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How To Prevent Botrytis, PM, and Bacterial Leaf Spot Disease

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
The Secrets to Preventing Bud Rot


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This entry will explain what we as outdoor growers can do to prevent fungal diseases from ever occurring, how they even manifest in the first place, and a few other things we can do in order to really ensure a healthy harvest. I know all of you hate clipping out botrytis buds as much as I do - there's no worse feeling than hiking out to your patch in October and being forced to leave half of the plant on the ground next to your stalk due to these different types of fungi. Before addressing this problem we must fully understand the process of infection in order to prevent it from ever happening. But before getting to that, I'll start by saying that the key to beating these pathogenic spores is by growing extremely healthy plants. A healthy plant cannot be infected. By anything. Not botrytis, not powdery mildew, not bacterial diseases (leaf spot), nothing. But before moving on, what do I mean by a "healthy plant"? You'll find it quite interesting how similar we humans are to our beloved cannabis plant, and all plants for that matter...


Plant & Human Immune Systems

First off, we must all understand that fungal/bacterial spores are everywhere we go; they're in the air at all times. In the time you took to read that first sentence you inhaled hundreds if not thousands of these spores. That's right! But wait, why aren't we getting sick from them? It's because we have functioning immune systems. I'm about to make a very eye-opening relation between human & plant health that too many growers aren't aware of, and it plays a HUGE role in preventing bud rot so bare with me here...

We as humans have a built-up resistance to pathogens that enter our bodies - solely due to these functioning immune systems. The majority of this system resides in our guts too, this comprises of millions and billions of gut flora (microorganisms). Microorganisms can be beneficial or non-beneficial by nature, so a healthy immune system simply means the beneficial populations are out-numbering the non-beneficial.

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Beneficial gut bacteria

It is Nature's Law that every living organism has an immune system comprised of microorganisms. This is a very important fact to keep in the back of our heads while gardening because we are indeed working with nature, are we not? So with that being said, it is vital that we understand that plants are no different than any other living organism in that they too have functioning immune systems they rely on to maintain high levels of plant health. Human health is centered around the gut, while plant health is actually centered around the soil it grows in.

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"Living organic soil"

Did you know that 1 tablespoon of soil in the forest contains more than 1 billion microorganisms?! It's true, and these are the very microorganisms that dictate whether the plants growing from it are sick or healthy. I like to call it my army - microbes are the key factor when it comes to plant health. I won't turn this into an organic soil post, but in short I can tell all of you hard-working growers out there that organic soil is your best friend. I look at the microbes as an army of defense while I'm not there, and without them my walls are bare and infiltration of fungi spores can and will occur at any time.

What if the plants aren't grown in soil though? What if there are no microorganisms present in the medium? Well, the best analogy I can think of is when a person goes through chemo-therapy. Feeding synthetic bottled nutrients and chemicals to a plant does the same thing chemo does to a patient - it kills the immune system. Wipes it out completely. Zero. Zilch. What happens when humans don't have a functioning immune system? You guessed it - infection occurs. The same goes with plants, when we don't provide that plant with any immunity then we're leaving it to fend for itself. That's why this thread really spoke to me, I felt like I really needed to let people know how I've beat the dreaded fungus and not only that but why I beat it - rather than listing a product or an integrated pest management regimen (which I will also be including later after this entry).



The Process of Infection


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Powdery mildew post-infection

There are many genetic varieties of both Powdery Mildew and Botrytis but all persist through the winter months in the form of sclerotia or mycelia. In the spring, both the sclerotia and the myscelia produce conidiophores which grow millions of asexual spores (conidia) that are then spread by wind and rain. Like mentioned above, there is not avoiding these airborne spores. We breathe in, and even smoke some that land on our trees while we're rolling joints up everyday without second thought. Again, we have functioning immune systems to combat these pathogens - so the key to avoiding them from infecting our plants is to utilize the power of nature and grow in a well-balanced organic soil that contains all the necessary macro/micro nutrients. If we accomplish this step, the rest is Easy Street folks... it's that simple.

You see, when we grow plants with microorganisms in the soil that provide this functioning immunity for the plant - all worries of fungal and bacterial disease fly out the window. This is how - Healthy plants that are supplied with everything needed in the terms of macro/micro nutrients allow that plant to build up and store fats in the form of lipids. These lipids form on the coating of the leaves, and provide this waxy-looking film on them. This layer of lipids is KEY in fending off airborne spores. I repeat, this layer of lipids is KEY in fending off airborne spores. Without it, the leaf surface is susceptible to anything that lands on it.

So say for example I have 2 plants growing side by side in the same location, say a humid swamp environment for example. The healthy organic plant with functional immunity that has already stored lipids will grow in this swamp from seed to harvest without any disease or fungal outbreak, every single damn time. The plant next it grown with synthetic nutrients will allow every spore that lands on it's surface an opportunity to settle down, germinate, and spread infection to that plant systematically.

The way this happens is the spore lands on the leaf, and releases an enzyme called Calcium Pectate. This is just a fancy word meaning the enzyme has the ability to break down pectins. Once the spore has released this enzyme and the pectins are broken down, the leaf is now sporting what we would look at as a big flesh wound. Anything that gets inside that wound, or the plant in this case; will and can cause infection. This is why so many chemical and synthetic growers are having these problems, just like me when I was growing using these methods. The day I stopped feeding with chemicals and started adapting these organic regimens was the day I conquered bacterial & fungal airborne spores. I'm proud to say that I've been powdery mildew and botrytis-free since 2012, and you can too if you adopt these methods I and many others have to prevent bud rot or anything else from ever happening. Please trust me on this folks, I've been through hell and back and I'm here to report on my findings in hopes to stop at least one grower from leaving a pile of bud at each of their holes next October.



My personal experience

You're probably wondering why I'm a nerd on this stuff, and what led me down this path. Long story short, I had a pretty bad outbreak 3 seasons ago and when I dried the crop indoors it spread to my indoor crop as well. This was a very low point in my grow career, I literally broke down and considered shutting down my indoor grow and saying "fuck it" to next year's outdoor. I got drunk out of spite that night, went to bed and woke up the next day with some hidden motivation that I pulled out of somewhere and decided to push my ego to the side and admit I wasn't a very knowledgable grower. This was an extremely humbling experience, and I didn't know how to handle it since I was pretty cocky beforehand. It's like I've lost my credibility as a grower, at least in my own eyes.

Anyways, before this PM outbreak from Hell I lost 40% of my crop the year prior to Botrytis. I just thought that's the way it goes, and everyone has to go through it. Boy was I wrong...


In both 2013 & 2014 I came out 100% mold free. This was ground breaking for me, I literally cried the first day I harvested in '13. I walked out there, and the first plant I approached was with gloves and scissors in hand just ready to clip out my losses for the season. But what was this?! No mildew? No botrytis? Not possible I thought. I had followed some grower's advice on switching to organic soil, but I didn't think that was the reason for my success at that point in time. I busted out my headlamp and inspected again. Nothing. Completely clean herb. I got excited and wanted to celebrate but I figured it was just that plant/strain. 2nd plant was clean, and the 3rd, and the 4th, and 5th. All 20 plants were completely mold-free and I had an entirely different problem on my hands now - too MUCH bud. I had planned for only taking back half of that harvest and now I had too many pounds of bud to dry at my home location. I ended up making 2 sessions out of it, and dried the 2nd batch a few weeks after the 1st one. When I went back for the 2nd half of the crop on October 22nd there still wasn't any mold, and we had gotten a few heavy rain storms in that period of time. I celebrated when I got home, and with the harvest money I threw everything out that I had in the grow room and switched over to an all-organic routine. I've been running soil ever since...




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Blue Widow grown in soil down in the swamp (2014)

The swamps I grew in for 2013/2014 in were the same I've grown in the years before, the same ones that suffer from lingering A.M. humidity and fog. Moisture always gathers at the lowest elevation, and this swamp was IT in that area. I took a hygrometer out there one morning on Day 50 of flowering and it read 92% relative humidity. So I was growing in insane conditions, but the organic routine I've been following for the past 2 years has simply allowed the plants to reach peak health (or what I call peak genetic potential), thus eliminating any possibility of fungal pathogens to bypass the lipid-producing waxy layer on the leaves in order to germinate. They simply dried out due to lack of water!

This method of growing not only saves the grower from worrying about whether or not they're going to harvest a bumper crop that year, but it also opens up the doors when it comes to possible site locations. We can absolutely grow in these humid environments like swamps and bogs, without worrying about fungal take-overs. This puts the guerrilla at an extreme advantage in the outdoor game, because they now have the option of any clandestine location that they want (for the most part) instead of ruling these locations out due to high humidity levels in the air.





References used in this entry:
John Kempf's Bio Nutrient conference (Parts 1,2,3,4)
 
great post i will say that blue widow is a fast flowering plant
also i have a friend that is having a big problem with powder mildew and i have been trying to tell him that a healthy plant can withstand way more and fight problems thank you this post will help me explain the importance of a good soil and healthy root system
 

Kygiacomo!!!

AppAlachiAn OutLaW
i want to add this to this thread..i posted it on on another site but it looks like it should be here as well..if anyone isnt useing insect frass then just look at the link at the bottom of this thread what u are missing,its got chitson in it! team microbe clued me in on the Insect Frass..it will be my #4 thing to introduce SAR in my plants..im hoping that will make them some outdoor tanks!!

Methods of inducing Local Acquired Resistance and Induced Systemic Resistance
Induced Resistance

(1) There is a diverse array of signals that stimulate IR.

(2) IR is a sensitization process that primes the plant for
more rapid deployment of defenses.

(3) When integrated into good agricultural practices, IR
can both enhance plant productivity and resistance to
disease.

(4) Has energetic costs


Types of induced resistance

1. Local acquired resistance (LAR)
2. Systemic acquired resistance (SAR)
3. Systemic gene silencing (SGS)
4. Induced systemic resistance (ISR)
5. Systemic wounding response (SWR)

Systemic Acquired Resistance

Controlled by salicylic acid (SA)
Broad resistance
More durable
Relies on the plants endogenous defenses
Classically effective against biotrophic pathogens

Chitosan

Chitosan is a plant defense booster derived through the breaking down of chitin found in shellfish and mullosks.
In general Chitosan can help improve the efficiency of a nutrient or fertilizer.
Chitosan will increase the quantity, size and shelf life of a harvest product. Chitosan is also effective at providing insect and disease control.
The chitosan molecule triggers a defence response within the plant, leading to the formation of physical and chemical barriers against invading pathogens.
Chitosan possesses a high growth stimulating efficacy combined with antifungal and antibacterial activity of systemic character. Chitosan cause no damage to the plant whatsoever.

Chitosan inhibits the reproduction of pathogens. Once applied either via foliar spray or through watering, it provides plant protection against fungal infection by rapid expression of a number of defense responses, including forming structural barriers at sites of attempted fungal attacks.
It also protects against insect attack by activating genes which produce protease inhibitors.
Lastly, chitosan stimulates the plants hormones responsible for root formation,stem growth, fruit formation and development.
In addition to promoting growth and protecting against attacks, using chitosan in a garden can help to improve the beneficial microbial activity of a growing medium.
This increase in microbial activity helps in conversion of nutrients to bio-available form. Chitosan improves the root system, allowing plants to absorb more nutrients from a medium.
We expect
Chitosan to become one of the top plant health and yield products as awareness of its value grows.

Salicylic Acid

The next additive in the this new class of Natural Plant Defenders is Salicylic Acid.
This specific plant molecule has two major functions. In the first it acts as a promoter letting the entire plant know (through the use of intercellular mechanisms) that pathogens are near.
The second way in which Salicylic Acid works is as an activator. It actually heightens the alarm signal a plant experiences. In plants, Salicylic Acid serves the function of ringing the alarm bell when a pathogenic organism begins to invade plant tissues.
A whole web of immunity-enhancing processes unfold after the plants are exposed to Salicylic Acid - when that initial alarm is rung.
A whole range of proteins and enzymes become activated as soon as Salicylic Acid is released and absorbed into plant cells.
Salicylic Acid also promotes DNA-binding proteins that initiate new protein synthesis.

Harpin Protein

The final additive we would like to discuss is the Harpin protein. Harpin, like the other SAR products on this handout,
acts by eliciting a complex natural defense mechanism in plants, analogous to a broad spectrum immune
response in animals. Harpin simultaneously enhances a plant's own growth systems and natural defense mechanisms
to ward off attacks by insects, common diseases and plant stresses.

Unlike Salicylic Acid or Chitosan, Harpin uses a protein for its main mode of action. It can be safely used in a
synergistic way with both Salicylic Acid and Chitosan. Harpin is a naturally occurring bacterial protein present in a
number of species of plant pathogenic bacteria. The first harpin protein was isolated from the bacterium Erwinia
amylovora. To sum up Harpin’s benefits: Along with its plant inducing immune system response, Harpin accelerates
plant development. It increases root and shoot biomass, early flowering, early fruit set, early fruit maturation, and
increases fruit number.

B1 Thiamine

Strengthens plant immune systems so they better stand up to disease and stress.
B1 activates Systemic Acquired Resistance (SAR)

Silicon

Silicon induces the SAR response and enables suberization (cork development in cell walls).

Using Chitosan and Salicylic Acid Together

Compared to Salicylic Acid, Chitosan is slower and less effective at inducing plant cell immunity; in combination
with a well formulated Salicylic Acid solution, chitosan has compounded effects as Salicylic Acid amplifies the
“alarm” triggered by the chitosan. The most powerful products always use both of these ingredients.
http://onfrass.com/docs/One sheet_Applications and Benefits.pdf
 

Kygiacomo!!!

AppAlachiAn OutLaW
great post i will say that blue widow is a fast flowering plant
also i have a friend that is having a big problem with powder mildew and i have been trying to tell him that a healthy plant can withstand way more and fight problems thank you this post will help me explain the importance of a good soil and healthy root system
u might want to have ur buddy to look into this since hes already infected..also greencure will kill powder mildew

Organic JMS Stylet-Oil! Organic JMS Stylet-Oil contains the same high purity base oil that kills powdery mildew on contact, controls plant feeding mite populations and is safe for field workers and the environment.

With its new advanced emulsification system, Organic JMS Stylet-Oil uses only the safest inert ingredients on EPA’s List 4, — but that’s not all. Each component of Organic Stylet-Oil’s formulation meets or exceeds “Food Grade Quality” standards making it a safe, environmentally friendly white oil formulation. Organic JMS Stylet-Oil is one of the few tools organic growers have that can control a number of pests — certain fungal diseases, insects, mites, plus certain poty viruses — with a single application!

Organic JMS Stylet-Oil also acts as an environmentally safe alternative to sulfur for both insect and disease control. Sulfur can evaporate into the atmosphere to combine with water resulting in acid rain, but Organic JMS Stylet-Oil stays on your crops, where you need it. Another plus is that, unlike sulfur, Organic JMS Stylet-Oil is not volatile in temperatures below 65 degrees F, making it the perfect early-season powdery mildew control alternative.

• OMRI Listed
• Safe to Workers and the Environment
• Can be used as a Fungicide, Insecticide and for Virus Control
• Colorless, Tasteless and Odorless
• “Food Grade Quality”
• Not as Harmful to Beneficial Insects
• No Pre-Harvest Interval
• Economical and Easy to Use

p.s aloe vera powder will activate the SAR of our ladies..one other thing to read about is google aspirn water
 

smurfin'herb

Registered Cannabis User
Veteran
So your saying that organically fed plants wont mold, and synthetics will?

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought plants take up nutrients in the same forms as they always have. They eat salts/ions that are broken down from the organic elements. Synthetic ferts are simply the "refining" of these organic elements into the more immediately bioavailable source of food. The plants are taking elements in through the roots in relatively the same forms whether your feeding with organics or synthetics.

Aside from the occasional unnatural chelates, whats so bad about what they put in synthetic ferts?
 

Mad Lab

Member
So your saying that organically fed plants wont mold, and synthetics will?

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought plants take up nutrients in the same forms as they always have. They eat salts/ions that are broken down from the organic elements. Synthetic ferts are simply the "refining" of these organic elements into the more immediately bioavailable source of food. The plants are taking elements in through the roots in relatively the same forms whether your feeding with organics or synthetics.

Aside from the occasional unnatural chelates, whats so bad about what they put in synthetic ferts?

Right.
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
So your saying that organically fed plants wont mold, and synthetics will?

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought plants take up nutrients in the same forms as they always have. They eat salts/ions that are broken down from the organic elements. Synthetic ferts are simply the "refining" of these organic elements into the more immediately bioavailable source of food. The plants are taking elements in through the roots in relatively the same forms whether your feeding with organics or synthetics.

Aside from the occasional unnatural chelates, whats so bad about what they put in synthetic ferts?

In short, yes. It's not how the nutrients are delivered, it's the functioning immunity that's created in a living soil environment. Synthetics hinder microbe populations, and the chelation process skips that microbe herd all together and goes straight to the plant. Without a diverse microbe population we're entering war with a shortage of troops so-to-speak. Without "good guys" we're out numbered by the "bad guys", which is why more disease outbreak is seen under synthetic regimens where plants aren't given that functioning immunity. It's like when chemo patients kill their gut flora, many get very sick soon there after because their immune system is completely shot
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Hey Team Microbe,

How do you feel about EM1 or active EM1 (AE1)?

And how about EM5?

I love using EM1 in between cycles to regenerate the soil in my no-tills. I also use it on the ground before laying down soil, and while wetting recycled soil mixes before the "cook". What's EM5 again? Is that the 1:1 molasses mix used for long term usage?
 

Mad Lab

Member
What's EM5 again? Is that the 1:1 molasses mix used for long term usage?

I just started a thread devoted to EM1, EM5 and FPE([FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fermented Plant Extracts[/FONT]). Hopefully I can get some action to the thread.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"EM1 & EM5 - Effective Micro-Organism Organic - Fungicides and Pesticide Thread"[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]EM5 is a non-chemical insect repellent and is non toxic . EM5 is used to prevent disease and pest problems in crop plants. It is usually sprayed onto plants at a dilution of 1/500 -1/1000 in water. It is mainly used to repel insects by creating a sort of barrier. EM5 could also control insect populations. EM5 carried by insects to places of food storage could "contaminate" the stored food. The process of fermentation that takes place in the food due to EM5 makes it non-edible to insects, thereby diminishing populations.


In making EM5, ingredients may vary. A standard set of ingredients is listed below. However, to make effective EM5 for more persistent pests, more organic materials should be added (organic materials that has a high quantum of antioxidants such as garlic, hot peppers, aloe, neem leaf, pruned green fruits, and grass) which are considered to be of medicinal value. When using such materials, they should be chopped or mashed in a mixer. Some or all of the materials may be used in making EM5.
The following is a standard set of ingredients for making EM5


lngredients(Standard).


1. Water #1 600 cc
2. Molasses 100 cc
3. Vinegar #2 100 cc
4. Distilled spirit (30-50 %) #3 100 cc
5. EM1 100 cc
#1 Well water preferred since tap water is chlorinated.
#2: Natural vinegar is better than artificial acids
#3: Whiskey or Ethyl alcohol could be used.


Items needed in making of EM5
A large pot may be used to initially blend all of the ingredients. Plastic containers are required to store the EM5 along with a funnel to pour the EM into the containers.


Blend the molasses with water, make certain that it has been completely dissolved. You may use warm water for quick dilution of molasses.
Add vinegar and distilled spirit, followed by EM1.
Pour the mixed solution into a plastic container which can be shut tightly (A glass container should not be used). Remove excess air in container to maintain anaerobic conditions.
Store the bottle in a warm place (20-35 °C), away from direct sunlight.
When container is expanded by the fermented gas, loosen the cap of the container to release gas. Shut it tightly again.
The EM5 is ready for use when the production of gas has subsided. The EM5 should have a sweet smell (Ester/alcohol).


EM5 should be stored in a dark cool place, which has a uniform temperature. Do not store in the refrigerator or in direct sunlight. EM5 should be used within three months after preparation.


APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS:
Spray EM5 diluted in water 1/500-1/1000 to wet the crop.
Start spraying after germination, before pests and diseases appear.
Spray in the morning or after heavy rains.
Apply EM5 regularly.
Since EM5 is not a pesticide, germicide or a harmful chemical, the application method is different from other agrochemicals. Chemicals are used to solve a problem forcefully and quickly and are applied at specific intervals. EM5, on the other hand, should be applied from the time of planting before the development of any disease or pests. If this is not done and diseases or pests appear, EM5 should be sprayed daily until the problem disappears.


Application can be done once - twice a week with a direct spray onto the plants. Direct spraying on harmful insects should reduce populations leading to eventual disappearance.
A thorough spraying to the plant ensures good results. Continuous or regular sprayings ensure that harmful insects which may have escaped or are recent additions will be affected by the EM5. EM5 works over time. Thus regular applications brings out the best results.


Although chemical applications may give rapid results, it may be harmful to plants and soil. The long term effects may be disastrous not only to the environment but also to the farmer's economic condition and health. EM5 has no adverse effect even with excessive applications. In contrast, EM5 may enhance the plant's strength through the absorption of EM and therefore increase the level of antioxidation (that is, the ability to suppress disease, pest infestation, and overcome any debilitating factors.). Although EM5 may take time to create the best condition depending on soil and type of crops grown, it will benefit the environment, the soil, the plant cultivated, and the economic status of the farmer.


The upliftment of the economic status occurs as EM5 can be made easily and cheaply. Over the long term, less EM5 (costs for the material to make EM5) is needed since the soil conditions change. This ensures a healthy and strong crop to protect itself from disease and pests. The post-harvest crop residues incorporated back to soil as a pre-treatment before the next season is recommended and, additionally, the use of EM5 would help in the suppression of diseases and pests that would be recycled back into the next crop.
EM5 contains EM l - therefore it contributes to the beneficial effects that EM 1 increasing yield and quality of the crop. Thus, less expense is incurred on fertilizers and no cost would be expended on agricultural chemicals.
[/FONT]
 

Mad Lab

Member
EM5 is used as a foliar spray. When the pests take a bite of the plant matter and return to the nest/hive it infects the food source and makes it unedible to the rest of the colony eventually killing them.
 

Mad Lab

Member
In short, yes. It's not how the nutrients are delivered, it's the functioning immunity that's created in a living soil environment. Synthetics hinder microbe populations, and the chelation process skips that microbe herd all together and goes straight to the plant. Without a diverse microbe population we're entering war with a shortage of troops so-to-speak. Without "good guys" we're out numbered by the "bad guys", which is why more disease outbreak is seen under synthetic regimens where plants aren't given that functioning immunity. It's like when chemo patients kill their gut flora, many get very sick soon there after because their immune system is completely shot

Absolutely, soil should be nothing but organic, no need for chelates.

But hydroponics and aeroponics are also important to saving our planet. Organic lines exist but are not preferred or abundent. We need these method to save water and resources.

Soil is great for outdoors but shouldn't be implemented indoors. Wastes TOO MUCH water.

So what is your opinion Team on chelates and microbe options for the indoor grower trying to save the planet someday lol.

That's why I'm really interested in EM5 foliars etc for hydroponic use. My HPA aeropnics MUST be a sterile system but I would love to use EM5 to keep natures love in the mix: microbes!:woohoo:
 

Kygiacomo!!!

AppAlachiAn OutLaW
wouldnt actinovate microbes be the same as EM5 for disease control? i read the discription on it and actinovate does the same thing with alot less mixing only for disease's..for pests i use neem and karnaja oil
 

Mad Lab

Member
wouldnt actinovate microbes be the same as EM5 for disease control? i read the discription on it and actinovate does the same thing with alot less mixing only for disease's..for pests i use neem and karnaja oil

They may achieve the same goal but they are not the same thing.

Actinovate I believe is used as a fungicide but I've never heard of it being used soley as a pesticide.

I would assume breeding your own active microbes would be better than actinovate, but that's just my hypothesis.

I also use neem oil and a 1% coriander oil, 94% sulphonated canola oil solution and 5% triethanolamine solution for the wetting agent. Works everytime for prevention and infestation elimination.

But I'm looking at commercial production and greenhouse production organic pest maintenance and while the neem will be great for veg room and small plants, such a large grow will require different types of treatments to keep the harmfuls on their feet and not used to any one method. Neem treatments, AEM, EM5 and FTP's should be rotated throughout a week.
 

smurfin'herb

Registered Cannabis User
Veteran
In short, yes. It's not how the nutrients are delivered, it's the functioning immunity that's created in a living soil environment. Synthetics hinder microbe populations, and the chelation process skips that microbe herd all together and goes straight to the plant. Without a diverse microbe population we're entering war with a shortage of troops so-to-speak. Without "good guys" we're out numbered by the "bad guys", which is why more disease outbreak is seen under synthetic regimens where plants aren't given that functioning immunity. It's like when chemo patients kill their gut flora, many get very sick soon there after because their immune system is completely shot

Ive grown with synthetic ferts and microbes for 10+years. They rock out just fine in coir. You can easily tell by the structure of the rootmass. Some things that harm certain microbes are considered food to other species. The type of microbes that will thrive are all relative to the medium, ph, temp, food source, salinity ect...
I for one, do not believe the microbial population is hindered much overall by synthetic ferts.

Also there many other duties of microbes than to just "chelate" things. Individual strains are capable of several different tasks in a lot of cases. So dont think that because you are adding chelators that theres nothing else those microbes can do instead.
Humic and fulvic acid are natural chelators as well, and they are actually improving the microlife, not bypassing it.
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Ive grown with synthetic ferts and microbes for 10+years. They rock out just fine in coir. You can easily tell by the structure of the rootmass. Some things that harm certain microbes are considered food to other species. The type of microbes that will thrive are all relative to the medium, ph, temp, food source, salinity ect...
I for one, do not believe the microbial population is hindered much overall by synthetic ferts.

Also there many other duties of microbes than to just "chelate" things. Individual strains are capable of several different tasks in a lot of cases. So dont think that because you are adding chelators that theres nothing else those microbes can do instead.
Humic and fulvic acid are natural chelators as well, and they are actually improving the microlife, not bypassing it.

Do you have any scientific evidence of chemicals having a positive effect on microorganisms, or is that just an anecdotal observation?
 

smurfin'herb

Registered Cannabis User
Veteran
I never said chemicals have a positive effect on microorganisms. I did say however, that humic/fulvic have a beneficial effect on the population, and are NATURAL chelators.

I shouldnt have to explain how humic/fulvic acid benefit the life in the soil. Your name is team microbe, I would hope that you understand how this works. Its not overly complicated. There is plenty of information on the subject.

Coco/perlite+beneficials. No mold ever.
I would call this a positive effect....


Keep your plants healthy with a balanced diet, and you wont have to worry so much about bugs and fungus/mildew/mold. Get your brix levels up and I bet most of your problems go away.
 

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