the canopy gaining a lot of moisture, peaking where it exits, before the drop from the lights heating the air circulating there. I have moved from 6(cm) to 8(cm) fans now and lost the ability to grow, so I don't expect any mould this time
I have the next ones in new coco and they should be in this week. My best runs have been about ec1.6 with newer coco. That lead to 2.0 runoff and they didn't like that. I thought it was the 2.0 they didn't like but I'm thinking it was more the gain of 0.4 that was speaking to me.
It's a little un-nerving to pile into a grow at high feed levels because they keep burning. It could be seen as crazy. But we have people out there (and in here) using over 2.4 and even 3.4 when years ago 2.7 was said to be poison without co2. It's only really sshz that seems to of backed off and done well, but he's in compost. Many compost growers are doing well with the LED's. It's generally stacked out with calcium, and calcium signs are a solid LED product. Maybe I am just running out of Calcium, letting the sodium and potassium get a foothold and push away the Mg which is the first I see.
I'm pretty damn specific about what I'm feeding with, or try to be at least. This level of info is rarely (if ever) seen on forums though. So there isn't a lot to copy or thumb through.
It's a 1.4
I also get the occasional outlier, but take many more cuts than I need to filter them down to the best. Many think that cutting after cutting can only get worse, and while after decades some do tire of growing and just want to flower, on the whole things are more likely to improve in my care. I guess getting used to conditions.
I have the RO filter, but it's broke. Arrived that way. I'm waiting on spares from China so it could be a while. I looked at the inline UV units but the added complication of what it does to the feed puts me off the idea a little. I like the fact this will do my water, but also the tank surfaces that are not in the water. Like a magic wand. I'm just waiting for the thing to arrive and destroy my non-uvpvc tank now
I'm pretty sure the water loss is via the plants, from measuring all over the place. The air comes up through the canopy gaining a lot of moisture, peaking where it exits, before the drop from the lights heating the air circulating there. I have moved from 6(cm) to 8(cm) fans now and lost the ability to grow, so I don't expect any mould this time
I have the next ones in new coco and they should be in this week. My best runs have been about ec1.6 with newer coco. That lead to 2.0 runoff and they didn't like that. I thought it was the 2.0 they didn't like but I'm thinking it was more the gain of 0.4 that was speaking to me.
It's a little un-nerving to pile into a grow at high feed levels because they keep burning. It could be seen as crazy. But we have people out there (and in here) using over 2.4 and even 3.4 when years ago 2.7 was said to be poison without co2. It's only really sshz that seems to of backed off and done well, but he's in compost. Many compost growers are doing well with the LED's. It's generally stacked out with calcium, and calcium signs are a solid LED product. Maybe I am just running out of Calcium, letting the sodium and potassium get a foothold and push away the Mg which is the first I see.
I'm pretty damn specific about what I'm feeding with, or try to be at least. This level of info is rarely (if ever) seen on forums though. So there isn't a lot to copy or thumb through.
Alright mate
Thanks for the clarification on the build, I had previously read your thread and for some reason thought it was a smaller tent based on your dimensions for the head height between plants and light, I forgot to look at the pics properly and take in to account the height of the filter, initially I thought you had managed to source a really odd sized tent lol.
I fully agree with the cuts, I was making new mothers every other month, taking way more cuts than necessary, only mothering up the strongest and the genetics were just as good and healthy years later. Just thought it was worth mentioning initially, incase any bad ones slipped through the net by mistake.
Its a shame your RO unit arrived broken. Personally I would have used the inline UV filter to supply the res first, then added nutes afterwards as opposed to running water with nutes through it. But your right, makes sense to use the bulb as it will take care of the surfaces in the tank, at the time I was only thinking about the quality of water.
With regards to the strength of feed, Im a soil grower myself, I have previously maxed out at 2.4ec in peak flower, but I was hand watering at the time. A couple years back I switched over to x18 autopots with a 200L res, when running the autopots I lowered the strength of my feed down to 1.6 max in the res, as at the time I feared evaporation of water in the res causing the strengh of feed to slowly creep up. Luckily I didnt encounter any issues, but when it was close to harvest time, you could see the salt build up in the medium and on top of the soil and around the bottom of the pots and autopot components, even after a 2 week flush.
Hopefully you dont encounter any issues on the next run with the new coco. I see your extremely specific with the nutes, not going to lie, some of it does go over my head a little, im just used to so many ml of whatever bottle, I have never taken the time to work out how much PPM of each nutrient i'm adding. I just thought I would offer my input in the previous post as an alternative perspective incase your issues weren't feed related.
Just thinking out loud here, but if you think its due to lack of calmag in the root zone, would it be worth feeding them as usual, but for the first 7-14 days of 12/12 also foliar feeding calmag too, just to help boost calmag levels and help you get past that week 3-4 stage where youve been noticing issues arrise?
As i say though, just thinking out loud. Hopefully your able to overcome these issues on the next run. Wish you all the best.
Thanks for the clarification on the build, I had previously read your thread and for some reason thought it was a smaller tent based on your dimensions for the head height between plants and light, I forgot to look at the pics properly and take in to account the height of the filter, initially I thought you had managed to source a really odd sized tent lol.
I fully agree with the cuts, I was making new mothers every other month, taking way more cuts than necessary, only mothering up the strongest and the genetics were just as good and healthy years later. Just thought it was worth mentioning initially, incase any bad ones slipped through the net by mistake.
Its a shame your RO unit arrived broken. Personally I would have used the inline UV filter to supply the res first, then added nutes afterwards as opposed to running water with nutes through it. But your right, makes sense to use the bulb as it will take care of the surfaces in the tank, at the time I was only thinking about the quality of water.
With regards to the strength of feed, Im a soil grower myself, I have previously maxed out at 2.4ec in peak flower, but I was hand watering at the time. A couple years back I switched over to x18 autopots with a 200L res, when running the autopots I lowered the strength of my feed down to 1.6 max in the res, as at the time I feared evaporation of water in the res causing the strengh of feed to slowly creep up. Luckily I didnt encounter any issues, but when it was close to harvest time, you could see the salt build up in the medium and on top of the soil and around the bottom of the pots and autopot components, even after a 2 week flush.
Hopefully you dont encounter any issues on the next run with the new coco. I see your extremely specific with the nutes, not going to lie, some of it does go over my head a little, im just used to so many ml of whatever bottle, I have never taken the time to work out how much PPM of each nutrient i'm adding. I just thought I would offer my input in the previous post as an alternative perspective incase your issues weren't feed related.
Just thinking out loud here, but if you think its due to lack of calmag in the root zone, would it be worth feeding them as usual, but for the first 7-14 days of 12/12 also foliar feeding calmag too, just to help boost calmag levels and help you get past that week 3-4 stage where youve been noticing issues arrise?
As i say though, just thinking out loud. Hopefully your able to overcome these issues on the next run. Wish you all the best.
Hey bud. Thanks for looking through my issues and offering some thoughts. It all gets my brain going and maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but at some point little gems of information always find their way into the mix
I guess I could spray to satisfy the plants, so they don't strip the coco. I would really like to put it in the water though. It's my need to measure things exactly (not the plants needs, mine) that stops me spraying as part of a program. I want a program of tank setting that a monkey can follow, for automation reasons. So I can get away. Though hey... I have seen them air fresheners that spray every half hour... we can do it
I have been over 150ppm calcium, with it going to pieces. I have seen others go as high as 280iirc. Looking at soil, you can have loads of it, but I need to keep it in line with the rest of the feed. Specifically that K Ca Mg balance. But I will push out Iron next, it won't end there.
I have not properly fried anything in so long I can't remember it. Sod it... I'm going to poison these tomorrow. Just for old times sake. I might see a white hair appear... It been on my mind. ec2.4 seems as good as any. Have it
I guess I could spray to satisfy the plants, so they don't strip the coco. I would really like to put it in the water though. It's my need to measure things exactly (not the plants needs, mine) that stops me spraying as part of a program. I want a program of tank setting that a monkey can follow, for automation reasons. So I can get away. Though hey... I have seen them air fresheners that spray every half hour... we can do it
I have been over 150ppm calcium, with it going to pieces. I have seen others go as high as 280iirc. Looking at soil, you can have loads of it, but I need to keep it in line with the rest of the feed. Specifically that K Ca Mg balance. But I will push out Iron next, it won't end there.
I have not properly fried anything in so long I can't remember it. Sod it... I'm going to poison these tomorrow. Just for old times sake. I might see a white hair appear... It been on my mind. ec2.4 seems as good as any. Have it
jackspratt61
Active member
In 1939 Tiedjiens was running 250 N,140 P,180K,110 Mg,360 Ca,1B.1Mn,1Fe. What happens when the Mg is dropped?
Broggemann
Active member
You guys are talking a lot... without all that babbling, it would be much easier to read.
No offense though, I enjoyed a lot of your posts on this site!
Imho you're massively overcomplicating your situation.
All I can see on your pictures is a textbook example of a potassium deficiency.
Looking at your numbers, you're just running it way too low and that's where all your problems are coming from.
I'm running 300ppm K and 220ppm Ca in veg (LED/coco), just saying.
If you're looking at nutrient formulations specifically for cannabis developed in the last couple years, you will notice, there is quite a lot of potassium as well.
No offense though, I enjoyed a lot of your posts on this site!
Imho you're massively overcomplicating your situation.
All I can see on your pictures is a textbook example of a potassium deficiency.
Looking at your numbers, you're just running it way too low and that's where all your problems are coming from.
I'm running 300ppm K and 220ppm Ca in veg (LED/coco), just saying.
If you're looking at nutrient formulations specifically for cannabis developed in the last couple years, you will notice, there is quite a lot of potassium as well.
Any time I have raised K (usually with P) I have burnt the hairs and caused stalling. That's not just now, it's the last 25 years. My base flower feed, which has worked for many years, supplies 180ppm of K and with it's boost product comes in around 300ppm. However they will have brown singed hairs overnight. However, today they are double dosing on base feed with some calmag and Pot-sil. Roughly 230-90-375-200-80 which has just no real science behind it at all, except the K push. For days they have had no K at all from me. Or N. Just 0-40-0-180-50 with no real signs.
As this is in flower, do you have your numbers for the end of transition? I'm aware that P&K demand is replacing N demand at this time but bumping either or both has not been useful. Which would be the uncomplicated answer we would all like to find.
Dropping the Mg caused Mg like signs. I can't get below about 40ppm.
Edit: Low K produces a similar leaf but the burnt hairs I have not seen associated with low K, and low K usually means air-bud. These are firm. Small, but firm.
As this is in flower, do you have your numbers for the end of transition? I'm aware that P&K demand is replacing N demand at this time but bumping either or both has not been useful. Which would be the uncomplicated answer we would all like to find.
Dropping the Mg caused Mg like signs. I can't get below about 40ppm.
Edit: Low K produces a similar leaf but the burnt hairs I have not seen associated with low K, and low K usually means air-bud. These are firm. Small, but firm.
vulcanofilo
New member
Solo tienes que poner un clon en tierra nueva y ver si aún hay fallos..
tan fácil como eso.
ya te digo yo que tienes otro problema
tan fácil como eso.
ya te digo yo que tienes otro problema
Thank you for those numbers. I have been mulling them over. I'm unsure of substrate but that Ca is out there. Most info I find is just npk and would find the N very high. I guess the Mg is high just for the Ca. The 3 of them are really putting pressure on the K.
I have Floranova I might run. At 2.5ml per liter it gives 100-88-145-106-30 Which with 2ml of my calmag and tap gives 158-88-145-200-70 which I feel maxes out the N and Mg.
.................................................at 3.74 full dose gives.....150-132-218-71-45 and many report to too strong. I don't know why, it's just chatter.
Hmm. The one thing I have seen in excess is N at this transition. Only recent records have recorded such things. I'm not using calmag elsewhere, just my base and sniff of PK. No problems that need things displacing from the coco. However there is no ppm target or amount of feed, just a target EC. Whatever it takes. I will hazard a guess at 100-50-200-110-? in twice the coco volume. Two feeds a day, but one is just a little top-up without waste. They have a couple of liters of reservoir below the pots they don't sit in, but drop roots in. They stain, but that's quite a bit more water availability that's not an area of roots in coco.
The plants in my old coco are putting out nice fuzzy white roots. I will wash one off and get pics soon. I see nothing wrong. I like what I see. Smells good. Nothing odd growing.
I must get the N down sooner. Not for the first time, but other things have changed. Many feeds seem to come in around 80ppm but are likely to gain 30 from calmag use. Many feeds also supply 150ppm. An AG college ran 200-200-200 and felt happy. My problem isn't likely to be cured with fine tuning numbers. It's something horrifically wrong. Like the EC at the sucker roots, where things are a bit more root bound, going crazy. I'm forever open to ideas.
I have been using more Ca on the veg plants and they do have a certain gloss to them that's usually seen in good soil. Mostly from calmag, but then a bit of mono-calcium. I'm also watering daily, though I could miss a day. Good structure. It's not hurting.
This build (when built) used new coco and had the problem. It got worse. My new plants are growing are in new coco and will be in flower this week. I'm trying
Edit: The best runs were the first ones. Using just my bloom. I got a rash so started with low levels of calmag. Cured the rash, but this gets worse. The argument for K is good when we look at it happening after Calmag, but it didn't help. Today I try K again.
jackspratt61
Active member
If entering flowering with too high of N you can spray epsom salts at 1tbsp to lower that condition..works well. Mg bumps the N off the root. Mulder chart shows mg interactions with ca,k,n and P. When mg is dropped less n is needed and it's easier to get ca and k into the plant. Mg deficiency is usually high k,na or low P. Notice the fe/mn ratio Tiedjens used also..important.
I spent today at double feed, with slightly raised calmag. It came to EC2. For a few days I have used 0-40-0 +calmag, which with the tap gave about 0.9 and ran out at 1.3 Todays run-off was 1.6 which surprised me. Either they or the coco sucked it up. The plant that was 80 brown went 100% brown with 260-80-360 and the leaf issue perhaps got worse, I don't have pics to be sure.
I think I can find an N recommendation from bottles at 80 to my ~135 though to 150 in some AG mixs, the college at 200 and now 250. Most bottles come in at or below 100 though. My basic is 98 which left alone seems just a bit low. I can veg at that though. Adding calmag (and nitric) is the only reason it usually gets higher. I have been using more and more. It does fit. Though not with the leaf issue.
I was foliar feeding in zones and the bad leaf zone was the Mg zone. I also had a P and K and just wetting agent zones. I think the leaves may not be related to the browning, or there is a change in what the plant eats. I had stopped as buds started to come though. It's not conclusive.
Canna know their coco and feed it as much as the plants. 112-40-56-98-33 Yes that's 56ppm K in canna coco. This is expected to go with tap so maybe 112-40-56-175-50 and iirc they use a PK boost but only week 4. They seem to dislike K more than I do. It's very low on K and high on Ca by most bottle standards.
I think I can find an N recommendation from bottles at 80 to my ~135 though to 150 in some AG mixs, the college at 200 and now 250. Most bottles come in at or below 100 though. My basic is 98 which left alone seems just a bit low. I can veg at that though. Adding calmag (and nitric) is the only reason it usually gets higher. I have been using more and more. It does fit. Though not with the leaf issue.
I was foliar feeding in zones and the bad leaf zone was the Mg zone. I also had a P and K and just wetting agent zones. I think the leaves may not be related to the browning, or there is a change in what the plant eats. I had stopped as buds started to come though. It's not conclusive.
Canna know their coco and feed it as much as the plants. 112-40-56-98-33 Yes that's 56ppm K in canna coco. This is expected to go with tap so maybe 112-40-56-175-50 and iirc they use a PK boost but only week 4. They seem to dislike K more than I do. It's very low on K and high on Ca by most bottle standards.
